The Doctrine of Eternal Torture in Hell

[mmksparbud]

Agreed. We all have eternal life with only difference being where. Heaven for the saved and hell for the lost.

I asked for a verse that states this--not for your opinion!!

1Jn_1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1Jn_2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1Jn_3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn_5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Joh_6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh_10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh_12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Joh_17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh_17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Rom_2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Ti_6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1Ti_6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Tit_1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Tit_3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Mat_19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Mar_10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mar_10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Luk_10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk_18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Joh_3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh_4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
Joh_5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Where are the verses that state the lost get eternal life??

 

[mmksparbud]

Where are these adds coming from?? I noticed them appearing on other postings from other people. I did put that in there!!

 

[Major1]

While Scripture is our final Word of authority and is extremely important, Scripture can also mean different things to different people. But it can become a problem when somebody takes a text out of the Bible by reading it the wrong way. For example: A parent can wrongfully abuse their child by reading "Spare the rod and spoil the child." Usually, when I debate with other Christians on heated topics, they usually think with their head and not with their heart (When they read God's Word).

The real test is the fruit. The morality or goodness behind your belief.
I want you to demonstrate for me in how ECT is moral and good? How is burning people for all eternity who commit a finite amount of sin as being a type of thing that is fair, just, loving, and good? Please use a real world example to help illustrate this. Also, please do not allegorize your real world example, too. For I am appealing to your moral compass. The question is: Is it still working at it's full capacity?



...

To be brutally honest with Jason, I do not think any explinations are going to help you in any way on this subject.

You see, you have dug in and taken a position and now for you to change you believe that it would make you look weak and confused and damage your pride. I can re-post Bible verse after Bible verse and it is not going to matter to you.

I know that because you are wanting someone to give you answers that have been given over and over to you and I have not been here long enough to read all of them but long enough to see that is the case.

Again, I know I have stated this 3 times. People do not go to hell for "finite sins". People do not go to hell for murder or lieing or stealing. Every single soul in hell is there because of UNBELIEF!!!!!

However. I will answer your question which when all is said and done is simply...............
"My god would never send anyone to hell"!

No, I am not putting words into your mouth. But when we put all the stuff you just said together that is what it comes out to be...IMO.

Now THINK Jason. Do you realize that you are breaking the Second of the Ten Commandments by saying that? You have made a god to suit yourself. Your god would never send anyone to Hell, because he couldn't, that isn't moral or logical or loving.

You have made a god you feel comfortable with. I did the same for many years before I really began to read the Bible and pray over hard questions. From your own words Jason You believe that because the god you have conceived in your mind has a low standard of morality.

Fire burns. Gravity kills. Water drowns. And you can say, "God is love, God is love, God is love," until you're blue in the face. But water will still drown you, fire will burn you, and gravity will kill you, and the sin of UNBELIEF will damn you no matter how much you say about a loving God.

The truth then is that God just set up life that way. He set up the rules. He set up the laws by which we are to live. And if we break those laws, they break us, and we pay the consequences.

 

[Der Alte]

Keyword word here is "rational." When we think rationally about things it is not wrong. God wants us to think rationally when it comes to understanding His Word. For God is not the author of confusion.
...

Wrong! Lexical fallacy, root fallacy. Do not twist what I say. If I had wanted to say "rational" that is what I would have said. What I said was "rationalizations- to think about or describe something (such as bad behavior) in a way that explains it and makes it seem proper, more attractive, etc."

 

[Major1]

Wrong! Lexical fallacy, root fallacy. Do not twist what I say. If I had wanted to say "rational" that is what I would have said. What I said was "rationalizations- to think about or describe something (such as bad behavior) in a way that explains it and makes it seem proper, more attractive, etc."

Agreed. You are sharp my brother!!!

 

[Major1]

I asked for a verse that states this--not for your opinion!!

1Jn_1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1Jn_2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1Jn_3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn_5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Joh_6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh_10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh_12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Joh_17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh_17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Rom_2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Ti_6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1Ti_6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Tit_1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Tit_3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Mat_19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Mar_10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mar_10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Luk_10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk_18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Joh_3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh_4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
Joh_5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Where are the verses that state the lost get eternal life??

