The church is doing more to keep people single, than to bring them together?

ThisIsMe123

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Saw this post somewhere else on how the "Evangelical church is keeping more people single" It's a pretty good read:

On point #3, that is kind of odd that friend groups of both men in women in church, but neither are trying to date each other...just a gaggle of platonic friendships there?

And the point of one having to take action and put yourself out there as it's the man's role to be proactive and not just sit on your hands, and "God will provide you a woman/man" or "Let God bring someone to you"

The “one” theology: I believe this idea is particularly damaging because it has more than enough potential to stop good relationships from forming or continuing. It boils down to if I “feel” like this is God’s person for me. “God” is only “telling” you this person is the one because they probably meet enough of your preferences. More often than not, I think this idea is a cop-out to get out of a relationship or not even start one at all. It is a theology of feelings, not wisdom. Yes God brought Adam his wife in Genesis, but that was an exception.

There is some truth to this, people use the "God told me this/that" in their decision making process, when it was really of their one free will. This can happen with even non-dating/relationship decision making practices.
 

DragonFox91

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I stopped worrying about what most churches are doing, found one w/ a good group of people that teaches it right, & I'm happy there & believe one will come when one does. & I believe other genuine Christians can to if their heart so desires it & it's God's will.

It's a waste of time worrying about what most churches are doing.

I agree 'just wait for one' is very bad teaching. The man has to be preparing himself for one. I have no idea what the woman should be doing, but as men, we need to be ready for her. There's things we should be doing as men to get ready. 'Just live life' is bad teaching b/c you're selfish. How can you be ready for a woman living selfish? & I don't mean selfish like all you think about is yourself, I mean it in the sense you're not learning selflessness. Be proactive! Paul says 'pursue!'

The one theology: yes, I believe in the one theology. I do agree w/ the point how the one theology is often based on our faulty emotion

Encouraging men & woman to just be friends: I don't see this. Can't comment on it. I'm guessing this is to encourage people not to rush & eventually they do start dating.

4: yes, but the church doesn't teach this

5: Gift of singleness: the church teaches this right, some have it, some dont

6: agreed, immature men & prideful women is big problem. Should be less of a problem in churches. At least men & women s/ be working on becoming not that way

Most of these points aren't based in what churches are doing or teaching, but what single people believe

Also Reddit is very toxic. I wouuldn't waste time there unless you want to be depressed.
 
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Tranquil Bondservant

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Saw this post somewhere else on how the "Evangelical church is keeping more people single" It's a pretty good read:

On point #3, that is kind of odd that friend groups of both men in women in church, but neither are trying to date each other...just a gaggle of platonic friendships there?

And the point of one having to take action and put yourself out there as it's the man's role to be proactive and not just sit on your hands, and "God will provide you a woman/man" or "Let God bring someone to you"

The “one” theology: I believe this idea is particularly damaging because it has more than enough potential to stop good relationships from forming or continuing. It boils down to if I “feel” like this is God’s person for me. “God” is only “telling” you this person is the one because they probably meet enough of your preferences. More often than not, I think this idea is a cop-out to get out of a relationship or not even start one at all. It is a theology of feelings, not wisdom. Yes God brought Adam his wife in Genesis, but that was an exception.

There is some truth to this, people use the "God told me this/that" in their decision making process, when it was really of their one free will. This can happen with even non-dating/relationship decision making practices.
Firstly as somebody who effectively grew up on the old internet (pre social media) you should be careful about linking Reddit here. The website is 99% a Godless cesspit of a website that is filled to the brim and overflowing with illicit sexual material (the word for the sexual material is censored here), people encouraging sin and an overt mockery & hatred towards Christians and our Lord God Himself. Even in the /r/Christianity sub there's Atheist moderators and any person who actively takes a stance against homosexuality or any such things is borderline spit up on. In my mind it's more of a cesspit than 4chan because they actively censor people and ban them for not following the modern secular 'morality' (arbitrary desires) or for saying normal Christian things.

