The Created Temple of God, Which is in the Created Heavens

[yeshuasavedme]

Back for just a moment here, folks. I'm having a lot of fun while my internet is disconnected (I'm at the library to post today, and I only have a few minutes), and want to share a tidbit for those of you who are interested in these things. This may need to go in a different forum.....

In 1 Enoch 14, when Enoch has the vision of entering into the temple of God in heaven, He goes in to a most fantastic place (can't quote it at the moment, no time), in which there were no delights of life, but which was surrounded by tongues of fire, and built of Crystal, with the path of the stars above. Please read the passage to see what Enoch said. Also, in another part of Enoch He speaks of that crystal house of God (which has an inner house where the created throne in the created temple in the created heaven sits). Then, after reading that passage, check out the RC version of the OT, Psalm 18:5 (which is Psalm 19, 4, in the KJV).

It says; "He set His tabernacle (temple) in the sun".
That place Enoch went into had no delights of life, and it is not the place where the City of God is, where angels eat Manna and the ancients pray for the sons of men in intercession, and where Enoch longed to go and where He was translated to the garment of Glory and allowed to go.

Now, where is that city of God?????

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

In 1 Enoch 14, when Enoch has the vision of entering into the temple of God in heaven

I may read thru Enoch again soon but the visions he sees is not much different than that of Ezekiel, Daniel and Reveatlion. I much prefer to continue studying/translating the 66 books of the Canon we have now. I did read some of that chapter:

http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/thebookofenoch.htm

Enoch 14:15 And lo! there was a second house, greater
16 than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to
17 you its splendour and its extent. And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path


Revelation 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of Elohim.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Douay-Rheims Psalm 18:
"He hath set his tabernacle in the sun: and he, as a bridegroom coming out of his bride chamber, Hath rejoiced as a giant to run the way: 7 His going out is from the end of heaven, And his circuit even to the end thereof: and there is no one that can hide himself from his heat."

The ancients who worshipped the sun gave glory to the wrong place. The God of Glory as seen in Enoch (who is come in flesh as the Son of Man) seems for all the world to have His created temple in the created heavens in the sun.

1 Enoch 14, from ccel.org;
And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in 9 the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright 10 me. And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor (made) of crystals, and its groundwork was 11 of crystal. Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were 12 fiery cherubim, and their heaven was (clear as) water. A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its 13 portals blazed with fire. And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there 14 were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling got hold upon me. And as I quaked 15 and trembled, I fell upon my face. And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater 16 than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to 17 you its splendour and its extent. And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path 18 of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of 19 cherubim. And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look 20 thereon. And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and 21 was whiter than any snow. None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason 22 of the magnificence and glory and no flesh could behold Him. The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times 23 ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counselor. And the most holy ones who were 24 nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him. And until then I had been prostrate on my face, trembling: and the Lord called me with His own mouth, and said to me: ' Come hither, 25 Enoch, and hear my word.' And one of the holy ones came to me and waked me, and He made me rise up and approach the door: and I bowed my face downwards.

Later, in 1 Enoch, he again describes that temple.

It is fascinating that rock crystal refracts light. The "tessalated crystal" walls of the temple Enoch visited in the vision is "cut crystal".

Of course there is the "ishyah" (Hebrew for "woman" in Rev 12, seen as the star sign, and is clothed with the sun, and who is a representation of the "ishyah" of the second "Isyh": Adam is first created human being "'isyh", and the ishyah he called "Eve"; Jesus Christ is second "Isyh" of earth, as YHWH come in second man human being flesh, and His wife/bride is the "Ishyah" who "hides" for the great tribulation and who is not seen while the earth has it's darkest night ever -the Ishyah is the Church, all of saved Israel/Jacob's seed, and Gentiles who are saved.
There is also an angel seen standing in the sun, in Revelation, and then, there is the fact that the sun was not made until day four, yet light was made on day one.
If the sun refracts the light which was made on day one, and itself is the mighty light set in the heaven on day four for that purpose, then when God asked Job: "Do you know the place where light dwells", of course Job did not, for light does not dwell in the sun, but gathers it and refracts it.

Library computer -can't edit, back later to clear this up.
Edit accomplished.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Hmmm....

...not sure what to make of it...but it might explain some symbolism...

