The Colorado Springs Quandary

rambot

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Why would you hate to point that out? Of course they are....

If they had the gall to suggest making it a part of children's education in public school starting in 1st grade....I'd be against that as well.
Making "it"? Be specific with your accusations at least. Like what are the curricular objectives as presented foe consideration.
I'm not supposed to use the word "cult" here....but the whole reason that we don't hear about a push for heterosexual early childhood sex education is they don't have a "group" of "people" who all "think alike" protecting them from any sort of criticism.
"We don't hear about a push for heterosexual education"? What kind of absurdity is that? The entire sex Ed curriculum is based on heterosexuality.....
And even through that there are still gay kids.
Sex education has been proven to;
Lower the number of abortions
Lower teem pregnancy
Increase teen health
Decrease # of stis


There is however, such a group of people, who refuse to acknowledge any criticism of the LGBT community as valid so they've been more successful at getting away with this.
I just never here reasonable and rational fact based discussions. That's why I dont care much foe the criticism. If I hear criticism that was worthy of consideration I'd give it such.
Nope....didn't see any interview with the "dad". Whose dad are we talking about? The shooter? Is he the one who is going to take the blame for this shooting?


I mean, without actually seeing the interview, would it be inappropriate to guess that's he's....

1. White.
2. Male (in the classical sense, he was born with a penis)
3. Heterosexual
???
Yes. He's an extra fighter, ex inappropriate content star. Upon hearing that is son killed for people in club q his first response was "oh ####. He's not gay is he? Cause im a conservative Republican"....and further along said"oh yeah. I taught him to use violence early on. I told him it always gets results"
I know this is a wild guess, but if the "group of people who think exactly the same" on the left intends to blame anyone, my guess is that this guy has to fit the profile of who it's appropriate to blame for everything these days.
I'm not sure he's not partly to blame but I'm more informed on this matter than you.

I know the thought of a white male committing a crime may be hard to stomach but it's true.
 
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rambot

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Comon man. It's you guys that make the big fuss over people questioning someone's motivation for gender requests. That's what this is about. How dare we question such a thing. People can be whatever they want we are told. How dare we question that. We must accept it immediately. But now you want to question it?

The fuss has always been you guys telling us we can't say anythingz even about criminals prison. Now you want to?
I think that says something.
It's just so rare I've seen a solid understanding of what gender means.
 
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Landon Caeli

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The shooter's pronouns are "they/them". You are misgendering this person and being transphobic. You are participating in the erasure of non-binary people lol.

Since you blame everyone who is derogatory towards this community....are you blaming yourself as well? You were told what their correct pronouns are in the OP.

He's been canceled from the LGBTQ community and no longer gets non-binary treatment.

...We can call it a he now. Or whatever popular tweets say.
 
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rjs330

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I'll be blaming everyone who is derogatory to gay people. And those who want to use a get-out-of-jail card by claiming some thug was himself gay will find it's no longer valid.

I sure you will. You immediately jumped on that bandwagon as soon as the shooting happened. Why would you change now.

Just wondering if you are going to to the same thing when a black guy shoots some white people. Are you going to blame all the anti-white rhetoric for that? How we are all racists and prejudiced.

Somehow I doubt it. It's just that they Christians are great punching bags.
 
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rjs330

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It's just so rare I've seen a solid understanding of what gender means.

Bingo, I think you've hit on the problem today. The left has assigned so many different meanings to it and altered it's original meaning so much that it has now become meaningless.

Unless of course you want it to mean woman so as a male you can participate in women's sports, go to a woman's prison or use the women's locker room and showers.
 
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Bradskii

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I sure you will. You immediately jumped on that bandwagon as soon as the shooting happened. Why would you change now.

Just wondering if you are going to to the same thing when a black guy shoots some white people. Are you going to blame all the anti-white rhetoric for that? How we are all racists and prejudiced.
We indeed are.

And if anyone spouts any nonsense that causes people to be hurt and even killed then they'll get the same treatment. I'm an equal opportunity kind of guy. I don't care who is causing the problem. They'll get my opinion whether they like it or not.

And just jumped on the bandwagon? I've been riding that thing for decades.
 
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Ana the Ist

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You are being VERY disingenuous here!
A strip club is a place (nightclub) where performers take their clothing off in a sexually exciting manner. Check the dictionaries.

If it was simply a performer taking off any clothing then many TV shows in the family hour or earlier are strip shows.
No need to be hyperbolic!
I'm pointing out that the argument that you're making here is semantic and ridiculous. It doesn't matter if the place is one that has performers stripping nude every night or a nightclub that occasionally has performers dance around and strip....