Secondly God bringing Adam his wife in Genesis is not an exception. God providentially brought Rebekah to Isaac (read Genesis 24), He united Boaz and Ruth, Esther's rise is filled with providence and etc. Furthermore we're told in Matthew 19:6 "So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate." and while yes this is speaking to the union of being united as one, it's still God who is doing the uniting and therefore His providence is not to be discounted at any stage of the process of the uniting and I don't think anyone could ever form a coherent argument against that. He has omniscient foreknowledge and will help you in not making a mistake both through His Word ("Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?" 2 Cor 6:14) and also through the power of The Holy Spirit. While there is no doubt that a person can choose a partner in accordance with their own will, God being sovereign means that He for many, or perhaps multitudes, will providentially unite a man and a woman not only for His purposes but for their own good (often simultaneously in accordance with the man/woman's will if it's rooted in Him) and because He is immensely loving.

Some of us are created for specific people that God has made (I personally believe I'm made/prepared for someone in this world) and I think you can see this not only in The Bible but also throughout history like with Martin Luther and his wife Katharine. Luther would not have been Luther without her and it would have been an extremely different reformation without the union of them both. This idea of 'the one' or a soul mate in our culture did not crop up out of nowhere as it has solid Biblical foundations. I don't know if you have met a couple who is aligned not only in desires, interests, passions, outlooks and beliefs, but also unified and one in immense love both for God and each other; but they really do exist. And it is beyond obvious that such a couple were soul mates and made to be together in the same way Eve was made to be with Adam. So that both of them would be able to exclaim with joy and gratitude to God the same way Adam did "This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh" (Gen 2:23). The World Biblical Commentary puts this succinctly and beautifully "In ecstasy man bursts into poetry on meeting his perfect helpmeet.". This is a mutual relationship where both man and woman were made to be with one another and both are each others helpmeets in different aspects of their lives. Which now with sin being in the world is more important than ever. Only God knows the hearts of humans and only He can unite people together who He knows will not only be a blessing for each other and edify each other, but therein, also others who will be impacted by them. So just the very nature of Biblical marriage implies God's providence and disproves the idea of 'the one' Theology being an exception for Adam and Eve.

God bless :heart:.
 
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DragonFox91

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Fantastic post Bond. You GET it!

I would just critique it a little bit: God brings Adam & Isaac their wives, yes, but the men aren't just sitting idly either.
 
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Tranquil Bondservant

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I would just critique it a little bit: God brings Adam & Isaac their wives, yes, but the men aren't just sitting idly either.
That's a fantastic point. Thank you for pointing that aspect out.
 
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LoveDivine

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Last I checked the role of the church is to make disciples not marriages. The church isn't a dating service. All these complaints people post about what the church isn't doing to help their love lives truly makes me laugh. Show me anywhere in the NT where this is even mentioned. The idea is that in a spiritually healthy and vibrant church there is that close connection and bond among all believers. And, that this fellowship will prompt other believers to naturally seek a partner among their own close knit community. It's easy for believers to connect on all levels when there is real fellowship. Likewise, it's also easy for Christians to get caught up in secular things and look for non-Christian partners when the church they attend isn't really focused on evangelization and reaching others with the gospel. It's really odd to think of the apostles setting up singles nights for their converts. Lol. I'm not sure what the church is supposed to do for singles other than provide them an avenue for fellowship with other likeminded believers. Notice a correlation here: churches today have way more programs than they ever had and way less successful matches. So, maybe more programs does not equal more truly good relationships and marriages. Possibly more focus on NT type of Christianity would. Something to ponder
 
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TheLastGeek

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Last I checked the role of the church is to make disciples not marriages. The church isn't a dating service. All these complaints people post about what the church isn't doing to help their love lives truly makes me laugh. Show me anywhere in the NT where this is even mentioned. The idea is that in a spiritually healthy and vibrant church there is that close connection and bond among all believers. And, that this fellowship will prompt other believers to naturally seek a partner among their own close knit community. It's easy for believers to connect on all levels when there is real fellowship. Likewise, it's also easy for Christians to get caught up in secular things and look for non-Christian partners when the church they attend isn't really focused on evangelization and reaching others with the gospel. It's really odd to think of the apostles setting up singles nights for their converts. Lol. I'm not sure what the church is supposed to do for singles other than provide them an avenue for fellowship with other likeminded believers. Notice a correlation here: churches today have way more programs than they ever had and way less successful matches. So, maybe more programs does not equal more truly good relationships and marriages. Possibly more focus on NT type of Christianity would. Something to ponder
I agree wholeheartedly with this.

HOWEVER...