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

I may read thru Enoch again soon but the visions he sees is not much different than that of Ezekiel, Daniel and Reveatlion. I much prefer to continue studying/translating the 66 books of the Canon we have now. I did read some of that chapter:

I will never read the book of Enoch. The way I see it, if Enoch was supposed to have been studied, it would be in the bible we currently have...with all of the 66 other books of the bible. Enoch is only listed in the begats, he lived 365 years, he prophacied of the return of Christ with 10,000 of his saints, and Enoch walked with God, and God took him. Not a lot said about Enoch for some strange reason. God in his infinite wisdom wouldn't have left a book out of the bible..like WHOOPS, missed one

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I will never read the book of Enoch. The way I see it, if Enoch was supposed to have been studied, it would be in the bible we currently have...with all of the 66 other books of the bible. Enoch is only listed in the begats, he lived 365 years, he prophacied of the return of Christ with 10,000 of his saints, and Enoch walked with God, and God took him. Not a lot said about Enoch for some strange reason. God in his infinite wisdom wouldn't have left a book out of the bible..like WHOOPS, missed one

Nana,
Are you aware that there are at least 4 Bibles? There are at least four Bible canons.

Protestant
Catholic
Jewish
Ethiopian Christian http://gbgm-umc.org/UMW/BIBLE/ethold.stm


And NO, God in his infinite wisdom wouldn't have left a book out of the Bible. BUT, man in his infinite pride and stupidity, would have left a book out of the Bible for any number of reasons.

Enoch was probably removed or left out because it speaks of heavenly things...things which even the Jesus said the Jewish leaders of His day could not understand:

Jhn 3:12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?


Enoch is meat, not milk. Among other things, it speaks of what happened in the spiritual world when angels had children with women. This is something that Christian leaders even today, try to deny. Enoch probably offended the Puritanical mindset and so they left it out.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hmmm....

...not sure what to make of it...but it might explain some symbolism...

As I ponder it, it makes so much symbolism come to life that I am staggered!

This is for Little Lamb and Jen:
Another verse of Scripture I discovered to support this is Isaiah 18:4.
The highlighted words are the Hebrew original -to English- words.

Isaiah 18:4

For so the LORD said1 unto me, I will take my rest,4 and I will consider55 in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs,

Clear is dazzling
heat is hot
herbs is sun (light, luminary, etc)
So YHWH said, "I will take my rest and scan intently/look down/consider from my dwelling place (a fixture, habitation, abode), the dazzling hot sun."


Enoch describes the temple in heaven to where he was taken in the vision as crystal -below, above and beside- surrounded by flames of fire through which he had to go through to enter the first temple and the inner temple.

Enoch never says "I went into the sun", but the Psalmist states that "He set His tabernacle in the sun", as I previously pasted, and Isaiah reports YHWH as stating His dwelling place (the created temple in the created heaven) as being the "Dazzling hot sun".

Enoch states that the circumference of the sun and the circumference of the moon are equal. So for all the scientists' calling the circumference of the sun so great (826,000 miles or so), they miss the true science of the true core of the sun and what the purpose for it is and how it functions. Enoch states that the sun transfers light, so the sun and the moon are fixtures (like a chandelier, lamp, menorah: Genesis, day four) made, and set in the heaven to transfer the light made on day one. The sun transfers light in differing portions and gives a seventh of it to the moon, according to Enoch.

In Enoch, another passage describes that temple, and flames and crystal figure prominently in it:

[Chapter 71]
1 And it came to pass after this that my spirit was translated
And it ascended into the heavens:
And I saw the holy sons of God.
They were stepping on flames of fire:
Their garments were white [and their raiment],
And their faces shone like snow.
2 And I saw two streams of fire,
And the light of that fire shone like hyacinth,
And I fell on my face before the Lord of Spirits.
3 And the angel Michael [one of the archangels] seized me by my right hand,
And lifted me up and led me forth into all the secrets,
And he showed me all the secrets of righteousness.
4 And he showed me all the secrets of the ends of the heaven,
And all the chambers of all the stars, and all the luminaries,
Whence they proceed before the face of the holy ones.
5 And he translated my spirit into the heaven of heavens,
And I saw there as it were a structure built of crystals,
And between those crystals tongues of living fire.
6 And my spirit saw the girdle which girt that house of fire,
And on its four sides were streams full of living fire,
And they girt that house.
7 And round about were Seraphin, Cherubic, and Ophannin:
And these are they who sleep not
And guard the throne of His glory.
8 And I saw angels who could not be counted,
A thousand thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand,
Encircling that house.
And Michael, and Raphael, and Gabriel, and Phanuel,
And the holy angels who are above the heavens,
Go in and out of that house.
9 And they came forth from that house,
And Michael and Gabriel, Raphael and Phanuel,
And many holy angels without number.
10 And with them the Head of Days,
His head white and pure as wool,
And His raiment indescribable.

