The Demise of Evolution

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Kylie

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Regarding similar DNA, could they mean that God created them that way, with similar DNA? Similarity does not point to evolution exclusively, does it?

No, but it is the best fit when it comes to evolution. For examples, why are dolphins air breathers? They have a very similar role as sharks, being fast aquatic predators that prey on fish, and evolution has certainly driven them to look very similar. But a dolphin's DNA shows that it is more closely related to an elephant than it is to a shark. Why would this be the case?

Some people believe that the presence of item A (eg a certain tissue) found in 10 species is proof of evolution. My question would be: Could it also mean that the Creator designed item A to be part of these 10 species?

I think the argument that the same thing found in ten different species is proof of evolution is a bit weak. The argument would be stronger if the example was more specific. For example, if we take the forelegs of certain animals, say bats, horses, whales, humans, mice and elephants, we can see similarities in the way the bones are arranged that indicate that they share a common ancestor. This ancestor then divided up into groups that evolved the same bone structure to carry out different roles. The bones may have changed shape, but the basic arrangement is still the same. This is evidence of evolution, because it is unlikely that random chance would have resulted in such similar arrangements, and a designer would not have modified the same base to work for such different roles, he could have designed different structures perfectly suited to their intended role.

Perhaps you can offer some pointers here : What are the main features or beliefs of Evolution? For so many years, evolution has been presented as the alternative theory to creation, that it means no creator, and everything happen on its own. But some people in this discussion say this isn't true. IF so, why didn't evolutionists come out early to correct this belief which is held by majority of people in different parts of the world? I cannot it help but ask: Is this an evolutionist strawman? (the counter claim of creationist strawman, a term coined by some people here) .

So would you explain the main features of evolution? It cannot be unexplainable and complex. If i am told to go read it up myself, then I can only say perhaps no one knows enough to even explain the main features in a few words. I also hope to see clear opinions on whether evolution believe that one specie can evolve into another, and what are examples? Do evolution include changes in kinds? Does evolution believe in no god and if not, what is evolution trying to say? Quite a few people say I misunderstood evolution, they kept saying what evolution is not... Not this andv not that. So kind say in a few concise sentences : What are the main points of evolution?

Evolution is a very broad subject and has many parts, so it's not possible to give a complete overview of the entire topic in a few sentences. But the basics of evolution are as follows:

Individuals in a population are mostly similar to each other, but they have slight changes between them. For example, all zebras are basically horse shaped and have black and white stripes, but some may have greater stamina than others, some may have poorer eyesight, etc. All the different characteristics of an individual are controlled by the genes in their DNA.

When two individuals reproduce, the DNA of their offspring is made up of a combination of the DNA from the parents, so the offspring tends to have characteristics from both of them. Also, so small changes can also happen due to errors as the DNA is copied as the offspring's cells divide. This means that the offspring can have different combinations of characteristics from the parents, as well as some slight changes that came from small mutations. This will gives the offspring different traits than those of its parents.

If the different traits are beneficial and help the offspring survive longer (say, better hearing, or stronger muscles), then the offspring is likely to have more offspring of its own. And when it does have offspring, those new offspring are likely to get the genes for these beneficial characteristics from its parent who had them.

On the other hand, if the traits are harmful (say more susceptible to disease, of more brittle bones), then the animal is likely to die before it can produce babies. Thus, the genes that cause the harmful traits are likely to be weeded out because any animal that has them is less likely to reproduce.

So, over many generations, the genes that bring about beneficial traits are likely to spread, and the genes that cause detrimental traits are likely to die out and no be passed on. This results in the population of animals gradually getting the traits that leave them well able to deal with the pressures they face in their lives, and they thus become better evolved for their environment. This process is called "Natural Selection", because nature is selecting what traits are passed on and which aren't.

So, evolution doesn't rule out God. It's perfectly possible to believe that evolution is a tool used by God. And evolution doesn't say anything about where life came from in the first place. Biological evolution is ONLY about how life forms change over many generations.

Hope that helps.
 
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Ophiolite

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Why am I posting on this thread?
No. Why are you here? Why, given the immense power and perspicacity afforded you by the subtle tendrils of your "gut feel" and lithified certainty of your beliefs, why are you squandering these resources on a third rate planet circling a fourth rate star, rather than out there in the rough and tumble of intergalactice space, searching for the ever elusive dark matter and others of that ilk? :)
 
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SLP

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I emphasized 2 points in my answer.

The millions of life forms - trees, landscapes, and millions of land and sea creatures that turn out so well is overwhelming proof of design by a Creator.
Perhaps I should add that mere assertions are ALSO not evidence.
The above mentioned is sufficient proof of creation
LOL!
Not even close.
'Wow, look at all the animals and landscapes(?), mommy - Jesus did ALL that?'
'Yes little Timmy, Jesus did all that.'
'WOW!'