1 Corth. 15:53......
"For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality."

Rev 14:10-11 .......
"he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Rev 20:10 ...........
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Rev 20:15..........
" And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Mt 25:46 ...........
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

2 Thess 1:9 .........
"these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord

Mt 25:41............
"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

Jude 13 ..........
"for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever"

 

[Major1]

Growing up Methodist the teaching was that your rejection of God will be your personal Hell. Imagine going to a Rock concert but not liking loud music. If you reject God he will be that loud music to you.

While I understand your thinking, it takes away from the literal Word of God which teaches us that hell is a real, literal place.

 

[mmksparbud]

1 Corth. 15:53......
"For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality."

Rev 14:10-11 .......
"he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Rev 20:10 ...........
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Rev 20:15..........
" And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Mt 25:46 ...........
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

2 Thess 1:9 .........
"these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord

Mt 25:41............
"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

Jude 13 ..........
"for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever"

"For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality."
Yes---we are mortal, and Jesus gives immortality to the saved. This is to the saved not to the lost.

Np--that has been discussed several times--0where is the verse that says eternal life is given to the lost---I posted all those verses that says eternal life is for the saved.
1Jn_3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
We have eternal life in us as a gift from God which will be given us at the resurrection, those who are alive at that time will be changed in a twinkling of an eye.
Mt 25:46 ...........
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Yes, eternal life---to the saved----everlasting punishment--gone over that to--only until the earth is made new. The heavens and the earth are remade and there is no more pain or suffering after that.
2 Thess 1:9 .........
"these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord

Yes---destroyed forever!

Mt 25:41............
"Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"

Gone over---Sodom and Gomorrah are not still burning---

Jude 13 ..........
"for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever"

Yes---nothingness for the lost---zero--zip, zilch--eternal nothingness, eternal death, eternal nonlife---noever anything that says eternal life is given to the lost.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To be brutally honest with Jason, I do not think any explinations are going to help you in any way on this subject.

You see, you have dug in and taken a position and now for you to change you believe that it would make you look weak and confused and damage your pride. I can re-post Bible verse after Bible verse and it is not going to matter to you.

I know that because you are wanting someone to give you answers that have been given over and over to you and I have not been here long enough to read all of them but long enough to see that is the case.

Again, I know I have stated this 3 times. People do not go to hell for "finite sins". People do not go to hell for murder or lieing or stealing. Every single soul in hell is there because of UNBELIEF!!!!!

However. I will answer your question which when all is said and done is simply...............
"My god would never send anyone to hell"!

No, I am not putting words into your mouth. But when we put all the stuff you just said together that is what it comes out to be...IMO.

Now THINK Jason. Do you realize that you are breaking the Second of the Ten Commandments by saying that? You have made a god to suit yourself. Your god would never send anyone to Hell, because he couldn't, that isn't moral or logical or loving.

You have made a god you feel comfortable with. I did the same for many years before I really began to read the Bible and pray over hard questions. From your own words Jason You believe that because the god you have conceived in your mind has a low standard of morality.

Fire burns. Gravity kills. Water drowns. And you can say, "God is love, God is love, God is love," until you're blue in the face. But water will still drown you, fire will burn you, and gravity will kill you, and the sin of UNBELIEF will damn you no matter how much you say about a loving God.

The truth then is that God just set up life that way. He set up the rules. He set up the laws by which we are to live. And if we break those laws, they break us, and we pay the consequences.

First, you still didn't address the verses I brought forth from before.

Second, you appear to be getting emotional with your words by resulting to insults or personal attacks towards me.
This does not bode well for your position.

Three, while it is true that unbelief in Jesus is the reason why God is reproving the world of their sin within John 16:8-9, Scripture also says that God will repay every man according to what he has done, too.

For it is written...

"God "will repay each person according to what they have done." (Romans 2:6 NIV).

"The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done." (Revelation 20:13 NIV).

"Also unto you, O Lord, belongs mercy: for you render to every man according to his work." (Psalms 62:12).

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works" (Matthew 16:27).

