The Church would have been better off without the Reformation.

[RDKirk]

The Reformation restored the legitimate place of the Bible in testing all doctrine and tradition.

The counter reformation established the legitimacy of the reformation from inside the RCC.

Right. Which means that the RCC needed an internal reformation, even if politically it was to counter the effect of the Reformation.

 

[Wgw]

According to Acts 20 the church would have errors inserted into it.
According to 2Thess 2:1-4 that would result in gross apostasy
According to 1 Tim 1 that error was starting up in the first century.
According to Titus 1 - that error was expanding into new churches.
According to 3John 1 - that error continued to expand.

so it is unreasonable for the Orthodox and Catholics to adhere to some of their current assumptions.

On the contrary, these verses reflect the heresies that have separated people from the Church, resulting in apostasy. Orthodoxy by virtue of its central integrity is unaltered and ever true to the faith once delivered to the Apostles.

 

[BobRyan]

On the contrary those much predicted features of error coming into the church - resulted in prayer to the dead, purgatory, indulgences, images in church, "confecting the body soul and divinity of Christ" - the supposedly infallible command in Lateran IV to "exterminate heretics" - the list is pretty long.

This is a simple fact of history

 

[Wgw]

On the contrary those much predicted features of error coming into the church - resulted in prayer to the dead, purgatory, indulgences, images in church, "confecting the body soul and divinity of Christ" - the supposedly infallible command in Lateran IV to "exterminate heretics" - the list is pretty long.

This is a simple fact of history

Purgatory, indulgences and burning heretics are alien to Oriental Orthodoxy.

The rest are legitimate practices of the Holy Apostles.

 

[BobRyan]

some of them may be alien to oriental orthodoxy - but they are not alien to history and the Protestant Reformation

So yeah --

According to Acts 20 the church would have errors inserted into it.
According to 2Thess 2:1-4 that would result in gross apostasy
According to 1 Tim 1 that error was starting up in the first century.
According to Titus 1 - that error was expanding into new churches.
According to 3John 1 - that error continued to expand.

so it is unreasonable for the Orthodox and Catholics to adhere to some of their current assumptions.

The Bible remains "instructive" on those points and history proves it.

 

[Wgw]

some of them may be alien to oriental orthodoxy - but they are not alien to history and the Protestant Reformation

Indeed, however, since they are not aspects of the Oriental Orthodox faith I basically can only regret that these errors came into being. The OO never believed in them. It is lamentable that instead of the reformation there was not simply a cohesive return to Holy Orthodoxy.

 

[Albion]

some of them may be alien to oriental orthodoxy - but they are not alien to history and the Protestant Reformation

The answer you were given, therefore, seems to verify the idea that the Reformation was necessary. A similar one might not have been necessary in areas where Oriental Orthodoxy predominated (which is none), but in Western Europe all these issues did exist and were backed by the full force of an authoritarian church.

 

[BobRyan]

Indeed, however, since they are not aspects of the Oriental Orthodox faith I basically can only regret that these errors came into being.

More than this - I can appreciate the warnings we have in the NT in that regard and the great apostasy that is then seen when so large a chunk of the Christian church goes for them in the dark ages.

 

[Wgw]

The answer you were given, therefore, seems to verify the idea that the Reformation was necessary. A similar one might not have been necessary in areas where Oriental Orthodoxy predominated (which is none), but in Western Europe all these issues did exist and were backed by the full force of an authoritarian church.

Oriental Orthodoxy was and is the predominant religion in Ethiopia and Armenia, and always has been; it is the predominant form of Christianity in Egypt and large portions of the Malabar coast. Only Syriac Orthodoxy has generally had minority status, however, one can identify numerous rural districts of Syria and Iraq where it was (and still is) the dominant Christian church.

 

[Albion]

Oriental Orthodoxy was and is the predominant religion in Ethiopia and Armenia, and always has been

Ah, yes. Ethiopia and Armenia. I deserve to be corrected on that. I was thinking of the many areas in which the churches exist but the government was Muslim (such as you describe in the next paragraph. Obviously, the situation there is different from that of Western Europe where the Roman Church not only predominated among Christians but among all religions...and dominated the government as well).

it is the predominant form of Christianity in Egypt and large portions of the Malabar coast. Only Syriac Orthodoxy has generally had minority status, however, one can identify numerous rural districts of Syria and Iraq where it was (and still is) the dominant Christian church.

 

[Wgw]

Ah, yes. Ethiopia and Armenia. I deserve to be corrected on that. I was thinking of the many areas in which the churches exist but the government was Muslim (such as you describe in the next paragraph. Obviously, the situation there is different from that of Western Europe where the Roman Church not only predominated among Christians but among all religions...and dominated the government as well).

Interestingly on this point the first city state to embrace Christianity, the Kingdom of Edessa, and the first nation, Armenia, both wound up OO.

 

[Root of Jesse]

some of them may be alien to oriental orthodoxy - but they are not alien to history and the Protestant Reformation

So yeah --

According to Acts 20 the church would have errors inserted into it.
According to 2Thess 2:1-4 that would result in gross apostasy
According to 1 Tim 1 that error was starting up in the first century.
According to Titus 1 - that error was expanding into new churches.
According to 3John 1 - that error continued to expand.

so it is unreasonable for the Orthodox and Catholics to adhere to some of their current assumptions.

The Bible remains "instructive" on those points and history proves it.

Them's called heresies, and are not part of the Church. They tried, and didn't succeed.