That is about what you've presented so far - the silly awe of a child.
That the Bible was not referring to a six-day creation process, and I substantiate it by explaining the use of the word 'day' in religious manuscripts. I feel it is important to explain that.
So cool how creationists cannot even agree on a timescale using the same source (and no evidence).
Now i have a question: Regarding the belief that millions of lifeforms have turned out so well is proof of design by Creator.
It is a child's belief.
What makes you think that they turned out 'so well'? What about the MILLIONS of those that went extinct?
Is this too simple for evolutionists to believe,
Simplistic, yes.
such that they have to disagree by saying that lifeforms must have evolved instead?
No, silly, the EVIDENCE indicates that evolution is the true cause of the diversity we see.
If left on their own, what is the odds or probability that everything can turn out so well in such a coordinated manner?
Probability = 1.0.
What is the probability that you preferred deity is the actual creator of the universe and everything in it, and why do you think non-brainwashed people should accept so silly a position when it is 100% devoid of corroborating evidence of any kind?
A christian website says it is like striking the power all lottery 7 times, meaning highly impossible.

Highly impossible??? Say it isn't so!!

My gosh, if a CHRISTIAN website says something silly about probability, then golly, it MUST be true!
 
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SLP

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What "cellular changes" do you think there would be?
I have said this before, i will say it again, and with a few related questions about evolution.
Great!
Cellular changes that clearly demonstrate that a species evolved into another.
Right - but I asked what such changes do yo think there should be. I did not ask you to just re-state the same empty claim.
Now, if some is going to say that the presence of item A (eg a certain tissue) found in 10 species is proof of evolution, my question would be: Could it also mean that the Creator designed item A to be part of these species?
So, you have no positive evidence for your claim - at best, you seem to appear to have some 'whataboutism' and that is all.
So would you explain the main features of evolution? It cannot be unexplainable and complex. If i am told to go read myself, then I can only say perhaps no one knows enough to even explain the main features.
I know the features, and have taught evolution at the university level. But this is a discussion forum, not a classroom, and YOU have made claims about a topic that you seem to be admitting to be ignorant of. WHY would you bring up such topics in the first place?
You ask about 'cellular changes' demonstrative of evolution, yet cannot even indicate what you mean or suggest why there should be such changes.

Here is a website that is often suggested for folks like you - it is in very simple language and can answer all of your basic questions -

Welcome to Evolution 101!

I also hope to see clear opinions on does evolution believe that one specie can evolve into another, and what are examples? Do evolution include changes in kinds? Does evolution believe in no god and if not, what is evolution trying to say?

These are things that you should have asked in your FIRST post, not after having your ignorance of the topic exposed.
 
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SLP

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The earth's crust was designed, including the materials. However, mountains and rubble cast up by tectonic plate action have no design although they behave in accordance with the laws of physics.
I do eagerly await your presentation of evidence supportive of these claims.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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No. Why are you here? Why, given the immense power and perspicacity afforded you by the subtle tendrils of your "gut feel" and lithified certainty of your beliefs, why are you squandering these resources on a third rate planet circling a fourth rate star, rather than out there in the rough and tumble of intergalactice space, searching for the ever elusive dark matter and others of that ilk? :)

I think earth is a first rate planet, and happy to be here. :)
 
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OldWiseGuy

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So you accept ancient tales with no evidence over scientific theories with evidence.

Typical.

Perhaps science should put bible principles to the test.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I do eagerly await your presentation of evidence supportive of these claims.

Lots of studies on this that reveal purposeful design, including the selection of specialized materials (you guys did the studies).
 
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SLP

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Lots of studies on this that reveal purposeful design, including the selection of specialized materials (you guys did the studies).
Examples please.

I am especially interested in seeing the the publications by' us' that demonstrated that "The earth's crust was designed,".

Or shall I just assume that you are playing games?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I think the test has shown that, for example, the principles regarding life in Genesis have been shown to be bunk.

I meant the things you can actually test.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Examples please.

I am especially interested in seeing the the publications by' us' that demonstrated that "The earth's crust was designed,".

Or shall I just assume that you are playing games?

After perusing some scientific studies it appears that the earth was purposefully designed, which would include all of it's elements. This conforms with the bible narrative that the earth was specially formed.
 
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SLP

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I meant the things you can actually test.
You think the notion of magically turning dust of the ground into a fully formed human male is in need of being tested?

Why don't people like you ever test these silly tribal claims?

Alas, you can offer no examples.

I read yesterday a link to one of your posts where you admitted to being a troll.

it is looking like maybe that was the sole post in which you have not been disingenuous.
 
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SLP

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After perusing some scientific studies it appears that the earth was purposefully designed,
So you mean that, in reality, you made unwarranted extrapolations to make facts fit into your Bronze Age tales.
This conforms with the bible narrative that the earth was specially formed.

So it is tall tale on top of tall tale with you.

Troll it is.
 
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Ophiolite

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Lots of studies on this that reveal purposeful design, including the selection of specialized materials (you guys did the studies).
Cite these studies or shut up.
 
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You think the notion of magically turning dust of the ground into a fully formed human male is in need of being tested?

It means that we are formed with the elemental substances of the earth. When we die we go back to 'soil'.
 
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