The Created Temple of God, Which is in the Created Heavens

[yeshuasavedme]

........

The context is clear that YHWH indeed set His tabernacle in the sun, for He also states such in Isaiah 18:4, I will take my rest and look down/scan intently/consider from my dwelling place, the dazzling hot owr =light/sun.

The created temple is connected intimately to this present creation, and is in the created heaven, not above it, and it is from there that He dwells as the Great Glory, and from there the inhabitants of the earth are as grasshoppers in His sight and from where He "comes out of His temple" and where He "rides the heavens by His name YAHH!"

In Genesis 1, the Hebrew wording shows that the sun, moon, and stars are in the firmament/expanse which YHWH stretched out between the divided waters; so the correct translation -without interpretation with bias- of that passage of the Hebrew in Genesis 1 states that the waters above the firmament which were divided from the waters below the firmamanet are above the expanse/firmament in which the sun, moon, and stars were set; and they were set there by Him as signs for this present creation.

To translate that the sun has a tabernacle and that the heavens are the tabernacle for the sun is totally non-sensical to the passage and makes no sense whatever, and I always thought so, and then I came to this recent understanding; which I think is a valid conclusion of the evidence.

God fills heaven and earth, but His particular tabernacle is "set" like a fixture, and is called a "fixture -which also translates to his dwelling place/ abode, in Isaiah 18:4; and for this present creation that abode/fixture is set in the sun, which sun itself is called a candlebra, lamp, fixture in Genesis 1, that He set it in the firmament/expanse.
By comparing Enoch's visit to the temple in his vision of Enoch 14 his description of that temple seems to be no other place than that which YHWH declared was His dwelling place -"His tabernacle set in the dazzling hot sun".

For the new creation it will be different, but for this, He has told us where it is, and Enoch went there.

There is something about the tabernacle -tent/temple which Moses made which also relates to the heavens and the sun, and another has picked up on that and written about it in another place; also, when Moses made the copies given him he made them as copies of the things in the heavenlies, and the tent itself seems to represent the stretching out of the heavens; the tabernacle's Holy of Holies seems to represent the tabernacle in the sun in which the Glory of God was seen by Enoch; and the placement of the 12 tribes and their ensigns around the tabernacle in the wilderness seems to connect with the statement of YHWH that "I formed you to plant/establish the heavens", for Abraham was shown the stars [=constellations], and told that "so/thus were his seed [to come from his loins], in Genesis 15. -which is not teaching pre-existence, but the glory laid up for the sons who would inherit eternal life.
Enoch is shown the heavenly "luminaries and lightnings" and is told by the angel Uriel -whose name means light of God, that they were parabolic meanings for those who dwell on earth and who are righteous. Also, in the end of Enoch, those who lose the glory laid up for them are said to have their glory cast down -seems to be parables indeed about the luminaries and angels and humans destined for glory in the second birth in the New Man name, for they are to shine as stars, and shine like the sun, it is said in the Scriptures.


It does seem that Abraham's descendents through Isaac -and then Jacob- to the twelve tribes, were represented by the twelve constellations, from the beginning of this present creation, and that the signs in the heavens speak of God establishing the heavens for the second creation, indeed by the 12 tribes of Israel. for Zion [as the City of God to be established in the heavens] is the woman who is seen as the star sign in Rev 12, crowned with the twelve stars (stars can be constellations, also, in the ancient original language), and she is seen as clothed with the sun.

Born again in Christ believing Gentiles are joined to Israel, which is the name of the New Man, which name is the only name that will get the Glory, as YHWH says in the OT, and so we who are of Christ the Living Spirit are adopted into His New Name which He gave to Jacob and his seed; and we are part of that name by faith -as Abraham was; but the woman seen in heaven is the representation of the City of God which is being built for the second creation, and built on the Chief Foundation Stone; which Stone is the New Man; which New Man is the "New Thing in the earth", which YHWH did do, as the new creation; and He did it when YHWH clothed Himself with second creation human being flesh [Isaiah 59], to come to "build up Zion" of the heavenlies "to appear in His Glory".

All these things are delivered to the world in the living oracles delivered to the namesake people of the New Man name, through Moses, expounded by the prophets, and only by studying the lessons of the Schoolmaster will we come to understanding His plan of them, which is delivered as those Oracles.
I'm only a babe in understanding myself, but one thing I know is that there is nothing to be done in the world present and to come which He has not signed in the Law as given through Moses. Because of that it is instructional to study His patterns of the heavenly things, as delivered through Moses, if we would be wise in understanding -after we come to a personal born again in Christ relationship with Him by His Spirit, anyway, for without knowing Him by that "Revelation/second birth", nothing awaits us but the darkness in the everlasting fire.



Isaiah 40:22 -the underlined words are the original Hebrew. He sits [in the] circle [as the depicted sun disk] earth's inhabitants [are as] grasshoppers. He stretcheth out the heavens as curtain and spread out His tabernacle to dwell in.
[It is] he that sitteth6 upon the circle [as in the ancient depiction of the sun as a disk] of the earth, and the inhabitants6 thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out6 the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out4 as a tent to dwell in:2


Isa 51:16 And I have put4 my words in thy mouth, and I have covered14 thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant2 the heavens, and lay the foundations2 of the earth, and say2 unto Zion, Thou [art] my people.

Isa 54:2 Enlarge54 the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth55 the curtains of thine habitations: spare4 not, lengthen54 thy cords, and strengthen16 thy stakes;

Psa 68:4 Sing3 unto God, sing praises16 to his name: extol3 him that rideth6 upon the heavens by his name YAHH, and rejoice3 before him.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

clothed periballo from peri - peri 4012 and ballw - ballo 906; to throw all around, i.e. invest (with a palisade or with clothing):--array, cast about, clothe(-d me), put on.

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

The context is clear that YHWH indeed set His
tabernacle in the sun, for He also states such in
Isaiah 18:4, I will take my rest and look down/scan
intently/consider from my dwelling place, the
dazzling hot owr =light/sun.

The context of Psalms 19:4 is clear that YHWH
figuratively set in the heavens a tabernacle for the
sun:

"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the
firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day
uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth
knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where
their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out
through all the earth, and their words to the end of
the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the
sun, Which [sun] is as a bridegroom coming out of his
chamber [at sunrise], and rejoiceth as a strong man
to run a race. His [the sun's] going forth is from the
end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it
[the sun crosses the sky]: and there is nothing hid
from the heat thereof [of the sun]" (Psalms 19:1-6).

Also, nothing in the Hebrew or context of Isaiah 18:4
requires that God is referring to the sun as His
dwelling place:

"All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the
earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the
mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.
For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest,
and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear
heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat
of harvest. For afore the harvest, when the bud is
perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the
flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning
hooks, and take away and cut down the branches"
(Isaiah 18:3-5, KJV).

"All you people of the world, you who live on the
earth, when a banner is raised on the mountains,
you will see it, and when a trumpet sounds, you will
hear it. This is what the LORD says to me: 'I will
remain quiet and will look on from my dwelling place,
like shimmering heat in the sunshine, like a cloud of
dew in the heat of harvest.' For, before the harvest,
when the blossom is gone and the flower becomes a
ripening grape, he will cut off the shoots with
pruning knives, and cut down and take away the
spreading branches" (Isaiah 18:3-5, KJV).

Just as God's dwelling place doesn't have to be in
a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest, so it doesn't
have to be in the shimmering heat in the sunshine:
both images can simply be similes describing God's
"looking down" to the earth, His taking knowledge
of what is happening there, as being like a presence
on the surface of the earth, like the shimmering
heat from the sunshine which rests on the surface of
the earth, or like the cloud of dew which rests on
the surface of the earth, so that God's knowledge, His
omniscience about the earth, is poetically transformed
into His very presence, His omnipresence on the earth.

