The Call by Pastor Rick Joyner?

[DennisTate]

I am amazed by all the many great spiritual lessons illustrated in this fascinating book.

I listened to it four or five times last week when I was too tired to read.... and it was so encouraging.

I found this visionary dream to be a great way for me to increase my faith.

 

[DennisTate]

An intriguing question came up in this writing:

Should Christians fight against fallen angels.... not each other?

Rick Joyner: "A New Weapon

The arrows of Truth would rarely penetrate the vultures, but they hurt them enough to drive them back. Every time they were driven back some of us would climb to the next level. When we reached the level called "Galatians Two Twenty," we were above the altitude that the vultures could fly. At this level the sky above almost blinded us with its brightness and beauty. I felt peace like I had never felt it before.

Previously much of my fighting spirit had really been motivated out of as much hatred and disgust for the enemy as it had been for the sake of the kingdom, truth, and love for the prisoners. But it was on this level that I caught up to Faith, Hope, and Love, which before I had only been following at a distance. On this level I was almost overpowered by their glory. When I caught up to them they turned to me, and began repairing and shining my armor. Soon it was completely transformed and exuded the glory that was in them. When they touched my sword, great bolts of brilliant lightning began flashing from it. Love then said, "Those who reach this level are entrusted with the powers of the age to come, but I must teach you how to use them."

The "Galatians Two Twenty" level was so wide that there was no longer any danger of falling. There were also unlimited arrows with the name Hope written on them. We shot some of them down at the vultures, and these arrows killed them easily. About half who had reached this level kept shooting while the others began carrying these arrows down to those still on the lower levels.

The vultures kept coming in waves upon the levels below, but with each one there would be fewer than before. From "Galatians Two Twenty" we could hit any enemy in the army except the leaders themselves, who were still out of range. We decided not to use the arrows of Truth until we had destroyed all of the vultures, because the cloud of depression they created made the truth less effective. This took a very long time, but we never got tired.

Faith, Hope and Love, who had grown like our weapons with each level, were now so large that I knew people far beyond the battle area could see them. Their glory even radiated into the camp of prisoners who were still under a great cloud of vultures. The exhilaration continued to grow in all of us. I felt that being in this army, in this battle, had to be one of the greatest adventures of all time.

 

[Dave-W]

I have tried to read Joyner but cannot any more. While I believe he may have several good insights on certain things, IMO he is out of line by exalting his own “gift,” prophecy, above everything else. Plus he gets very judgemental against those who downplay prophecy.

Sorry, but I cannot read or listen to him at all.

 

[DennisTate]

I have tried to read Joyner but cannot any more. While I believe he may have several good insights on certain things, IMO he is out of line by exalting his own “gift,” prophecy, above everything else. Plus he gets very judgemental against those who downplay prophecy.

Sorry, but I cannot read or listen to him at all.

Thank you for giving me your take on his ministry. I still find great encouragement from several of his books.

 

[DennisTate]

Here is the link to his book in writing:

The Call Rick Joyner

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have tried to read Joyner but cannot any more. While I believe he may have several good insights on certain things, IMO he is out of line by exalting his own “gift,” prophecy, above everything else. Plus he gets very judgemental against those who downplay prophecy.

Sorry, but I cannot read or listen to him at all.

No, I don't believe a word of it either. If things ain't been already inspired in the Bible, then if the guy saying God spoke to Him and gave him the new "revelations" then what he is saying is equal to Scripture, which is nonsense. This is an example of a "superduper" dreaming stuff out of his own head and calling it revelation from God. Proverbs 30:6 says that God Himself will come and rebuke people like him and expose them as liars. Also, Ezekiel as a lot to say about guys dreaming stuff up. The Lord says through him that these things are nothing but divination and He is right against them and will destroy them to the point where they will be totally excluded from the household of faith!

 

[K2K]

The Bible explain that His sheep hear His voice. The Bible explains that we would get dreams and visions. There is also something written about Jesus telling the Jews they were searching the Scriptures for eternal life instead of coming to Him, and He also explained that His words are spirit and are life.

The first words the Lord told me were "Read Your Bible" and I noticed all the above in it. How could anyone not? So I expect Christians to get dreams, visions, and hear the voice of the Lord. How could they not? Are they searching the Scriptures thinking in them they have life, like the Jews who hung Jesus Christ on a piece of wood. Paper is made of wood. The Bible is made of paper, but His words are spirit.

Now the Lord specifically lead me to "The Final Quest" after I finished reading the Bible for the first time. It was an extremely useful book to me at that time. It plainly showed that there were people who got visions and dreams, and people who did hear His voice, just like it was written in the Bible, which I had just read completely through.

Now, I read and enjoyed some of Rick Joyner' other books and writings, but I don't much anymore. They are still good, they still have purpose, but the purpose for their writing is to help bring people into a closer relationship with the Lord for themselves. It is not that anyone should know God through Rick Joyner but that they should know the Lord like Rick Joyner. Early on I was still trying to get there, so his books were very helpful.

Now I get up in the morning and the Lord talks to Me. Sometimes He gives me a dream for me, before I get up and then He talks to me about that dream. He might give me a vision, and talk to me about it during the day. Mostly, we just talk. He often tells me He want me seeing with my spiritual eyes more during the day, and He often sends me angels to minister to me. God still uses things written by others, including the Bible, but if anyone is thinking it is about knowing the writings instead of knowing the Lord, they missed the point of the prophets who wrote the Bible and even the prophets sent today that say the same thing. You need to know the Lord - that's what Moses, Isaiah, Paul, and Joyner have all been telling you. If someone really knows the Lord they would know that.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

God still uses things written by others, including the Bible, but if anyone is thinking it is about knowing the writings instead of knowing the Lord, they missed the point of the prophets who wrote the Bible and even the prophets sent today that say the same thing.

Imagining that believers are doing that is part of the sly deception of the "signs and wonders" movement, as if Scripture is mere starting point to become an ascended master. One does not graduate from God's breathed-out Word into the musings of Rick Joyner & Co. The sad fact is that the larger portion of believers aren't even reading Scripture, or very little as they get it trickled out in silly topical sermons.

No, as Paul said, Scripture is USEFUL. It gives one the ability to test EVERYTHING. Your dreams and reports of angels end up getting tested by the Word. They are inferior, not superior methods of hearing from God.

Moses, Isaiah, Paul, and Joyner

One of these things is NOT like the others.

 

[K2K]

Imagining that believers are doing that is part of the sly deception of the "signs and wonders" movement, as if Scripture is mere starting point to become an ascended master. One does not graduate from God's breathed-out Word into the musings of Rick Joyner & Co. The sad fact is that the larger portion of believers aren't even reading Scripture, or very little as they get it trickled out in silly topical sermons.

No, as Paul said, Scripture is USEFUL. It gives one the ability to test EVERYTHING. Your dreams and reports of angels end up getting tested by the Word. They are inferior, not superior methods of hearing from God.



One of these things is NOT like the others.

The book Revelation, appeared to be a kind of "signs and wonders", as did he writings of Isaiah, Ezekiel, Joel, and others. There is really only one good way to know and that is to personally know Jesus Christ as the Word of God. They knew Jesus Christ as the Word of God. But if you don't listen to the Lord then the word of God to you is going to have to be the lines upon lines of text only, because you don't hear His voice. Isaiah explained this:

Is 28:12,13 He who said to them, "Here is rest, give rest to the weary," and "Here is repose," but they would not listen. So the word of the Lord to them will be, "Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there," That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive

You see, Isaiah listen to the Lord and thus he knew that if you didn't listen the word of the Lord to you would have to be those lines upon lines of text. And Isaiah sought the King who had a kingdom and found it because all who seek find.

Is 6:1 I saw the Lord sitting on a throne... Seraphim stood above Him...

John knew listened to the Lord and so he knew Him as Word of God - Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God, He was in the beginning with God.

And because John knew our Lord, the King who has (not had) a kingdom, he found it.

Rev 19: 11-17 I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse... He is clothed with a robed dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God... on His thigh He has a name written, "KiING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Then I saw an angel... he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in mid heaven...

The Lord is not a has been, that we should say, Rm 10:7... WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?
Nor is the Lord in some far off place that we should say Rm 10:6 … WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?