John has crystal and flames in his description, also.
King James Version: Revelation Chapter 4



5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal:


Enoch 78:
These are the two great luminaries: their circumference is like the circumference of the 4 heaven, and the size of the circumference of both is alike. In the circumference of the sun there are seven portions of light which are added to it more than to the moon, and in definite measures it is s transferred till the seventh portion of the sun is exhausted.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Wow!

That's a lot to take in...I mean the implications...no wonder occultic belief systems sometimes involve worship of the sun which, if your studies are correct, would be worship of the sun (dwelling place) as a god, instead of worship of God.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Wow!

That's a lot to take in...I mean the implications...no wonder occultic belief systems sometimes involve worship of the sun which, if your studies are correct, would be worship of the sun (dwelling place) as a god, instead of worship of God.

On excerts from early Christian writings @ http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/theodotus.html I find that Theodotus was ruminating on what the Word meant when it stated-
56. "And in the sun hath He set His tabernacle."
I think he is wrong in his surmisings, but the interesting thing is that the early Church had the Greek Septuagint and it seems that it also translated that Psalm line as "He hath set His tabernacle in the sun"
-the same early Church writer also refers to Enoch's book and teachings, BTW.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Enoch 78:
These are the two great luminaries: their circumference is like the circumference of the 4 heaven, and the size of the circumference of both is alike. In the circumference of the sun there are seven portions of light which are added to it more than to the moon, and in definite measures it is s transferred till the seventh portion of the sun is exhausted.

Greetings and that is interesting. So the sun and moon in Genesis are the same size but it is the Lighting of them that is different, correct?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Gene 1:15 And they become for luminaries in firmanent of the heavens, to give light on the Land. And he is becoming so.
16 And 'Elohiym is making two of the luminaries, the Great ones. The luminary, the great, for ruling of the Day, and the luminary, the small, for ruling the Night and the Stars.

http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

01419 gadowl {gaw-dole'} or (shortened) gadol {gaw-dole'}
from 01431; TWOT - 315d;
AV - great 397, high 22, greater 19, loud 9, greatest 9, elder 8,

06996 qatan {kaw-tawn'} or qaton {kaw-tone'}
from 06962; TWOT - 2009a,2009b; adj
AV - small 33, little 19, youngest 15, younger 14, least 10, less 3,

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Greetings and that is interesting. So the sun and moon in Genesis are the same size but it is the Lighting of them that is different, correct?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Gene 1:15 And they become for luminaries in firmanent of the heavens, to give light on the Land. And he is becoming so.
16 And 'Elohiym is making two of the luminaries, the Great ones. The luminary, the great, for ruling of the Day, and the luminary, the small, for ruling the Night and the Stars.

http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

01419 gadowl {gaw-dole'} or (shortened) gadol {gaw-dole'}
from 01431; TWOT - 315d;
AV - great 397, high 22, greater 19, loud 9, greatest 9, elder 8,

06996 qatan {kaw-tawn'} or qaton {kaw-tone'}
from 06962; TWOT - 2009a,2009b; adj
AV - small 33, little 19, youngest 15, younger 14, least 10, less 3,

That's what Enoch says. The greater candelabra/fixture/lamp rules the day and the lesser one rules the night. Same size, different materials, too.
The properties of Rock Crystal are amazing, as I found in the book I am reading called "the Crystal Sun" which is written by a non-Christian, Robert Temple, but it is a book about the science of the ancients in their use of optics and light.
Enoch describes the temple walls, floor, and ceiling of crystal, surrounded by tongues/pillars of fire: the walls of tessalated -cut- crystal, John speaks of the crystal sea mingled with fire. Enoch and John were in the same scene, but Enoch is most vividly describing it.
The moon is not of the same material.

