The Cruel Myth of the ‘Gateway Job’

wing2000

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This is an excellent point, one I wish someone had explained to me when I finally separated from the US Army. This is based on my personal experience, to be sure, but from that I say Stamperben also makes a valid point.

When I retired from active duty I was of course still young enough to look to do something else. I went back to school, but also went on the job market. I thought, and my attitude was, my experiences in the military would count for enough to impress potential employers. But never having been in the job market prior was I ever naive. Looking back I believe my greatest problem was in translating my experience into terms which would resonate with the interviewers. What traditionally occurred was I would relate what I had done and the interviewers would look at me for a moment and then say something to the effect of thanks and we will be in touch. Which of course meant they were not interested.

I recall finally asking one interviewer, in severe frustration, what the problem was. His answer was the job in question required the ability to react fast and think on your feet. My reply was to ask if he had ever been shot at, and are you kidding me? But again, never having been in the private job market I realize I just didn't speak the language. Another interviewer told me my experience in the military never required me to earn a profit, and therefore did not count for much.

Still frustrated I took a job in fast food management with Wendys. I thought having a job while looking for another job would be of benefit somehow. Again, I was being naive. Potential employers simply interpreted that decision quite negatively, a sign fast food was apparently all I was capable of. That job drastically limited my options. Nobody cared I was conscientious enough to take a job, to go out and do something to legitimately earn money. The fast food industry is the object of both scorn and ridicule in the business world, those who work in it suffer from that stigma and I was therefore stigmatized. I wish I had known this when separating from the military. What I learned the hard way was potential corporate employers do discriminate when judging background, and would rather higher those with no experience as opposed to those with experience in professions or jobs they deem substandard for whatever reason.

Eventually I abandoned the job search and decided to use the fast food job to support for my additional schooling, and then quit. In the end the profession I found a home in was also one which did not require turning a profit. I am happy with it, so events worked out. But still, had I read the OP article at some point during separation from the military I would never have taken that one particular job. I thought I was being responsible, but in effect I was, at least for a time, just shooting myself in the foot.

Make of this what you will.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Maybe some military recruits and current active duty members will learn from your experience.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Why should anyone expect to make $70k+? One can live pretty comfortably on substantially less.

Sure, you can live comfortably on less, but $70k isn't really that much. That's roughly the middle of the pack for median salaries of mid-career professionals: Majors That Pay You Back - 2013-2014 College Salary Report
BEST UNDERGRAD COLLEGE DEGREES BY SALARY, 2010-2011 | Department of Economics

We really need to stop defining poverty as a comparison to others' income instead of as a measure of one's ability to meet their basic needs.

We weren't talking about poverty per se; we were talking about whether or not these jobs were stepping stones to successful careers.
 
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dies-l

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Sure, you can live comfortably on less, but $70k isn't really that much. That's roughly the middle of the pack for median salaries of mid-career professionals: Majors That Pay You Back - 2013-2014 College Salary Report
BEST UNDERGRAD COLLEGE DEGREES BY SALARY, 2010-2011 | Department of Economics

We weren't talking about poverty per se; we were talking about whether or not these jobs were stepping stones to successful careers.

My contention would be that $40-50k for someone with no college or vocational education and no specialized skill set seems pretty successful to me.
 
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EdwinWillers

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Just an aside, your job history has a lot of commonalities with my own - paper boy, grocery checker, stock boy, bartender (plus working at various retails stores, waiter, mowing lawns, inventory dept at a publishing company, factory line). I wouldn't say, however, that any of them helped me find or achieve a career, they just helped pay some of my expenses until i did.
Precisely. That's what I wanted to say. You said it better.
 
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iluvatar5150

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My contention would be that $40-50k for someone with no college or vocational education and no specialized skill set seems pretty successful to me.

Sure it would, but where'd you come up with that number?
 
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Joykins

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Why should anyone expect to make $70k+? One can live pretty comfortably on substantially less. We really need to stop defining poverty as a comparison to others' income instead of as a measure of one's ability to meet their basic needs.

The official poverty line for a family of 4 is $23,550.

Median income for households is $51,017.

Poverty rate in the US is about 15%.
 
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MachZer0

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Not a straw man, a straw man requires a counter example that doesn't actually address the original argument.

Mine is just a question trying to get to know what you are thinking.
I was quite clear about my thoughts :wave:
 
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MachZer0

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Where have you been? :doh:Contractors are replacing "cooks" and many drivers are contractors as well.