Churches do tend to neglect supporting events, groups, activities, etc, that bring everyone together to interact, fellowship, and just have FUN. Not every church function needs to be a "ministry" or "focus group". Nor do they need to constantly separate men from women. Sure, those types of groups are necessary and crucial, but... how about something where everyone can just gather and have fun or share time together? How about a varied activity per month for anyone to attend? Not all men are interested in "come play football like a MAN" and not all women are into "come sip tea and nibble cookies like a LADY" type stuff. How about a family gaming night? A walking/hiking group? A movie night? I'd be all over that.
 
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Plenipotent

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God very recently gave me my answer to everything there, which I've already shared with you. But I'll state it here far more plainly...

If you truly love God, there's no need to be consumed by worry. I don't mean to say you WON'T be, just that there's no need. Relax. Breathe. Everything will be fine. Following God faithfully means He'll provide for your needs, relieving you of unnecessary concerns. Instead of fretting over the actions of the physical church building's doings or individuals, unless God explicitly directs you to address something, I think it's best to concentrate on nurturing your personal relationship with Him. This way, everything will work out just fine. It's intriguing to contemplate the activities of physical churches, but we have to remember that the church isn't the buildings we go to to worship, it's us. The person you see when you look in the mirror? That's the only part of the church you can control. So, focus on bettering that and contribute to the growth of the actual church each and every day.

When you love God and faithfully follow Him, you'll discover the right person if it aligns with His plan. If it doesn't, rest assured that what He has in store for you is far superior to any want you could ever have.
 
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Plenipotent

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Hospitality is part of our faith. I think that's actually part of the problem.
You know, Dragon mentioned being uncertain about what a woman should be doing while a man prepares for marriage, but I personally believe that if a woman desires to be married, she should be engaged in a similar process. That's my personal perspective. In my own journey, I've started to revisit the lessons from my childhood about homemaking and have been expanding on those skills so that when the right person comes into my life, I am better prepared. I've been revisiting my old Christian curriculum on this topic, and in doing so, I've come to understand that a significant aspect of homemaking is also about being hospitable to others, opening your home and extending a warm welcome. It's quite enlightening.

Based on what I've learned, as a Christian woman and future wife, I believe we are called to do this as a responsibility to God and our husbands. I wholeheartedly agree with your point on this matter, and I think everyone can benefit from learning more about it. I've even purchased a new book on the subject, and I believe many people, especially women, could benefit from investing some time in learning these things. Be the change you wish to see is right in my eyes!

If anyone is interested, here's the book I most recently purchased. I haven't dived into it yet, but it might be a good starting point. There are plenty of options to choose from!

20230922_210623.jpg
 
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TheLastGeek

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I think that "homemaking" is fine and good and useful for those who enjoy it and feel fulfilled by it. It's not every woman's calling. A woman is not obligated to pursue such a thing simply because she is a woman. Nor is she less than other Christian women, if she doesn't deck out her house with flowers and pillows and ten flavors of coffee and tea for guests. Christians - both male and female - all have a unique calling and a unique set of gifts and talents to use in the world. As a woman who is 100% Christian and yet very much non-homemakery, I am always a bit wary of pigeonholing millions of individuals. My home is my sacred, private hidey hole from the world, not an open door hotel. People who live otherwise, I have NO issue with that, it's great and fine and dandy. Women who ENJOY being hospitable hostesses are wonderful people. But I don't try to say what others should do, and I don't think others should say what I should do. I'm a person who is adamantly private and protective of her own space. I may invite someone into it on occasion, but those occasions are rare.

Just my possibly pointless two cents.
 
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Tranquil Bondservant

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Nor is she less than other Christian women, if she doesn't deck out her house with flowers and pillows and ten flavors of coffee and tea for guests. Christians - both male and female - all have a unique calling and a unique set of gifts and talents to use in the world.
Awesome insights ^_^. I really like this one you made.

Both men and women share in the divine image of God. Therein, both have dominion over the Earth in the same capacity that is listed in Genesis 1:26-30. The man does not have the right and cannot nullify the woman’s dominion over Creation because it comes from God and is decreed by God that she rules over Creation with the same authority as the man. Together they are unified and one, however, if they are not the woman still has the same God given rights as the man in this regard; i.e., dominion over the whole Earth and everything in it. While we still have different roles (which doesn't mean one gender is more valuable than the other), in Christ we're both of equal value and are both simultaneously subservient to Him and His will.
 