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #3:

Douay-Rheims Psalm 18:
"He hath set his tabernacle in the sun: and he, as a
bridegroom coming out of his bride chamber, Hath
rejoiced as a giant to run the way: 7 His going out
is from the end of heaven, And his circuit even to
the end thereof: and there is no one that can hide
himself from his heat."

That translation isn't required by the original
Hebrew. Instead of God living inside the sun and a
hot God running across the sky every day, it's more
likely that the sun is the hot object that crosses
the sky every day, and that God has in the sky (the
heavens) set a tabernacle for the sun:

"In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which
is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and
rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going
forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit
unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from
the heat thereof" (Psalms 19:4b-6).

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #7:

Isaiah 18:4

For so the LORD said1 unto me, I will take my rest,4
and I will consider55 in my dwelling place like a
clear heat upon herbs,

Clear is dazzling
heat is hot
herbs is sun (light, luminary, etc)
So YHWH said, "I will take my rest and scan intently/
look down/consider from my dwelling place (a fixture,
habitation, abode), the dazzling hot sun."

"For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest,
and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear
heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat
of harvest" (Isaiah 18:4).

This is clearly a couple of similes, not to be taken
literally. Just as God doesn't literally live in a
cloud of dew in the heat of harvest, so nothing
requires that God literally lives in a clear heat
upon herbs. The Hebrew word translated as "herbs"
can simply mean "morning", as in sunrise, as it
does in Nehemiah 8:3, so that Isaiah 18:4 is
referring to God's sovereignty, His ability to make
it hot at sunrise when it's supposed to be cool at
sunrise, and to make it cloudy and dewy at the time
of harvest when it's supposed to be hot and dry at
the time of harvest.

This is in accord with the following verse, Isaiah
18:5, which shows God's sovereign power to do with
things whatever He wants instead of letting them take
their natural course. He can even (metaphorically)
destroy what would have been a harvest for man to eat
by pruning the ripening plants and casting their
branches to the birds and animals to feed on instead
(Isaiah 18:5-6).

yeshuasavedme posted in message #7:

Enoch describes the temple in heaven to where he was
taken in the vision as crystal -below, above and
beside- surrounded by flames of fire through which he
had to go through to enter the first temple and the
inner temple.

If the vision of heaven described in the book called
by the name of Enoch is true, it still wouldn't
require that God lives in the sun, for flames of fire
can exist outside of the sun, and not even be from
the sun. For example, the flames or tongues of fire
which came upon the apostles at Pentecost (Acts 2:3)
didn't have to be little solar flares which had been
shot out by the sun, burned through the roof, and
then hovered above the heads of the apostles. Flames
of fire can be spiritual, just as angels are flames
of fire (Hebrews 1:7) and God Himself is a fire
(Hebrews 12:29).

So the fire in heaven (e.g. Revelation 15:2, 8:5)
could be not the fire of the sun, but some spiritual
substance or even some spiritual entities (e.g.
Revelation 4:5b).

 

[yeshuasavedme]

That translation isn't required by the original
Hebrew. ...

It is a plain, unadulaterated, unmessed with, not added to, unbiased translation.
Untranslated, the Hebrew in that line reads "set tabernacle sun". By a search of the matter I discovered that there were ancient Believers who understood the line to read, "He set His tabernacle in the sun", as their writings show. Theodotus, using the Septuagint, wrote of that line and made comments on it, in the second or third century, also another writer did, but I will have to find who that was, I forgot; nevertheless, unbelievers have discarded the clear statement of the Word of God because they cannot accept it, but that does not change what God said.
"He set His tabernacle in the Sun".

There is, in the Word, a created temple in the created heavens, from which YHWH comes down, looks down, and from where all things are seen.
From the portion of His light that shone on Egypt, He covered it with sackcloth, so to speak, and Egypt had darkness so thick that no one moved from his place for three days, yet He continued to light Goshen, the area where His namesake people dwelt.

Another time, Joshua commanded the sun and mood to stand still, and they stood still in the heavens for "36 moments" of the day, as the Book of Jasher records "Behold, is it not written in the Book of Jasher".