The Kingdom of God, where our Lord reigns as King, is in our midst! Rm 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" -- that is, the word of faith which we are preaching.

So the word of faith we are preaching is not the ink on pages but that small voice that we find in our hearts and sometime on our lips, because God is spirit and so the words that he speaks to you are spirit.

Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life.... the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

So we can read the Bible and see that those who wrote it were trying to tell us about the King, Jesus Christ, and His kingdom. They were passing along information to get us to seek it. Yet there have always been those who don't enter in. They want to tell you all about their knowledge, but it is clear their knowledge did not come from seeking the King of kings, but only from the others who were always telling them to seek to find the King and the Kingdom of God.

Jesus told the Jews, " You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life (Jn 5:39,40)

There is nothing new under the sun. There were people like that and are people like that. Yes, the Spirit of God is not the only spirit about and about, and you need to test the spirits. But if someone is not seeking the King, whose name is called The Word of God, and His Kingdom (seek ye first the kingdom of God), they are not going to find it, and they are not going to testify about what they have seen. They are then going to be little those who do testify about it, and the word of the Lord to them is going to be the lines upon lines of text, because they just don't know the Lord of lords whose name is called the Word of God.

If I spell it out to them, will they then start seeking the King of kings? If I spell it out will they then start seeking the Kingdom of God and first like the bible explained? Will they consider pray with expectation, "Thy Kingdom Come?" All those who seek find, but they must truly seek the King who has a Kingdom. He is the One we call Jesus Christ, because He is God's salvation, but His name is called THE WORD OF GOD, and always has been.

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the Lord (Jesus Christ) came to Abram in a vision, saying...

Well it is spelled out, even in the very book called the Bible, that Abram got visions in which the Word of God came to him in and spoke to him in. So spiritually speaking, didn't Abram's off spring also get these "Sign's and Wonders". The Bible says they did and God has not changed. So it is that I get visions and dreams and hear from my Lord. I have seen Him on the throne. It's not that I get the exact same information as Abram, Isaiah, Ezekiel, John, or those today who know Him do. But one thing is clear, I have found the King of kings and the Kingdom of God. It is not of this world, just like Jesus told Pilot. And it is also clear that there are some who don't actually seek the King and the Kingdom of God but are depending on their personal knowledge of the Bible instead of their personal relationship with the Lord.

It's all explain in the very book they have put their faith in. The very book that tells them that their faith must be in Jesus Christ and that His name is called The Word of God. But it is hard to explain, because they don't listen, and it is hard to explain to them. That too was written in the very book they put their faith in.

Heb 5:11 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.

They are a stubborn people. Always learning but never finding the Lord. Is 5:12,13 But they do not pay attention to the deeds of the Lord, Nor do they consider the works of His hands. Therefore My people go into exile for their lack of knowledge

Many on that day will tell Him about the wonderful things they did in His name only to be told that He never knew them. If you do know Him and seek Him you are going to get things like those who also know Him. You will know that Rick Joyner knows Him, which is not so important to you. We don't follow him, nor those who wrote the Bible. We follow and put our faith in Jesus Christ, the Lord of lord's and King of kings. We get to know Him and thus the ministering spirits (angels) who serve Him and who He sends to us. We also test the spirits to make sure they do confess Him as their Lord, to make sure. We read the Bible, as He instructs, because He is our Teacher. We have seen Him do signs and wonders, because He is still God and on the throne. But most importantly, we listen to Him!! He is the Word of God to us, because we walk and talk to Him though out the day.

Is 30:21 "Your ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it," whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

That is how it is, or can be. It's just like the Bible explains, but it is not about knowing the bible. It is about knowing the King, our Lord, Jesus Christ - whose name is called The Word of God.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The book Revelation, appeared to be a kind of "signs and wonders", as did he writings of Isaiah, Ezekiel, Joel, and others. There is really only one good way to know and that is to personally know Jesus Christ as the Word of God. They knew Jesus Christ as the Word of God. But if you don't listen to the Lord then the word of God to you is going to have to be the lines upon lines of text only, because you don't hear His voice. Isaiah explained this:

Is 28:12,13 He who said to them, "Here is rest, give rest to the weary," and "Here is repose," but they would not listen. So the word of the Lord to them will be, "Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there," That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive

You see, Isaiah listen to the Lord and thus he knew that if you didn't listen the word of the Lord to you would have to be those lines upon lines of text. And Isaiah sought the King who had a kingdom and found it because all who seek find.

Is 6:1 I saw the Lord sitting on a throne... Seraphim stood above Him...

John knew listened to the Lord and so he knew Him as Word of God - Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God, He was in the beginning with God.

And because John knew our Lord, the King who has (not had) a kingdom, he found it.

Rev 19: 11-17 I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse... He is clothed with a robed dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God... on His thigh He has a name written, "KiING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Then I saw an angel... he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in mid heaven...

The Lord is not a has been, that we should say, Rm 10:7... WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?
Nor is the Lord in some far off place that we should say Rm 10:6 … WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?

The Kingdom of God, where our Lord reigns as King, is in our midst! Rm 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" -- that is, the word of faith which we are preaching.

So the word of faith we are preaching is not the ink on pages but that small voice that we find in our hearts and sometime on our lips, because God is spirit and so the words that he speaks to you are spirit.

Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life.... the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

So we can read the Bible and see that those who wrote it were trying to tell us about the King, Jesus Christ, and His kingdom. They were passing along information to get us to seek it. Yet there have always been those who don't enter in. They want to tell you all about their knowledge, but it is clear their knowledge did not come from seeking the King of kings, but only from the others who were always telling them to seek to find the King and the Kingdom of God.

Jesus told the Jews, " You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life (Jn 5:39,40)

There is nothing new under the sun. There were people like that and are people like that. Yes, the Spirit of God is not the only spirit about and about, and you need to test the spirits. But if someone is not seeking the King, whose name is called The Word of God, and His Kingdom (seek ye first the kingdom of God), they are not going to find it, and they are not going to testify about what they have seen. They are then going to be little those who do testify about it, and the word of the Lord to them is going to be the lines upon lines of text, because they just don't know the Lord of lords whose name is called the Word of God.

If I spell it out to them, will they then start seeking the King of kings? If I spell it out will they then start seeking the Kingdom of God and first like the bible explained? Will they consider pray with expectation, "Thy Kingdom Come?" All those who seek find, but they must truly seek the King who has a Kingdom. He is the One we call Jesus Christ, because He is God's salvation, but His name is called THE WORD OF GOD, and always has been.

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the Lord (Jesus Christ) came to Abram in a vision, saying...

Well it is spelled out, even in the very book called the Bible, that Abram got visions in which the Word of God came to him in and spoke to him in. So spiritually speaking, didn't Abram's off spring also get these "Sign's and Wonders". The Bible says they did and God has not changed. So it is that I get visions and dreams and hear from my Lord. I have seen Him on the throne. It's not that I get the exact same information as Abram, Isaiah, Ezekiel, John, or those today who know Him do. But one thing is clear, I have found the King of kings and the Kingdom of God. It is not of this world, just like Jesus told Pilot. And it is also clear that there are some who don't actually seek the King and the Kingdom of God but are depending on their personal knowledge of the Bible instead of their personal relationship with the Lord.

It's all explain in the very book they have put their faith in. The very book that tells them that their faith must be in Jesus Christ and that His name is called The Word of God. But it is hard to explain, because they don't listen, and it is hard to explain to them. That too was written in the very book they put their faith in.

Heb 5:11 Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.

They are a stubborn people. Always learning but never finding the Lord. Is 5:12,13 But they do not pay attention to the deeds of the Lord, Nor do they consider the works of His hands. Therefore My people go into exile for their lack of knowledge

Many on that day will tell Him about the wonderful things they did in His name only to be told that He never knew them. If you do know Him and seek Him you are going to get things like those who also know Him. You will know that Rick Joyner knows Him, which is not so important to you. We don't follow him, nor those who wrote the Bible. We follow and put our faith in Jesus Christ, the Lord of lord's and King of kings. We get to know Him and thus the ministering spirits (angels) who serve Him and who He sends to us. We also test the spirits to make sure they do confess Him as their Lord, to make sure. We read the Bible, as He instructs, because He is our Teacher. We have seen Him do signs and wonders, because He is still God and on the throne. But most importantly, we listen to Him!! He is the Word of God to us, because we walk and talk to Him though out the day.

