The Colorado Springs Quandary

[Landon Caeli]

It doesn't really matter honestly. The importance is not in his gender specifically but that his gender identity ends the whole "it's all Christians fault" rhetoric. It at least should.

That's really the only point that matters where his gender is concerned.

A Christian here once told me that homosexuals "ought to be slapped upside the head". He got likes from that.

...So I'm not so sure what to think sometimes.

Typically, I don't have the backs of other Christians or Catholics. Don't count on me for that. But I will protect the faith.

 

[Brihaha]

Murderers don't get fair treatment from me. Retribution is a real thing.

I certainly agree with your sentiment here. But dehumanizing human beings is not something Jesus would do. He would condemn their behavior as sinful but not call them it. I think I am tired of hearing it from my friend and your comment reminds me of his distasteful remarks. I just call it out now. No big deal really. I can skip reading posts like that I suppose. Peace

 

[Bradskii]

I'm not racist. So you can remove me from the list. It's good to know you'll blame the ant-white rhetoric.

It's inbuilt. We all are to a greater or lesser degree. It's subconscious in a lot of people - not overt. But it's there as an evolutionary requirement. At least it was. It helps to know that fact as then you can guard against the automatic and subconscious tendencies that we all have.

 

[Bradskii]

Why does that matter? Can't a person just decide what they are at anytime? You know there is always a first time you say it.

Don't be so naive. The hate crime charge will be in addition to the murder charge. If his lawyer can claim that he is gay there might be an argument that it couldn't have been a hate crime. If he is gay, then that might be the case. But if he has just started claiming it then you'd have to be pretty gullible to think it wasn't an attempt to avoid the charge.

 

[Bradskii]

Except this guy. You see a reason to not agree with him right a way even if it is important to him. Cause, reasons.

Again, if it was important to him, then back then I would call him whatever he wanted. If he just doing this to avoid a hate crime charge then I could care less. And what I'd call him now is not for public consumption.

 

[rjs330]

It's inbuilt. We all are to a greater or lesser degree. It's subconscious in a lot of people - not overt. But it's there as an evolutionary requirement. At least it was. It helps to know that fact as then you can guard against the automatic and subconscious tendencies that we all have.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I don't have any racist tendencies, conscious, subconscious, or automatic. You are welcome to have yours if you wish.

 

[Bradskii]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I don't have any racist tendencies, conscious, subconscious, or automatic. You are welcome to have yours if you wish.

First up, we're not talking about overt racism - 'I don't like the Chinese, Arabs are dirty' etc. Secondly, a subconscious tendency actually means one that's below the level at which you can consciously perceive it. But there are experiments and tests that show them. And more examples that you'll possibly have time to assimilate.

And thirdly, you might actually be the first person without any inherrent tendancies and certainly the first to consciously be aware of what your subconscious does.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Gosh, I dunno. Maybe we could check to see if he asked people to use different pronouns previously. And check that this might be the first time. Whaddya think?

Why would that matter?

You got people going into prison realizing their women for the first time....and getting sent to women's prison.


There's no time frame this sort of claim has to be made in.

You honestly are completely clueless about what you've been arguing over all this time, aren't you?

Oh yeah. Look, lots of people say things I don't agree with. I don't think you make much sense to be honest - just my personal opinion, no offence meant. But I support your right to say anything you want. I consider it very instructive.

The guy was fired for breaking a court order. He preferred to make some sort of stand. He paid the price. His call. I support his right to do so. Maybe he could decide what to call his cellmates if they insisted. I doubt if he'd think it was worth another stand.

And people can call themselves whatever they want and I see no reason not to agree with them if it's important to them. Your mileage may vary. Hey, who am I kidding...

Nobody, you aren't kidding anyone.

I know exactly how seriously to take your posts on this topic in the future.

 

[Ana the Ist]

He's been canceled from the LGBTQ community and no longer gets non-binary treatment.

...We can call it a he now. Or whatever popular tweets say.

Excommunicated from the cult.

I'm told that the term cult is vitriolic but honestly, as you can see....it fits like a glove.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The guy killed several people and you’re here feigning concern about him being misgendered to make some strange and ultimately pointless swipe at people who try to respect pronouns and gender ID?