And then in the final verse, Isaiah 18:5, God in His
omniscience and omnipresence becomes active to where
He shows His total sovereingty over the earth, that He
can do with the things on the earth whatsoever He
pleases; He can even (figuratively) ruin a perfectly
good harvest if He wants to, and without any warning
whatsoever, such as the examples of warnings in the
first verse, Isaiah 18:3.

So the Hebrew of Isaiah 18:3-5 makes perfect sense
just as it is translated in both the KJV and the NIV.
But if we take Isaiah 18:4 out of its context and try
to make the Hebrew say something that it in no way
requires, we could miss the whole point of the
passage, and run off with only a mistaken idea of
man's own invention, a meaning never intended by the
original Hebrew.

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

The created temple is connected intimately to this
present creation, and is in the created heaven, not
above it, and it is from there that He dwells as the
Great Glory, and from there the inhabitants of the
earth are as grasshoppers in His sight and from where
He "comes out of His temple" and where He "rides the
heavens by His name YAHH!"

The created temple is indeed connected to this
present creation, and is indeed in the created
heaven, but not the first heaven (the sky), nor the
second heaven (outer space, with all of its 100
billion times 100 billion different suns), but in
the created spiritual realm of the third heaven
(Revelation 4:2; 2 Corinthians 12:2), which is
above both the first heaven and the second heaven,
just as the second heaven is above the first heaven.

The created spiritual realm of the third heaven could
be "above" the first heaven and the second heaven not
in the physical three-dimensional sense that the
second heaven is above the first heaven, but in a
hyper-dimensional sense. That is, the created
spiritual realm could involve three spatial dimensions
which are "higher" than the three spatial dimensions
of the first heaven and the second heaven. This would
mean that the present creation, including the
spiritual realm, would consist of at least seven
dimensions: six spatial dimensions (three physical,
three spiritual), and one temporal dimension.

If this is the case, then the relation between the
spiritual realm and the physical realm would indeed
be "intimate" in that the spiritual realm with its
three "higher" spatial dimensions would be contiguous
to every point of space in our physical realm with its
three "lower" spatial dimensions, just as, by analogy,
the three spatial dimensions of the physical realm
surround a flat sheet of paper (which we could think
of for the purpose of analogy as having only two
spatial dimensions), and the three spatial dimensions
of the physical realm are contiguous to every point on
that flat two-dimensional sheet of paper.

But a creature of only two spatial dimensions living
on that flat sheet of paper would be completely
unaware of the third spatial dimension surrounding it,
for its eyes of only two spatial dimensions would not
be able to see any more than the two spatial
dimensions of the flat sheet of paper.

And just like that little creature living in a realm
with no knowledge of a "higher" third spatial
dimension, even though that dimension is touching it
at every point of its "lower" two-dimensional space,
so it can seem to us that we are living in a creation
of only three spatial dimensions, completely unaware
that there are three "higher" spatial dimensions of
the spiritual realm touching our three "lower" spatial
dimensions at every point in space.

And just as we in our three spatial dimensions can
look "down" at a flat, two-dimensional sheet of paper,
so God and the angels could look "down" at us from the
three "higher" spatial dimensions of the spiritual
realm, so that our entire physical universe could
appear to them as "flat" as a gigantic computer screen
showing an entire computer "world" in operation (such
as Second Life, an entire "world" that people can
watch via the internet).

And just as we have to take on two-dimensional
"avatars" in order to become a part of a two-
dimensional computer-screen world, it's possible that
if the angels want to actually enter into our physical
realm, to actually move from the three "higher"
spatial dimensions of the spiritual realm into the
three "lower" spatial dimensions of the physical
realm, they could have to temporarily take on an
"avatar", a physical body consisting of matter
existing in the three spatial dimensions of the
physical realm.

But because the three "higher" spatial dimensions of
the spiritual realm are contiguous to the three
"lower" spatial dimensions of the physical realm at
every point in space, if an angel wants to visit the
earth it's not like he has to start way out at the
edge of the physical universe and travel billions of
light years until he gets to the earth. No, he can
simply enter into this universe at any point in space.
And he doesn't have to enter it all the way. He could
just reach into it with an "avatar" of a physical hand
and write something upon a wall (cf. Daniel 5:5).

After His resurrection, when Jesus had attained a
human "spiritual body" like the ones we will receive
at the resurrection of the Church (1 Corinthians
15:44), He proved that it could become physical flesh
and bones (Luke 24:39-43), and yet He also proved that
He could dematerialize it at will (Luke 24:31), just
as we can cause a two-dimensional "avatar" of ourself
to suddenly disappear from a two-dimensional computer-
world. He also proved that His "spiritual body" was
not bound by the three "lower" spatial dimensions of
our physical realm, but could move out of them into
the three "higher" spatial dimensions of the spiritual
realm and then enter back into the physical realm at
any point in space, suddenly materializing in the
flesh in the middle of a locked room (John 20:19,26).

Our "locked rooms", from the point of view of
spiritual beings, are no more inaccessible to them
than the "locked rooms" of some two-dimensional
creatures would be inaccessible to us. Two-dimensional
creatures living on a flat sheet of paper could lock
themselves in a "room" the walls and door of which
would consist of mere lines drawn on that flat sheet
of paper. So they could be surprised by someone with
access to a third spatial dimension being able to
suddenly draw themselves right in the middle of their
little "room" without having had to have gone through
the locked door.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

In Genesis 1, the Hebrew wording shows that the sun,
moon, and stars are in the firmament/expanse which
YHWH stretched out between the divided waters; so the
correct translation -without interpretation with
bias- of that passage of the Hebrew in Genesis 1
states that the waters above the firmament which were
divided from the waters below the firmamanet are
above the expanse/firmament in which the sun, moon,
and stars were set; and they were set there by Him as
signs for this present creation.

Genesis 1:6-10 simply refers to God creating the first
heaven, the sky or atmosphere of the earth, which
divides the water up in the clouds from the water
down in the seas.

Genesis 1:14-17 simply refers to God creating the
sun and moon in outer space so that they could appear
as lights in the sky of the earth.

Genesis 1:20b shows that the "firmament of heaven" is
the first heaven, the sky or atmosphere of the earth
in which the birds fly.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

To translate that the sun has a tabernacle and that
the heavens are the tabernacle for the sun is totally
non-sensical to the passage and makes no sense
whatever, and I always thought so, and then I came
to this recent understanding; which I think is a
valid conclusion of the evidence.

To translate Psalms 19:4 in the sense that God has
in the heavens figuratively set a tabernacle for the
sun makes perfect sense poetically, from the viewpoint
of man on earth, for whom the sky appears like a dome
or tent in which the sun appears to dwell.

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

God fills heaven and earth, but His particular
tabernacle is "set" like a fixture, and is called a
"fixture -which also translates to his dwelling place/
abode, in Isaiah 18:4; and for this present creation
that abode/fixture is set in the sun, which sun
itself is called a candlebra, lamp, fixture in
Genesis 1, that He set it in the firmament/expanse.

No scripture says or requires that God's dwelling
place is in the sun, for His dwelling place is not
in the second heaven, outer space, but in the third
heaven, the spiritual realm (Revelation 4:2;
2 Corinthians 12:2), which is dimensionally "above"
the second heaven with all of its 100 billion times
100 billion different little suns.

Everything that we come to believe in matters;
everything that we come to believe in has
ramifications which can begin to affect our other
beliefs in untoward ways.

