The Cruel Myth of the ‘Gateway Job’

[technofox]

Corporate Welfare.

Yeah so much for free market. I think we are regressing to an age of corporate feudalism. It's a very different age indeed.

 

[cow451]

I know it's not impossible, but I question it's methodology and sampling bias. I know several people who worked crap jobs, gone to college, and are now middle class or higher. Their sampling is obviously biased in some way, especially when, according to the US census, 17% of the adult population have advanced degrees in the private sector, more so in the public sector since government jobs require a lot of education. I seriously believe this study is flawed.

They got better jobs because they went to college, not because of the crap jobs. I got my career jobs because I had a degree, not because of the low-paying jobs I had while I was in college.

 

[MachZer0]

But what if those people cannot afford to make a living off of those wages, because they were in formerly higher paying jobs that did pay the bills?

A living wage is much more likely to get these people back to work then minimum wage. The caveat is that living wage doesn't mean you get to keep your mini-Mcmasion, but allows for you to put a roof over your head, food on the table, clothes on your back, and healthcare.

Then they will be motivated to move up again.

 

[MachZer0]

Often the state pays people who are working because their employer wont provide a living wage and they haven't been able to find anything better. Many of the people on assistance are actually working. The state subsidizes the cheap skate employers.

Another problem

 

[technofox]

Then they will be motivated to move up again.

I am not sure if my post is clicking with you.

Not everyone wants to move up to a higher paying job. Some people are satisfied cleaning the restrooms at the rest stops off of highways and they want nothing else. All they may care about is just having the basic needs met, if they want extras they can try to obtain a better paying job or moonlighting. Simple life.

 

[technofox]

Another problem

And what is your solution might I ask?

 

[Ishraqiyun]

Another problem

Yes, one that can be solved by raising the minimum wage to a living way. Both the worker and the tax payers benefit.

 

[MachZer0]

Corporate Welfare.

Envy

 

[Sistrin]

Your time is valuable. If you think your time is only worth $7.25 an hour, then by all means get a minimum wage job. If your time is more valuable, then you should spend it wisely.

This is an excellent point, one I wish someone had explained to me when I finally separated from the US Army. This is based on my personal experience, to be sure, but from that I say Stamperben also makes a valid point.

When I retired from active duty I was of course still young enough to look to do something else. I went back to school, but also went on the job market. I thought, and my attitude was, my experiences in the military would count for enough to impress potential employers. But never having been in the job market prior was I ever naive. Looking back I believe my greatest problem was in translating my experience into terms which would resonate with the interviewers. What traditionally occurred was I would relate what I had done and the interviewers would look at me for a moment and then say something to the effect of thanks and we will be in touch. Which of course meant they were not interested.

I recall finally asking one interviewer, in severe frustration, what the problem was. His answer was the job in question required the ability to react fast and think on your feet. My reply was to ask if he had ever been shot at, and are you kidding me? But again, never having been in the private job market I realize I just didn't speak the language. Another interviewer told me my experience in the military never required me to earn a profit, and therefore did not count for much.

Still frustrated I took a job in fast food management with Wendys. I thought having a job while looking for another job would be of benefit somehow. Again, I was being naive. Potential employers simply interpreted that decision quite negatively, a sign fast food was apparently all I was capable of. That job drastically limited my options. Nobody cared I was conscientious enough to take a job, to go out and do something to legitimately earn money. The fast food industry is the object of both scorn and ridicule in the business world, those who work in it suffer from that stigma and I was therefore stigmatized. I wish I had known this when separating from the military. What I learned the hard way was potential corporate employers do discriminate when judging background, and would rather higher those with no experience as opposed to those with experience in professions or jobs they deem substandard for whatever reason.

Eventually I abandoned the job search and decided to use the fast food job to support for my additional schooling, and then quit. In the end the profession I found a home in was also one which did not require turning a profit. I am happy with it, so events worked out. But still, had I read the OP article at some point during separation from the military I would never have taken that one particular job. I thought I was being responsible, but in effect I was, at least for a time, just shooting myself in the foot.

Make of this what you will.

 

[MachZer0]

They got better jobs because they went to college, not because of the crap jobs. I got my career jobs because I had a degree, not because of the low-paying jobs I had while I was in college.

That's the whole point. The low paying jobs aren't supposed to be careers, but stepping stones, just as you discovered while working them in college

 

[cow451]

That's the whole point. The low paying jobs aren't supposed to be careers, but stepping stones, just as you discovered while working them in college

They were most definitely NOT "stepping stones". None were jobs with any possibility for advancement--unless I had a college degree. Nice try. Thanks for playing. Check with the guy beside the mop bucket backstage. He has a nice parting gift for you.

 

[cow451]

This is an excellent point, one I wish someone had explained to me when I finally separated from the US Army. This is based on my personal experience, to be sure, but from that I say Stamperben also makes a valid point.

Eventually I abandoned the job search and decided to use the fast food job to support for my additional schooling, and then quit. In the end the profession I found a home in was also one which did not require turning a profit. I am happy with it, so events worked out. But still, had I read the OP article at some point during separation from the military I would never have taken that one particular job. I thought I was being responsible, but in effect I was, at least for a time, just shooting myself in the foot.

Make of this what you will.

