The 'coercive bargain' theory of Christianity.

[Lost Witness]

Trinity means 3.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit = 1 God, 3 persons.
All 3 of the Godhead are throughout scripture

Doesn't change the fact that the term "holy trinity" isn't in scripture.
Regardless as to what either HOLY or Trinity means.

 

[Lost Witness]

To the best of my knowledge, Christians are not required to believe everything all other Christians may believe. In fact, a certain degree of scepticism and critical thinking is required to distinguish the true from the false. Nowhere, it seems to me, is this more important than in matters of religion, where our damnation or salvation is said to depend on our decisions.

Best wishes, Strivax.

You can't believe in Christ if you don't believe in the ONE who sent him,
Who we learn about in the OT,
Can't have the son without the father or the father without the son because none come to the father without the son and none can know the son without the father because they are one and the same.
Scripture is how we learn who GOD the father is, in the same way it's how we learn of who christ is

 

[Astrid]

It's wise to spank a child,
Proverbs 23:13 - “Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.”
Proverbs 22:15 - “Foolishness is bound in the heart of the child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.”
Proverbs 13:24 - “Those who spare the rod hate their children, but those who love them are diligent to discipline them.”

Stoning people to death is most wise too!

 

[Strivax]

You can't believe in Christ if you don't believe in the ONE who sent him,
Who we learn about in the OT,
Can't have the son without the father or the father without the son because none come to the father without the son and none can know the son without the father because they are one and the same.
Scripture is how we learn who GOD the father is, in the same way it's how we learn of who christ is

Who said (it certainly wasn't me!) that I do not believe in Christ? As for the OT, I think it's main relevance is to set the context within which Jesus wrought His paradigm shift on humanity.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[YahuahSaves]

To the best of my knowledge, Christians are not required to believe everything all other Christians may believe. In fact, a certain degree of scepticism and critical thinking is required to distinguish the true from the false. Nowhere, it seems to me, is this more important than in matters of religion, where our damnation or salvation is said to depend on our decisions.

Best wishes, Strivax.

Up to you, but I prefer not to take any chances.

2 Timothy 3:16

16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.

2 Peter 1:20-21

20 Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet’s own understanding,[a] 21 or from human initiative. No, those prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit, and they spoke from God.

 

[YahuahSaves]

Doesn't change the fact that the term "holy trinity" isn't in scripture.
Regardless as to what either HOLY or Trinity means.

Holy Spirit (God's spirit) God is Holy. Trinity means 3. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all part of the Godhead. It is in scripture.

trinity
noun

1) A group consisting of three closely related members.
2) In most Christian faiths, the union of three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one God.
3) Trinity Sunday.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So, this is about what I call 'the coercive bargain' theory of Christianity. I will say from the outset, it's an idea I thoroughly reject. If you are a parent, you do not demand your children's love because you will only do good to them if they comply, and you will torment them unmercifully if they don't. Similarly, if you love God, and your neighbour, you will do good unto them because you love goodness, and need no other justification. If you need some promise of reward to get you to believe and to do good, what is left is a mere transaction. And if you believe the alternative is eternal torment, goodness is reduced to some petty, tawdry insurance policy against that. And it's counter productive. For who would really love a parent who inflicted their power thus?

Virtue, it is said. is it's own reward. Pursue it, then, for it's own sake.

Best wishes, Strivax.

Y'know, if you feel that you thoroughly reject any sort of coercive innuendo that might be in Christianity, there's a fairly easy remedy for that.

All it requires is a bit of lighter fluid and a match or two ... and "poof!": all assertions of divine coerciveness go bye-bye!!

 

[Lost Witness]

Bible is a man-made artifact, not a God-wrought one.

The Bible was written by those who were/are 'LED" by the LORDS Holy Spirit,
It's HIS word, Not mans?

