The Demise of Evolution

Status
Not open for further replies.

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,981
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟982,622.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
So you mean that, in reality, you made unwarranted extrapolations to make facts fit into your Bronze Age tales.


So it is tall tale on top of tall tale with you.

Troll it is.

From studying scientific descriptions it appears to me that everything was specially designed and created. You may own your conclusions but you don't own the evidence.
 
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,981
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟982,622.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Cite these studies or shut up.

I meant that the studies reveal to me, special creation. They may reveal something different to you.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: SLP
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,981
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟982,622.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
How do you suggest science does that?

Possibly a cost/benefit study. The bible says that it's "better" to do certain things a certain way. That shouldn't be too hard prove or disprove.
 
Upvote 0

roman2819

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 22, 2012
835
212
Singapore
✟208,448.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No, but it is the best fit when it comes to evolution. For examples, why are dolphins air breathers? They have a very similar role as sharks, being fast aquatic predators that prey on fish, and evolution has certainly driven them to look very similar. But a dolphin's DNA shows that it is more closely related to an elephant than it is to a shark. Why would this be the case?
I think the argument that the same thing found in ten different species is proof of evolution is a bit weak. The argument would be stronger if the example was more specific. For example, if we take the forelegs of certain animals, say bats, horses, whales, humans, mice and elephants, we can see similarities in the way the bones are arranged that indicate that they share a common ancestor. This ancestor then divided up into groups that evolved the same bone structure to carry out different roles. The bones may have changed shape, but the basic arrangement is still the same. This is evidence of evolution, because it is unlikely that random chance would have resulted in such similar arrangements, and a designer would not have modified the same base to work for such different roles, he could have designed different structures perfectly suited to their intended role.

Evolution is a very broad subject and has many parts, so it's not possible to give a complete overview of the entire topic in a few sentences. But the basics of evolution are as follows:

Individuals in a population are mostly similar to each other, but they have slight changes between them. For example, all zebras are basically horse shaped and have black and white stripes, but some may have greater stamina than others, some may have poorer eyesight, etc. All the different characteristics of an individual are controlled by the genes in their DNA.

When two individuals reproduce, the DNA of their offspring is made up of a combination of the DNA from the parents, so the offspring tends to have characteristics from both of them. Also, so small changes can also happen due to errors as the DNA is copied as the offspring's cells divide. This means that the offspring can have different combinations of characteristics from the parents, as well as some slight changes that came from small mutations. This will gives the offspring different traits than those of its parents.

If the different traits are beneficial and help the offspring survive longer (say, better hearing, or stronger muscles), then the offspring is likely to have more offspring of its own. And when it does have offspring, those new offspring are likely to get the genes for these beneficial characteristics from its parent who had them.

On the other hand, if the traits are harmful (say more susceptible to disease, of more brittle bones), then the animal is likely to die before it can produce babies. Thus, the genes that cause the harmful traits are likely to be weeded out because any animal that has them is less likely to reproduce.

So, over many generations, the genes that bring about beneficial traits are likely to spread, and the genes that cause detrimental traits are likely to die out and no be passed on. This results in the population of animals gradually getting the traits that leave them well able to deal with the pressures they face in their lives, and they thus become better evolved for their environment. This process is called "Natural Selection", because nature is selecting what traits are passed on and which aren't.

So, evolution doesn't rule out God. It's perfectly possible to believe that evolution is a tool used by God. And evolution doesn't say anything about where life came from in the first place. Biological evolution is ONLY about how life forms change over many generations.

Hope that helps.

It certainly help to read about the gist of evolution, with examples, and without jargons.

I have always believe that living things can change over time within certain limits -- so that some horses run faster than others, and some giant fossils of insects and mammals had been found which prove that certain changes did happen -- as life adapts to weather, terrain and different conditions. God's creation is dynamic and to Him, life on earth is a stage, a field where living things have a life of their own as they breathe, live and interact (this is something that SLP or @SLP don't understand, he alleged that extinction of some species means God's creation is flawed).

Although evolution did not claim there is no God, however, do some of their beliefs imply no God? The biggest example is the monkey evolved to human, of course.. They may say they haven't prove it, so they are not confirming it. And I wonder if they have made other controversial claims about how some living things evolve.

Another observation is the way evolutionists claim that a fossil is 50 million or even 150 million years old. I do not believe that scientists or geologists today have any methods to backdate anything that far back. Carbon dating or other methods are not that powerful or accurate.. I read about an ex-evolutionist, who left the organization, he said numbers like 10 million years are not reliable at all because...

.... Well, Evolutionists believe that changes in living things had to happen slowly, so they have to claim that the earth geography is very old as well. The earth mass and rocks could have been there, formless and void (Genesis), lifeless for millions of years, before God construction began, maybe 10,000-100000 years ago. But i dont think any methods today can date life or geography accurately beyond 100,000 yrs -- or even half of that. What I mean is evolutionists' beliefs become questionable when they claim that certain fossils are 5 or 100 million years old.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

roman2819

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Nov 22, 2012
835
212
Singapore
✟208,448.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It's not just about similarity. It's about patterns of similarity.

The process of evolution is constrained by its mechanisms, primarily inheritance. And while there are known mechanisms for horizontal DNA transfer (such as viral insertions), the primary mechanism that contributes to an organism's DNA is genetic inheritance from its parent organisms.

Thus when examining the patterns of DNA in populations of organisms the pattern that emerges is one of inheritance. IOW, that organisms appear to share common ancestors as opposed to independent creation.

Now a designer wouldn't be constrained in this manner. A designer could mix 'n match DNA in ways far beyond the constraints of biological evolution. And if you look at what scientists do with genetic engineering, this is exactly what they do.