Is 30:21 "Your ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it," whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

That is how it is, or can be. It's just like the Bible explains, but it is not about knowing the bible. It is about knowing the King, our Lord, Jesus Christ - whose name is called The Word of God.

I hope you are following the right Jesus.

 

[K2K]

I hope you are following the right Jesus.

Ask Him!!

His sheep know His voice. If I ever wonder about somebody all I have to do is talk to Him and listen. So who writes, "I hope you are following the right Jesus". Have we not read that the Spirit of God testifies. I don't know Rick Joyner. I have never seen him in person, I have never directly given money to his ministries, nor do I care what others think about Him, but I will testify that he knows the Lord, because my Lord testified about him. My Lord testifies about lots of people and unknown to others, He also testifies about those who don't know Him and pretend obedience to Him. Jesus Christ knows!

So I would never write or tell someone, "I hope you are following the right Jesus." I might tell them to test the spirit, if He has told me they are not following Him. The test is simple.

1 Jn 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.

Now that is a test for 'spirits', but the interesting thing about that test is that you personally have to use your spiritual ears to hear with! So there is a problem of leaning on our own understanding instead of using your spiritual ears.

What amazes me, is all the people saying they know and hear from the Lord but show no indication of actually hearing from Him when you listen to what they themselves say.

Again, I don't know Rick Joyner nor do I follow him. It's been years since I read any of his writings, but the Lord has testified to me about Him. And by what I did read, it's not surprising. Mr. Joyner also testifies about Jesus Christ, that He is alive and active. That He communicates with His people. That He gives them dreams and visions, and that His sheep hear His voice. Isn't that what you actually read when you read what he wrote. You don't have to understand all He wrote to see that. What bothers me are the people who claim to know the Lord and don't write those things. What's with that?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Ask Him!!

His sheep know His voice. If I ever wonder about somebody all I have to do is talk to Him and listen. So who writes, "I hope you are following the right Jesus". Have we not read that the Spirit of God testifies. I don't know Rick Joyner. I have never seen him in person, I have never directly given money to his ministries, nor do I care what others think about Him, but I will testify that he knows the Lord, because my Lord testified about him. My Lord testifies about lots of people and unknown to others, He also testifies about those who don't know Him and pretend obedience to Him. Jesus Christ knows!

So I would never write or tell someone, "I hope you are following the right Jesus." I might tell them to test the spirit, if He has told me they are not following Him. The test is simple.

1 Jn 4:1-3 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.

Now that is a test for 'spirits', but the interesting thing about that test is that you personally have to use your spiritual ears to hear with! So there is a problem of leaning on our own understanding instead of using your spiritual ears.

What amazes me, is all the people saying they know and hear from the Lord but show no indication of actually hearing from Him when you listen to what they themselves say.

Again, I don't know Rick Joyner nor do I follow him. It's been years since I read any of his writings, but the Lord has testified to me about Him. And by what I did read, it's not surprising. Mr. Joyner also testifies about Jesus Christ, that He is alive and active. That He communicates with His people. That He gives them dreams and visions, and that His sheep hear His voice. Isn't that what you actually read when you read what he wrote. You don't have to understand all He wrote to see that. What bothers me are the people who claim to know the Lord and don't write those things. What's with that?

There is only one Jesus and He is the One clearly described in the written Scriptures. There are references to Him all through the Old Testament, and there are four gospels that clearly describe Him, also, the rest of the New Testament leaves us in no doubt who the Jesus of the Bible is. If you are not basing your view of Jesus as He is in the written Scriptures, then you don't know Him at all.

You are saying that God has told you that Rick Joyner is fully supported by Jesus. This means that everything Mr Joyner teaches and prophesies complies with the written Scriptures absolutely with no deviation. Are you absolutely sure of that? Because if he does deviate from the written Scriptures, then the voice that purported to be the voice of God told you a lie, and God does not lie.

I don't know whether Mr Joyner's teaching and prophecies are consistent, or deviant from the written Scriptures, but then I make no claims, and no voice has spoken to me one way or another. Then again, I don't listen to voices that inspire things that are not already inspired in the Bible first.

 

[K2K]

There is only one Jesus and He is the One clearly described in the written Scriptures. There are references to Him all through the Old Testament, and there are four gospels that clearly describe Him, also, the rest of the New Testament leaves us in no doubt who the Jesus of the Bible is. If you are not basing your view of Jesus as He is in the written Scriptures, then you don't know Him at all.

You are saying that God has told you that Rick Joyner is fully supported by Jesus. This means that everything Mr Joyner teaches and prophesies complies with the written Scriptures absolutely with no deviation. Are you absolutely sure of that? Because if he does deviate from the written Scriptures, then the voice that purported to be the voice of God told you a lie, and God does not lie.

I don't know whether Mr Joyner's teaching and prophecies are consistent, or deviant from the written Scriptures, but then I make no claims, and no voice has spoken to me one way or another. Then again, I don't listen to voices that inspire things that are not already inspired in the Bible first.

An interesting response:

I asked you to ask Jesus Christ for yourself, but there is nothing in the response about you doing that. So let us indeed look at a few things in the Scriptures.

Mat 17:5 … This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!

First - it say that who-so-ever believes in Him shall be saved. Is your faith in Him, since you show no signs of talk and hearing from Him, or is it in your knowledge of the Scriptures?

Jesus told the Jews that they searched the Scriptures thinking in them they had eternal life instead of coming to Him. I advised you to seek Him, like the Scriptures tell you, but you went back to the Scriptures, why?




urn to searching the Scriptures and leaning on their own understanding. So instead of seeking the Lord for information, they lean on their own understanding of the Scriptures.

What does it mean, "Because if he does deviate from the written Scriptures, then the voice that purported to be the voice of God told you a lie, and God does not lie."?

How do you know if he deviated from the written Scriptures if you are not hearing from the Spirit for the correct interpretation. Was that not exactly the same problem we see with the Pharisees and Sadducees. Many other Christians have clearly come into disagreement with you, as can be seen in the OP and by the popular following of Christians that Mr. Joyner has.

Again, you'd be wrong if you think I am truly one who follows his writings, but I am one who hears from the Lord and can testify to that. I am also one who did read, as instructed by the same One who first told me to read the Bible, some of Mr. Joyner's books. They clearly testified about the Lord Jesus Christ and about picking up visions, dreams, and communication from Him. That I have not seen in the last couple of posts. So, just based on that, who should I think is actually hearing the voice of the Lord. The one who writes about hearing His voice or the person who does not testify to Jesus Christ, but only to searching the Scriptures?

And what you don't know is that it was the Lord who told me to keep coming back because a post was made that He wanted a response given to. Seek the Lord Jesus Christ and His voice and I won't be asked to keep making these long post to get you to listen to Him. Or have you not read:

Mat 17:5 … This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!

Now above we see written "f you are not basing your view of Jesus as He is in the written Scriptures, then you don't know Him at all."

I would agree with that, so anyone not hearing from Him and testifying to that does not "know Him at all", because the Bible clearly has Him as someone we hear from.

Now above we read, "I am truly one who follows his writings" but His writing explain that we don't follow the writings but the Lord, and Him by hearing His voice. So anyone saying they follow His writings instead of following His voice like the writings explain, are not doing what is written in the Scriptures!!!

Jn 10:4 When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow because they know his voice.

So there was a mistake being made by the Jews, that we read about in the Scriptures, and that mistake is not following Him by hearing His voice!!

Jn 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

So we don't "follow" the Scriptures. But rather we learn from the Scriptures that we follow the Lord Jesus Christ, and that by hearing His voice.

So I see where some are indeed not doing what the Scriptures have told them to do, in that they need to be listening to the Lord and doing what He asks of them, instead of leaning on their own understanding of the Scriptures.

Now, I have not read all that Mr. Joyner has written, and I have read anything of his for at least ten years now, but I never remember spotting such an obvious conflict with his writings and the Scriptures, as I just spotted. From what I remember he was trying to lead people to seeking communication from the Lord and he himself seemed to be trying to follow the Lord. As opposed to telling people to follow the Scriptures and lean on your own understanding of them.