To come to believe that God dwells in just one little
pinprick sun could begin to diminish Him in the minds
of some people, so that they eventually become no
better than the cultists who claim that YHWH is just
one god who lives on some little planet in some star
system in the sign of Cancer.

To come to believe that God dwells in just one little
pinprick sun could make some begin to see Him as
merely some little alien king who likes to live where
it's really hot, and who could theoretically be
defeated by a more powerful, bigger alien king who
lives in a much bigger sun, like a Red Giant sun
millions of times bigger than our little run-of-the-
mill sun.

To come to believe that God dwells in just one little
pinprick sun could cause some to begin to return to
the gross paganism whereby man worshipped the sun as
if it were God, for some men could begin to go out
and bow down before the sun as if that was where God
was, as if he were no better than a little pagan god
like Apollos or Helios, instead of the Infinite
Creator God sitting on His throne high "above" every
last one of the 100 billion times 100 billion
different little suns of the physical universe.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

By comparing Enoch's visit to the temple in his
vision of Enoch 14 his description of that temple
seems to be no other place than that which YHWH
declared was His dwelling place -"His tabernacle set
in the dazzling hot sun".

For the new creation it will be different, but for
this, He has told us where it is, and Enoch went
there.

Nothing in Enoch's vision ever says or requires that
God's heavenly temple is in our little pinprick sun,
nor does the Hebrew of any scripture every require
that; so why would anyone want to believe that?

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

There is something about the tabernacle -tent/temple
which Moses made which also relates to the heavens
and the sun, and another has picked up on that and
written about it in another place; also, when Moses
made the copies given him he made them as copies of
the things in the heavenlies, and the tent itself
seems to represent the stretching out of the heavens;
the tabernacle's Holy of Holies seems to represent
the tabernacle in the sun in which the Glory of God
was seen by Enoch; and the placement of the 12 tribes
and their ensigns around the tabernacle in the
wilderness seems to connect with the statement of
YHWH that "I formed you to plant/establish the
heavens", for Abraham was shown the stars
[=constellations], and told that "so/thus were his
seed [to come from his loins], in Genesis 15. -which
is not teaching pre-existence, but the glory laid up
for the sons who would inherit eternal life.

Actually, the Mosaic tabernacle's being a copy or
picture of the heavenlies could prove that God's
dwelling place is higher than and separated from the
dwelling place of the sun, just as the Holy of Holies
is spiritually higher than and separated from the
dwelling place of the seven lights of the menorah
in the Holy place, for the seven lights could include
reference to the seven main lights in the sky of the
earth (after which also the seven days of our week
were named by the pagans): the sun (Sunday), the
moon (Monday), the fourth planet from the sun (which
the pagans named Mars and Tiu -- Tuesday), the first
planet from the sun (which the pagans named Mercury
and Woden -- Wednesday), the fifth planet from the
sun (which the pagans named Jupiter and Thor --
Thursday), the second planet from the sun (which the
pagans named Venus and Frigga -- Friday), and the
sixth planet from the sun (which the pagans named
Saturn -- Saturday). These seven "planets", or
"wandering stars", were to the ancients the seven
most important lights of the heavenlies

And so, by the same token, if the seven lights of the
Mosaic menorah (Exodus 25:37) included reference to
God's seven lights of the heavenlies (which include
the sun), then the twelve loaves of shewbread
(Leviticus 24:5-6, Exodus 25:30), which were placed
on a table in the same room (the same "heaven") of
the tabernacle as the menorah could include reference
to the twelve constellations of the Mazzaroth (Job
38:32), which the pagans named the Zodiac.

And God's dwelling place is not in the same room (the
same "heaven") of the tabernacle as the seven lights
of the menorah and the twelve loaves of the table, but
is separated from it (Exodus 26:32-33), which
separation would represent the dimensional separation
between the third heaven, the spiritual realm where
God's throne is (Revelation 4:2; 2 Corinthians 12:2),
and the second heaven, the physical realm where the
sun and moon and five other "planets" known to the
ancients, and the stars of the Mazzeroth are.

So the seven lights which are before God's throne in
the third heaven (Revelation 4:5) could include
symbolic reference to the seven lights in the second
heaven (outer space) which appear in the first heaven
(the sky) of the earth as the seven most important
lights to men dwelling on the earth. And even though
the sun appears to men as the most important, it is in
fact still infinitely beneath God's glorious dwelling
place which is high "above" it (and all the other
100 billion times 100 billion other stars in the
second heaven), in the third heaven.

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

Enoch is shown the heavenly "luminaries and
lightnings" and is told by the angel Uriel -whose
name means light of God, that they were parabolic
meanings for those who dwell on earth and who are
righteous. Also, in the end of Enoch, those who lose
the glory laid up for them are said to have their
glory cast down -seems to be parables indeed about
the luminaries and angels and humans destined for
glory in the second birth in the New Man name, for
they are to shine as stars, and shine like the sun,
it is said in the Scriptures.

But none of this requires that God's dwelling place
is in the relatively puny little luminary we call
the sun, which could be symbolically represented by
just one of the seven little lights before God's
throne (Revelation 4:5), by just one of the seven
little lights which burned on the menorah (Exodus
25:37) in the Holy place outside of the Holy of
Holies of the Mosaic tabernacle.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

It does seem that Abraham's descendents through
Isaac -and then Jacob- to the twelve tribes, were
represented by the twelve constellations, from the
beginning of this present creation, and that the
signs in the heavens speak of God establishing the
heavens for the second creation, indeed by the 12
tribes of Israel. for Zion [as the City of God to be
established in the heavens] is the woman who is seen
as the star sign in Rev 12, crowned with the twelve
stars (stars can be constellations, also, in the
ancient original language), and she is seen as
clothed with the sun.

Actually, it could be just the opposite: just as
the heavenlies were not fashioned to represent the
Mosaic tabernacle, but vice versa (Hebrews 8:5), so
things on the earth could be fashioned by God to
represent the things in the heavenlies, so that God
made the 12 tribes/12 apostles as an earthly
representation of the heavenly 12 signs of the
Mazzaroth.

In Revelation 12:1, the woman represents the Church.
The crown of twelve stars set over her could
represent the 12 apostles whom God has set over the
Church (1 Corinthians 12:28) and its 12 tribes
(Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30, cf. Revelation 21:9b,12b).
The sun with which the Church is clothed in
Revelation 12:1 is the sun of righteousness (Malachi
4:2), just as later she is seen clothed with
righteousness (Revelation 19:8).

Regarding one's reference to "Zion [as the City of God
to be established in the heavens]", the heavenly Zion,
New Jerusalem, God's tabernacle, the Father's house,
is already established in the heavens (John 14:2,
Hebrews 12:22), and it will descend from heaven down
to the new earth so that God will live with us in New
Jerusalem down on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-3).

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

Born again in Christ believing Gentiles are joined
to Israel, which is the name of the New Man, which
name is the only name that will get the Glory, as
YHWH says in the OT, and so we who are of Christ the
Living Spirit are adopted into His New Name which He
gave to Jacob and his seed; and we are part of that
name by faith -as Abraham was; but the woman seen in
heaven is the representation of the City of God
which is being built for the second creation, and
built on the Chief Foundation Stone; which Stone is
the New Man; which New Man is the "New Thing in the
earth", which YHWH did do, as the new creation; and
He did it when YHWH clothed Himself with second
creation human being flesh [Isaiah 59], to come to
"build up Zion" of the heavenlies "to appear in His
Glory".