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Plenipotent

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I can appreciate your perspective, but I interpreted it differently and expressed my thoughts accordingly. Perhaps this could be a good opportunity for you all to share some Bible verses that might help me better understand your standpoint?
 
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TheLastGeek

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I can appreciate your perspective, but I interpreted it differently and expressed my thoughts accordingly. Perhaps this could be a good opportunity for you all to share some Bible verses that might help me better understand your standpoint?
The thing is, I don't disagree with you that striving to be a welcoming, hospitable hostess and homemaker is a common theme among women, both secular and Christian, and oftentimes runs in sync with the personality and tendencies of "most" women. My point is that I don't think it should be held up as something that all Christian women are obliged to do and be, simply by virtue of them *being* Christian women.

In other words, I disagree with this statement: "You are a Christian woman, therefore if you aren't striving to create a warm, welcoming home for family, friends, and visitors, and your door isn't open to all who wish to pass through it, you are derelict in your faith and duty."

Not every woman who follows Christ is destined to be a homemaker.

That's all.

You said, "...as a Christian woman and future wife, I believe we are called to do this as a responsibility to God and our husbands."

I would agree that that is a calling for YOU, personally, if you feel called to it. Not that it is a calling for ALL Christian women. Because then you're saying that if a woman DOESN'T strive to become a homemaker, she is - according to your declaration - not doing what a Christian woman should do.

I think hospitality and homemaking and domesticity comes naturally to most women. I think it's a beautiful thing. I'm glad there are many women out there who practice it. I do not think it is an inherent obligation to being a Christian woman.

Hope that helps.
 
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Plenipotent

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The thing is, I don't disagree with you that striving to be a welcoming, hospitable hostess and homemaker is a common theme among women, both secular and Christian, and oftentimes runs in sync with the personality and tendencies of "most" women. My point is that I don't think it should be held up as something that all Christian women are obliged to do and be, simply by virtue of them *being* Christian women.

In other words, I disagree with this statement: "You are a Christian woman, therefore if you aren't striving to create a warm, welcoming home for family, friends, and visitors, and your door isn't open to all who wish to pass through it, you are derelict in your faith and duty."

Not every woman who follows Christ is destined to be a homemaker.

That's all.

You said, "...as a Christian woman and future wife, I believe we are called to do this as a responsibility to God and our husbands."

I would agree that that is a calling for YOU, personally, if you feel called to it. Not that it is a calling for ALL Christian women. Because then you're saying that if a woman DOESN'T strive to become a homemaker, she is - according to your declaration - not doing what a Christian woman should do.

I think hospitality and homemaking and domesticity comes naturally to most women. I think it's a beautiful thing. I'm glad there are many women out there who practice it. I do not think it is an inherent obligation to being a Christian woman.

Hope that helps.
I believe there may be a misunderstanding here, and I'd like to clarify my perspective. I'm not asserting that you're mistaken or wrong, rather, I view this as an excellent opportunity for those who hold differing views on the Bible's teachings to provide their insights and corrections. In my previous statement, what I said was, "Based on what I've learned, as a Christian woman and future wife, I believe we are called to do this as a responsibility to God and our husbands." Therefore, if your understanding of the Bible's teachings diverges from mine, I consider it valuable and relevant to share your perspective of the teachings.

From my own understanding, I see God's call for both men and women to practice hospitality consistently throughout the Bible. For instance, Hebrews 13:2 emphasizes the importance of showing hospitality to strangers, as some have unknowingly extended kindness to angels. This is a principle I've taken to heart. Moreover, I believe that God's Word calls upon older women to mentor and educate younger women, as outlined in Paul's letters in Titus. Additionally, Proverbs 31:10-31 provides a description of the qualities of a noble wife. I've tried to glean wisdom from numerous verses in my study. However, if you've interpreted these passages differently or have encountered other verses that could enrich my perspective on this topic, I'd love to encourage you to share them with me.

It's not my intention to diminish my, or anyone elses, knowledge or understanding, rather, I'm eager to expand my comprehension of these matters. Given that both you and Tranquil seem to concur that my perspective may be misguided, this signals to me that there is much more for me to learn. I'm committed to dedicating time to delving deeper into the teachings of the Bible in pursuit of greater understanding. :blush:
 
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Plenipotent

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And I'd like to state too, the idea of becoming a homemaker doesn't appeal to me. I've been financially independent and self-reliant since I was 15, even having to teach myself to drive and buy my own vehicle without any hand-me-downs or lessons. I value my privacy and independence, so the thought of submitting to my future husband and having strangers in my home or unexpected visits doesn't sit well with me. Heck, I don't even like impromptu phone calls. Send me a text.