Pretty low, Ana. Pretty freaking low, I must say.

What does his status as a criminal have to do with anything?


People in prison are changing gender every day and getting sent to women's prison (never the other way around oddly).

I don't see any reason not to discuss it. You can say I've politicized a tragedy but frankly, CNN and MSNBC beat me to the punch. Save your shame for someone who cares about your opinion of them.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You are being disingenuous still. Initially, your comment was "The reaction on the left wasn't to proceed with caution....but instead, they doubled down by bringing drag queens to school and schoolchildren to strip clubs. " Then you defended the use of strip club with "Any performance where the "entertainer" or "performer" removes clothing can be called a stripper (one need not be nude) any club that hires such performers can be called a strip club (again, it need not be nude)."
"Strip club" means a place where clothing is removed completely for the sexual excitement of customer. To pretend otherwise is what is disingenuous. It is against the law in all 50 states to take a child into such a place. Creating your own definition doesn't make it true.

Again, you're arguing semantics.

Now, feel free to explain that the important detail is that these things didn't happen in a "strip club".

I'll explain which one of us is being disingenuous.

Fair?

Actually, Epstein was not mentioned much in the stuff I read. But I don't suggest anyone read that junk. It has sucked in a lot of people.

You've read actual Qanon posts?

But now you are bringing up childhood education? Move goal posts much? Are there school trips to strip clubs?

Now I'm bringing up childhood education?

Read the OP.

What do you think the term groomer referred to?

That was an amazingly ridiculous statement. I didn't once imply RAINN got their information from *snip*

Then why are you bringing up Qanon?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Making "it"? Be specific with your accusations at least. Like what are the curricular objectives as presented foe consideration.

Curriculum is factual.

There's been a long time where arguments for "abstinence only" education was in fashion. The reality is that fact based sexual education won out in the majority of locations.

Typically not before middle school, and for many....not until high school.

"We don't hear about a push for heterosexual education"? What kind of absurdity is that? The entire sex Ed curriculum is based on heterosexuality.....

Based on facts.

And even through that there are still gay kids.
Sex education has been proven to;
Lower the number of abortions
Lower teem pregnancy
Increase teen health
Decrease # of stis

Well I don't think we have to worry about pregnancy. Does the advice for protection against stds also work for gay children?

I just never here reasonable and rational fact based discussions.

Is that what you think is occurring in 1st grade?

Reasonable fact based discussion?

That's why I dont care much foe the criticism. If I hear criticism that was worthy of consideration I'd give it such.

Here's a criticism....

Almost everything they want to teach children is theory based, much of it contrary to facts.

Unfortunately, to give that consideration you'd have to understand it.

Yes. He's an extra fighter, ex inappropriate content star. Upon hearing that is son killed for people in club q his first response was "oh ####. He's not gay is he? Cause im a conservative Republican"....and further along said"oh yeah. I taught him to use violence early on. I told him it always gets results"

Uh huh....well perhaps he'll change his gender too and you'll have to find someone else to blame.

I'm not sure he's not partly to blame but I'm more informed on this matter than you.

Lol

hilarious.

I know the thought of a white male committing a crime may be hard to stomach but it's true.

I was talking about the dad.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

There are a couple of unique dynamics at play here with this story.

When these shootings occur, people attempt to attribute motive to some indirect causal link based on something the other side did or said.

Some people attribute it to "anti-Gay sentiment stirred up" by a K-3 public school policy passed a thousand miles away
Some people attribute it to overall backlash to the concept of "groomers" (which claims in that regard span the spectrum of "eyeroll <-> credible")

However, based on this article, it sounds like the shooter's troubles started much earlier than any public backlash over "child-friendly" drag shows, or any sort of public discourse about a bill prohibiting sex subjects k-3.

-Troubled childhood (due to divorce and constant moving)
-Parents with drug issues
-Their own drug issues
-History of mental illness and making violent threats
-Father admitted he voiced strong disapproval of gay people all throughout the shooter's childhood

I think that people missing the forest for the trees (or at worst, trying to use a tragedy for a self-serving political purpose) if they're trying to make this about "predictable backlash over something the other side did" or claiming that "this policy from a governor we don't like emboldened them to do it"

In the case of this shooter, it seems as if all the "kindling" was there for this sort of erratic behavior to occur, regardless of anything that's happened with the "hostile politics" in the past 3 years.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Excommunicated from the cult.