Neither is a venue for children.



So you know nothing of Q and the pedophile accusations?
I've read very little about Qanon and most of that related to Epstein. The term groomer doesn't appear to be related to Qanon in any way and related to the controversy around childhood public education.


Your attempt to link the two appears to be little more than a cheap smear tactic. Surely you aren't suggesting that an organization like RAINN which has dedicated itself to preventing child sexual abuse and helping survivors of child sexual abuse gets their info from Qanon? Of course not. Why not address the fact that experts consider exposing children to sexual materials and discussing sexual topics is a common child grooming tactic with negative effects on children?




No. Many on the left do not buy into it. I won't be rude about it though.

The Left is far more diverse than the right.
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "I won't be rude about it"?

At some point you may well be asked (or required) to address someone non-binary by the pronouns they choose. Will you do so and lie to them or tell them what you believe is true?

I'm aware that many on the left are lying about what they believe....I simply don't understand why. If the left is so diverse and accommodating to different beliefs....why would so many people lie?

I know a great deal about grooming as I had involvement with Child Protective Services with my job and have attended many a conference on child abuse and neglect. I have been learning about this for decades.

Their are pundits on the right who are careless in how they talk about the Left and grooming. Take a harder look at the right, and conservatives and child sexual abuse. It is shocking.
If the Right is suggesting that my tax dollars fund the sexualizing and grooming of schoolchildren I certainly haven't heard anything about it.

If you know something that I don't....please share.

If this is just an attempt at whataboutism regarding the church or Boy Scouts Of America or something...I can't imagine why that would justify abuse in your mind.

What I do know comes from actual school curriculums, victims and their parents, whistleblowers in education, leaked conversations between educators, and the activists pushing for this stuff.

The people fighting it are extremely diverse and cover the spectrum of political ideology, sexual orientation, gender identity, educational background, and religious beliefs. The only group I don't see represented at all are pedophiles.




In actual cults, yes, sexualizing children is common and disgusting. But you are playing games with the term above and sexualization. According to you, any performance where a clothing item is removed is a strip performance. Is that also sexualizing a child?
Are you asking me if having child performers stripping for a nightclub is "sexualizing a child"?

Obviously context matters. I wouldn't call a child changing in a gym locker room for a swimming competition "stripping". Again, you seem to want to engage in some sort of semantic argument that I'm not going to waste time with.



How about this - at 1:22:



So was Milton Berle sexualizing kids?

How about this - Jerry Lewis starts off in boxers and a T shirt, then go to 1:40:

It's from the 1950s - was it sexualizing kids?

Be careful throwing the word cult around.

Didn't watch the videos and I doubt they have anything to do with the topic. Unless they are black and white as a cinemagraphic choice....they haven't been relevant to the topic for over 50 years.


Again, I understand that the term cult is not a great choice. I'm willing to concede that point. I don't know what term would be more accurate though and a sufficient replacement.

You seem willing to lie to a non-binary person about your beliefs for the fear of being "rude". At some point though, I would think that the truth would matter more to you than being considered "rude" right? Does that point exist? Can you describe it? Imagine your job had an opportunity for a coworker to lead a project and you got to vote for the coworker who gets this opportunity. The votes are tallied and as the last person to vote....you will ultimately decide which of two coworkers gets this lucrative and resume enhancing opportunity. You have a choice between....

1. The candidate who appears to be far more capable and competent than the other, but unlike you, chooses to say what he believes is true....and doesn't care about the pronouns of non-binary coworkers.

2. A candidate who seems far less capable but like you....uses the pronouns of non-binary coworkers as they wish.

The pronoun issue has nothing to do with the work or the job opportunity....and has only been brought up to you at the last minute. Those who voted for #2 claim it's bigotry, and claim a vote for #1 is supporting a bigot. Those who already voted for #1 claim they didn't know about the pronoun issue...and cannot change their vote anyway.


Who would you choose?
 
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Ana the Ist

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Yeah....sometimes I find such blatantly hypocritical arguments amusing.

Anyway, that's his solicitor's claim.
Their solicitor?

Do you mean their lawyer? I don't know what solicitor refers to in this case.

If you mean lawyer....what does that have to do with anything? Lawyers don't want their clients making statements directly to the public or press.



If it's genuine then he might get off the additional charge of a hate crime.

If it's genuine?

How does one tell a genuine claim from a fake one?

Did you not understand the problem with suggesting that such claims can be faked? There's no method for proving any such claims....there never has been any method for proving such claims.