Jesus told the Jews, Jn 5:46,47 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

There is a difference, as seen in the above verse, between the writing and His words. The difference, is that His words are personal, spoken to you personally, so that you can follow Him by listening to His voice. The writings of Rick Joyner always gave me that impression, but some seem to obviously be searching the Scriptures thinking that in them they have eternal life. They write that they follow the Scriptures, showing that they don't follow the Lord Jesus Christ. That's a problem.

 

[K2K]

There is only one Jesus and He is the One clearly described in the written Scriptures. There are references to Him all through the Old Testament, and there are four gospels that clearly describe Him, also, the rest of the New Testament leaves us in no doubt who the Jesus of the Bible is. If you are not basing your view of Jesus as He is in the written Scriptures, then you don't know Him at all.

You are saying that God has told you that Rick Joyner is fully supported by Jesus. This means that everything Mr Joyner teaches and prophesies complies with the written Scriptures absolutely with no deviation. Are you absolutely sure of that? Because if he does deviate from the written Scriptures, then the voice that purported to be the voice of God told you a lie, and God does not lie.

I don't know whether Mr Joyner's teaching and prophecies are consistent, or deviant from the written Scriptures, but then I make no claims, and no voice has spoken to me one way or another. Then again, I don't listen to voices that inspire things that are not already inspired in the Bible first.

An interesting response:

I asked you to ask Jesus Christ for yourself, but there is nothing in the response about you doing that. So let us indeed look at a few things in the Scriptures.

Mat 17:5 … This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!

First - it say that who-so-ever believes in Him shall be saved. Is your faith in Him, since you show no signs of talk and hearing from Him, or is it in your knowledge of the Scriptures?

Jesus told the Jews that they searched the Scriptures thinking in them they had eternal life instead of coming to Him. I advised you to seek Him, like the Scriptures tell you, but you went back to the Scriptures, why?




urn to searching the Scriptures and leaning on their own understanding. So instead of seeking the Lord for information, they lean on their own understanding of the Scriptures.

What does it mean, "Because if he does deviate from the written Scriptures, then the voice that purported to be the voice of God told you a lie, and God does not lie."?

How do you know if he deviated from the written Scriptures if you are not hearing from the Spirit for the correct interpretation. Was that not exactly the same problem we see with the Pharisees and Sadducees. Many other Christians have clearly come into disagreement with you, as can be seen in the OP and by the popular following of Christians that Mr. Joyner has.

Again, you'd be wrong if you think I am truly one who follows his writings, but I am one who hears from the Lord and can testify to that. I am also one who did read, as instructed by the same One who first told me to read the Bible, some of Mr. Joyner's books. They clearly testified about the Lord Jesus Christ and about picking up visions, dreams, and communication from Him. That I have not seen in the last couple of posts. So, just based on that, who should I think is actually hearing the voice of the Lord. The one who writes about hearing His voice or the person who does not testify to Jesus Christ, but only to searching the Scriptures?

And what you don't know is that it was the Lord who told me to keep coming back because a post was made that He wanted a response given to. Seek the Lord Jesus Christ and His voice and I won't be asked to keep making these long post to get you to listen to Him. Or have you not read:

Mat 17:5 … This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!

Now above we see written "f you are not basing your view of Jesus as He is in the written Scriptures, then you don't know Him at all."

I would agree with that, so anyone not hearing from Him and testifying to that does not "know Him at all", because the Bible clearly has Him as someone we hear from.

Now above we read, "I am truly one who follows his writings" but His writing explain that we don't follow the writings but the Lord, and Him by hearing His voice. So anyone saying they follow His writings instead of following His voice like the writings explain, are not doing what is written in the Scriptures!!!

Jn 10:4 When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow because they know his voice.

So there was a mistake being made by the Jews, that we read about in the Scriptures, and that mistake is not following Him by hearing His voice!!

Jn 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

So we don't "follow" the Scriptures. But rather we learn from the Scriptures that we follow the Lord Jesus Christ, and that by hearing His voice.

So I see where some are indeed not doing what the Scriptures have told them to do, in that they need to be listening to the Lord and doing what He asks of them, instead of leaning on their own understanding of the Scriptures.

Now, I have not read all that Mr. Joyner has written, and I have read anything of his for at least ten years now, but I never remember spotting such an obvious conflict with his writings and the Scriptures, as I just spotted. From what I remember he was trying to lead people to seeking communication from the Lord and he himself seemed to be trying to follow the Lord. As opposed to telling people to follow the Scriptures and lean on your own understanding of them.

Jesus told the Jews, Jn 5:46,47 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

There is a difference, as seen in the above verse, between the writing and His words. The difference, is that His words are personal, spoken to you personally, so that you can follow Him by listening to His voice. The writings of Rick Joyner always gave me that impression, but some seem to obviously be searching the Scriptures thinking that in them they have eternal life. They write that they follow the Scriptures, showing that they don't follow the Lord Jesus Christ. That's a problem.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

An interesting response:

I asked you to ask Jesus Christ for yourself, but there is nothing in the response about you doing that. So let us indeed look at a few things in the Scriptures.

Mat 17:5 … This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!

First - it say that who-so-ever believes in Him shall be saved. Is your faith in Him, since you show no signs of talk and hearing from Him, or is it in your knowledge of the Scriptures?

Jesus told the Jews that they searched the Scriptures thinking in them they had eternal life instead of coming to Him. I advised you to seek Him, like the Scriptures tell you, but you went back to the Scriptures, why?




urn to searching the Scriptures and leaning on their own understanding. So instead of seeking the Lord for information, they lean on their own understanding of the Scriptures.

What does it mean, "Because if he does deviate from the written Scriptures, then the voice that purported to be the voice of God told you a lie, and God does not lie."?

How do you know if he deviated from the written Scriptures if you are not hearing from the Spirit for the correct interpretation. Was that not exactly the same problem we see with the Pharisees and Sadducees. Many other Christians have clearly come into disagreement with you, as can be seen in the OP and by the popular following of Christians that Mr. Joyner has.

Again, you'd be wrong if you think I am truly one who follows his writings, but I am one who hears from the Lord and can testify to that. I am also one who did read, as instructed by the same One who first told me to read the Bible, some of Mr. Joyner's books. They clearly testified about the Lord Jesus Christ and about picking up visions, dreams, and communication from Him. That I have not seen in the last couple of posts. So, just based on that, who should I think is actually hearing the voice of the Lord. The one who writes about hearing His voice or the person who does not testify to Jesus Christ, but only to searching the Scriptures?

And what you don't know is that it was the Lord who told me to keep coming back because a post was made that He wanted a response given to. Seek the Lord Jesus Christ and His voice and I won't be asked to keep making these long post to get you to listen to Him. Or have you not read:

Mat 17:5 … This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!

Now above we see written "f you are not basing your view of Jesus as He is in the written Scriptures, then you don't know Him at all."

I would agree with that, so anyone not hearing from Him and testifying to that does not "know Him at all", because the Bible clearly has Him as someone we hear from.

Now above we read, "I am truly one who follows his writings" but His writing explain that we don't follow the writings but the Lord, and Him by hearing His voice. So anyone saying they follow His writings instead of following His voice like the writings explain, are not doing what is written in the Scriptures!!!

Jn 10:4 When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow because they know his voice.

So there was a mistake being made by the Jews, that we read about in the Scriptures, and that mistake is not following Him by hearing His voice!!

Jn 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

So we don't "follow" the Scriptures. But rather we learn from the Scriptures that we follow the Lord Jesus Christ, and that by hearing His voice.

So I see where some are indeed not doing what the Scriptures have told them to do, in that they need to be listening to the Lord and doing what He asks of them, instead of leaning on their own understanding of the Scriptures.

Now, I have not read all that Mr. Joyner has written, and I have read anything of his for at least ten years now, but I never remember spotting such an obvious conflict with his writings and the Scriptures, as I just spotted. From what I remember he was trying to lead people to seeking communication from the Lord and he himself seemed to be trying to follow the Lord. As opposed to telling people to follow the Scriptures and lean on your own understanding of them.

