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Featured The Doctrine of Eternal Torture in Hell

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Achilles6129, Sep 6, 2016.

  1. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    God is as big or bigger than the Cosmos, which
    has been evident since creation, so people
    cannot be excused for not having a Bible.
     
  2. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Thank you. I have been at CF for about 2 decades. One of the things I learned early on is that the hard core heterodox are almost impossible to reach. So my efforts are aimed at those who are unsure, wavering thinking about joining or leaving such a group and I have had some success here and on other forums.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
  3. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I suggest you find a new father, quickly!

    There is no such thing as eternal punishment or damnation! In fact only KJV uses the word "damnation".

    The words endless torment (adialeipton timorion), eternal imprisonment (aidios eirgmos) and eternal punishment (aidios kalasin) do not appear anywhere in the Greek New Testament, in conjunction. Neither, will you find the term aidios timorion or eternal torment. Therefore, whoever says that there is an eternal (aidios) time set for punishment (kalasin) or torment beyond this life is sadly mistaken. It's a limited duration of aionion(αἰώνιον - a period of time as in an age) kalasin (Κόλασιν - chastisement or correction) which is in view; but the day and hour that it begins and ends is unpredictable. If it were eternal, then the word Aidios would have been used. But not even Jesus used the word for eternal in conjunction with any kind of punishment or life for that matter.

    There are only two places in the New Testament where the word Aidios is used correctly, and they define His Eternal power and divine nature.
     
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  4. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    A couple of questions for you, Achilles6129>>>>>>>>

    1. Would it be unjust for God to be kind to all men in a future state?

    2. If all men justly deserve endless punishment, will not those who are saved, be saved unjustly?

    3. If God "will by no means clear the guilty," by what means can just punishment be evaded? (Ex. 34:7)

    4. As no man can measure endless punishment to his neighbor, will endless punishment be measured to him? (Luke 4:38)

    5. Would it be merciful in God to inflict endless punishment? -- that is, merciful to the sufferer?

    6. Can that be just which is not merciful?

    7. Do not cruelty and injustice go hand in hand?

    8. Can that be merciful which is not just?

    Questions requiring answers

    The questions were written by A. C. Thomas and appeared in a book by E. H. Lake, entitled "The Key to Truth".
     
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  5. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    There is no such thing as eternal torture. In the very end all sin and the sinful wicked will be destroyed by fire and God will make the earth anew.

    Revelation 21:5

    5And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then He said, “Write this down, for these words are faithful and true.”

    Romans 6:23

    23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus ourLord.

    The first death, we die our earthly death (all of us saved and unsaved) and go to the grave and remain there until the 2nd coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The first resurrection ... The graves are opened and the "saved dead" and the "saved living" are taken to heaven for one thousand years. The unsaved living are destroyed by the brightness of HIs coming .... the unsaved dead remain in the grave until the 2nd resurrection.

    Revelation 20:5

    5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand yearswere complete. This is the first resurrection.6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.…

    "Hell" ... is the grave. There is no consciousness in the grave

    Ecclesiastes 9:5

    5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, because the memory of them is forgotten.

    There is no eternal torture .... in the end the earth and everything in it/on it will be destroyed and consumed by fire, along with Satan and his minions. God will then make the earth new and establish His perfect kingdom on earth and the saved will forever more dwell with Him.

    John 3:16

    16“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    "shall not perish" (eternal death) .... "but have eternal life".

    If it is believed there is "eternal torture" .... that would still be "eternal life" .... a eternal life of torture .... not so .. this is buying into the devils original lie "you will not surely die" .... immortal soul .... no ... the Bible is clear ... there is only one immortal and that is God.

    1 Timothy 6:16

    16 He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen

    It's about eternal death (never to exist again) or eternal life with God .... period!
     
  6. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Eleos: Watch those "period" points! There is no such animal as "eternal death".

    Here is a new word for you>>>>>>>>

    "From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists and in Him the all ends..."

    He is the Source, the Guide & the Goal of the all.

    Ta pante= the all
     
  7. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Is it not in the very end after all is said and done about eternal life or eternal death?
     
  8. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Eleos: In the end it is whether the Glorious One has accomplished His Purpose! He has willed, yes willed, that all mankind should be saved & come into the knowledge of the truth. I am inclined to believe His Purpose shall be consummated in every last degree!
     
  9. Rodan6

    Rodan6 Member Supporter

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    God is the absolute of love and logic. Those who embrace these great truths should understand that there is no logical purpose in the eternal torment of souls. The craving for the existence of a place for eternal torment comes from the human longing for revenge. As we seek God, we are drawn to Him through our efforts to be like Him. In our modern age, we are called upon to let go of our primitive urges in this great quest. Anger, prejudice and thoughts of revenge all serve to impede our spiritual progress.
     
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  10. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    God has perfect Love and Mercy.

    1 John 4:8 [Full Chapter]
    The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

    God ALSO has perfect Justice and judgments.

    Galatians 6:7
    Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.