Thus you have everything from blatant chimeric organisms (like these glow in the dark rabbits made using jellyfish DNA), to encoding of computer data in a genome (like encoding an animated GIF into a bacteria) to the invention of completely novel DNA nucleotides.

The above represents things a designer could do that wouldn't fit with what we know of biological evolution. So why when we look at nature do we not see patterns of those things? Why instead does all life look like it evolved and share common ancestry?

If you want to make an argument for design then you need to be able to explain the patterns we see.

I have always believe that God created living things that can adapt and change within certain range and limits in order to adapt to their environment -- which demonstrate the depth and intricacies of his power to create.

Although evolution may be silent about origins of creation or God, however, some of their beliefs may contradict the Bible. And also the numbers of millenums they dated certain fossils, to be 50 or 150 milliom years is not substantive by credible evidence -- which i said in post #404
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
8,649
9,620
✟240,926.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
.... Well, Evolutionists believe that changes in living things had to happen slowly, so they have to claim that the earth geography is very old as well.
You really should spend some time studying the relevant history of the subjects. That way you wouldn't make ill informed errors. The evidence for the age of the Earth and the evidence for evolution emerged independently and in parallel. It didn't take long, however, before it was clear that the independent lines of evidence supported each other. I could direct you to popular books on the subject if you wish.
 
Upvote 0

Larniavc

Leading a blameless life
Jul 14, 2015
12,340
7,679
51
✟314,979.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
From studying scientific descriptions it appears to me that everything was specially designed and created. You may own your conclusions but you don't own the evidence.
What is the hallmark of design?
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: SLP
Upvote 0

SLP

Senior Member
May 29, 2002
2,369
660
✟21,532.00
Faith
Atheist
It means that we are formed with the elemental substances of the earth. When we die we go back to 'soil'.
Composition of soil:

upload_2020-2-18_12-40-31.png


So, all you have is wishful thinking and unwarranted extrapolation.
Typical.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Astrophile
Upvote 0

SLP

Senior Member
May 29, 2002
2,369
660
✟21,532.00
Faith
Atheist
From studying scientific descriptions
Report to us how you "studied" these descriptions such that you concluded 'made by God.'
it appears to me that everything was specially designed and created.
When all one has is a hammer...
You may own your conclusions but you don't own the evidence.
No, but I also don't spin and distort and extrapolate the evidence for the sole purpose of making it look like some ancient stories are true.

Troll.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Ophiolite
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SLP

Senior Member
May 29, 2002
2,369
660
✟21,532.00
Faith
Atheist
It certainly help to read about the gist of evolution, with examples, and without jargons.
Right... no scientific jargon in my science, please!
God's creation is dynamic and to Him, life on earth is a stage, a field where living things have a life of their own as they breathe, live and interact (this is something that SLP or @SLP don't understand, he alleged that extinction of some species means God's creation is flawed).
Actually, that is not what I alleged. I simply replied to you assertion that "millions of lifeforms have turned out so well is proof of design by Creator."
with:

"What makes you think that they turned out 'so well'? What about the MILLIONS of those that went extinct?"

Can you not see the contradiction - if they 'turned out pretty well', does that mean that God's unsubstantiated creative acts were not that great?
 
Upvote 0

SLP

Senior Member
May 29, 2002
2,369
660
✟21,532.00
Faith
Atheist
Possibly a cost/benefit study. The bible says that it's "better" to do certain things a certain way. That shouldn't be too hard prove or disprove.

Yes - in one part, it says it is better to slaughter fetuses when they are in the uterus of a woman that does not worship God than to, maybe, forgive them? Will them to get in line?

I think it is objectively true that slaughtering fetuses and children because their parents do not worship Jehovah is a really sickening, pathetic way of doing something.

Not you, though.

Never the less, how about providing 5 examples of the bible saying that it's "better" to do certain things a certain way.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,981
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟982,622.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Last edited:
  • Useful
Reactions: SLP
Upvote 0

OldWiseGuy

Wake me when it's soup.
Site Supporter
Feb 4, 2006
46,773
10,981
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟982,622.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Report to us how you "studied" these descriptions such that you concluded 'made by God.'

When all one has is a hammer...

No, but I also don't spin and distort and extrapolate the evidence for the sole purpose of making it look like some ancient stories are true.

Troll.

They are true, to the best of my understanding
 
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,372
Frozen North
✟336,823.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
I have always believe that God created living things that can adapt and change within certain range and limits in order to adapt to their environment -- which demonstrate the depth and intricacies of his power to create.

Although evolution may be silent about origins of creation or God, however, some of their beliefs may contradict the Bible. And also the numbers of millenums they dated certain fossils, to be 50 or 150 milliom years -- which i said in post #404

This doesn't address my point.

In examining living organisms in nature, life on Earth shows patterns that conform to evolution and shared common ancestry.

A designer could create life forms in blatant violation of these patterns, yet we don't observe those things in nature. Why is that?

Likewise, if you want to claim that life can adapt or change within limits you need to demonstrate what those limits are. Because in examining life forms in nature, those limits don't appear to exist nor anything else that suggests independent creation. Rather, all life bears the hallmarks of shared common ancestry.

So either all life on Earth was created to have the appearance of common ancestry via evolution. Or life forms have the appearance of common ancestry because they really do share that common ancestry via evolution.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Ophiolite
Upvote 0

driewerf

a day at the Zoo
Mar 7, 2010
3,340
1,900
✟260,759.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
  • Like
Reactions: SLP
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
8,649
9,620
✟240,926.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
They are true, to the best of my understanding
I am confident that is correct. That, however, is a reflection on your understanding not on the truth. By your own repeated admission your studies of the matter have been cursory, minimal, lightweight and guided by predetermined beliefs.

Tell me, have you any interest in buying an iconic bridge?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: SLP
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.