However, I wholeheartedly believe in, "If you love me, you will obey what I command.". While I may not want to be a homemaker, and while I don't have to be because no one is forcing me, I believe that is what the Bible has stated. If that's what God says, then I'm going to do it even if I don't like it. If my understanding is incorrect, I'm MORE than open to guidance from others to deepen my understanding of the Scriptures.

Nevertheless, I believe in continuous learning. There's no harm in acquiring skills like hospitality, sewing, home repairs, auto maintenance, bookkeeping or cooking/cleaning. Knowledge is valuable, and I think it's beneficial to expand one's abilities in various areas regardless.
 
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TheLastGeek

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I don't know if you're misguided or not. It depends again on whether you feel that this pursuit is "what every Christian woman should do in order to be a good/proper/correct Christian woman" or if you simply feel it's what God is leading YOU to do.

I'm not sure why you said "there's no harm" in acquiring these domestic skills. I don't think anyone's replies have come anywhere close to insinuating harm in learning such things. In fact, I applauded it. More than once.

I think I've been fairly clear on my point, and have no wish to beat a dead horse, so that's all I've got to say for the moment.
 
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Plenipotent

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I don't know if you're misguided or not. It depends again on whether you feel that this pursuit is "what every Christian woman should do in order to be a good/proper/correct Christian woman" or if you simply feel it's what God is leading YOU to do.

I'm not sure why you said "there's no harm" in acquiring these domestic skills. I don't think anyone's replies have come anywhere close to insinuating harm in learning such things. In fact, I applauded it. More than once.

I think I've been fairly clear on my point, and have no wish to beat a dead horse, so that's all I've got to say for the moment.

I believe that every Christian should strive to follow the biblical teachings. If a Christian woman has the aspiration to become a wife, then she should thus strive to follow the teachings accordingly. Personally, I view these instructions as inherently good because they come from God, even if I may not fully comprehend their goodness. However, I don't think that everyone is obligated to follow these teachings to be considered a Christian. In my understanding, if I truly love God, I will endeavor to obey His commands. So, if I have the physical ability to embrace the role of a homemaker and desire to be married, thus becoming a wife, and God's Word states that this is the path for a wife, then I am personally committed to following that path.

I acknowledge that many Christians engage in behaviors that go against the teachings, like smoking, despite the Bible's guidance to treat our bodies well, as they are temples for the Holy Spirit. This doesn't diminish their Christian identity or their humanity in general. However, I believe it's apparent that God doesn't encourage willingly putting harmful chemicals into our bodies that lead to addiction. This doesn't mean one loves God any less or is less committed to following Him if they engage in such behavior. I simply believe that when we have the physical capacity to follow God's word, as Christians, we should strive to do so because it is good and it glorifies God.

My main point is that from my interpretation of the Bible, it seems to outline certain behaviors and attitudes for women who plan to be wives. However, I'm open to correction if I have misunderstood the Scripture. Jesus calls us to correct and guide each other, doesn't He? So, I'm inviting anyone with a different interpretation of Scripture to enlighten me so that I can begin studying that to help my understanding.

I'm not looking to engage in a debate. I'm providing an opportunity for you to correct me if you believe my understanding of Scripture is mistaken. If you're willing to help, I'd greatly appreciate it. If not, that's perfectly fine too. I don't intend to force my perspective on anyone, but I do seek guidance since I haven't found a different interpretation on my own. Any direction on where to look or where to start would be immensely helpful.

You've made your standpoint clear, and I'm asking if you would kindly assist me in comprehending your perspective and, by extension, a deeper understanding of Scripture. It seems that Tranquil also shares your viewpoint, so when two people suggest that I might be mistaken in my understanding, I'm inclined to explore further.
 