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked [He will not allow Himself to be ridiculed, nor treated with contempt nor allow His precepts to be scornfully set aside]; for whatever a man sows, this and this only is what he will reap. For the one who sows to his flesh [his sinful capacity, his worldliness, his disgraceful impulses] will reap from the flesh ruin and destruction, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life." (Galatians 6:7-8 AMP).​

...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Wrong! Lexical fallacy, root fallacy. Do not twist what I say. If I had wanted to say "rational" that is what I would have said. What I said was "rationalizations- to think about or describe something (such as bad behavior) in a way that explains it and makes it seem proper, more attractive, etc."

Please do not use bold type and say people are "wrong" and use words like "fallacy." It makes it appear like you are yelling and or that you are angry (Whether that is your emotional state during writing or not). Also, lets stick with Scripture please, too.

In any event, may God's love shine upon you.


...

 

[aiki]

Nothing in Matthew 25:46 suggests that the wicked are roasting alive in hell-fire. Everlasting life is contrasted with everlasting death or destruction or annihiation. Just as day is contrasted with night. It would not make any sense to contrast everlasting life with everlasting life.

Matthew 25:46 employs a parallelism. Rather than presenting a contrast as you suggest, the verse makes everlasting punishment (not death or destruction) and eternal life parallel to one another. Essentially, the verse is saying that the forever nature of eternal life is exactly like the forever nature of everlasting punishment (or vice versa). Suggesting that the punishment ends, however, as is required by annihilationism, does violence to the parallel and renders the verse meaningless. When one is annihilated, one can no longer be punished. Punishment requires consciousness; it entails awareness. To say, then, that the everlasting punishment of Matthew 25:46 only lasts until one is annihilated denies the plain meaning of the text emphasized by the parallel.

Selah.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Matthew 25:46 employs a parallelism. Rather than presenting a contrast as you suggest, the verse makes everlasting punishment (not death or destruction) and eternal life parallel to one another. Essentially, the verse is saying that the forever nature of eternal life is exactly like the forever nature of everlasting punishment (or vice versa). Suggesting that the punishment ends, however, as is required by annihilationism, does violence to the parallel and renders the verse meaningless. When one is annihilated, one can no longer be punished. Punishment requires consciousness; it entails awareness. To say, then, that the everlasting punishment of Matthew 25:46 only lasts until one is annihilated denies the plain meaning of the text emphasized by the parallel.

Selah.

In Matthew 25:46:

Everlasting is the parallel (which speak of the eternal consequences).
Both life and death (destruction, i.e. the punishment) have eternal consequences or effects.
But life and death (punishment) is the contrast.

So the verse is one part parallel and one part contrast.
Now, the "everlasting punishment" is said to be "everlasting destruction" in 2 Thessalonians 1:9, which is death.

So the contrast is life (reward) and death (punishment).
And everlasting is the parallel.

Anyways, if ECT was true, the verse would say,

"And these shall go away into everlasting life to be tortured in flames: but the righteous into life eternal to be in peaceful bliss."
(Matthew 25:46 ECT Influenced Translation).
​

But the verse doesn't really say that, though. In fact, no verse in Scripture says that the wicked have eternal life or immortality. But assumptions are made whereby it turns God into being some kind of non-stop angry kind of God who is beyond any kind of fair justice. But what about the loving God who is long suffering and not willing that any should PERISH? What about the God who so loved the world?​

...

 

[Hillsage]

My dear friend. You do have a sad testimony. And it is obvious you have done little to none in Bible study.

My testimony is written in my profile for public display. And as far as your judgment concerning how much bible study I've done???? Let me just say that your discernment hasn't impressed me so far anyway. But you're still the new guy here.

The truth is that I do not have a belief. I have an understanding of what the Lord Jesus actually did say on hell and being the old country boy that I am, I am just dumb enough to believe Him. It is actually just that simple!!!!

That sounds like you're half way there then. Since I have both 'a belief' as well as 'understanding' to go along with my belief.

It seems though that you are smarter than God by your posting. How sad for you.