Jesus told the Jews, Jn 5:46,47 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

There is a difference, as seen in the above verse, between the writing and His words. The difference, is that His words are personal, spoken to you personally, so that you can follow Him by listening to His voice. The writings of Rick Joyner always gave me that impression, but some seem to obviously be searching the Scriptures thinking that in them they have eternal life. They write that they follow the Scriptures, showing that they don't follow the Lord Jesus Christ. That's a problem.

It seems that you have not done an exegesis of the verse you are quoting about those who search the Scriptures thinking they have eternal life through them. It looks to me that you have taken the verse right out of its original context and made it to apply to any person who searches the scriptures to see if what someone is teaching is really true. The Bereans in Acts did that to find out from the Scriptures whether what Paul was teaching was true. Your application of the verse would criticise the Bereans that they were searching the Scriptures instead of listening to the "voice" of Jesus.

You need to go and examine the verse in its context:
Who was Jesus talking to?
What was His intention?
How did those whom He was talking to understand what He was saying to them?

Then, you need to ask yourself the following questions:
Did the Bereans search the Scriptures for the same reasons?
If not, why were they searching the Scriptures?
How come they asked for a voice from God instead of going to the effort of searching the Scriptures?
Did Paul rebuke them for not hearing the voice of God instead of searching the Scriptures? If not, why not?
How is the verse in which Jesus said about searching the Scriptures applied to modern believers?
What would be your attitude to anyone searching the Scriptures to see if a teacher's teaching is really true?
Why did God inspire the writing of the Bible's authors to make it Holy Scripture?
Did Abraham, when he spoke to the rich man in hell, which did He say was more important? God's voice to the person, or the Holy Scriptures?
Why do you think that is so?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

An interesting response:

I asked you to ask Jesus Christ for yourself, but there is nothing in the response about you doing that. So let us indeed look at a few things in the Scriptures.

Mat 17:5 … This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!

First - it say that who-so-ever believes in Him shall be saved. Is your faith in Him, since you show no signs of talk and hearing from Him, or is it in your knowledge of the Scriptures?

Jesus told the Jews that they searched the Scriptures thinking in them they had eternal life instead of coming to Him. I advised you to seek Him, like the Scriptures tell you, but you went back to the Scriptures, why?




urn to searching the Scriptures and leaning on their own understanding. So instead of seeking the Lord for information, they lean on their own understanding of the Scriptures.

What does it mean, "Because if he does deviate from the written Scriptures, then the voice that purported to be the voice of God told you a lie, and God does not lie."?

How do you know if he deviated from the written Scriptures if you are not hearing from the Spirit for the correct interpretation. Was that not exactly the same problem we see with the Pharisees and Sadducees. Many other Christians have clearly come into disagreement with you, as can be seen in the OP and by the popular following of Christians that Mr. Joyner has.

Again, you'd be wrong if you think I am truly one who follows his writings, but I am one who hears from the Lord and can testify to that. I am also one who did read, as instructed by the same One who first told me to read the Bible, some of Mr. Joyner's books. They clearly testified about the Lord Jesus Christ and about picking up visions, dreams, and communication from Him. That I have not seen in the last couple of posts. So, just based on that, who should I think is actually hearing the voice of the Lord. The one who writes about hearing His voice or the person who does not testify to Jesus Christ, but only to searching the Scriptures?

And what you don't know is that it was the Lord who told me to keep coming back because a post was made that He wanted a response given to. Seek the Lord Jesus Christ and His voice and I won't be asked to keep making these long post to get you to listen to Him. Or have you not read:

Mat 17:5 … This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!

Now above we see written "f you are not basing your view of Jesus as He is in the written Scriptures, then you don't know Him at all."

I would agree with that, so anyone not hearing from Him and testifying to that does not "know Him at all", because the Bible clearly has Him as someone we hear from.

Now above we read, "I am truly one who follows his writings" but His writing explain that we don't follow the writings but the Lord, and Him by hearing His voice. So anyone saying they follow His writings instead of following His voice like the writings explain, are not doing what is written in the Scriptures!!!

Jn 10:4 When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow because they know his voice.

So there was a mistake being made by the Jews, that we read about in the Scriptures, and that mistake is not following Him by hearing His voice!!

Jn 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

So we don't "follow" the Scriptures. But rather we learn from the Scriptures that we follow the Lord Jesus Christ, and that by hearing His voice.

So I see where some are indeed not doing what the Scriptures have told them to do, in that they need to be listening to the Lord and doing what He asks of them, instead of leaning on their own understanding of the Scriptures.

Now, I have not read all that Mr. Joyner has written, and I have read anything of his for at least ten years now, but I never remember spotting such an obvious conflict with his writings and the Scriptures, as I just spotted. From what I remember he was trying to lead people to seeking communication from the Lord and he himself seemed to be trying to follow the Lord. As opposed to telling people to follow the Scriptures and lean on your own understanding of them.

Jesus told the Jews, Jn 5:46,47 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?

There is a difference, as seen in the above verse, between the writing and His words. The difference, is that His words are personal, spoken to you personally, so that you can follow Him by listening to His voice. The writings of Rick Joyner always gave me that impression, but some seem to obviously be searching the Scriptures thinking that in them they have eternal life. They write that they follow the Scriptures, showing that they don't follow the Lord Jesus Christ. That's a problem.

Duplicate post.

 

[K2K]

It seems that you have not done an exegesis of the verse you are quoting about those who search the Scriptures thinking they have eternal life through them. It looks to me that you have taken the verse right out of its original context and made it to apply to any person who searches the scriptures to see if what someone is teaching is really true. The Bereans in Acts did that to find out from the Scriptures whether what Paul was teaching was true. Your application of the verse would criticise the Bereans that they were searching the Scriptures instead of listening to the "voice" of Jesus.

You need to go and examine the verse in its context:
Who was Jesus talking to?
What was His intention?
How did those whom He was talking to understand what He was saying to them?

Then, you need to ask yourself the following questions:
Did the Bereans search the Scriptures for the same reasons?
If not, why were they searching the Scriptures?
How come they asked for a voice from God instead of going to the effort of searching the Scriptures?
Did Paul rebuke them for not hearing the voice of God instead of searching the Scriptures? If not, why not?
How is the verse in which Jesus said about searching the Scriptures applied to modern believers?
What would be your attitude to anyone searching the Scriptures to see if a teacher's teaching is really true?
Why did God inspire the writing of the Bible's authors to make it Holy Scripture?
Did Abraham, when he spoke to the rich man in hell, which did He say was more important? God's voice to the person, or the Holy Scriptures?
Why do you think that is so?

You have a lot of question - You should be asking the Lord those questions and listening to what He has to say to you!

The problem is that you don't seek the Lord and what He has to say, or you would have the answer.

It's not really hard. You ask, listen, and get answers. The Bible was written to explain this.

For example the work of God is that all should come to know the Son. So God had the Scriptures written so that you would come to know the Son, but you focus is on knowing the Scriptures.

The Lord once told me, "
WHAT TEACHER DOESN’T PUT A BOOK IN FRONT OF HIS STUDENTS TODAY; YET NOT JUST A BOOK BUT OVERHEAD TRANSPARENCIES, VISUALS, AND OTHER MATERIAL? FOR I TELL YOU TRULY, IF THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME THEY ARE NOT MY PUPIL, THEY ARE NOT MY STUDENT; I TELL YOU TRULY, THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLE UNLESS THEY ARE HEARING FROM ME. SO DON’T TELL THEM TO READ THE BOOK, THEM TO TAKE THE CLASS!”

So you ask "Why did God inspire the writing of the Bible's authors to make it Holy Scripture?

If you heard from Him you would understand that He made a text book, but that you still have to listen to Him to learn.

And you wrote :"Then, you need to ask yourself the following questions:"

But that is where you are really wrong. You don't ask yourself, because you have the Lord with you. So you ask Him. The very fact you think I should ask myself shows that is what you do when you have a question. What you should be doing is asking Him, not yourself. Of course, to ask Him you first have believe He is there to answer when you ask, and you don't believe that or you would have already been asking Him already. You certainly would have asked Him after I first brought up listening to Him.