The woman seen in heaven in Revelation 12:1
represents the Church, which is what is still being
built (Ephesians 2:20-22), as opposed to the City of
God in heaven, which is already built (John 14:2,
Hebrews 12:22), so that the Church is being built as
a representation of the City of God in heaven, so
that the Church can be called the Bride of the Lamb
(Revelation 19:7-8) just as the literal City of God
in heaven is called the Bride of the Lamb (Revelation
21:9-14). And just as through Christ, the Creator
becomes one flesh with His image (Ephesians 5:31-32,
Genesis 1:27), and engraves the name of that image
onto Himself (Isaiah 49:16), so through Christ, the
Church, the image of the literal City of God in
heaven, comes to have the names of its 12 tribes and
apostles engraved upon the gates and foundations of
that literal city (Revelation 21:12-14).

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

All these things are delivered to the world in the
living oracles delivered to the namesake people of
the New Man name, through Moses, expounded by the
prophets, and only by studying the lessons of the
Schoolmaster will we come to understanding His plan
of them, which is delivered as those Oracles.
I'm only a babe in understanding myself, but one
thing I know is that there is nothing to be done in
the world present and to come which He has not signed
in the Law as given through Moses. Because of that
it is instructional to study His patterns of the
heavenly things, as delivered through Moses, if we
would be wise in understanding -after we come to a
personal born again in Christ relationship with Him
by His Spirit, anyway, for without knowing Him by
that "Revelation/second birth", nothing awaits us
but the darkness in the everlasting fire.

Actually, we who are in Christ Himself are no longer
under the schoolmaster of the Mosaic law (Galatians
3:24-25), with its mere types and shadows (Hebrews
10:1), but are now under only the Mastership of Christ
Himself (Matthew 23:10) and his perfect New Testament
Word (John 8:31), which is the actual body, the
express Truth (John 14:6, 1:17) of which the temporary
Mosaic law (Hebrews 7:18-19) was just a shadowy hint
(Colossians 2:17).

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

Isaiah 40:22 -the underlined words {which were:
sitteth circle earth inhabitants grasshoppers out
heavens curtain out tent in} are the original Hebrew.
He sits [in the] circle [as the depicted sun disk]
earth's inhabitants [are as] grasshoppers. He
stretcheth out the heavens as curtain and spread out
His tabernacle to dwell in.
[It is] he that sitteth6 upon the circle [as in the
ancient depiction of the sun as a disk] of the earth,
and the inhabitants6 thereof [are] as grasshoppers;
that stretcheth out6 the heavens as a curtain, and
spreadeth them out4 as a tent to dwell in:2

"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,
and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers;
that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and
spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in" (Isaiah
40:22, KJV).

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches
out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out
like a tent to dwell in" (Isaiah 40:22, NIV).

Nothing in the Hebrew of Isaiah 40:22 requires that
God sits on His throne in the (apparent) circle of
the sun in the second heaven, or that God dwells in
the (apparent) "tent" of the first heaven, the sky or
atmosphere.

In Isaiah 40:22, "the circle of the earth" is simply
referring to the surface of the earth as it appears
to people on it, with the horizon forming a circle
around them. God's sitting "upon" the circle of the
earth in the KJV simply means "above" the circle of
the earth as in the NIV, for God sits on His throne
up in the spiritual realm of the third heaven
(Revelation 4:1b-2; 2 Corinthians 12:2).

And the latter part of Isaiah 40:22 is simply
referring to how God spread out the atmosphere of the
earth (the sky, the first heaven) as a "curtain" (we
could say today as a protective curtain from cosmic
rays) and as a "tent" (we could say today as an
oxygen tent) for mankind to dwell in on the earth.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

Isa 51:16 And I have put4 my words in thy mouth, and
I have covered14 thee in the shadow of mine hand,
that I may plant2 the heavens, and lay the
foundations2 of the earth, and say2 unto Zion, Thou
[art] my people.

"And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have
covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may
plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the
earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people"
(Isaiah 51:16).

This is God the Father addressing God the Word,
through whom the heavens were planted, as in
created, and through whom the foundations of the
earth were laid, as in created (John 1:1-3, Genesis
1:1), and through whom the people of the earthly
Zion were created and then redeemed and restored
as the people of God (Hosea 2:23, Romans 9:25-26),
by His being made of the flesh of the people of the
earthly Zion (John 1:14, Romans 1:3) so that He
might die for their sins (Hebrews 2:17).

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

Isa 54:2 Enlarge54 the place of thy tent, and let
them stretch forth55 the curtains of thine
habitations: spare4 not, lengthen54 thy cords, and
strengthen16 thy stakes;

"Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch
forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not,
lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes"
(Isaiah 54:2).

Isaiah 54:1-2 (cf. Galatians 4:27) is addressing the
earthly Zion, the Church, as it partakes of the
salvation of the New Covenant and the heavenly Zion
(cf. Galatians 4:24-27).

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

Psa 68:4 Sing3 unto God, sing praises16 to his name:
extol3 him that rideth6 upon the heavens by his name
YAHH, and rejoice3 before him.

"Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him
that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and
rejoice before him" (Psalms 68:4).

God can ride upon the heavens, for example, by riding
upon a cloud in the first heaven, the sky (e.g.
Isaiah 19:1), or upon a white horse in the sky
(Revelation 19:11).

yeshuasavedme posted in message #21:

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven;
a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her
feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

clothed periballo from peri - peri 4012 and ballw -
ballo 906; to throw all around, i.e. invest (with a
palisade or with clothing):--array, cast about,
clothe(-d me), put on.

This was discussed previously. The woman in Revelation
12:1 is the Church clothed with the sun of
righteousness (Malachi 4:2), just as later the Church
is seen clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8).
The crown of 12 stars set over her could represent
the 12 apostles set over her and her 12 tribes
(1 Corinthians 12:28, Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30, cf.
Revelation 21:9b,12b).

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Bible2,
Your reasonings are corrupted by what you have been taught to believe about the creation, and by your imagination polluted by unbelief of His Word over what you think is "science" and your opinions are not formed by belief in God's plain Word.


Hbr 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers,ye have need that one teach you... the first principles of the oracles of God..

The sun, moon and stars are set beneath the waters divided from the waters on day 2 of creation, before He set the sun, moon and stars, for signs/'owth in the expanse -firmament called "heaven".

'owth
1) sign, signal
a) a distinguishing mark
b) banner
c) remembrance
d) miraculous sign
e) omen
f) warning
2) token, ensign, standard, miracle, proof

Genesis 1:6¶And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.
And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so.

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars also.

And God set them in the firmament/expanse of the heaven to give light upon the earth,And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.

There is no reason to change God's word. He set the sun, moon, and stars in the expanse below the waters above the heaven. At the flood, He opened windows in the firmament to send the waters above on the earth below.
Gen 7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Jos 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Jos 10:14
And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.
Hab 3:11
The sun [and] moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, [and] at the shining of thy glittering spear.

In Enoch we find the waters above the heavens and the waters below are "polarized" [masculine/feminine], held in place in separation by the electromagnetic forces which are called "winds" or currents" in Enoch, and the angels of the four winds in the Word are set over those forces, which are also called "spirits", in the Word.

7 And in those days shall punishment come from the Lord of Spirits, and he will open all the chambers of waters which are above the heavens, and of the fountains which are beneath the earth. 8 And all the waters shall be joined with the waters: that which is above the heavens is the masculine, 9 and the water which is beneath the earth is the feminine. And they shall destroy all who dwell 10 on the earth and those who dwell under the ends of the heaven. And when they have recognized their unrighteousness which they have wrought on the earth, then by these shall they perish.


I am not posting on this board to just to continue to argue the same old, same old, as it takes too much time, and seems fruitless, but I want to show that you are filled with opinions which make assumptions with no Scriptural foundation and use words of your own imagination, to negate the powerful statements of God's Word.