Assurance is often confused with arrogance, but I do feel smarter for a number of truths that I believe God has led me to in my life. But especially so concerning the carnal minded doctrines once held dear because of fear, ignorance...or sometimes both. But most of all is this one where God's pregame plan was so dumb He ends up losing, to the devil he created in His omniscience, almost all those whom He loves and whom Jesus died for. A loss, from the tenor of your ECT posts, which really doesn't bother you as much as your FSU loss last week.

What did Jesus actually say????/

Depends upon your translation, and even then we're not sure. Since Jesus never spoke Latin or Greek, and there are no original authographs. A fate which leaves us most dependent upon those who authored the hundreds of NT translations that exist out there.

Luke 16:24.........
"And he cried out sand said, father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and COOL MY TONGUE, for I AM TORMENTED IN THIS FLAME".

This verse is a good example of that transnational tweaking, which leads the indoctrinated. Since the Greek word ODUNAO in this verse (and next) is only in the NT 4 times, why don't we let scripture reveal how it's used in its two other contexts.

Luke 2:48 And, having seen him, they were amazed, and his mother said unto him, 'Child, why didst thou thus to us? lo, thy father and I, sorrowing/ODUNAO, were seeking thee.'

Gee, here's Joseph and Mary TORMENTED as they were seeking Jesus. Sounds like the testimony of a lot of brethren I've known over the decades. Only real difference is, they were the ones lost and the shepherd Jesus just hadn't found them yet. What was that definition of sin again???? My shepherd is going to win, and not fall short in the gospel plan of the ages.

Acts 20:38 sorrowing/ODUNAO most of all for the word that he had said - that they are about no more to see his face; and they were accompanying him to the ship.

And here it is for the last time. Used to describe the TORMENTED disciples who weren't going to see Paul again. Sounds like the FLAME you want to eternally ascribe to most of the human creation isn't quite as hot as you and the ECT crowd imagine....Thank God.

 

[razzelflabben]

We have to understand that God is a God of order and logic. If God was not orderly in the way He does things, then God would be the author of confusion. But this is not the case. God does things that makes sense whereby we can explain them. Usually when something is within a series of numbers, they are related to one another in some way. Take for example: There are two covenants. The first is related to the second in the fact that the second is a fulfillment of the first covenant. If the 2nd Covenant was totally unlike the 1st Covenant in every respect and way, it wouldn't make sense to call it the second Covenant (unless the first one was a mistake or some kind of experiment to get it right a second time). But God doesn't make mistakes. Both Covenants are related to each other.

This is why we can say the second death is related to the first death. If something was unlike the first death and it was completely new and different, then it would not be called the second death. It would have a new name. Comparisons are made because they are related. If I count a sequence of ducks,

Duck #1
Duck #2
Duck #3

They are all ducks. They are related to each other.
But if there was a robot duck. Well, I would not list in that group.
For it is not really a duck. It's a robot. The same is true if you say the second death is not really like the death of the first one. The same is also true if you ignore how those who kill the body is a contrast to Jesus killing the soul, too. Jesus is really killing the soul just a man can kill the body. That's the comparison or contrast or parallel.


...

Now, I have already talked about this and you ignored me, let's try again. Comparisons are great, in fact, you understand death because you compare and contrast it to life, right? Right! But what about the second or eternal life is comparable to life in the flesh? Is eternal life really fragile? Is it really able to stop being eternal? How does scripture tell us that we know we have eternal life? BY our relationship with Christ, right? Right! So, if life in the flesh is not exactly like life in Christ, then reason and logic would say that when we compare spiritual or eternal or second death to death in the flesh we must use the same differences in that comparison and contrast. Right? Right! See, this is where your "logic" falls apart. You want to compare and contrast physical death to spiritual death but assume that physical life and spiritual life are vastly different. That is an illogical conclusion for a philosophical and biblical perspective. In fact, the only place it really works is in your own mind.

 

[razzelflabben]

I do wish you'd have said 'you' were "tormented" along with being "destroyed" in that loss. If you had, I'd be able to say Hell must not be such a bad after all. Just a place where one's butt gets kicked....I'm sorry....where one is "smote in the hinderparts" by God until His will be accomplished in victory, as He intended through his commission to Jesus.