    He loves sinners. He hates sin.

    Romans 5:8
    But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died FOR us. (on our behalf)

    Malachi 2:16
    For I hate divorce,” says the Lord, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with wrong (sin),” says the Lord of hosts. “So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.”
     
  11. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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  12. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Dear Ron G.: The essence from which our God is=

    Love/Spirit/Light/Fire & Savior.

    From His essence flow perfect judgement and justice! I personally stand at complete rest knowing His "Hand" will administer exactly what is required to bring about change & transformation. That after all is what pure justice is based, not unending punishment leading to more and more and more and more!

    "From Him, through Him, for Him"
     
  13. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Precisely!

    "God IS [the] Saviour of all mankind, especially those who believe/trust in Him. Command this & teach this."

    NOTE

    1. God is Saviour of all mankind.

    2. He is Saviour "especially/malista" of those who trust in Him.

    3. Command this/ teach this.

    What this passage does not declare!

    Our God is the Saviour of some of mankind, and ONLY those who trust in Him/ who believe. Command this and teach this.
     
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  14. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    <R6>God is the absolute of love and logic. Those who embrace these great truths should understand that there is no logical purpose in the eternal torment of souls. The craving for the existence of a place for eternal torment comes from the human longing for revenge. As we seek God, we are drawn to Him through our efforts to be like Him. In our modern age, we are called upon to let go of our primitive urges in this great quest. Anger, prejudice and thoughts of revenge all serve to impede our spiritual progress.<end>
    A fine summary without one verse of scripture. This summary might be accurate if it did not ignore every verse which contradicts it. And before you respond with the usual automatonic objection please read my explanation of the validity of the Jewish beliefs.
    .....According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom.
    ….. I acknowledge there were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were other beliefs does not negate anything in this post.

    Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
    The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);
    Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT any supposed bias of Christian translators.
    (I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b).
    But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
    … heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).

    Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
    Encyclopedia Judaica:
    Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.

    During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; see *Moloch). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
    In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/gehinnom
    = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
    Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
    The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [follower of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written [Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
    Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
    When Jesus taught about,
    • “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:Matthew 25:41
    • "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
    • "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
    • "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
    • “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.Matthew 18:6
    • “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Matthew 7:23
    • “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. Matthew 26:24
    • “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
    These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned the existing Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a fate worse than death or nonexistence. A fate worse than death is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.
    Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
    31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
    Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as death, it would have meant something worse to them.
    …..Jesus knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment” to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which only reinforced their belief.
    .....I would be most interested in seeing any verses where God or Jesus, themselves, are speaking which states unequivocally that all mankind will be saved, no matter what. I don't mean the usual patchwork of proof texts which, when strung together, irrespective of their context, are interpreted as suggesting UR.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  15. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What relevance do such extrabiblical Jewish beliefs have? Jesus said to beware of the teaching of the Pharisees, who BTW believed in endless punishment.

    "Jesus warned His disciples to “watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees,” which was their false teaching (Matt. 16:6,12)."

    "Not giving heed to Jewish myths, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." (Titus 1:14).
    Jesus said re the Pharisees: "...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." (Mt.15:8-9)

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim.3:16)

    Jesus, speaking to Pharisees, said:

    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


    Scripture says:

    "Not giving heed to Jewish myths, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth."
    (Titus 1:14).

    Jesus said re the Pharisees: "...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." (Mt.15:8-9)

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim.3:16)



    Unproven & irrelevant. Whether true or not. Scripture says:

    "Jesus warned His disciples to “watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees,” which was their false teaching (Matt. 16:6,12)."

    "Not giving heed to Jewish myths, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." (Titus 1:14). Jesus said re the Pharisees: "...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." (Mt.15:8-9)

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim.3:16)

    Jesus, speaking to Pharisees, said:

    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.



    2 Timothy 4:4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

    Such as the fable or myth of endless torments of the Dark & Middle ages, Inquisitions, Crusades, burning of "heretics", etc.

    In contrast to the fables & myths of endless torments, Paul says again to Timothy:

    1Tim.4:9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    1Tim.2 1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
     
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  16. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Those are deceptive erroneous translations:

    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/augustines-ignorance-error-re-matthew-25-46.8041938/

    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/have-you-been-decieved-by-your-bible-translation.8039822/

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...in-duration-with-aionion-in-mt-25-46.8069208/


    Mark 9 43-49 addressed here:

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...sition-to-endless-hell.8042016/#post-72141156


    Addressed at the following url. Jesus didn't use the best words & expressions to describe endlessness in regards to punishment, because He didn't believe in endless punishment:

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-a-universalism.8070242/page-14#post-72882151


    Addressed here:

    Matthew 7:21-23:
    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...torture-in-fire.8041369/page-35#post-72162632

    Addressed here:

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...sition-to-endless-hell.8042016/#post-72141042


    Nope. That's pure assumption. And wrong.


    A fate compared to death is nothing. Death is merely the instant one passes from this life to the next. And the word "nonexistence" is nowhere used in the Old or New Testaments. The urls above address those Matthew passages in detail.