 

[yeshuasavedme]

"For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest,
and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear
heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat
of harvest" (Isaiah 18:4).

This is clearly a couple of similes, not to be taken
literally. Just as God doesn't literally live in a
cloud of dew in the heat of harvest, so nothing
requires that God literally lives in a clear heat
upon herbs. The Hebrew word translated as "herbs"
can simply mean "morning", as in sunrise, as it
does in Nehemiah 8:3, so that Isaiah 18:4 is
referring to God's sovereignty, His ability to make
it hot at sunrise when it's supposed to be cool at
sunrise, and to make it cloudy and dewy at the time
of harvest when it's supposed to be hot and dry at
the time of harvest.

This is in accord with the following verse, Isaiah
18:5, which shows God's sovereign power to do with
things whatever He wants instead of letting them take
their natural course. He can even (metaphorically)
destroy what would have been a harvest for man to eat
by pruning the ripening plants and casting their
branches to the birds and animals to feed on instead
(Isaiah 18:5-6).



If the vision of heaven described in the book called
by the name of Enoch is true, it still wouldn't
require that God lives in the sun, for flames of fire
can exist outside of the sun, and not even be from
the sun. For example, the flames or tongues of fire
which came upon the apostles at Pentecost (Acts 2:3)
didn't have to be little solar flares which had been
shot out by the sun, burned through the roof, and
then hovered above the heads of the apostles. Flames
of fire can be spiritual, just as angels are flames
of fire (Hebrews 1:7) and God Himself is a fire
(Hebrews 12:29).

So the fire in heaven (e.g. Revelation 15:2, 8:5)
could be not the fire of the sun, but some spiritual
substance or even some spiritual entities (e.g.
Revelation 4:5b).

Your getting blinded by your opinion and reasoning and not looking at what YHWH said, in Isaiah 18:4, the Hebrew words are "So YHWH said rest/repose consider/scan intently/look [down dwelling place dazzingly hot sun.
The translation unbiased and unmessed with is So YHWH said, I will repose and look down/scan intently from My dwelling place, the dazzingl hot sun.

He is speaking of His created temple in His created heavens.
You didn't read Enoch's report of the visit to the heavenly temple and inner temple which I posted, so your comments on pillars or tongues of fire have no connection to the matter at hand.
John saw the with a crystal 'sea' mingled with fire, when he was in the same place as Enoch was pre-incarnation and resurrection, in John's vision, post incarnation and resurrection, of the Son of God.

 

[Iosias]

The Temple and the Church's Mission: A Biblical Theology of the Dwelling Place of God by G. K. Beale

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The Temple and the Church's Mission: A Biblical Theology of the Dwelling Place of God by G. K. Beale

Greetings,
The link you gave is to buy a book which has doctrines which do not relate to the theme of this thread.
In God's Word, there is a created temple in the created heavens, and that created temple is not the Person of Jesus Christ.
This thread is speaking of the biblical doctrine of the created temple which is in the created heaven and where the Great Glory -God the Word- sat, from the beginning, on His throne, and had audience with His creation, from.

There is a created temple in the created heaven, and the Great Glory who was seen on the throne sitting there, when Enoch was taken to that temple and to the inner temple of it, in his vision, is the Person of God the Word who is now come in flesh of second human being creation, and by that coming, is "Emmanuel".

Jesus, as YHWH come in the second creation human being flesh Man, ascended to that temple at His ascension, and sat down on "My Father's throne". He isn't sitting on Himself, and so your book is out of context to where Jesus is sitting on His Father's throne, at.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

In John 12:37-41, John tells us that YHWH seen, , in Isaiah 6, sitting on His throne in His temple in heaven, and seen by Isaiah, was Jesus Christ, again, it is a literal throne in a literal temple in the literal created heavens, and He isn't sitting on Himself.
.


In the year that king Uzziah died I saw4 also the Lord sitting6 upon a throne, high6 and lifted up,12 and his train filled 853 the temple.

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #14:

Originally Posted by Bible2:

That translation isn't required by the original
Hebrew. ...

It is a plain, unadulaterated, unmessed with, not
added to, unbiased translation.

