• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The Conjunction of Opposites

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
35,839
4,511
On the bus to Heaven
✟104,709.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
So those who endure "calamity" deserve it?
Let’s explore your fallacy. Isaiah 45 relates to showing Israel that God was the only God. The calamity throughout the OT teaches this to Israel.
Like the child dying of diptheria?
What caused the diphtheria? This disease is practically iradicated in developed countries but not so much in developing countries with corrupt governments and victimized citizens. Claiming that God causes the diphtheria by which the child died is without foundation. The child is the victim if their circumstance not of God.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,511
7,601
North Carolina
✟349,318.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
What do you make of the hard passages quoted above which indicate that God is responsible for evil, or at least, calamity?
No problem. . .he's God, we're not.

All is not about evil. . .
Justice demands that God's attributes be glorified.
Evil is part of God's plan to show forth the glory of both his justice and his mercy, in the glory of the Son.

There is no Holy Spirit and sovereign regeneration into the kingdom of God in your equation (Jn 3:3-8). . .
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,511
7,601
North Carolina
✟349,318.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Anyway I honor your vision of creation and new creation. It speaks to the longing for order, rest, and new life.

But I must warn you: the individual soul does not permit the destruction of opposites.

Darkness cannot be burned away.

If you seek to destroy it, you will project it onto your neighbor, and then fight him as though he were evil incarnate.
Sez who?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,511
7,601
North Carolina
✟349,318.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
We were not originally “sinners by nature,” but good, very good, and are now unfinished by nature.
And I cannot agree that man is only a sinner, totally depraved.
He is divided — part light, part darkness — and his task is not to erase one half but to become conscious of both.
He is not part light. . .his light is partial, depriving him of real sight, introducing a blindness.
To say ‘none is good’ is true, for no man is whole without transforming and integrating his dark side.
But neither is he only evil.
He is incomplete.
The person of Christ calls him to become whole.
That is salvation: not the covering over of man’s nature with Christ’s perfection, but the awakening of Christ in the depths of the soul.
Jesus, the Son of God who came down from heaven (Jn 3:13) says otherwise. . .one is not born with Christ in the depths of the soul.

One must be reborn of the Holy Spirit and believe in Jesus and his atoning work for the remission of their condemnation in order to have any Christ-life anywhere in them. There is no "Christ in the depth of the soul" of the unbeliever in Jesus Christ. One must be born again spiritually to have any actual connection to Christ.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,511
7,601
North Carolina
✟349,318.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
So those who endure "calamity" deserve it?

Like the child dying of diptheria?
Do the baby rattlesnakes in the backyard where my children play deserve to die?
 
Upvote 0

Colo Millz

Active Member
Aug 30, 2025
46
4
55
NYC
✟758.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Evil is part of God's plan to show forth the glory of both his justice and his mercy, in the glory of the Son.

You're telling me that a child dying of leukemia shows forth God's glory.

Would you actually use those words to the parents of that child?
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,511
7,601
North Carolina
✟349,318.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
We were not originally “sinners by nature,” but good, very good, and are now unfinished by nature.

And I cannot agree that man is only a sinner, totally depraved.
So it's Jesus you disagree with:

"He who sins is a slave to sin." (Jn 8:34)

Who does not sin?
He is divided — part light, part darkness — and his task is not to erase one half but to become conscious of both.

To say ‘none is good’ is true, for no man is whole without transforming and integrating his dark side.

But neither is he only evil.

He is incomplete.

The person of Christ calls him to become whole.

That is salvation: not the covering over of man’s nature with Christ’s perfection, but the awakening of Christ in the depths of the soul.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,511
7,601
North Carolina
✟349,318.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You're telling me that a child dying of leukemia shows forth God's glory.

Would you actually use those words to the parents of that child?
Are you telling me God is unjust, that he is responsible for the fall of Adam which brought death into the world?

I wouldn't have to tell it to believers. . .and unbelievers wouldn't believe anything, one way or the other, about it.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Colo Millz

Active Member
Aug 30, 2025
46
4
55
NYC
✟758.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
In the New York Times this morning, on this the last day I have set aside for the writing of this book, there appeared a report from Sri Lanka recounting, in part, the story of a large man of enormous physical strength who was unable to prevent four of his five children from perishing in the tsunami, and who — as he recited the names of his lost children to the reporter, in descending order of age, ending with the name of his four-year-old son — was utterly overwhelmed by his own weeping. Only a moral cretin at that moment would have attempted to soothe his anguish by assuring him that his children had died as a result of God’s eternal, inscrutable, and righteous counsels, and that in fact their deaths had mysteriously served God’s purposes in history, and that all of this was completely necessary for God to accomplish his ultimate design in having created this world. Most of us would have the good sense to be ashamed to speak such words; we would recognize that they would offer no more credible comfort than the vaporings of the most idiotically complacent theodicy, and we would detest ourselves for giving voice to odious banalities and blasphemous flippancies.

And this should tell us something. For if we would think it shamefully foolish and cruel to say such things in the moment when another’s sorrow is most real and irresistibly painful, then we ought never to say them; because what would still our tongues would be the knowledge (which we would possess at the time, though we might forget it later) that such sentiments would amount not only to an indiscretion or words spoken out of season, but to a vile stupidity and a lie told principally for our own comfort, by which we would try to excuse ourselves for believing in an omnipotent and benevolent God.


Hart, The Doors of the Sea
 
Upvote 0

Colo Millz

Active Member
Aug 30, 2025
46
4
55
NYC
✟758.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Evil is part of God's plan to show forth the glory of both his justice and his mercy, in the glory of the Son.

It is a strange thing indeed to seek peace in a universe rendered morally intelligible at the cost of a God rendered morally loathsome.
 
Upvote 0

Thea2

New Member
Aug 23, 2025
4
6
The Netherlands
✟1,600.00
Country
Netherlands
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
“The opposites always balance one another—good and evil, beauty and ugliness, love and hate, spirit and matter. Heaven and hell are born together. The dissolution of opposites is the precondition of the highest consciousness.”

That’s Daoism

… Jung …

Jung was familiar with and heavily influenced by Chinese Daoism.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,511
7,601
North Carolina
✟349,318.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You're telling me that all Christians, everywhere, agree with your perspective that a child dying of leukemia shows forth God's glory?
Relevance?

Do you know whether or not the child would be a reprobate sentenced to condemnation if it lived?
 
Upvote 0

Colo Millz

Active Member
Aug 30, 2025
46
4
55
NYC
✟758.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
That’s Daoism



Jung was familiar with and heavily influenced by Chinese Daoism.
Just as Aquinas was familiar with and heavily influenced by Aristotle.

So what?

I suppose there are those who would object just as strenuously to Aquinas today as they would to Jung for precisely the same reason.
 
Upvote 0