An Army cook is qualified to work in the civilian world as a..... cook. Unless he/she goes to a civilian culinary school, there is no advancement. A truck driver requires a CDL, a civilian credential.

How many jobs are there for Apache helicopter mechanics? Civilian mechanics have to go to school to become ASE credentialed in civilian life.
An Army cook is often times a management position which could easily transfer to a civilian job running a restaurant kitchen. An Army truck driver need only get the CDL to get a job as a truck driver or even own his sown truck. An Apache helicopter mechanic would be qualified for a variety of mechanical jobs. Of course, if they approach it pessimistically as some here have they will have difficulty for sure
 
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MachZer0

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No they weren't. They just gave me some pocket change. Wealthy parents or a trust fund would've done the same. In fact, having to work those jobs slowed down the rate I could get classes taken and it took longer to get my degree.
Yes they were. They gave you pocket change and experience :wave:
 
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Lachrymose

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This might sound silly, but this has been a very nice thread to read.

It seems that nearly everyone in this thread is presenting some well thought-out, level-headed posts.

And at risk of ruining this moment, I find that even the people I disagree with the most, sometimes vehemently, are actually at the top of that heap.

Seriously, it gives me a bit more hope in humanity and trying to work together to achieve our goals.

Cheesy? Maybe. But sincere. :thumbsup:
 
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dies-l

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The official poverty line for a family of 4 is $23,550.

Median income for households is $51,017.

Poverty rate in the US is about 15%.

And, I'd grant that raising a family of 4 on $23k would be tricky, at least in the u.s. But, my experience when I worked in retail was that there are some decent paying jobs in retail and service. It just takes time and effort to get to them.
 
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keith99

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It fits well into the definition of "substantially less" than $70k. It also reflects the earning potential of the types of low level management positions that are available in retail, fast food, and similar low skill industries.

You mean the jobs that getting an entry level position in retail, fast food and similar low skill industries are a stepping stone to?
 
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cow451

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Yes they were. They gave you pocket change and experience :wave:

Your fact-deflecting shields are as strong as ever. As I said several times, using BOLD font where indicated:

The minimum-wage work did NOTHING to make my resume more conducive to my career advancement. A trust fund, gifts, gambling winnings or grand theft would have accomplished the same means.

Please refrain from yet another of your inane responses as the discussion is over. Thanks for playing, though.
 
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cow451

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And, I'd grant that raising a family of 4 on $23k would be tricky, at least in the u.s. But, my experience when I worked in retail was that there are some decent paying jobs in retail and service. It just takes time and effort to get to them.

A typical retail store manager makes about that much. To advance to a truly decent salary requires a degree in Business or a related major. The old "working your way up the ladder" deal has passed on, except in rare cases.
 
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MachZer0

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Your fact-deflecting shields are as strong as ever. As I said several times, using BOLD font where indicated:

The minimum-wage work did NOTHING to make my resume more conducive to my career advancement. A trust fund, gifts, gambling winnings or grand theft would have accomplished the same means.

Please refrain from yet another of your inane responses as the discussion is over. Thanks for playing, though.
Yet those jobs provided you with experience and provided you income while going to college. Stepping stones they were indeed, as those types of jobs have traditionally been and should remain :wave:
 
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dies-l

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A typical retail store manager makes about that much. To advance to a truly decent salary requires a degree in Business or a related major. The old "working your way up the ladder" deal has passed on, except in rare cases.

That was not my experience in retail management. When I worked in retail management, it was an unusual for an assistant manager to make less than $30k and for a store manager to make less than $45k. You might be right in the case of fast food managers, but in terms of retail management, your numbers are not at all consistent with my experience. In my company, it was unusual for store managers to have college degrees.

That being said, I'd argue that $30 to $40k is a decent salary. I know many people with post collegiate education who make salaries in this range. My wife and I both have post-collegiate degrees, and our combined income is in this range (for a family of 5). We live comfortably, but not luxuriously.
 
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Sistrin

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This a great line:

The minimum-wage work did NOTHING to make my resume more conducive to my career advancement. A trust fund, gifts, gambling winnings or grand theft would have accomplished the same means.
 
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iluvatar5150

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That being said, I'd argue that $30 to $40k is a decent salary. I know many people with post collegiate education who make salaries in this range. My wife and I both have post-collegiate degrees, and our combined income is in this range (for a family of 5). We live comfortably, but not luxuriously.

That really depends on where you live. In a large urban area, that barely pays rent for a single person.
 
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