Jesus told the Pharisees, Jn 8:43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My words.

You see, He was trying to tell them about hearing from Him, but they couldn't understand because they didn't hear the small voice inside. They knew the Scriptures and studied them, but they didn't seek the Lord and try to hear from Him.

Now you want to go to the context to make sense of what was written, but have you not read, Prov 2:6
For the Lord gives wisdom, from His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

So again, if you want to understand what the Lord was conveying in a particular verse, you ask Him and listen! He might bring up the context if He needs to, but there is nothing new under the sun. Jesus was talking to the "Jews" in John chapter five, but it applies to people today, otherwise there was no reason for God to keep a record of it in the bible today. So it applies to anyone who starts making it about searching the Scriptures as opposed to searching the mind of Christ by seeking His words on the subject via the Holy Spirit bring His words to our spirit.

So you want to talk about context back then, instead of the context we have today! God is still here with us today! And it is written over and over about "Today, if you hear His voice", because "Today" should always be the day you hear His voice.

Now from what I read of Rick Joyner's writings, which was over ten years ago, Rick understood exactly what I am talking about. I still have some music from His ministry and on it they make it clear that you have to know this God, you have to hear His voice. They had it, but some just can't figure it out. God is with you!! So listen to Him. He is not a book, He is a being who talks to you via His Holy Spirit to your spirit. And also read the textbook (the Bible) while you are at it. And ask Him about it! Ask Him about all the things going on in your life. Then listen!!

He has interesting things to say. Here are a few of my favorite things that He told me:

THE BEST LISTENERS MAKE THE BEST TEACHERS.

SHOULDN’T YOU HEAR FROM A MAN YOU’RE JUDGING WORTHY OF DEATH AND EXAMINE WHETHER THERE IS TRUTH IN WHAT HE SAYS. SO IT IS THAT I HAVE MADE HEARING FROM ME THE VERY THINGS THAT GIVES YOU ETERNAL LIFE.

IT'S NOT EASY LISTENING TO A ROCK. YOU HAVE TO LISTEN VERY CLOSE!

WE HEAR WISDOM, BUT IS IT THE HEARING OR THE ACTING UPON IT THAT MAKES A MAN WISE?

THESE BITS OF WISDOM ARE LIKE DROPS OF WATER. I WILL SURELY GIVE YOU A POND FULL.

You do need to know this God of ours. We call Him Jesus Christ, because He is God's salvation, but His name is called "The Word of God" because He has the words that God has for you. The Spirit takes those words that belong to Him and brings them to you. So you should have words from Him like that also. They might be songs, or poems, or parables, or stories, but He still is the Teacher, and if you know Him you will have words from Him that you can tell others.

Jn 3:11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

Even Jesus was just trying to tell people that they could seek and find God, but in the verse Jn 5:36 we see that they were searching the Scriptures instead of seeking God. Jesus Christ is God. If they had been seeking God, they would have known who He was when He was standing in front of them. Anna and Simeon knew who He was even though He was just a child in the flesh when He was before them.

So you asked "What would be your attitude to anyone searching the Scriptures to see if a teacher's teaching is really true?"

If you still haven't figured out what my answer what my attitude would be; I would be wondering why they didn't seek the voice of the Lord their God to find out if a teaching was really true? I would be thiking, 'Don't they know Him?' Don't they trust Him?' Can't they hear from Him?' But I might also be thinking that perhaps they did seek Him and He asked them to look up a Scripture because He wanted to talk to them about that Scriptures. He does do that sometimes. Yet since the question you asked didn't seem to suggest they heard from Him before hand, and it is written "Seek First the Kingdom of God", and since the question also seems to miss the fact the Jesus Christ is the Truth, I would think they probably are not seeking the Lord knowing He is the Truth and that He is with them always.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You have a lot of question - You should be asking the Lord those questions and listening to what He has to say to you!

The problem is that you don't seek the Lord and what He has to say, or you would have the answer.

I do have the answer. It is in God's written Word. The Bible was written as the result of God speaking to men. These men heard God's voice and they wrote down what they heard. Then God said in Proverbs 30:6, "Don't add to My Word, other wise I will come to you and expose you as a liar". The whole revelation that God has given to man is in the Bible. There is no further revelation.

It's not really hard. You ask, listen, and get answers. The Bible was written to explain this.

For example the work of God is that all should come to know the Son. So God had the Scriptures written so that you would come to know the Son, but you focus is on knowing the Scriptures.

You are contradicting yourself. You are saying that God inspired the Scriptures, by speaking to those who wrote it, so that through those written Scriptures they would come to know the Son, and yet you are saying that we should not know the Scriptures to know the Son!

The Lord once told me, "
WHAT TEACHER DOESN’T PUT A BOOK IN FRONT OF HIS STUDENTS TODAY; YET NOT JUST A BOOK BUT OVERHEAD TRANSPARENCIES, VISUALS, AND OTHER MATERIAL? FOR I TELL YOU TRULY, IF THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME THEY ARE NOT MY PUPIL, THEY ARE NOT MY STUDENT; I TELL YOU TRULY, THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLE UNLESS THEY ARE HEARING FROM ME. SO DON’T TELL THEM TO READ THE BOOK, THEM TO TAKE THE CLASS!”

I have the right to judge a prophecy that has been spoken publicly. I put it to you that this did not come from the Lord, but from your own mind. The Lord will never tell anyone not to read the Bible, or to listen to a voice instead of the Bible. Also, to say that a person is a disciple because they hear a voice purporting to be of God is totally false. The Scripture says, "By this you shall know that you are My disciples, that you love one another."

So you ask "Why did God inspire the writing of the Bible's authors to make it Holy Scripture?

Because that is the way He chose to communicate His plans, purposes and will to man, and for anyone to know His will, they need to read the Bible.

If you heard from Him you would understand that He made a text book, but that you still have to listen to Him to learn.

The Bible is not a text book, it is God's Word to man. When the Holy Spirit makes the written Word alive, then the Word becomes rhema which speaks to our spirit. The Holy Spirit never speaks apart from the written Word. He speaks through the written Word.

And you wrote :"Then, you need to ask yourself the following questions:"

But that is where you are really wrong. You don't ask yourself, because you have the Lord with you. So you ask Him. The very fact you think I should ask myself shows that is what you do when you have a question. What you should be doing is asking Him, not yourself. Of course, to ask Him you first have believe He is there to answer when you ask, and you don't believe that or you would have already been asking Him already. You certainly would have asked Him after I first brought up listening to Him.

I asked you those questions so that you will go to the written Word and answer them. But it seems that you would rather listen to your spirit guide voice rather than consult the written Word which is God's communication to man. Ignoring the Bible and depending on a spirit guide is occult, not the Holy Spirit.

Jesus told the Pharisees, Jn 8:43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My words.

The Old Testament Scriptures are full of prophecies about Jesus. He demonstrated that to the two disciples at Emmaeus. He went through the Scriptures and showed them. He directed them to the written Word. He did not say anything to them other than what was written in the Scriptures. The Pharisees had the Scriptures and they knew all the prophecies but they misinterpreted them because they had a different view of who their Messiah was going to be. Jesus spent time teaching them our of their own Scriptures who He was, but they would not believe His message. They would not believe that the prophecies He was showing them in the Scriptures were about Him.

You see, He was trying to tell them about hearing from Him, but they couldn't understand because they didn't hear the small voice inside. They knew the Scriptures and studied them, but they didn't seek the Lord and try to hear from Him.

This is not true. They had no small voice inside. They had the Scriptures. Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus, and in it Abraham told the rich man who found himself in hell, that if his five brothers did not believe the Law and the Prophets (the written Scriptures), it wouldn't make any difference even if someone rose from the dead and told them. So, the intention of Jesus for the Pharisees was that they needed to see Him through the written Scriptures rather than some inner spirit guide voice.

Now you want to go to the context to make sense of what was written, but have you not read, Prov 2:6
For the Lord gives wisdom, from His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

That's right. He spoke to men and they wrote down what He said. When we read the written Word along with the enlightenment of the Spirit it is the same as hearing the Word of His mouth, but not from the mouth of a spirit guide.