I've heard this from lots of vets. There is a good deal of nonsense put out in "support" of the military implying that there is all this great "training" one gets in the military. It seems from the outside that the only civilian career that the military prepares one for is being a mercenary (AKA contractor).

 

[iluvatar5150]

This is an excellent point, one I wish someone had explained to me when I finally separated from the US Army. This is based on my personal experience, to be sure, but from that I say Stamperben also makes a valid point.

When I retired from active duty I was of course still young enough to look to do something else. I went back to school, but also went on the job market. I thought, and my attitude was, my experiences in the military would count for enough to impress potential employers. But never having been in the job market prior was I ever naive. Looking back I believe my greatest problem was in translating my experience into terms which would resonate with the interviewers. What traditionally occurred was I would relate what I had done and the interviewers would look at me for a moment and then say something to the effect of thanks and we will be in touch. Which of course meant they were not interested.

I recall finally asking one interviewer, in severe frustration, what the problem was. His answer was the job in question required the ability to react fast and think on your feet. My reply was to ask if he had ever been shot at, and are you kidding me? But again, never having been in the private job market I realize I just didn't speak the language. Another interviewer told me my experience in the military never required me to earn a profit, and therefore did not count for much.

Still frustrated I took a job in fast food management with Wendys. I thought having a job while looking for another job would be of benefit somehow. Again, I was being naive. Potential employers simply interpreted that decision quite negatively, a sign fast food was apparently all I was capable of. That job drastically limited my options. Nobody cared I was conscientious enough to take a job, to go out and do something to legitimately earn money. The fast food industry is the object of both scorn and ridicule in the business world, those who work in it suffer from that stigma and I was therefore stigmatized. I wish I had known this when separating from the military. What I learned the hard way was potential corporate employers do discriminate when judging background, and would rather higher those with no experience as opposed to those with experience in professions or jobs they deem substandard for whatever reason.

Eventually I abandoned the job search and decided to use the fast food job to support for my additional schooling, and then quit. In the end the profession I found a home in was also one which did not require turning a profit. I am happy with it, so events worked out. But still, had I read the OP article at some point during separation from the military I would never have taken that one particular job. I thought I was being responsible, but in effect I was, at least for a time, just shooting myself in the foot.

Make of this what you will.

Thank you for this post. Not only does it highlight some of the things being discussed in this thread, but also some of the problems related to our current military recruitment tactics. I believe I've read some thigns recently talking about the military trying to improve its services for helping soldiers transition to civilian work, but it seemed to me that they should've done this a long time ago.

I recall finally asking one interviewer, in severe frustration, what the problem was. His answer was the job in question required the ability to react fast and think on your feet. My reply was to ask if he had ever been shot at, and are you kidding me?

Lol. Your post also reinforces my opinion that most recruiters aren't qualified to be hiring for the positions they're hiring for and that the interview process at most companies is a sad, disorganized joke.

 

[keith99]

I've heard this from lots of vets. There is a good deal of nonsense put out in "support" of the military implying that there is all this great "training" one gets in the military. It seems from the outside that the only civilian career that the military prepares one for is being a mercenary (AKA contractor).

I've got to disagree with that. 2 of my last 3 direct supervisors were ex-military and it seems they gained a lot of the tools needed fro a successful business career.

What it did not give them was the roadmap on how to market those tools and abilities.

 

[cow451]

I've got to disagree with that. 2 of my last 3 direct supervisors were ex-military and it seems they gained a lot of the tools needed fro a successful business career.

What it did not give them was the roadmap on how to market those tools and abilities.

I'm not saying their experience was worth nothing. Every job gives one a chance to learn something. But what specifically did your supers measurably learn (credential) in the military that translated into landing those jobs?

The old rule about managers is that a good manager will be a good manager no matter which "school of thought" or type of management training they learned. Same is true for bad managers.

 

[MachZer0]

I am not sure if my post is clicking with you.

Not everyone wants to move up to a higher paying job. Some people are satisfied cleaning the restrooms at the rest stops off of highways and they want nothing else. All they may care about is just having the basic needs met, if they want extras they can try to obtain a better paying job or moonlighting. Simple life.

Then they should be satisfied with their wages. Simple as that

 

[MachZer0]

And what is your solution might I ask?

Don't pay people for not working

 

[MachZer0]

Yes, one that can be solved by raising the minimum wage to a living way. Both the worker and the tax payers benefit.

It could also e solved by people making the effort to get better jobs, a more reasonable solution

 

[NightHawkeye]

Eventually I abandoned the job search and decided to use the fast food job to support for my additional schooling, and then quit. In the end the profession I found a home in was also one which did not require turning a profit. I am happy with it, so events worked out. But still, had I read the OP article at some point during separation from the military I would never have taken that one particular job. I thought I was being responsible, but in effect I was, at least for a time, just shooting myself in the foot.

I can see how, in your case, taking the job at Wendy's did work against you.

In my daughter's case though, working as a cashier seems to have greatly benefitted her in terms of understanding what it means to work a full time job, both the time demands and the emotional demands.

When I was younger I avoided the fast-food industry like the plague, preferring other minimum wage jobs. That worked for me.

 

[Grizzly]

Don't pay people for not working

What should we do for those folks that can't work?