I'm told that the term cult is vitriolic but honestly, as you can see....it fits like a glove.

Excommunicated might fit by some definitions, but cult doesn't because of a lack of religiosity.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

What does his status as a criminal have to do with anything?


People in prison are changing gender every day and getting sent to women's prison (never the other way around oddly).

I don't see any reason not to discuss it. You can say I've politicized a tragedy but frankly, CNN and MSNBC beat me to the punch. Save your shame for someone who cares about your opinion of them.

No I’ll keep shaming you when I see you post something you should be ashamed of. Thanks anyway for the suggestion.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Again, you're arguing semantics.

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Now, feel free to explain that the important detail is that these things didn't happen in a "strip club".

I'll explain which one of us is being disingenuous.

Fair?

That isn't a "strip club." It is some kind of event and I see parents there. I personally disapprove of that but there is a lot of things going on in the world I disapprove of that parents do. But it isn't a strip club. Is the drag queen getting naked? No . Drag queens don't do that because it would ruin the presentation they want to have.

As I said, lots of parents do things I do not approve. I don't blame it on one party though. My heavy dope using brother allowed his kid to take tokes of his joint and would offer to the grandchildren when they were under 12 - and he is a die hard Republican and major MAGA believer.

But now you are bringing up childhood education? Move goal posts much? Are there school trips to strip clubs?

Now I'm bringing up childhood education?

Yeah, you did in in post #28. Perhaps you didn't mean to.


Why did I bring up Q, which I did in post #2 before you ever mentioned RAINN?
I will simply say that I brought up Qanon because the theory is about Democrats as pedophiles and that they drink the blood of babies. All that spin about Dems and grooming (cause of the pedophila thing) is related to that crazy theory. "Groomer" is being used as a dog whistle to that conspiracy theory.
Then you used 'strip club' in a hyperbolic way.

 

[rjs330]

First up, we're not talking about overt racism - 'I don't like the Chinese, Arabs are dirty' etc. Secondly, a subconscious tendency actually means one that's below the level at which you can consciously perceive it. But there are experiments and tests that show them. And more examples that you'll possibly have time to assimilate.

And thirdly, you might actually be the first person without any inherrent tendancies and certainly the first to consciously be aware of what your subconscious does.

Love being unique. And if you have no idea what your subconscious does how can you possibly know that it has subconscious racism?

 

[rjs330]

No I’ll keep shaming you when I see you post something you should be ashamed of. Thanks anyway for the suggestion.

Funny you didn't shame those who jumped immeduately into the blaming of Christians for the acts of a guy who had a terrible childhood, terrible father, was know to have violent tendencies, drug problems and mental health issues. Oh no let's jump immediately to it's all the Christians fault. You ought to have shamed all of them instead. They were the real culprits who deserved it here.

Shame on you.

 

[MehGuy]

Hmm. I don't know much about the case admittedly, but I don't see much reason why he'd want to avoid the hate crime charges by announcing himself as "non-binary". He'll be rotting in prison or given the death penalty (depending on where he lives) regardless. The threat of a hate crime charge seems pretty trivial and pointless. In group hatred is a real thing, and the LGBT+ is no exception. It's not out of the realms of possibility that he's a member of the LGBT+ who has some weird beef with other members of the LGBT+ community.

Humans are complex, and sometimes their motivations don't always align to the narrative leftists or rightest want or expect.

I do think it's best to avoid sexualizing issues with children as much as possible, I am skeptical of how much this is actually going on in leftist circles. The bar I have is somewhat higher than the idea that telling your classmates that your partner is the same sex is somehow "grooming" them. Like every other group, there are bad apples and I'm sure some incidents we see coming from the left merit's discussion and worry, but at the same time you can point the same to some on the right who view no problem taking children to an establishment like hooters for example.

 

[Bradskii]

Why would that matter?

I find it difficult to believe that at least two people see no problem with it. That, assuming it's just happened, it can be put down as just a coincidence.

Wanna buy a bridge?