So again, if you want to understand what the Lord was conveying in a particular verse, you ask Him and listen! He might bring up the context if He needs to, but there is nothing new under the sun. Jesus was talking to the "Jews" in John chapter five, but it applies to people today, otherwise there was no reason for God to keep a record of it in the bible today. So it applies to anyone who starts making it about searching the Scriptures as opposed to searching the mind of Christ by seeking His words on the subject via the Holy Spirit bring His words to our spirit.

You are contradicting yourself again. You are saying that it was important to record the words of Jesus in the Bible so that we can know what He said then and what He is saying to us today, and yet you are saying that we should not consult that record, but close the book and listen for a voice to tell us the same thing! That doesn't make sense!

So you want to talk about context back then, instead of the context we have today! God is still here with us today! And it is written over and over about "Today, if you hear His voice", because "Today" should always be the day you hear His voice.

In the same book, it says that in times of old, God spoke through His prophets, but in these last days He speaks through His Son. So, to hear what Jesus is saying to us, we need to read in the written gospels what Jesus taught, and what Jesus inspired Paul to write in his epistles.
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).
This is God's voice speaking - through the written Scripture. Any voice that speaks apart from the Scripture is not of God at all.

Now from what I read of Rick Joyner's writings, which was over ten years ago, Rick understood exactly what I am talking about. I still have some music from His ministry and on it they make it clear that you have to know this God, you have to hear His voice. They had it, but some just can't figure it out. God is with you!! So listen to Him. He is not a book, He is a being who talks to you via His Holy Spirit to your spirit. And also read the textbook (the Bible) while you are at it. And ask Him about it! Ask Him about all the things going on in your life. Then listen!!

If Rick Joyner is giving "new" revelation that has not already been inspired by God in the written Scriptures, then he is teaching falsehood, because God has given strict instructions not to add to His written Word. Anyone who says "This is what the Lord is saying", just like the prophecy you received earlier in your post, is effectively giving Scripture, because when the Lord speaks it is Scripture. and so to be of the Lord it has to line up with what He has already inspired in the written Bible. If not, then it is not Scripture, and therefore the person saying "Thus says the Lord" is lying, because the Lord never said it. Instead, the person is speaking divination while pretending to speak on behalf of the Lord.

He has interesting things to say. Here are a few of my favorite things that He told me:

THE BEST LISTENERS MAKE THE BEST TEACHERS.

SHOULDN’T YOU HEAR FROM A MAN YOU’RE JUDGING WORTHY OF DEATH AND EXAMINE WHETHER THERE IS TRUTH IN WHAT HE SAYS. SO IT IS THAT I HAVE MADE HEARING FROM ME THE VERY THINGS THAT GIVES YOU ETERNAL LIFE.

IT'S NOT EASY LISTENING TO A ROCK. YOU HAVE TO LISTEN VERY CLOSE!

WE HEAR WISDOM, BUT IS IT THE HEARING OR THE ACTING UPON IT THAT MAKES A MAN WISE?

THESE BITS OF WISDOM ARE LIKE DROPS OF WATER. I WILL SURELY GIVE YOU A POND FULL.

This is not the Word of God at all. This is divination. What you are saying has never been inspired of God in the Bible.

You do need to know this God of ours. We call Him Jesus Christ, because He is God's salvation, but His name is called "The Word of God" because He has the words that God has for you. The Spirit takes those words that belong to Him and brings them to you. So you should have words from Him like that also. They might be songs, or poems, or parables, or stories, but He still is the Teacher, and if you know Him you will have words from Him that you can tell others.

I already have the full counsel of God and all the words that He is going to speak to me. They are all in my Bible. If I want to hear from Him, I will read my Bible or the writing of authors whose words are totally consistent with what God has already said in the Bible.

Jn 3:11 Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

This is not a word to me. It was spoken to those who were rejecting Jesus. This is using God's word out of context and applying it deceitfully.

Even Jesus was just trying to tell people that they could seek and find God, but in the verse Jn 5:36 we see that they were searching the Scriptures instead of seeking God. Jesus Christ is God. If they had been seeking God, they would have known who He was when He was standing in front of them. Anna and Simeon knew who He was even though He was just a child in the flesh when He was before them.

Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, not to the ordinary people. I think that you are not reading the Bible for your information but are listening to a spirit guide that is leading you astray.

So you asked "What would be your attitude to anyone searching the Scriptures to see if a teacher's teaching is really true?"

If you still haven't figured out what my answer what my attitude would be; I would be wondering why they didn't seek the voice of the Lord their God to find out if a teaching was really true? I would be thiking, 'Don't they know Him?' Don't they trust Him?' Can't they hear from Him?' But I might also be thinking that perhaps they did seek Him and He asked them to look up a Scripture because He wanted to talk to them about that Scriptures. He does do that sometimes. Yet since the question you asked didn't seem to suggest they heard from Him before hand, and it is written "Seek First the Kingdom of God", and since the question also seems to miss the fact the Jesus Christ is the Truth, I would think they probably are not seeking the Lord knowing He is the Truth and that He is with them always.

I think that your attitude to anyone searching the written Word to test the teaching of a preacher is that they are wrong in doing that and that they should listen to a voice instead, and that they would miss the truth.

This is the word of the Lord for those who listen to the voice occult spirit guides and say it is God's word to them. Be prayerful if in case it applies to you and that what God's says in the word does not come upon you.

This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing! Their visions are false and their divinations a lie. Even though the Lord has not sent them, they say, “The Lord declares,” and expect him to fulfill their words. Have you not seen false visions and uttered lying divinations when you say, “The Lord declares,” though I have not spoken? Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Because of your false words and lying visions, I am against you, declares the Sovereign Lord. My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign Lord (Ezekiel 13:3; 6-9).

 

[K2K]

I do have the answer. It is in God's written Word. The Bible was written as the result of God speaking to men. These men heard God's voice and they wrote down what they heard. Then God said in Proverbs 30:6, "Don't add to My Word, other wise I will come to you and expose you as a liar". The whole revelation that God has given to man is in the Bible. There is no further revelation.


You are contradicting yourself. You are saying that God inspired the Scriptures, by speaking to those who wrote it, so that through those written Scriptures they would come to know the Son, and yet you are saying that we should not know the Scriptures to know the Son!


I have the right to judge a prophecy that has been spoken publicly. I put it to you that this did not come from the Lord, but from your own mind. The Lord will never tell anyone not to read the Bible, or to listen to a voice instead of the Bible. Also, to say that a person is a disciple because they hear a voice purporting to be of God is totally false. The Scripture says, "By this you shall know that you are My disciples, that you love one another."


Because that is the way He chose to communicate His plans, purposes and will to man, and for anyone to know His will, they need to read the Bible.


The Bible is not a text book, it is God's Word to man. When the Holy Spirit makes the written Word alive, then the Word becomes rhema which speaks to our spirit. The Holy Spirit never speaks apart from the written Word. He speaks through the written Word.


I asked you those questions so that you will go to the written Word and answer them. But it seems that you would rather listen to your spirit guide voice rather than consult the written Word which is God's communication to man. Ignoring the Bible and depending on a spirit guide is occult, not the Holy Spirit.


The Old Testament Scriptures are full of prophecies about Jesus. He demonstrated that to the two disciples at Emmaeus. He went through the Scriptures and showed them. He directed them to the written Word. He did not say anything to them other than what was written in the Scriptures. The Pharisees had the Scriptures and they knew all the prophecies but they misinterpreted them because they had a different view of who their Messiah was going to be. Jesus spent time teaching them our of their own Scriptures who He was, but they would not believe His message. They would not believe that the prophecies He was showing them in the Scriptures were about Him.


This is not true. They had no small voice inside. They had the Scriptures. Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus, and in it Abraham told the rich man who found himself in hell, that if his five brothers did not believe the Law and the Prophets (the written Scriptures), it wouldn't make any difference even if someone rose from the dead and told them. So, the intention of Jesus for the Pharisees was that they needed to see Him through the written Scriptures rather than some inner spirit guide voice.

That's right. He spoke to men and they wrote down what He said. When we read the written Word along with the enlightenment of the Spirit it is the same as hearing the Word of His mouth, but not from the mouth of a spirit guide.