    That passages opposes your theories:

    10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    Stoning to death is not a very sore or longlasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

    Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed the wicked would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

    Heb.1:2a in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all

    Heb.1:3b When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

    Heb.2:2b every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty

    Heb.2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
    7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

    8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put
    under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

    9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by
    the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render
    powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

    15 And might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.

    He didn't teach "eternal punishment". Neither did He use the language you quoted above from some Jews, e.g. Pharisees. Instead He warned His disciples re the false teachings of the Pharisees & their "traditions of men" that oppose the Word of God. He said not to give heed to Jewish fables & myths. That includes horror tales like what you've quoted above from Judaism, which opposes Biblical Christianity.
     
  17. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But He did:

    http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html

    If Jesus wished to express endless punishment, then He would have used expressions such as "endless", "no end" & "never be saved" as per:

    http://www.city-data.com/forum/chri...scripture-expresses-endless-duration-not.html

    And concerning the blind Pharisees, who believed in endless punishments:

    12Then the disciples having approached, said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees, having heard this saying, were offended?”

    13 And answering He said, “Every plant that My Heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up.14 Leave them! They are blind guides of the blind.d And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”



    Who are you replying to?

    And who cares what - anti Christ - Jews who rejected the Savior of all thought about the Scriptures? What makes you think they could correctly interpret the Scriptures any more than they could correctly identify the Messiah they crucified?

    Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God."

    http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html
     
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  18. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Your "new word" was blank.

    In the end, the saved receive eternal life ..... the opposite of that would be eternal death .... or .... mortality verses immortality ... being with the Lord for eternity or not being with the Lord for eternity, whatever "words" you would like to use.

    Point is ... or was ..... the unsaved are not tortured for eternity. They will not receive immortality ..... they will cease to exist for eternity.

    John 3:16

    16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    "shall not perish" in relation to eternal life.

    Call it what you want. I call it eternal death .... or eternal life. One lives with the Lord .... or one ceases to exist ..... both are eternal (unending) meaning forever
     
  19. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Perish for how long & in what way? The same Greek word for "perish" is used of the prodigal son who was "lost" but later found. He was ruined, not annihilated, yet still quite able to be saved by Love Omnipotent.

    More literal versions say:

    16 For thus God loves the world, so that He gives His only-begotten Son, that everyone who is believing in Him should not be perishing, but may be having life eonian. (CLV)

    16 for God did so love the world, that His Son—the only begotten—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. (YLT)

    16 For God, so loved, the world, that, his Only Begotten Son, he gave,—that, whosoever believeth on him, might not perish, but have life age-abiding. (Ro)

    16 Thus for loved the God the world, so that the son of himself the only-begotten he gave, that every one who believing into him, not may be destroyed, but may have life age-lasting. (Diaglott)

    Not everyone will get EONIAN life, which pro Endless Hell club, anti universalist, versions mistranslate as "eternal life". Those who believe before they die get EONIAN life. They will live & reign with Christ for the 1000 years of the millennial EON (Rev.20). Unbelievers will not. They get saved later since God becomes "all in ALL" (1 Cor.15:22-28). For Jesus is the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world (Jn.1:29), "the Saviour of the world" (John 4:42), Who will draw all to Himself (John 12:32).

    John 3:16 says unbelievers "perish", not that they perish endlessly. If Jesus had wanted to say "perish endlessly" there was a Greek word for "endless" He could have used (aperantos, 1 Tim.1:4). He could have also used the words "no end" (Lk.1:33) of perishing. Clearly endless punishment is not the teaching of the Word of God.

    If Jesus wished to express endless punishment, then He would have used expressions such as "endless", "no end" & "never be saved" as per:

    http://www.city-data.com/forum/chri...scripture-expresses-endless-duration-not.html

    Jesus didn't use the best words & expressions to describe endlessness in regards to punishment, because He didn't believe in endless punishment.

    Examples of aionios as a finite duration in Koine Greek:

    http://www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/2931562-does-aionios-always-mean-eternal-ancient.html

    "But there are those who find this an intolerable state of affairs, sometimes because of an earnest if misguided devotion to what they believe Scripture or tradition demands, sometimes because the idea of the eternal torment of the derelict appeals to some unpleasantly obvious emotional pathologies on their parts." https://www.firstthings.com/article/2015/10/saint-origen

    http://www.tentmaker.org/tracts/Universalist.html
    http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html
     
  20. Lost4words

    Lost4words In reality, an old dog! Supporter

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    The Bible is a complex Holy Book. Everyone seems to know it's meaning. Everyone has their own view, opinion or interpretation of scripture. This is where i believe, that the true interpretation of scripture comes from the Holy Church started by Jesus when He pointed to Peter as being the Rock.

    As for hell. Only we choose hell. God does not send us there. We send ourselves there.

    Is it eternal? I will try and let you all know when I go there as i am so unworthy of heaven.
     
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