 

[Lost Witness]

Holy Spirit (God's spirit) God is Holy. Trinity means 3. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all part of the Godhead. It is in scripture.

trinity
noun

1) A group consisting of three closely related members.
2) In most Christian faiths, the union of three divine persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one God.
3) Trinity Sunday.

Pipp the fact of the matter being,
HOLY Trinity the 'term' is never mentioned in the Bible, Period.
As stated I pray to GOD the father, the LORD Jesus and to the Holy spirit,
I however don't use or acknowledge the "holy trinity" (the LORDS Holy Spirit hasn't revealed the legitimacy of that term so it's nothing more than a term to me rn
It's not used in the bible so i have full right to reject the Term

 

[Astrid]

Y'know, if you feel that you thoroughly reject any sort of coercive innuendo that might be in Christianity, there's a fairly easy remedy for that.

All it requires is a bit of lighter fluid and a match or two ... and "poof!": all assertions of divine coerciveness go bye-bye!!

You say the silliest things

 

[YahuahSaves]

Pipp the fact of the matter being,
HOLY Trinity is never mentioned in the Bible, Period.
As stated I pray to GOD the father, the LORD Jesus and to the Holy spirit,
I however don't use or will use "holy trinity"
It's not used in the bible so i have full right to reject the Term

You don't get it the Father, Son and Spirit are ONE. It is GOD. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God. Understand?

 

[Lost Witness]

You don't get it the Father, Son and Spirit are ONE. It is GOD. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God. Understand?

The Holy trinity is a 'TERM',
Never used in the Bible
I'm well aware of who GOD is, Pipp.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You say the silliest things

Yep, I be thilly like dat!!!

 

[Strivax]

Y'know, if you feel that you thoroughly reject any sort of coercive innuendo that might be in Christianity, there's a fairly easy remedy for that.

All it requires is a bit of lighter fluid and a match or two ... and "poof!": all assertions of divine coerciveness go bye-bye!!

Hmmm. The Nazis used to burn books they didn't like, also. Fairly quickly, they graduated on to shovelling babies into ovens,, and burning them, as well. Fortunately, you don't seem to have reached that level of depravity, yet, so I still have hope for you. You could redeem yourself by engaging with the argument I put, rather than simply dismissing it out of hand; that is, if you have any such comment to make.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[SarahsKnight]

So, this is about what I call 'the coercive bargain' theory of Christianity. I will say from the outset, it's an idea I thoroughly reject. If you are a parent, you do not demand your children's love because you will only do good to them if they comply, and you will torment them unmercifully if they don't. Similarly, if you love God, and your neighbour, you will do good unto them because you love goodness, and need no other justification. If you need some promise of reward to get you to believe and to do good, what is left is a mere transaction. And if you believe the alternative is eternal torment, goodness is reduced to some petty, tawdry insurance policy against that

Well said, Strivax.

 

[Larniavc]

Negative reinforcement is punishment.

Not true.

 

[Larniavc]

What does society collapsing look like to you?

Roving gangs of Mad Max style techno barbarians.

A vocal minority getting all hot and bothered because some people have sex a different hardly counts.

 

[Larniavc]

I would not assume negative reinforcement is punishment.

And you would be correct.

 

[Larniavc]

Scripture is Truth, Period.

Even the bit that says pi =3?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Is killing people okay or not according to God? Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t.

AFAIK God has always been against cold blooded murder and always been ok with killing to survive. Whether that is taking human life in self-defense, or other animal life or plant life. It is often necessary in order to remain a viable biological entity. But all that has no bearing on your question in regard to spending eternity in hell. What deeds one does is irrelevant to that. Every one of us has things to be ashamed of and every one of us has something we can point to that has been beneficial to others. Loving one's neighbor as much as one possibly can will not gain entrance into eternal salvation nor will temporarily hating one's neighbor disqualify one from it. Salvation doesn't depend upon what one does but on what God does. God offers everyone salvation as a free gift. He just won't force anyone to accept that gift..