You are contradicting yourself again. You are saying that it was important to record the words of Jesus in the Bible so that we can know what He said then and what He is saying to us today, and yet you are saying that we should not consult that record, but close the book and listen for a voice to tell us the same thing! That doesn't make sense!


In the same book, it says that in times of old, God spoke through His prophets, but in these last days He speaks through His Son. So, to hear what Jesus is saying to us, we need to read in the written gospels what Jesus taught, and what Jesus inspired Paul to write in his epistles.
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).
This is God's voice speaking - through the written Scripture. Any voice that speaks apart from the Scripture is not of God at all.


If Rick Joyner is giving "new" revelation that has not already been inspired by God in the written Scriptures, then he is teaching falsehood, because God has given strict instructions not to add to His written Word. Anyone who says "This is what the Lord is saying", just like the prophecy you received earlier in your post, is effectively giving Scripture, because when the Lord speaks it is Scripture. and so to be of the Lord it has to line up with what He has already inspired in the written Bible. If not, then it is not Scripture, and therefore the person saying "Thus says the Lord" is lying, because the Lord never said it. Instead, the person is speaking divination while pretending to speak on behalf of the Lord.


This is not the Word of God at all. This is divination. What you are saying has never been inspired of God in the Bible.


I already have the full counsel of God and all the words that He is going to speak to me. They are all in my Bible. If I want to hear from Him, I will read my Bible or the writing of authors whose words are totally consistent with what God has already said in the Bible.


This is not a word to me. It was spoken to those who were rejecting Jesus. This is using God's word out of context and applying it deceitfully.


Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, not to the ordinary people. I think that you are not reading the Bible for your information but are listening to a spirit guide that is leading you astray.


I think that your attitude to anyone searching the written Word to test the teaching of a preacher is that they are wrong in doing that and that they should listen to a voice instead, and that they would miss the truth.

This is the word of the Lord for those who listen to the voice occult spirit guides and say it is God's word to them. Be prayerful if in case it applies to you and that what God's says in the word does not come upon you.

This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing! Their visions are false and their divinations a lie. Even though the Lord has not sent them, they say, “The Lord declares,” and expect him to fulfill their words. Have you not seen false visions and uttered lying divinations when you say, “The Lord declares,” though I have not spoken? Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Because of your false words and lying visions, I am against you, declares the Sovereign Lord. My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign Lord (Ezekiel 13:3; 6-9).

Rm 10:6 but the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN? (that is, to bring Christ down)

Rm 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" that is, the word of faith which we are preaching.

The Bible can and does point you to the Lord. It explains that the Word of God we are preaching is found in your heart and in your mouth. The reason is simple, and is because the Spirit of God speaks to our spirit, which is exactly how those who wrote the Bible heard from the Lord. They were trying to tell you/us to seek Him and listen to Him, but not all do that.

Jn 5:39 You search the Scriptures thinking in them you have eternal life, it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Reading and searching the Scriptures is not the same things as hearing from the Lord. You might hear from the Lord while reading or studying the Scriptures, just like you might hear someone talking to you while you are reading something, but the reading is not the hearing. They are separate things.

Now if a person does not listen to the Lord, then the Scriptures are then the only words of God they have. So the word of God to them will be the lines upon lines of text in the Scriptures becomes the word of God to them, as opposed to the Lord.

Is 28: 12,13 … And, "Here is repose," but they would not listen. So the word of the Lord to them will be, "Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line... That they may go stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.

The Pharisees and Sadducees, and even the Jews in general did not listen to the words of the Lord, but they did read and study the Scriptures. If they had believed the Scriptures, which they studied, they would have sought the voice of the Lord, but they didn't believe that hearing the Lord was possible. To them God was either dead, or more like in some far off place called heaven. People think that way. They say in their heart that God is not near, but is far away in heaven, so they don't seek Him and His voice. So the Word of the Lord to them was "order on order, order on order, line on line, line on line, a little here, a little there.

So they say they have the answers in the Scriptures, but the Scriptures explains that our help comes from above. The Scriptures explain that the Lord speaks and we need to seek Him and listen to Him. So the Scriptures do point you to the One who has the answers, but you must believe that Jesus Christ does indeed exists as the Word of God, the One who you can hear from via the Holly Spirit. We need what He has to say to us.

He once told me, "Karl, they call me Wonderful Counselor, and so I am. But I am not a wonderful counselor to those that does listen to Me."

In that case they look to the Scriptures, but that only leads them to their own understanding and worse, because if they don't listen to the Lord and seek His voice, there is another who will also talk to you about the Scriptures. Satan quoted Scriptures to Jesus, so he will be glade to quote you Scriptures also. This is why Jesus was right in telling the Pharisees that their father was the devil. But they didn't know. They didn't understand. That because they did hear the words of God, though they did study the Scriptures and considered themselves experts on the Scriptures and traditions of the day.

Again, we see this all if we read the Bible, but if you read it and don't believe what is written you are bound to wind up just like them. If you do believe the Scriptures you will seek the Lord Jesus Christ and listen for Him. The Spirit, who does not speak on His own initiative will act like a living phone line and put your spirit in touch with the Lord and will hear words in your spirit. We tend to call those words, 'the small voice'. But the person say the Bible is talking to them, what do they know about that small voice.

That small voice of the Lord is very personal. He tells you, "I love you." You might read that God is love in the Scriptures, but it does not say to you personally, "I love you."

That small voice gives you personal instructions. Are you suppose to part the Red Sea, the bible has someone getting that instruction? Perhaps you need to go to Jericho and walk around in, that is in the Bible? So they say, "I follow the Bible" but they are only following their own thoughts. The Lord's thoughts are not your thoughts! A person would know that if they indeed were hearing from Him.

So they write, "I follow the bible" when the bible tells them to follow the Lord and they can't understand the difference. They are like those Jesus spoke to and said:

Jn 8:43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

If a person does indeed hear from the Lord and thus know Him, they will know what I am talking about. They would also recognize that Rick Joyner is a man seeking the voice of the Lord. All Christians show understand this, but not all who are "Christians", know the Lord. Anymore than all Jews when Jesus came to earth knew the Lord. Anna knew. Simon knew. The Pharisees didn't know Him. They could have, if they had just sought Him instead of leaning on their own understanding. But as it is they don't know the Lord. They search the Scriptures thinking in them they have eternal life. Sadly many will tell the Lord about the things they did in His name only to be told that He never knew them.

If you know Him, you know Him. You would have many things that He has personally told you. Perhaps you could write a book like Rick Joyner, if the Lord told you to. You could tell others about conversation you have with the Lord, because you do have conversations with the Lord. But if you don't know Him, you can only reference what those before you heard from Him, but they said Is 1:2 "Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; for the Lord speaks"-- but some read but don't believe what they read so they don't seek and they don't listen.

Now I have gone over it, like they have gone over it. I little do they know that I go over and over it because the Lord keeps telling me to do it. He is patient with them. Perhaps some day, before it is too late, they will reconsider and seek the voice of the Lord. Perhaps some day, if I write a lot, they will believe that the Lord really is all that is written about Him. He is omni-present. He speaks. He wants you to seek Him and listen to Him. He wants you to listen, so very much. He created us to have fellowship with Him personally. Reading the Bible is no more having fellowship with Him than reading a book written by a dead author is having fellowship with them. The Lord lives. The Lord speaks. So listen!!

Ps 94:7... Today, fi you would hear His voice
1 Sam 12:14 If you will fear the Lord and serve Him, and listen to His voice
Prov 8:1 Does not wisdom call, and understanding lift up her voice.
Ezek 3:6.7 … But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me
Ps 81:8 "Hear, O My people, and I will admonish you; O Israel, if you would listen to Me!"
Ps 81:11 "But My people did not listen to My voice
Ps 81:13 Oh that My people would listen to Me,
Ps 81:15 Those who hate the Lord would pretend obedience to Him

So they say they get their answers from the Bible, when the Bible makes is clear that we need to listen to Him. He will have you read your Bible, but if you think reading the Bible is hearing from Him, you just don't listen to Him.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

To hear from God in the written down word and to believe by faith is superior. God’s written down word has endured millennia and can be SHARED. It was lifeless to those the Lord rebuked because they were unbelieving. We are not.