All of that could be true, and yet it still could be
a mistranslation in that it misses the intent of the
original Hebrew. There's no proof that "He hath set
his tabernacle in the sun" is what was intended by
the original Hebrew of Psalms 19:4b.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #14:

Untranslated, the Hebrew in that line reads "set
tabernacle sun".

But that still wouldn't require the translation "He
hath set his tabernacle in the sun", for the context
shows that the Hebrew is talking about God
figuratively setting in the heavens (the sky) a
tabernacle for the sun:

"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the
firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day
uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth
knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where
their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out
through all the earth, and their words to the end of
the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the
sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his
chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and
his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing
hid from the heat thereof" (Psalms 19:1-6).

This is a perfectly valid translation of the Hebrew,
and "In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun"
is much more in line with the context both preceding
and following that statement.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #14:

By a search of the matter I discovered that there
were ancient Believers who understood the line to
read, "He set His tabernacle in the sun", as their
writings show. Theodotus, using the Septuagint, wrote
of that line and made comments on it, in the second
or third century, also another writer did, but I will
have to find who that was, I forgot; nevertheless,
unbelievers have discarded the clear statement of the
Word of God because they cannot accept it, but that
does not change what God said.
"He set His tabernacle in the Sun".

Just because one finds some writers who agree with
a certain translation doesn't mean that those writers
or that translation are correct. One has to look at
the original Hebrew and its context to see what is
the most likely intending meaning of the Hebrew.

And one can't suddenly jump from a few writers'
opinions to claiming that those opinions are somehow
proof of the "clear statements of the Word of God".
There's no logical connection between the two.

Nothing requires that God ever intended the original
Hebrew of Psalms 19:4b to be understood or translated
as "He hath set his tabernacle in the sun".

yeshuasavedme posted in message #14:

There is, in the Word, a created temple in the
created heavens, from which YHWH comes down, looks
down, and from where all things are seen.

There is indeed a created temple in the created
heavens (e.g. Revelation 15:8), but it's in the
third heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2b), the spiritual
realm where God's throne is (Revelation 4:2), not the
second heaven, outer space, filled with 100 billion
times 100 billion different suns (cf. Genesis 15:5).

Also, it must be noted that God's created heavenly
tabernacle isn't the same as His created heavenly
temple, for His created heavenly tabernacle is the
created heavenly city of New Jerusalem (Revelation
21:2-3), in which there is no created temple
(Revelation 21:22).

yeshuasavedme posted in message #14:

From the portion of His light that shone on Egypt,
He covered it with sackcloth, so to speak, and Egypt
had darkness so thick that no one moved from his
place for three days, yet He continued to light
Goshen, the area where His namesake people dwelt.

Exodus 10:22 could simply refer to God causing a
thick sandstorm in Egypt which blocked out the light
from the sun for three days.

All Exodus 10:23b says is that the children of Israel
had light "in their dwellings", which could simply
mean that God didn't let the wind from the sandstorm
blow out the lamps in their houses, as He could have
caused it to blow out all the lamps in the houses of
the Egyptians.

Nothing in Exodus 10:22-23 teaches or requires that
God lives in the sun.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #14:

Another time, Joshua commanded the sun and mood to
stand still, and they stood still in the heavens for
"36 moments" of the day, as the Book of Jasher
records "Behold, is it not written in the Book of
Jasher".

The sun and moon appearing to stand still in the sky
for about a whole day (Joshua 10:13) was a great
miracle, but still nothing about it teaches or
requires that God lives in the sun.

Why would anyone want to think that God lives in the
sun instead of above the entire universe in His own
created spiritual realm of the third heaven?

 

[Bible2]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #15:

Originally Posted by Bible2 [in message #13:]
[Context of quotes restored]

yeshuasavedme posted in message #7:

Isaiah 18:4

For so the LORD said1 unto me, I will take my rest,4
and I will consider55 in my dwelling place like a
clear heat upon herbs,

Clear is dazzling
heat is hot
herbs is sun (light, luminary, etc)
So YHWH said, "I will take my rest and scan intently/
look down/consider from my dwelling place (a fixture,
habitation, abode), the dazzling hot sun."

"For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest,
and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear
heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat
of harvest" (Isaiah 18:4).

