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The 'coercive bargain' theory of Christianity.

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Neutral Observer

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Neogaia777

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Neogaia777

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Just when is this collapse of society supposed to take place? Sexual immorality has been around for thousands of years and yet we're still here, chugging along as usual.


Uhmm, I'm pretty sure that the inequitable distribution of wealth has been around almost as long as sexual immorality. It seems to me that all of our supposed inequities just happened to appear about the same time that one man learned to judge the actions of another, and as long as we continue to do that they're not very apt to go away.

Conveniently Christians have an indisputable source by which to chastise their preferred abominations, but it gets referenced so often, and by so many that nobody seems to care anymore, except the choir. And while their prognostications can be disquieting they are for the most part harmless and we can all go about our lives knowing that mankind will most likely still be chugging along and listening to the gloom and doom for another few thousand years.

I for one, really don't care which supposed sky is falling, I've got a life to tend to.
It used to be that a certain kind of sexual "immorality" was pretty much unique only to elites and some pagan religious cults, etc, but "that kind" is now becoming common now, even among the very common now, etc, to where it could become like Sodom and Gommorah, etc, which became a place where rape and molestation (and beastiality) were no longer considered wrong or taboo, and were even very much highly cherished/worshipped as a part of their "sexually free liberated culture", etc, and was even part of introducing others into their culture, etc, all the way down to all the visitors and their young children, who, in that culture, were just as sexually active now/immoral now, as all of the rest of them were now at that point, and them with the adults and the old, and they with them regularly, etc, and none of it was considered wrong or out of place or taboo anymore, etc, no, not even close anymore, etc, but it was all "normalized/cherished" among all in those cities, including all the very young children from the time they were very young, etc, if it felt good to your flesh, then you were taught to just do it in that culture without any inhibition or restriction, even with the very, very young children, etc, because even the very, very young children were taught this from a very, very young age, so that they saw or felt nothing wrong with it at all either, and were even taught to encourage older ones, or ones of any age really, etc, to come and have some sex with them regularly or on a regular basis, etc...

Beastiality also, etc, rape, etc, nothing at all wrong with any of it, etc, all completely normal, and very, very much encouraged, etc, part of that societies culture, and initiation or introduction rights with visitors or strangers, etc...

Is any of this starting to sound familiar at all for all of those who can see a glimpse of the future yet maybe, etc...?

God says in his Word that He will stop it before it gets that bad, or gets to that point though, for the sake of His elect, before all of this becomes very, very "normal", and even "very much highly or greatly cherished, and worshipped", etc...

God Bless!
 
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YahuahSaves

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At this point, we either try making some compromises their way or in their favor, and hope they will do the same with some of ours, or we give up trying at this point.

And maybe all turn to prepping at this point, etc.

God Bless!
If you're talking about compromising with the world, that is not what we're supposed to do as Christians.

James 4:4 and Matthew 6:24 are good examples.
 
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YahuahSaves

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Wow, so God is on the staff of Christianity.com, you'd think they'd cite that somewhere but I couldn't find it. Here I thought that it was just a bunch writers and editors trying to masquerade as divine authority.
It's called the 10 commandments and following Gods moral law results in the 2 greatest commandments Jesus stated in Mark 12:29-31
 
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It used to be that a certain kind of sexual "immorality" was pretty much unique only to elites and some pagan religious cults, etc,
I find that highly unlikely, so if you could cite a source for this claim I'd appreciate it. Not just stories about the elite et al, but rather some sort of evidence that this wasn't representative of the societies as a whole.

Simply assuming it because it fits your narrative isn't sufficient.

Beastiality also, etc, rape, etc, nothing at all wrong with any of it, etc, all completely normal, and very, very much encouraged, etc, part of that societies culture, and initiation or introduction rights with visitors or strangers, etc...

Is any of this starting to sound familiar at all for all of those who can see a glimpse of the future yet maybe, etc...?
Yes, it's beginning to sound like the same old doom and gloom warning that has persisted ever since one group looked upon another group as being somehow morally inferior to themselves. So far those warnings appear to have had no basis in reality. This one is probably no more accurate than any of the preceding ones.

God says in his Word that He will stop it before it gets that bad, or gets to that point though, for the sake of His elect, before all of this becomes very, very "normal", and even "very much highly or greatly cherished, and worshipped", etc...
So it's bad, but not so bad that God feels the need to do anything about it. I think I'll take God's side on this one and sit out any judgment about who's being moral and who isn't. It's not my call. I think people are just being people with all the foibles thereof.
 