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Tranquil Bondservant

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It seems that Tranquil also shares your viewpoint, so when two people suggest that I might be mistaken in my understanding, I'm inclined to explore further.
I don't think you're mistaken at all. It's just that TheLastGeek is saying that women are not restricted solely to a homemaking role or that it's something that you must pursue as a woman and you're saying the same thing in essence. I believe TheLastGeek put emphasis on a woman having a potentially different calling (think Missionary, Academic or something that is the opposite of/doesn't involve homemaking) and you're putting emphasis on choosing homemaking. The only thing I would add is that our modern definition of a stay at home wife is far (I would say extremely) different to what The Bible presents it as. The advent of Cars and Suburbs played a massive part in bringing it about. Proverbs 31:10-31.

Families used to live together, travel together, work together, worship together and die together. The virtues laid out in Proverbs 31:10-31 has a more familial aspect that can get lost on us in our world of individuality. The woman in proverbs is an integral and leading part of the family who without which everything collapses.

From what I've read you're approaching homemaking from a different perspective. One of sharing the gospel and fellowshipping with fellow Christians. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and in fact it's awesome, I would only add that it's not gendered. Aquila and Priscilla would be a good example "Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, who for my life risked their own necks, to whom not only do I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles; also greet the church that is in their house." (Romans 16:3-5).

Edit: Actually in the above verse Aquila if he was a Roman Citizen would have been the Pater Familias which means as the head of the househould he as a man would have played a chief part in the homemaking.
 
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Plenipotent

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I don't think you're mistaken at all. It's just that TheLastGeek is saying that women are not restricted solely to a homemaking role or that it's something that you must pursue as a woman and you're saying the same thing in essence. I believe TheLastGeek put emphasis on a woman having a potentially different calling (think Missionary, Academic or something that is the opposite of/doesn't involve homemaking) and you're putting emphasis on choosing homemaking. The only thing I would add is that our modern definition of a stay at home wife is far (I would say extremely) different to what The Bible presents it as. The advent of Cars and Suburbs played a massive part in bringing it about. Proverbs 31:10-31.
Ohh, I see. I think I'm getting a better grasp of this now. So does this mean that if a woman is married, she should prioritize her individual calling from God over her role as a wife? For instance, if God has called her to be a missionary or an academic, she should wholeheartedly pursue that calling despite God saying, 'this is what you should do as a wife'? I'm unsure on how husband and home fit into the hierarchy of God's plans for us. Is it more of an individual relationship situation where, for example, if her husband fully supports her pursuit of her calling, then it aligns with God's will? Because then I think, what if her husband insists that she should stay at home, and it feels like obeying God's calling clashes with obeying her husband? It's almost as if obeying God becomes a form of disobeying God in this scenario. In that case, would she need to find a way to fulfill her calling while still adhering to God's role for her as a wife?

We might need to take this over to your other thread, because I have lots of questions. :tearsofjoy:

Families used to live together, travel together, work together, worship together and die together. The virtues laid out in Proverbs 31:10-31 has a more familial aspect that can get lost on us in our world of individuality. The woman in proverbs is an integral and leading part of the family who without which everything collapses.
I agree, that's how I interpreted it too. However, I thought that fulfilling that important role was a woman's duty as a wife. It's such a departure from how we live in today's modern world due to the significant societal changes and shifts in modern times. But I understood my discomfort of it as, "It isn't like this anymore because we haven't been following this path." Does that make sense? How would you approach that line of thinking?

From what I've read you're approaching homemaking from a different perspective. One of sharing the gospel and fellowshipping with fellow Christians. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and in fact it's awesome, I would only add that it's not gendered. Aquila and Priscilla would be a good example "Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, who for my life risked their own necks, to whom not only do I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles; also greet the church that is in their house." (Romans 16:3-5).
I believe I may have pinpointed where the confusion in my previous statement arises after reading this. What I originally meant to convey wasn't that all Christian women should primarily focus on homemaking simply because it's a divine directive. Rather, my point was that women who aspire to marriage should equip themselves with the necessary skills and knowledge to navigate the complexities of that role. That was my very first sentence.

Then, I went on to explain my personal journey, I've been reacquainting myself with the art of homemaking, recognizing it as a skill that I may lack which may be required for marriage. As I'm still discerning my calling in life, I've chosen to concentrate on understanding what the Bible teaches about the roles of wives and women in the household. I didn't include the emphasized part earlier because I've been attempting to streamline my communication. As I mentioned in another thread, I've found that providing too little information leaves people puzzled, while an excess of information causes sheer confusion. Apparently, both still have the same outcome so I don't know what to do. :tearsofjoy:

But! Through THAT process of self teaching, I've come to learn about the significance of hospitality in relation to our faith. Hospitality holds great importance, and it's a quality God desires in both men and women. Hence, Priscilla and Aquila. They were married and both VERY hospitable. Thus, I believe we should ALL be learning more about hospitality.