This is clearly a couple of similes, not to be taken
literally. Just as God doesn't literally live in a
cloud of dew in the heat of harvest, so nothing
requires that God literally lives in a clear heat
upon herbs. The Hebrew word translated as "herbs"
can simply mean "morning", as in sunrise, as it
does in Nehemiah 8:3, so that Isaiah 18:4 is
referring to God's sovereignty, His ability to make
it hot at sunrise when it's supposed to be cool at
sunrise, and to make it cloudy and dewy at the time
of harvest when it's supposed to be hot and dry at
the time of harvest.

This is in accord with the following verse, Isaiah
18:5, which shows God's sovereign power to do with
things whatever He wants instead of letting them take
their natural course. He can even (metaphorically)
destroy what would have been a harvest for man to eat
by pruning the ripening plants and casting their
branches to the birds and animals to feed on instead
(Isaiah 18:5-6).

yeshuasavedme posted in message #7:

Enoch describes the temple in heaven to where he was
taken in the vision as crystal -below, above and
beside- surrounded by flames of fire through which he
had to go through to enter the first temple and the
inner temple.

If the vision of heaven described in the book called
by the name of Enoch is true, it still wouldn't
require that God lives in the sun, for flames of fire
can exist outside of the sun, and not even be from
the sun. For example, the flames or tongues of fire
which came upon the apostles at Pentecost (Acts 2:3)
didn't have to be little solar flares which had been
shot out by the sun, burned through the roof, and
then hovered above the heads of the apostles. Flames
of fire can be spiritual, just as angels are flames
of fire (Hebrews 1:7) and God Himself is a fire
(Hebrews 12:29).

So the fire in heaven (e.g. Revelation 15:2, 8:5)
could be not the fire of the sun, but some spiritual
substance or even some spiritual entities (e.g.
Revelation 4:5b).

Your getting blinded by your opinion and reasoning
and not looking at what YHWH said, in Isaiah 18:4,
the Hebrew words are "So YHWH said rest/repose
consider/scan intently/look [down dwelling place
dazzingly hot sun.
The translation unbiased and unmessed with is So
YHWH said, I will repose and look down/scan intently
from My dwelling place, the dazzingl hot sun.

Actually, nothing in the original Hebrew of Isaiah
18:4 requires that a translation "from My dwelling
place, the dazzingly hot sun" is the intended
meaning, no matter how unbiased the translator or
how much he doesn't want to mess with the Hebrew,
for one can be unbiased and not want to mess with
the Hebrew and still make the wrong choice of how to
translate it, as in translating it in a way that
God never intended it to be understood or translated.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #15:

He is speaking of His created temple in His created
heavens.

Yes, when God refers to His dwelling place in Isaiah
18:4 He is referring to His created temple in His
created third heaven (Revelation 7:15), the spiritual
realm (Revelation 4:2), or He is referring to His
created tabernacle in His created third heaven, which
created tabernacle is the created city of New
Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2-3), in which there is no
created temple (Revelation 21:22).

Either way, nothing in the Bible requires that God's
dwelling place is in the sun.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #15:

You didn't read Enoch's report of the visit to the
heavenly temple and inner temple which I posted, so
your comments on pillars or tongues of fire have no
connection to the matter at hand.

Actually, any reference to pillars or tongues of fire
would have been in line with the following:

yeshuasavedme posted in message #11:

Enoch describes the temple walls, floor, and ceiling
of crystal, surrounded by tongues/pillars of fire ...

So either someone forged message #11, someone whose
reference to pillars or tongues of fire has no
connection to the matter at hand, or in fact pillars
or tongues of fire do have some connection to the
matter at hand, which is the false idea that a
heavenly temple of God surrounded by fire has to be
in the fiery sun instead of high above the entire
universe (with all of its 100 billion times 100
billion different fiery suns) in its own spiritual
realm, the third heaven.

yeshuasavedme posted in message #15:

John saw the with a crystal 'sea' mingled with fire,
when he was in the same place as Enoch was pre-
incarnation and resurrection, in John's vision, post
incarnation and resurrection, of the Son of God.

Yes, before God's throne in the third heaven there
is "a sea of glass like unto crystal" (Revelation
4:6), "as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire"
(Revelation 15:2). But this in no way teaches or
requires that God lives in the sun.

Why would anyone want to believe that?

 

[garry2]

Well there is to much here for me to follow, but what I did read , I'm with YSM.