The woman in Rev 12 is Zion of the Spirit, personified, and seen as a star sign clothed with the sun crowned with the twelve stars -either as individual stars or as twelve constellations; at any rate, it will be a powerful star sign seen during the great tribulation.
And the Foundation Stone for Zion of the Spirit is the Firstborn human being Son of God, whose name is declared to be "Israel", and all who are joined to His Living Spirit are the 'Isyah/woman/wife/bride of the New Creation Man by adoption. Haggai 2 speaks of His being the Foundation Stone laid on the 24th day of the 9th month in the Hebrew calendar for the second human being temple, from whose conception date all creation is blessed, both backwards from that date and forwards to infinity. It is His incarnation as a human being to be the Foundation Stone of the second human temple that blesses all creation; and that date is now the day before the festival of Channakuh begins, and made His birth date at Tabernacles, nine months later.

YHWH says He is the Foundation Stone for the second human being temple.
But YHWH has a temple set in the sun, for this creation, which temple Moses patterned/copied.

A New thing was done in the earth; a Woman [Zion of the Spirit} compassed a man": His human being body was the New Thing in the earth, and His human being body is the Foundation Stone for the Temple of human beings for the Glory to indwell, in the regeneration of the heavens and the earth. -There is Scripture for everything I just stated, and anyone can do a search.


The adoption pertains to the namesake people of the New Man name, and Gentiles who are born again in Spirit are joined to Israel, the Son of God, and at the resurrection and or regeneration of the body receive the New Man body made in His second Man image, regenerated from the elements of the old man body that is resurrected from the dust of this creation's dust.
The old man/first man/human being flesh creation is Adam; the New Man flesh creation is Israel, and Israel is not made a living soul from the dust of the earth, but is the Living Spirit incarnate in second creation flesh, as Kinsman to Adam, to be the Redeemer of Adam; to ransom Adam's lost kingdom, restore it, and return it to the Unseen Father for the Glory to fill.

The adoption pertains first, to Israel, the seed of Jacob as the seed of Jacob, and Jacob got the name invoked over him as a sign of the adoption to come.


I like what the Word states, that God has a temple in heaven, which means in the expanse, and that He has set His temple in the sun. No need to interpret what the Hebrew plainly states, and which the Greek Septuagint also confirms.

He also plainly states in Isaiah 18:4 that
"..I will take my rest and look down [consider/scan intently] from My dwelling place, the dazzingly hot sun..."
No interpretation is needed, just honest belief in what He states.
He fills heaven and earth, and they cannot contain Him, but He has a created temple in this creation and it is set in the sun, and there is no reason to believe otherwise.
Enoch was taken into it, in Enoch 14, in his spirit while he slept, and he entered through pillars/tongues of fire, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice, and there were no delights of life therein, and fear "covered me"..."above the throne was the path of the stars"

Take it or leave it.
I'm outta here.

14...
And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in 9 the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright 10 me. And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor (made) of crystals, and its groundwork was 11 of crystal. Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were 12 fiery cherubim, and their heaven was (clear as) water.

A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its 13 portals blazed with fire.

And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there 14 were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling got hold upon me. And as I quaked 15 and trembled, I fell upon my face. And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater 16 than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to 17 you its splendour and its extent.

And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path 18 of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire.
And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels/=ophanim/angels/spirits [Ezekiel 1] thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of 19 cherubim. And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look 20 thereon. And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and 21 was whiter than any snow. None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason 22 of the magnificence and glory and no flesh could behold Him. The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times 23 ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counselor. And the most holy ones who were 24 nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him. And until then I had been prostrate on my face, trembling: and the Lord called me with His own mouth, and said to me: ' Come hither, 25 Enoch, and hear my word.' And one of the holy ones came to me and waked me, and He made me rise up and approach the door: and I bowed my face downwards.

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #27:

Your reasonings are corrupted by what you have been
taught to believe about the creation, and by your
imagination polluted by unbelief of His Word over
what you think is "science" and your opinions are not
formed by belief in God's plain Word.

What reasonings have been corrupted?

What wrong teachings about the creation is one
referring to?

What unbelief of His Word has polluted the
imagination?

What "science" is one referring to?

Which opinions have contradicted God's plain Word?

yeshuasavedme posted in message #27:

Hbr 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be
teachers,ye have need that one teach you... the
first principles of the oracles of God..

The sun, moon and stars are set beneath the waters
divided from the waters on day 2 of creation, before
He set the sun, moon and stars, for signs/'owth in
the expanse -firmament called "heaven".

Where do the oracles of God teach that the sun, moon
and stars are set beneath the waters divided from the
waters on day 2 of creation?

The firmament of heaven in Genesis 1 is the first
heaven, the atmosphere of this earth, the sky in
which the birds fly (Genesis 1:20).

The dividing of the waters in Genesis 1:6-10 simply
refers to God's creation of the atmosphere, the sky,
which divides the waters up in the rainclouds from
the waters down in the seas.

Genesis 1:14-18 simply means that God set the sun and
moon so that they would appear in the sky from the
viewpoint of earth and shine their light upon the
earth.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #27:

There is no reason to change God's word.

There is indeed no reason to change God's Word.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #27:

He set the sun, moon, and stars in the expanse below
the waters above the heaven.

God's Word never teaches that He set the sun, moon,
and stars in the expanse below the waters above the
heaven.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #27:

At the flood, He opened windows in the firmament to
send the waters above on the earth below.
Gen 7:11

Genesis 7:11 simply says "the windows of heaven were
opened", which isn't literal, but a poetic way of
expressing the suddenness of the downpour of rains
from the sky, the first heaven.

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #27:

In Enoch we find the waters above the heavens and the
waters below are "polarized" [masculine/feminine],
held in place in separation by the electromagnetic
forces which are called "winds" or currents" in Enoch,
and the angels of the four winds in the Word are set
over those forces, which are also called "spirits",
in the Word.

7 And in those days shall punishment come from the
Lord of Spirits, and he will open all the chambers of
waters which are above the heavens, and of the
fountains which are beneath the earth. 8 And all the
waters shall be joined with the waters: that which is
above the heavens is the masculine, 9 and the water
which is beneath the earth is the feminine.

God opening "all the chambers of waters which are
above the heavens" is just a poetic way of saying
that God will cause all the water in the rainclouds
which are up in the sky to come pouring down upon the
earth.

It's unclear how some water could be masculine and
other water feminine in a physical sense, even if
this is interpreted as some water physically having
a positive electric charge and other water physically
having a negative electric charge, for each molecule
of water, regardless of whether it's up in the sky or
down on the earth always consists of the same three
atoms: two hydrogen atoms covalently bonded to one
oxygen atom; and each molecule of water is always
polarized the same way: the oxygen atom in a
water molecule is always electronegative and the two
hydrogen atoms in a water molecule are always
electropositive. That's why molecules of water stick
to one another so well: the two hydrogen atoms of one
molecule are electrostatically drawn to the oxygen
atoms of neighboring molecules, a bond called a
hydrogen bond.

So the waters in the sky must be "masculine" and the
waters on the earth "feminine" not in some scientific,
physical, electric sense, for each molecule of water,
regardless of whether it's up in the clouds or down
on the earth, is both "masculine" (positive, the two
hydrogen atoms) and "feminine" (negative, the one
oxygen atom): the oxygen atom in a water molecule is
like one big female married to two little males at
the same time.

So the waters in the sky must be "masculine" and the
waters on the earth "feminine" only in some symbolic
or spiritual sense, in light of their "joining"
together in the great flood of Noah.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #27:

I want to show that you are filled with opinions
which make assumptions with no Scriptural foundation
and use words of your own imagination, to negate the
powerful statements of God's Word.