Activists, advocates, and anyone who promotes the "affirmative care model" will tell you all claims of gender identity are to be accepted as the truth.


Although specifically targetting gay people would seem to me to fulfill the necessary criteria, whether he is gay himself or not.
Maybe he just didn't like nightclubs and he was familiar with that one.



But he can call himself anything he wants, as can anyone else. What I would call him wouldn't be allowed in this forum.

I didn't realize you were such a free speech advocate. I could have sworn there was a teacher fired recently because they didn't use certain pronouns and the freedom you're now asserting is something that you argued against previously.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'm questioning the attorneys claim that the shooter is nonbinary. The shooter hasn't made any statements one way or the other about his gender since the shooting. Prior to the shooting he did refer to himself as a boy and his mother used the pronouns he/him to identify her son just hours before the shooting.

He may have realized that he was non-binary just before he pulled the trigger.

There's never been any requirements of proof for making any such claims. If he gets convicted and sentenced to life in a federal prison for example....he could then realize he's a woman and be transferred to the women's prison.

That's how the affirmative care model works....that's what is the standard for public schools, public hospitals, gender clinics, and federal prisons.

This is one of the first changes Biden made when he took office.

I don't want you to think I'm picking on you here @JosephZ....but everyone on here that has been on one side of the trans discussion for the past couple of years that has posted on this thread seem to be struggling to understand what position they have been arguing for this entire time.


You know how someone can claim that they were discriminated against for being a homosexual?


We don't ask that person to prove they are a homosexual....how could they even do that?


Well the left has been essentially arguing that gender identity should be treated the same way. The left has been arguing that we should just accept these claims.....and asking for some sort of proof is insulting and bigoted. This person's gender identity can change in any way at any time.
 
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I'm pointing out that the argument that you're making here is semantic and ridiculous. It doesn't matter if the place is one that has performers stripping nude every night or a nightclub that occasionally has performers dance around and strip....

Neither is a venue for children.
You are being disingenuous still. Initially, your comment was "The reaction on the left wasn't to proceed with caution....but instead, they doubled down by bringing drag queens to school and schoolchildren to strip clubs. " Then you defended the use of strip club with "Any performance where the "entertainer" or "performer" removes clothing can be called a stripper (one need not be nude) any club that hires such performers can be called a strip club (again, it need not be nude)."
"Strip club" means a place where clothing is removed completely for the sexual excitement of customer. To pretend otherwise is what is disingenuous. It is against the law in all 50 states to take a child into such a place. Creating your own definition doesn't make it true.
I've read very little about Qanon and most of that related to Epstein. The term groomer doesn't appear to be related to Qanon in any way and related to the controversy around childhood public education.
Actually, Epstein was not mentioned much in the stuff I read. But I don't suggest anyone read that junk. It has sucked in a lot of people.

But now you are bringing up childhood education? Move goal posts much? Are there school trips to strip clubs?
:doh:

Your attempt to link the two appears to be little more than a cheap smear tactic. Surely you aren't suggesting that an organization like RAINN which has dedicated itself to preventing child sexual abuse and helping survivors of child sexual abuse gets their info from Qanon? Of course not. Why not address the fact that experts consider expising children to sexual materials and discussing sexual topics is a common child grooming tactic with negative effects on children?
That was an amazingly ridiculous statement. I didn't once imply RAINN got their information from Qanon.
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "I won't be rude about it"?

At some point you may well be asked (or required) to address someone non-binary by the pronouns they choose. Will you do so and lie to them or tell them what you believe is true?

I'm aware that many on the left are lying about what they believe....I simply don't understand why. If the left is so diverse and accommodating to different beliefs....why would so many people lie?


If the Right is suggesting that my tax dollars fund the sexualizing and grooming of schoolchildren I certainly haven't heard anything about it.

If you know something that I don't....please share.

If this is just an attempt at whataboutism regarding the church or Boy Scouts Of America or something...I can't imagine why that would justify abuse in your mind.
As I didn't even mention the Boy Scouts, I have to think you are playing games.

IF you bother to read what I am writing and paying the least bit of attention, you would figure out I do not approve of abuse, and have worked DECADES against it

READ THAT AGAIN ANA THE FIRST.

I have worked DECADES (since the 1970s) against it, and have counseled the poor victims of sexual abuse. The youngest was a first grader who told me that what she hated the most about her step father was giving him head. Ever counsel a child who was raped? Or a child sold to a man in trade for a place to stay? Or a child who was prostituted out to other men and had inappropriate content pictures taken? Sadly, I have.

