The Cruel Myth of the ‘Gateway Job’

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dies-l

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Your fact-deflecting shields are as strong as ever. As I said several times, using BOLD font where indicated:

The minimum-wage work did NOTHING to make my resume more conducive to my career advancement. A trust fund, gifts, gambling winnings or grand theft would have accomplished the same means.

Please refrain from yet another of your inane responses as the discussion is over. Thanks for playing, though.

I guess my experience has been different. From the time I was 16 until now, I have worked for 6 different companies, not including internships. All but two of these were in retail of some sort, and all but one I would say provided me with skills that are useful in my current career. The one exception is a job that I had when I was 16 for a total of 5 weeks.

The progression went something like this: I started out as a stockboy. Did a good enough job that when I turned 18, I was allowed to cashier in the pharmacy department. Eventually, I was asked to help out in the pharmacy. That experience allowed me to get a job as a pharmacy technician in another company. Eventually, became assistant manager. Then, decided to go to law school for a change of pace. However, the business and pharmaceutical knowledge that I gained in my "stepping stone" jobs has proved very helpful in my career as an attorney. If I had stayed in my last retail position, I could easily be making $60k+ by now. I make a lot less, but I enjoy my work a lot more, now.
 
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cow451

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I guess my experience has been different. From the time I was 16 until now, I have worked for 6 different companies, not including internships. All but two of these were in retail of some sort, and all but one I would say provided me with skills that are useful in my current career. The one exception is a job that I had when I was 16 for a total of 5 weeks.

The progression went something like this: I started out as a stockboy. Did a good enough job that when I turned 16, I was allowed to cashier in the pharmacy department. Eventually, I was asked to help out in the pharmacy. That experience allowed me to get a job as a pharmacy technician in another company. Eventually, became assistant manager. Then, decided to go to law school for a change of pace. However, the business and pharmaceutical knowledge that I gained in my "stepping stone" jobs has proved very helpful in my career as an attorney. If I had stayed in my last retail position, I could easily be making $60k+ by now. I make a lot less, but I enjoy my work a lot more, now.

You passed the bar because you went to law school and studied law. You are a lawyer because you graduated law school and passed the bar. Whether you mowed lawns, stocked shelves or learned to give change without a calculator is not why you are credentialed to practice law.

Using this logic, being a meth dealer or exotic dancer would be a stepping stone. Life experience can be had in any manner, paid or not. We aren't talking life experience, we're talking credentials.

Moving up in a company like you did at the Pharmacy is an example of "stepping stones". But no matter how good you got, you could not be the Pharmacist without going to Pharmacy School and getting licensed. See the difference?
 
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dies-l

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You passed the bar because you went to law school and studied law. You are a lawyer because you graduated law school and passed the bar. Whether you mowed lawns, stocked shelves or learned to give change without a calculator is not why you are credentialed to practice law.

Using this logic, being a meth dealer or exotic dancer would be a stepping stone. Life experience can be had in any manner, paid or not. We aren't talking life experience, we're talking credentials.

Moving up in a company like you did at the Pharmacy is an example of "stepping stones". But no matter how good you got, you could not be the Pharmacist without going to Pharmacy School and getting licensed. See the difference?

If I had been a meth dealer or exotic dancer, those jobs probably would have benefitted me in my current job, too.

You're right that I was never going to become a pharmacist without going to pharmacy school. But that wasn't the claim that was being made. The claim was that you can't get a decent job just by going through the ranks from a low wage job. My experience in the retail sector suggests otherwise. You also claim that our low wage entry level jobs don't benefit us in our careers. Once again, that's not been my experience. Just because certain jobs require more education, and not just experience, doesn't mean the experience isn't valuable. Yes, I could be a lawyer without having had any of my previous jobs, but my previous work experience helps me to be a better lawyer.
 
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MachZer0

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Experience with what? How are those experience useful to his career?
The experience of showing up according to a schedule, doing what you're instructed to do etc. Basic skills for employment
 
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super animator

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The experience of showing up according to a schedule, doing what you're instructed to do etc. Basic skills for employment
You don't need to be employed in order to have that kind of experience, because you already doing that during the time that your at school as your growing up.
 
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MachZer0

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You don't need to be employed in order to have that kind of experience, because you already doing that during the time that your at school as your growing up.
And the job experience builds on that :wave:
 
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cow451

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If I had been a meth dealer or exotic dancer, those jobs probably would have benefitted me in my current job, too.

You're right that I was never going to become a pharmacist without going to pharmacy school. But that wasn't the claim that was being made. The claim was that you can't get a decent job just by going through the ranks from a low wage job. My experience in the retail sector suggests otherwise. You also claim that our low wage entry level jobs don't benefit us in our careers. Once again, that's not been my experience. Just because certain jobs require more education, and not just experience, doesn't mean the experience isn't valuable. Yes, I could be a lawyer without having had any of my previous jobs, but my previous work experience helps me to be a better lawyer.

A "Stepping stone" is the opportunity to advance upward. Most low wage jobs are simply stepping sideways.
 
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MachZer0

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A "Stepping stone" is the opportunity to advance upward. Most low wage jobs are simply stepping sideways.
Stepping stones get you from one place to another That's what low wage jobs do by teaching you giving you basic skills and discipline and experience.
 
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dies-l

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A "Stepping stone" is the opportunity to advance upward. Most low wage jobs are simply stepping sideways.

Like I said, that's not been my experience. In the low wage jobs that I have worked, there have always been opportunities for advancement for people who were relatively decent at the job and who were willing to stick around. For example, when I worked for a major pharmacy corporation, I noticed that there were several types of low wage employees:

(1) Students and other temporary workers, who were using the job exclusively as a means of paying the bills during a season of life. These people rarely made it to higher paying or more prestigious jobs.

(2) Job hoppers, who came to work with us until a slightly better paying opportunity came along. Once again, because these workers didn't stick around very long, opportunity for advancement eluded them.

(3) Retirees, who came to work as a means of filling their time and making a few extra dollars. These workers didn't advance simply because they didn't want to.

(4) Hard workers, who simply lacked the skills necessary to hold a job with any substantial responsibility were a rare group, usually people with some sort of disability that kept them from advancing, but were quite content to have to opportunity to be allowed to do what they could.

and basically, everyone else:

(5) Future managers, shift leaders, etc., were people who worked hard, looking for opportunities to be indispensable to the store so that they would have the greatest opportunity to advance, and most of them did.

The problem with your analysis is that you are looking at all low wage workers as a homogeneous group, with each member having a similar advancement goal, which is generally frustrated by the mean old corporation that keeps them down. The reality is, however, that there are many different types of people who work low wage jobs, only some of whom are even remotely interested in advancement. And, many of those who try, actually do advance.

That's not to say that there is not a point at which the opportunity for advancement ceases without some further education. But, I don't see the problem with that. If you want to make $70,000 a year, then invest in education. By the same token, there are people who invest in education and who make the same or less than they could make in retail of service. For some of us, it's not all about the money.
 
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keith99

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You don't need to be employed in order to have that kind of experience, because you already doing that during the time that your at school as your growing up.

Just like you're supposed to learn proper English in school.

EDIT: For employers schooling before college does not show that you're responsible. It just shows that your parents are responsible.
 
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