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It's called the 10 commandments and following Gods moral law results in the 2 greatest commandments Jesus stated in Mark 12:29-31
It ain't the commandments that bother me, it's the self-righteous, and the self-serving application thereof that bothers me.
 
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Neogaia777

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If you're talking about compromising with the world, that is not what we're supposed to do as Christians.

James 4:4 and Matthew 6:24 are good examples.
I'm probably talking about putting band-aides over bullet holes at this point to be honest with you, but, we've lost certain ground already when it comes to the rest of the world, and we might be partially to blame for that, and the only other option is to just give up altogther completely, and not to try, etc...

God Bless!
 
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YahuahSaves

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It ain't the commandments that bother me, it's the self-righteous, and the self-serving application thereof that bothers me.
I understand that. Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it through him. He came to fulfil the law because we couldn't achieve it through the flesh. Once we repent and are saved, the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth and helps us put off the flesh. It's not a Christian duty to condemn non-believers, we are called only to share the Gospel truth. Which is the Good News of salvation. People either accept it, or they reject it (believe on Jesus or not).
 
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YahuahSaves

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I'm probably talking about putting band-aides over bullet holes at this point to be honest with you, but, we've lost certain ground already when it comes to the rest of the world, and we might be partially to blame for that, and the only other option is to just give up altogther completely, and not to try, etc...

God Bless!
Perhaps religion has lost ground, but Jesus is not religion. He hasn't lost ground. The bible states clearly what will happen before his second coming, and most of it has occurred already.
 
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zippy2006

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So, this is about what I call 'the coercive bargain' theory of Christianity. I will say from the outset, it's an idea I thoroughly reject. If you are a parent, you do not demand your children's love because you will only do good to them if they comply, and you will torment them unmercifully if they don't. Similarly, if you love God, and your neighbour, you will do good unto them because you love goodness, and need no other justification. If you need some promise of reward to get you to believe and to do good, what is left is a mere transaction. And if you believe the alternative is eternal torment, goodness is reduced to some petty, tawdry insurance policy against that. And it's counter productive. For who would really love a parent who inflicted their power thus?

Virtue, it is said. is it's own reward. Pursue it, then, for it's own sake.

Best wishes, Strivax.
There is a new theory for training dogs that is becoming popular. It involves the idea that only positive reinforcement should be used, and that dogs should never be punished. Turns out it makes for pretty crappy dogs. We should probably try it out on kids.

It just so happens that humans--and especially children--only grow to love goodness through the long and winding road of punishment and reward. The Bible witnesses often to the fact that there are some who will come to love goodness for its own sake, and others who will come to love evil for its own sake. Avoiding punishment is a terrible recipe for parenting. Also, for training dogs. But a quick skim of the Bible would also alert us to the fact that God is quite keen to utilize punishment.
 
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Larniavc

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What's the replacement birthrate of the UK And North European countries?
It’s fine. Too many people on the planet. We take in young and vibrant immigrants.
 
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Larniavc

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Yeah I checked that after I responded. Forgot the sub-forum is open to atheists. We are all drawn by the Holy Spirit, we choose to listen or not.
I dunno, I read the Bible cover to cover. I have never felt any kind of call.
 
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Larniavc

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That is simply not the case. We do not have to guess. What He wants has been clearly stated over and over again.
Is killing people okay or not according to God? Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t.
 
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Larniavc

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Is any of this starting to sound familiar at all for all of those who can see a glimpse of the future yet maybe, etc...?
Only in the fever dreams of Christians. No one else, though.
 
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Neogaia777

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Is killing people okay or not according to God? Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t.
If the ends were supposed to justify the means, and the Being had no previous reason to doubt why they would end up in failure...?

I don't know...? You decide, etc...?

God Bless!
 
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Larniavc

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It just so happens that humans--and especially children--only grow to love goodness through the long and winding road of punishment and reward.
This is quite wrong as any social psychologist will tell you. Positive and negative reinforcement work great.

Punishment does not.
 
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Larniavc

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If the ends were supposed to justify the means, and the Being had no previous reason to doubt why they would end up in failure...?

I don't know...? You decide, etc...?

God Bless!
Therefore the rules of God are sketchy at best.
 
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