Now, because it is some political cause, you suddenly care about it and want to accuse me of justifying abuse? Is that what you are doing? How pathetic if that is so.
Edit to add that I am glad folks care to fight against pedophilia, I just hope they stick to reality and not make stuff up like they did in the 80s.

WHAT I know of child abuse comes from the children, from the doctors that diagnosis, from attending conferences and learning from the victims, and other professionals.
And as I also did the "sex ed" talk for some elementary schools and the HIV talks for every grade, I know how 99% of schools handle it. I can't speak for charter schools.


I wouldn't mind an intelligent conversation at some point, but not now because of the following ignorant questions that are in the rest of the post. Example:
" Are you asking me if having child performers stripping for a nightclub is "sexualizing a child"?"


You should have watched the videos. Better yet, read some Shakespeare, like A Midsummer Night's Dream, and keep in mind that in his day, all the performers were male. I don't think seeing men dressed as women, switching back and forth, sexualized any children.
 
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Bradskii

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Did you not understand the problem with suggesting that such claims can be faked? There's no method for proving any such claims....there never has been any method for proving such claims.
Gosh, I dunno. Maybe we could check to see if he asked people to use different pronouns previously. And check that this might be the first time. Whaddya think?
I didn't realize you were such a free speech advocate.

Oh yeah. Look, lots of people say things I don't agree with. I don't think you make much sense to be honest - just my personal opinion, no offence meant. But I support your right to say anything you want. I consider it very instructive.
I could have sworn there was a teacher fired recently because they didn't use certain pronouns and the freedom you're now asserting is something that you argued against previously.
The guy was fired for breaking a court order. He preferred to make some sort of stand. He paid the price. His call. I support his right to do so. Maybe he could decide what to call his cellmates if they insisted. I doubt if he'd think it was worth another stand.

And people can call themselves whatever they want and I see no reason not to agree with them if it's important to them. Your mileage may vary. Hey, who am I kidding...
 
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rjs330

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We indeed are.

And if anyone spouts any nonsense that causes people to be hurt and even killed then they'll get the same treatment. I'm an equal opportunity kind of guy. I don't care who is causing the problem. They'll get my opinion whether they like it or not.

And just jumped on the bandwagon? I've been riding that thing for decades.

I'm not racist. So you can remove me from the list. It's good to know you'll blame the ant-white rhetoric.
 
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rjs330

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Gosh, I dunno. Maybe we could check to see if he asked people to use different pronouns previously. And check that this might be the first time. Whaddya think?

Why does that matter? Can't a person just decide what they are at anytime? You know there is always a first time you say it. According to you guys they have always been that way even if they didn't claim it for years and we are not allowed to question it.

If he says he is who are you to question it? Maybe he just felt bad about it and didn't want to say it before. And now you want to further harm him by questioning his claim?

You guys have painted yourselves into a corner now.

Is it only because he is a bad guy?

A person could be gay for years and never say a thing or even act on it until one day they finally do. And you guys would claim we have no right to question it. Same goes for trans. They could be trans for years and years and never say anything or act out. But the moment they do we must accept it immediately. That's YOUR SIDES CLAIM. Now you have seemingly changed your mind.

There are apparently arbitrary rules as to when you are allowed to claim such a thing and be immediately believed.
 
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rjs330

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And people can call themselves whatever they want and I see no reason not to agree with them if it's important to them. Your mileage may vary. Hey, who am I kidding...

Except this guy. You see a reason to not agree with him right a way even if it is important to him. Cause, reasons.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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The guy killed several people and you’re here feigning concern about him being misgendered to make some strange and ultimately pointless swipe at people who try to respect pronouns and gender ID?

Pretty low, Ana. Pretty freaking low, I must say.
 

Landon Caeli

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The guy killed several people and you’re here feigning concern about him being misgendered to make some strange and ultimately pointless swipe at people who try to respect pronouns and gender ID?

Pretty low, Ana. Pretty freaking low, I must say.

Yeah, who cares if he's misgendered at this point.
 
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He's been canceled from the LGBTQ community and no longer gets non-binary treatment.

...We can call it a he now. Or whatever popular tweets say.
It? That is dehumanizing him or them. I hear people say that but I can't abide hearing it. Just FYI. Peace
 
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rjs330

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Yeah, who cares if he's misgendered at this point.

It doesn't really matter honestly. The importance is not in his gender specifically but that his gender identity ends the whole "it's all Christians fault" rhetoric. It at least should.

That's really the only point that matters where his gender is concerned.
 
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It? That is dehumanizing him or them. I hear people say that but I can't abide hearing it. Just FYI. Peace

Murderers don't get fair treatment from me. Retribution is a real thing.
 
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