In essence, I believe it's crucial for all of us, regardless of gender, to cultivate our understanding of hospitality in order to extend it as God calls all of us to. We all may have our individual callings, but from my understanding of the Bible, God's calling ALL Christians to be hospitable. However, women, given their usual and biblical roles as keepers of the home, should especially endeavor to acquire the knowledge. This is not to imply that all women must follow the path of a homemaker, but rather to acknowledge that Christian women, on average, are more likely to be in a position of control in regards to providing a hospitable atmosphere within their households. I was not saying that every Christian woman should learn how to become a homemaker, I was saying that every Christian, especially woman, should aspire to learn how to be hospitable.

My response to not understanding your perspectives, was based on hospitality. Not homemaking. Because my original post, was about hospitality, not homemaking. Homemaking is what I'm learning for my own benefit. Through that I learned about the importance of hospitality.
 
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I will let him respond to this, but I just wanted to add that submitting to your husband is not obeying everything he asks or says. That's not the Biblical teaching of submission. Also a husband can never usurp the place of Christ. His opinions are secondary to what God calls us to do. He himself must also be in submission to Christ. Plenty of examples in Scripture of women who disobeyed their husbands and it was considered an act of righteousness. Abigail saved David from shedding blood by disobeying her husband and giving supplies to David and his men. Jael killed Sisera with the tent peg. Why do you think he escaped to their tent? Her husband was someone he thought he could trust. These are just a couple of examples. Abraham was told by God to listen to Sarah when she begged him to drive out Hagar and Ishmael. So biblically, submission does not equal obedience to your husband. That's a way many extrapolate it, but it's not actually what it means.
Thanks for the clarification! I completely understand your point. I may have more questions in the future, but I'll take some time to review your examples first. If I still have questions afterward, I hope it's okay to knock on your inbox door. :tearsofjoy:

I do agree that we all should be hospitable. I think your observations are correct on that topic. That's what I was trying to get at in my initial post. I also agree that it's a good thing that you seek to be someone who can provide a comfortable home life for your spouse. That's very much in keeping with the spirit of the command to submit to or respect our husband's. I do agree with TheLastGeek's objections that this doesn't equate to all women are called to be homemakers. I think it's a bit too restrictive or simplistic of a view. But I see where you are coming from. Honestly, I think your outlook is nice :)
Your post is the reason I brought this up, so I'm pleased to see we're on the same page! Before delving into homemaking, I didn't fully grasp the significance of hospitality. However, as I've explored homemaking, I've realized that opening your home is just one facet of hospitality. There are numerous other ways to practice it in all aspects of our lives. It's been truly enlightening.

I can confidently say that my journey into homemaking has been an eye-opener. My previous understanding of homemaking was limited to the stereotype of staying home to cook, clean, and raise kids. To my surprise, it goes far beyond that.

Lastly, one story I love from the life of Christ is Jesus interacting with Mary and Martha. Martha was busy being hospitable and taking care of the needs of Jesus and his Disciples. But Mary was actually caught up listening to the words of Christ. Martha was doing a good thing, but she was missing something special. So I always hesitate when Christian women focus too much on becoming homemakers and ideal Christian wives ( although it's good and right), because that's not their true purpose in life. Taking care of the house and your family / husband is still secondary to spiritual things

I don't know it that helps at all
It does help! It does make me curious if others perceive homemaking as I once did. My homemaking curriculum presents a broader perspective, quite distinct from the modern view. It encompasses entrepreneurship, job applications, resume building, interview skills, real estate transactions, travel etiquette, alongside the basics of cooking, cleaning, personal hygiene, and modest attire. It also delves into accounting, bookkeeping, investing, all while emphasizing the importance of keeping God and his word at the forefront and maintaining a biblically oriented family life.

But hospitality was not something I remember learning when I was younger during these lessons. I think I just breezed through it like the rest of the curriculum and didn't really understand or appreciate it. But I was surprised at how important it was within homemaking but also how important it was just as a Christian.

I think if more people learned about how they could be hospitable, some of the problems like the ones posed about how the church handles singles, wouldn't be problems at all.
 
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