What opinions make assumptions which contradict the
scriptures?

What words of imagination is one referring to?

What powerful statements of God's Word have been
negated?

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #27:

The woman in Rev 12 is Zion of the Spirit,
personified, and seen as a star sign clothed with the
sun crowned with the twelve stars -either as
individual stars or as twelve constellations; at any
rate, it will be a powerful star sign seen during the
great tribulation.

The woman in Revelation 12 is indeed Zion of the
Spirit personified, if one defines that as the
Church/Israel. But she is not a "star sign". In
Revelation 12:1 the Church/Israel is simply seen
figuratively clothed with the sun of righteousness
(Malachi 4:2), just as later she is seen figuratively
clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8). The
crown of twelve stars set over her (Revelation 12:1b)
could simply represent the twelve apostles set over
the Church/Israel (1 Corinthians 12:28, Matthew 19:28).
Nothing requires that Revelation 12:1 is referring
to something which will be literally seen in the sky
during the tribulation.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #27:

I like what the Word states, that God has a temple in
heaven ...

God indeed has a temple in heaven (Revelation 14:17),
but not in the first heaven (the sky), and not in the
second heaven (outer space), but in the third heaven
(2 Corinthians 12:2b), the spiritual realm (Revelation
4:2).

yeshuasavedme posted in message #27:

... and that He has set His temple in the sun. No
need to interpret what the Hebrew plainly states, and
which the Greek Septuagint also confirms.

Nothing in the original Hebrew of Psalms 19:4 requires
that God has set His temple in the sun. Instead, the
context (Psalms 19:1-6) makes clear that Psalms 19:4
means simply that, from the viewpoint of man on earth,
God has figuratively set in the heavens (the sky) a
tabernacle for the sun.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #27:

He also plainly states in Isaiah 18:4 that
"..I will take my rest and look down [consider/scan
intently] from My dwelling place, the dazzingly hot
sun..."
No interpretation is needed, just honest belief in
what He states.

That translation of Isaiah 18:4 is an interpretation
of the original Hebrew. The KJV and NIV show other
ways to interpret and translate the original Hebrew,
which in itself in no way requires that God lives in
the sun, just as it in no way requires that God lives
in a cloud of dew (Isaiah 18:4).

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #27:

He has a created temple in this creation and it is
set in the sun, and there is no reason to believe
otherwise.

There is no reason to believe that God's heavenly
temple is set in one little sun, instead of high
above the entire universe with its 100 billion times
100 billion different little suns.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #27:

Enoch was taken into it, in Enoch 14, in his spirit
while he slept, and he entered through pillars/tongues
of fire, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice, and
there were no delights of life therein, and fear
"covered me"..."above the throne was the path of the
stars"

It still hasn't been shown how anything that Enoch
says requires that God's heavenly temple is set in
the sun, instead of in the third heaven
(2 Corinthians 12:2b), the spiritual realm
(Revelation 4:2).

Regarding that part of the book of Enoch's description
of the temple-building in heaven which says "above it
were lightnings and the path of the stars", this
doesn't require that the actual lightning in the sky
of the earth is above the heavenly temple-building of
God, for then the temple-building would have to be on
the earth. The "path" of the stars could refer to the
Mazzaroth (Job 38:32), which the pagans call the
Zodiac, and in which the "wandering stars" of the
planets (as well as the sun) appear to move from the
viewpoint of earth. But the path of the stars being
"above" can't mean that the actual stars of outer space
are above the throne of God, for His throne is above
the stars (Isaiah 14:13-14).

So there's another way of interpreting the following
description of the temple-building in heaven: "And its
floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and
the path of the stars, and its ceiling also was
flaming fire". This could simply record what Enoch saw
as he looked at the floor of the temple-building in
heaven, then raised his eyes above the floor ("it")
and saw lightnings and perhaps something like a
hologram of the Mazzaroth floating above the floor
within the temple-building; and then he raised his
eyes to the ceiling and saw that it was fiery.

This would make sense, for in Revelation John also
sees lightnings within the temple-building in heaven
(Revelation 4:5a), as well as seven lamps of fire
before God's throne (Revelation 4:5b), which could
represent the seven most important lights in the sky
from the viewpoint of earth (the sun, moon, and the
five planets visible to the naked eye). Enoch could
have also seen some sort of holographic projection
of the Mazzaroth surrounding those seven lamps, which
could have moved very slowly through the hologram in
synchrony with the actual location of the seven
lights from the viewpoint of earth.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Bible2, the third heaven Paul was caught up to is described in the same passage he mentions it, and it is Paradise, which we know is Zion above, where the spirits of just men made perfect dwell, since the ascension of Jesus and His taking them from Sheol beneath earth to there [as born again/made perfect in His Living Spirit, saints]. That is where all the departed righteous souls go to await the resurrection from. It is also called the "ends of heaven" in Psalm 50. It is the heaven from where Zion comes down from when the heavens and earth are regenerated. It is where Enoch saw the elders of Zion, the Watchmen who intercede for Adam kind, and Enoch longed to go to that city and was granted to do so, being translated to his garments of Glory, to dwell there with the elect angels.

Paradise is called by Paul "the third heaven", and the tabernacle set in the sun is not Paradise, for as Enoch said; "And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there 14 were no delights of life therein:"
Paradise, on the other hand, is;

1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters
2) a garden, pleasure ground
a) grove, park
3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise
4) the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world

So please, bible2, stop trying to make the one into the other when you have no biblical basis to do so.
The tabernacle itself for this creation is literally set in the sun.

Psalm 19:4 [original literal wording, without interpretation]: [He] set [His] tabernacle [in the] sun.
Psalm 18:5 Douay Rheims translation: He set His tabernacle in the sun
-a line in Isaiah 18:4 so YHWH said I will take my rest , I will scan intently/ponder [from My]dwelling place [the] dazzling hot sun

From Enoch 14...
And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in 9 the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven.

And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues[pillars] of fire: and it began to affright 10 me. And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor (made) of crystals, and its groundwork was 11 of crystal. Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were 12 fiery cherubim, and their heaven was [clear as] water. A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its 13 portals blazed with fire.
And I entered into that house, and it was

hot as fire and cold as ice: there 14 were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling got hold upon me. And as I quaked 15 and trembled, I fell upon my face. And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater 16 than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to 17 you its splendour and its extent. And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path 18 of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of 19 cherubim.

And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look 20 thereon. And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and 21 was whiter than any snow. None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason 22 of the magnificence and glory and no flesh could behold Him. The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times 23 ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counselor. And the most holy ones who were 24 nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him.

Enoch Chapter 71
1 And it came to pass after this that my spirit was translated
And it ascended into the heavens:
And I saw the holy sons of God.
They were stepping on flames of fire:
Their garments were white [and their raiment],
And their faces shone like snow.
2 And I saw two streams of fire,
And the light of that fire shone like hyacinth,
And I fell on my face before the Lord of Spirits.
3 And the angel Michael [one of the archangels] seized me by my right hand,
And lifted me up and led me forth into all the secrets,
And he showed me all the secrets of righteousness.
4 And he showed me all the secrets of the ends of the heaven,
And all the chambers of all the stars, and all the luminaries,
Whence they proceed before the face of the holy ones.
5 And he translated my spirit into the heaven of heavens,
And I saw there as it were a structure built of crystals,
And between those crystals tongues of living fire.
6 And my spirit saw the girdle which girt that house of fire,
And on its four sides were streams full of living fire,
And they girt that house.
7 And round about were Seraphin, Cherubic, and Ophannin:
And these are they who sleep not
And guard the throne of His glory.
8 And I saw angels who could not be counted,
A thousand thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand,
Encircling that house.
And Michael, and Raphael, and Gabriel, and Phanuel,
And the holy angels who are above the heavens,
Go in and out of that house.
9 And they came forth from that house,
And Michael and Gabriel, Raphael and Phanuel,
And many holy angels without number.
10 And with them the Head of Days,
His head white and pure as wool,
And His raiment indescribable.
11 And I fell on my face,
And my whole body became relaxed,
And my spirit was transfigured;
And I cried with a loud voice, . . .
with the spirit of power,
And blessed and glorified and extolled.
12 And these blessings which went forth out of my mouth were well pleasing before that Head of Days. And that Head of Days came with Michael and Gabriel, Raphael and Phanuel, thousands and ten thousands of angels without number....