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him".

And here I was always taught that the definition of sin was 'falling short of the mark'. Guess Jesus got a bye on that definition, because almost all of God's loved ones in the world are headed for ETERNAL HELL according to your belief. And, just as Jesus got a bye on sin's definition, He also apparently got a bye on orthodoxies judgment for the unsaved, that being ETERNAL TORTURE IN HELL....I say 'that' because 'I personally' don't believe Jesus is paying 'that price' in my place, THANK GOD. Nor do I believe He is paying that price for anyone else, for that matter. THANK GOD again.

wow...so you do not believe that Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb? Trying to think where to start on that one...why then did Jesus come to earth and suffer and die and was resurrected in your opinion?

 

[razzelflabben]

I am still waiting for the verse that says eternal life is given to the lost. Where does it say--everyone gets eternal life, the only thing that is different is the environment?

wow, how many times have you been told it is eternal life and eternal death and you still demand to know where the lost get eternal life...they don't they get eternal death aka separation from God in this discussion in the lake of fire.

But that brings us to the issue of man having a body, soul, and spirit and none of the passages that show us that are you willing to provide an alternative reading for, so I guess it is time to ignore you unless of course you can present a rebuttal to the passages. Oh, and just to preempt the usual, saying they weren't presented is not a rebuttal.

 

[razzelflabben]

In Matthew 25:46:

Everlasting is the parallel (which speak of the eternal consequences).
Both life and death (destruction, i.e. the punishment) have eternal consequences or effects.
But life and death (punishment) is the contrast.

So the verse is one part parallel and one part contrast.
Now, the "everlasting punishment" is said to be "everlasting destruction" in 2 Thessalonians 1:9, which is death.

So the contrast is life (reward) and death (punishment).
And everlasting is the parallel.

Anyways, if ECT was true, the verse would say,

"And these shall go away into everlasting life to be tortured in flames: but the righteous into life eternal to be in peaceful bliss."
(Matthew 25:46 ECT Influenced Translation).
​

But the verse doesn't really say that, though. In fact, no verse in Scripture says that the wicked have eternal life or immortality. But assumptions are made whereby it turns God into being some kind of non-stop angry kind of God who is beyond any kind of fair justice. But what about the loving God who is long suffering and not willing that any should PERISH? What about the God who so loved the world?​

...

you also have been repeatedly asked to show an alternate meaning to the passages that say man is body, soul, and spirit and you refused as well. Without some alternate meaning to explore, you simply have no case at all.

 

[mmksparbud]

wow, how many times have you been told it is eternal life and eternal death and you still demand to know where the lost get eternal life...they don't they get eternal death aka separation from God in this discussion in the lake of fire.

But that brings us to the issue of man having a body, soul, and spirit and none of the passages that show us that are you willing to provide an alternative reading for, so I guess it is time to ignore you unless of course you can present a rebuttal to the passages. Oh, and just to preempt the usual, saying they weren't presented is not a rebuttal.

Finnally!! You get it!! It is eternal life and eternal death----life, death. Great!

 

[razzelflabben]

I asked for a verse that states this--not for your opinion!!

1Jn_1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1Jn_2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1Jn_3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
1Jn_5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Joh_6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh_10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh_12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
Joh_17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh_17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Rom_2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1Ti_6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1Ti_6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Tit_1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Tit_3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Mat_19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Mar_10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mar_10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Luk_10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk_18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Joh_3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh_4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together.
Joh_5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Where are the verses that state the lost get eternal life??

you still refuse to even acknowledge what you have been told about this...

 

[razzelflabben]

Please do not use bold type and say people are "wrong" and use words like "fallacy." It makes it appear like you are yelling and or that you are angry (Whether that is your emotional state during writing or not). Also, lets stick with Scripture please, too.

In any event, may God's love shine upon you.


...

now hold on a moment...this poster has posted tons of scripture and has been reprimanded for being wordy and now this...instead of resorting to the personally attacks that you accuse others of, how about addressing the points this poster has made...I would love to see you offer a rebuttal of this posters points rather than simply dismiss it with non sense like this post.