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I am reading the Dead Sea Scrolls Translated, very enlightening reading indeed!

I got a bit more proof of the understanding of some ancients on the residence of God in His tabernacle which He has set in the sun, the great luminary which rules the day.

on my copy published in 1994, translated by Wilfred G.E. Watson, I found this in the hymns on page 355,
Col XX (=XII + frags. 54 + 60)
line 4
[For the Instruc]tor, praises and prayers to bow down and entreat always,
from period to period:
when the light comes from His residence;
in the positions of the day, according to the regulation,
in accordance to the laws of the great luminary;
at the return of the evening, at the departure of light,
when the realm of the shades begins; at the appointed moment of the night, in their stations;
at the return of dawn, at the moment when it withdraws to its quarters before the light;
at the departure of night when day enters; continually.

This is speaking of the praises and prayers offered to God from dawn to dawn, “when the light comes from His residence to the return of dawn“. Following in the hymns are some of the prayers and and fragments for the entire day and night period .

I have bought myself a copy of the Dead Sea Scrolls, but you can see this particular line discussed in an online book @ http://books.google.com/books?id=lc...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
Enjoy!
I didn't come to debate, just wanted to share this tidbit which re-inforces and confirms that "He hath set His tabernacle in the sun"
the Dead Sea Scrolls is a treasure house of forgotten literature of the ancient Jews with many more hymns that David the "Sweet Psalmist of Israel" composed than are found in the OT. But not even all of David's have yet been discovered and published there, however they did record that David wrote over four thousand hymns and psalms by "the spirit of prophetic utterance". They also define what he wrote them for and exactly when many were to be recited and or sung. He began writing them as a shepherd, with the spirit of prophecy, and he wrote four to sing over the possessed, which I think is interesting in light of his ministry to Saul when the evil spirit would come upon him to overtake him.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

What happens to the temple in the "supposed" sun in the wonderful Book of Enoch..(that I denounce) after Jesus comes? According to the bible we won't need the sun, so is there going to be "another temple destruction" ?
Rev 22:5 ~ And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #32:

... the third heaven Paul was caught up to is
described in the same passage he mentions it, and it
is Paradise, which we know is Zion above ...

The third heaven Paul was caught up to (2 Corinthians
12:2-7) could contain paradise (2 Corinthians 12:4),
which could be contained within the heavenly city of
New Jerusalem, for the tree of life is in paradise
(Revelation 2:7b), and the tree of life is in the
heavenly city of New Jerusalem (Revelation 22:2,14).

But the third heaven could be larger than just the
heavenly city of New Jerusalem, for the heavenly
city of New Jerusalem could descend out of the third
heaven (Revelation 21:2). The third heaven could be
the entire spiritual-realm heaven (Revelation 4:2),
which could also contain the heavenly temple of God
(Revelation 11:19, 15:5), just as the earth in the
past has contained both the earthly Jerusalem and the
earthly temple, and will do so again in the future
(Revelation 11:1-2; Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians
2:4).

yeshuasavedme posted in message #32:

Paradise is called by Paul "the third heaven", and
the tabernacle set in the sun is not Paradise, for as
Enoch said; "And I entered into that house, and it
was hot as fire and cold as ice: there 14 were no
delights of life therein:"

While the heavenly temple-building is not in the
heavenly city of New Jerusalem, for in the heavenly
city of New Jerusalem there is no temple-building
(Revelation 21:22), both the the heavenly temple-
building and the heavenly city of New Jerusalem could
reside in the same third heaven, the same spiritual
realm.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #32:

The tabernacle itself for this creation is literally
set in the sun.

Psalm 19:4 [original literal wording, without
interpretation]: [He] set [His] tabernacle [in the]
sun.
Psalm 18:5 Douay Rheims translation: He set His
tabernacle in the sun
-a line in Isaiah 18:4 so YHWH said I will take my
rest , I will scan intently/ponder [from My]dwelling
place [the] dazzling hot sun

Nothing requires that the heavenly temple of God
is in the sun. The context of Psalms 19:4 shows that
it means that God has, from the viewpoint of men on
earth, figuratively set in the heavens (the sky) a
tabernacle for the sun (Psalms 19:1-6). Isaiah 18:4
in no way requires that God lives in the sun, just
as it in no way requires that God lives in a cloud of
dew. God could live in the third heaven spiritual
realm, high above every last one of the 100 billion
times 100 billion different suns filling His vast
physical universe.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #32:

From Enoch 14...

Enoch Chapter 71 ...

Nothing in Enoch 14 or Enoch 71 says or requires that
God lives in the sun.

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #33:

I am reading the Dead Sea Scrolls Translated, very
enlightening reading indeed!

Not all of the Dead Sea Scrolls are copies of
scripture, so we mustn't accept everything they say
as being infallible.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #33:

I got a bit more proof of the understanding of some
ancients on the residence of God in His tabernacle
which He has set in the sun, the great luminary which
rules the day.

on my copy published in 1994, translated by Wilfred
G.E. Watson, I found this in the hymns on page 355,
Col XX (=XII + frags. 54 + 60)
line 4
[For the Instruc]tor, praises and prayers to bow down
and entreat always,
from period to period:
when the light comes from His residence;
in the positions of the day, according to the regulation,
in accordance to the laws of the great luminary;
at the return of the evening, at the departure of light,
when the realm of the shades begins; at the appointed
moment of the night, in their stations;
at the return of dawn, at the moment when it withdraws
to its quarters before the light;
at the departure of night when day enters; continually.

This is speaking of the praises and prayers offered to
God from dawn to dawn, "when the light comes from His
residence to the return of dawn".

Even that non-scriptural "hymn" may not be claiming
that God lives in the sun, for in the original
language there may be no capital "H" in "His
residence"; it could simply say "his residence", as
in the sun's residence, which is the sky. At dawn,
light comes from the sky.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

.

There are no capitals in the original language.

Psalm 19:4 in the Septuagint and the Hebrew texts state [18:5 in the Duoay-Rheims] "He set His tabernacle in the sun". Douay Rheims translates it to the English as it should be; "He set His tabernacle in the sun".
Then, Isaiah 18:4, in the Hebrew states "I [will take My] rest and consider [look down from/scan intently from] My dwelling place, the dazzling hot sun".

Dead Sea Scrolls published in 1994, translated by Wilfred G.E. Watson, I found this in the hymns on page 355,
Col XX (=XII + frags. 54 + 60)
line 4
[For the Instruc]tor, praises and prayers to bow down and entreat always,
from period to period:
when the light comes from His residence;
in the positions of the day, according to the regulation,
in accordance to the laws of the great luminary;
at the return of the evening, at the departure of light,
when the realm of the shades begins; at the appointed moment of the night, in their stations;
at the return of dawn, at the moment when it withdraws to its quarters before the light;
at the departure of night when day enters; continually.

This is speaking of the praises and prayers offered to God from dawn to dawn, “when the light comes from His residence to the return of dawn“.

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #37:

Psalm 19:4 in the Septuagint and the Hebrew texts
state [18:5 in the Duoay-Rheims] "He set His
tabernacle in the sun".

Nothing in the original Hebrew of Psalms 19:4b
requires the translation "He set His tabernacle in
the sun". The original Hebrew, like the context
(Psalms 19:1-6), supports the translation "In them
[the heavens] hath he set a tabernacle for the sun".

yeshuasavedme posted in message #37:

Isaiah 18:4, in the Hebrew states "I [will take My]
rest and consider [look down from/scan intently from]
My dwelling place, the dazzling hot sun".

Nothing in the original Hebrew of Isaiah 18:4
requires that God' dwelling place is in the sun, just
nothing in the original Hebrew of Isaiah 18:4
requires that God's dwelling place is in a cloud of
dew.

God's dwelling place is high above the sun and all of
the other 100 billion times 100 billion other stars
in his vast universe, for God's dwelling place is in
the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2b), the spiritual
realm (Revelation 4:2).

So let us not diminish the Infinite Almighty God,
Creator of the entire Universe, so that he becomes no
better than some little local solar god like Apollo
or Helios. Let us not take a step back toward paganism.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #37:

Dead Sea Scrolls published in 1994, translated by
Wilfred G.E. Watson, I found this in the hymns on
page 355,
Col XX (=XII + frags. 54 + 60)
line 4
[For the Instruc]tor, praises and prayers to bow down
and entreat always,
from period to period:
when the light comes from His residence;
in the positions of the day, according to the
regulation,
in accordance to the laws of the great luminary;
at the return of the evening, at the departure of
light,
when the realm of the shades begins; at the appointed
moment of the night, in their stations;
at the return of dawn, at the moment when it
withdraws to its quarters before the light;
at the departure of night when day enters;
continually.

This is speaking of the praises and prayers offered
to God from dawn to dawn, "when the light comes from
His residence to the return of dawn".

Let us not turn to non-scriptural "hymns" as if they
are infallible. And even this hymn may have been
translated incorrectly, adding a capital "H" to "his
residence" as if it must be referring to God's
residence instead of the residence of the "great
luminary", the sun. The residence of the sun is the
sky, from the which the first light comes at the
return of dawn.

And who knows if this "hymn" wasn't written by people
such as those in Ezekiel 8:16 and Deuteronomy 17:3?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

God's dwelling place is high above the sun and all of
the other 100 billion times 100 billion other stars
in his vast universe, for God's dwelling place is in
the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2b), the spiritual
realm (Revelation 4:2).

Psa 11:4 The LORD [is] in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne [is] in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.


ATTENTION BIBLE2: the third heaven is Paradise, as Paul so states in 2 Corinthians. Paradise is not the created Temple which is set in the created sun and in which there are "no delights/pleasures of life therein", as Enoch so states in Enoch 14, when He was taken to that temple before that throne in heaven. Enoch later saw the City of God in heaven, which is the Paradise Paul was taken up to.
`````````
Guess I have to pop in once in awhile to show Bible2's posts are made without understanding of the matter as God has stated it in His word, for nothing in all Bible2's posts on the subject leads one to believe he has any understanding of the literal words God uses when He speaks of His own created temple set in the created sun, which God calls His own "dwelling place", as my previous posts do state.
~~~~
What does this have to do with Eschatology, though? Nothing but that in the last days all those signs in the sun seen below will be in part those things John saw in Revelation concerning the sun.
It was just a fun discovery of mine that I wanted to share with those who would be interested in doing their own studies to see if these things be so. Bible2 has no interest in seeing if these things be so, as he uses his own reasonings to deny the possibility of God stating what He means and meaning what He says, on the subject.

But-
God heeded Joshua, and the sun and moon stood still, in heaven. Bible2 cannot explain that without denying the thruth of the Word of God.
The stars in their courses fought against Sisera, but Bible2, according to his above beliefs, could never believe that fact about the stars in their courses fighting against Sisera.

Jos 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Jos 10:14And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

Hab 3:11 The sun [and] moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, [and] at the shining of thy glittering spear.

Jdg 5:19The kings came [and] fought, then fought the kings of Canaan in Taanach by the waters of Megiddo; they took no gain of money.
Jdg 5:20They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
From God's created temple set in the created sun, His created angels who stand before the created throne come out, at the time of the bowl and trumpet judgments, during the tribulation:


Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, [and] so great.



Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

~~~~
Since there are angels who can appear as pillars of fire, are those "angels of Light", then? and are those the angels standing before the LORD in His temple set in the sun, then?

1 Enoch
[Chapter 71]
1 And it came to pass after this that my spirit was translated
And it ascended into the heavens:
And I saw the holy sons of God.
They were stepping on flames of fire:
Their garments were white [and their raiment],
And their faces shone like snow.
2 And I saw two streams of fire,
And the light of that fire shone like hyacinth,
And I fell on my face before the Lord of Spirits.
3 And the angel Michael [one of the archangels] seized me by my right hand,
And lifted me up and led me forth into all the secrets,
And he showed me all the secrets of righteousness.
4 And he showed me all the secrets of the ends of the heaven,
And all the chambers of all the stars, and all the luminaries,
Whence they proceed before the face of the holy ones.
5 And he translated my spirit into the heaven of heavens,
And I saw there as it were a structure built of crystals,
And between those crystals tongues of living fire.
6 And my spirit saw the girdle which girt that house of fire,
And on its four sides were streams full of living fire,
And they girt that house.
7 And round about were Seraphin, Cherubic, and Ophannin:
And these are they who sleep not
And guard the throne of His glory.
8 And I saw angels who could not be counted,
A thousand thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand,
Encircling that house.
And Michael, and Raphael, and Gabriel, and Phanuel,
And the holy angels who are above the heavens,
Go in and out of that house.
9 And they came forth from that house,
And Michael and Gabriel, Raphael and Phanuel,
And many holy angels without number.
10 And with them the Head of Days,
His head white and pure as wool,
And His raiment indescribable.
11 And I fell on my face,
And my whole body became relaxed,
And my spirit was transfigured;
And I cried with a loud voice, . . .

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #39:

... the third heaven is Paradise

Nothing requires that the third heaven contains only
paradise, and nothing else. Paradise is located
within New Jerusalem, for paradise is the location of
the tree of life (Revelation 2:7), and New Jerusalem
is the location of the tree of life (Revelation
22:2,14). Therefore, the third heaven contains New
Jerusalem. And if the third heaven contains New
Jerusalem, it could surely contain the heavenly temple
as well, just as the earth has contained both the
earthly Jerusalem and the earthly temple.

Also, New Jerusalem is the Father's house (Revelation
21:2-3, cf. John 14:2), his own dwelling place. Now if
the Father's house, his own dwelling place, is in the
third heaven, surely his heavenly temple would also be
in the third heaven, the spiritual realm (Revelation
4:2), high above the entire physical universe with all
of its 100 billion times 100 billion different suns.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #39:

God heeded Joshua, and the sun and moon stood still,
in heaven...

The fact that God made the sun and moon stand still
in the sky (Joshua 10:13) doesn't require that God
lives in the sun, just as it doesn't require that God
lives in the moon. God could control the entire
universe, every last star, from his throne in the
third heaven, high above the entire universe.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #39:

[Revelation 16:17-18, 11:19, 14:17, 15:5, 19:17;
1 Enoch 71]

Nothing in Revelation 16:17-18, 11:19, 14:17, 15:5,
19:17, or 1 Enoch 71 says or requires that God's
heavenly temple isn't in the third heaven, high above
the entire universe.