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The Book of Enoch?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Devin P, Aug 15, 2017.

  1. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

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    No, not Orthodox as to naming me...Happy for you, though : )
     
  2. MariaJLM

    MariaJLM Crazy Cat Lady

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    Orthodox as in Eastern Orthodox.
     
  3. Jipsah

    Jipsah Blood Drinker

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    That Book of Enoch you so revere is a tissue of lies.

    You know the USDA had a certain amount of rat feces that they allow in processeed meat before they consider it unfit for human consumption. For my part, I don't want any rat poop in my hot dog at all. Now there's a considerable quantity of the equivalent of rat feces in "Enoch", which is to say a lot of stuff that is simply untrue. Untrue, as in false, contrary to fact, not corresponding to reality, bogus, phony, mendacious, fabricated, concocted, trumped up, specious, and that just ain't so. For some reason that doesn't bother you, and so you take roughly the same position on lies in what you consider holy writ that the USDA takes on rat dung in hot dogs. You just don't reckon it's enough to be concerned about.

    Neither. But for the sake of drill, be good enough to point out any (or all, if you have the leisure) heresies or heterodox beliefs held by the Anglican communion. Who knows, you may persuade me that I need to disassociate myself with them. I'll accept the 39 Articles and the BCP (1662) as authoritative as touching Anglican beliefs. Youtube prophets and "somebody said" will be given the horselaugh they deserve.

    Unless you've become a Roman Catholic since you posted that then your charge kind of rings hollow. <Laugh>

    Pot, kettle, black.

    While your sect was founded by lesser sinners, is that it? Or at leeast sinners whose known sins were less egregious, right? BTW, how much do you reckon King Harry contributed to the dogma of the Anglican Church?

    As to "hilariously false" how about an example, por favor. I pointed out specific hilarious falsehoods in "Enoch" (you have to admit that the sun turning north every night is a right knee-slapper), but you haven't given any examples of any falsehood, hilarious or otherwise, held by Anglicans. Do you actually know of any, or was this just your equivalent of "neener neener neener, your church sucks"?

    And even if the Anglican Communion is a sink of depravity, "Enoch" is still a steaming pile. You wanna believe a work of pure fiction, be my guest, but spare me the pontifical posturing.

    I live in a No Rat Poop zone. Go thou and do likewise.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  4. Jipsah

    Jipsah Blood Drinker

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    The time is when, then? Doesn't "at hand" generally mean "real soon"? Hmmmm...
     
  5. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

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    Rev 22:10
    And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
    The Revelation of Jesus Christ is here....the Gospel age is now. The revealing of Jesus Christ to the world is now, to those who receive, and the world who has not received will quickly/very soon, see the revelation of Jesus Christ, and the events John saw will unfold so quickly and immediately that no one will be able to hide from those things...

    they will happen fast
    soon
    quickly
    without remedy -no time to escape it
    coming upon the whole world
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
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  6. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith I'm Currently An Eastern Orthodox Catechumen Supporter

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    I actually got most of my Early Church Writer / Church Father Quotes from This Coptic Orthodox Forum Tasbeha .org :

    The Book of Enoch - Page 3



    I posted them here:

    The Book of Enoch?



     
  7. SummaScriptura

    SummaScriptura Forever Newbie

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  8. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith I'm Currently An Eastern Orthodox Catechumen Supporter

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  9. SummaScriptura

    SummaScriptura Forever Newbie

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    Your browser is failing to download some images. It is not under construction. What country do you reside in?
     
  10. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith I'm Currently An Eastern Orthodox Catechumen Supporter

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    America. I'm on a Mac. I wonder if that is why.

    Most of them show though.

    52 of them show and 12 don't.
     
  11. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    It is a shame how institution has [purposefully, or ignorantly] denied so many of the spiritual truth. This is why one must have an intimate relationship with the Father - not a zealotry of canonical text and dogma. He will teach us everything. You also have to have the courage to trust Him, despite what other people say.
     
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  12. Jipsah

    Jipsah Blood Drinker

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    The real shame is that people still manage to get caught up in the arrant claptap written in "Enoch". How many lies per page can anyone stand?
     
  13. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    Enoch isn't the only text which was taken out of canon institutionally.

    Why let other humans tell you what, and how to think? No one - institution, human, principality or archons - is going to keep me from knowing everything I can about my Father. I know (with faith) He will correct me, refine what I understand, and lead me to clarity and truth.

    When institutions decide which holy books are inspired, or good for canonicity (canonicity itself is ridiculous), they eliminate the need for faith. You should have enough faith in your Father to trust He will lead you in the right direction no matter what you are exposed to. Additionally, we should also not be ignorant or naive about the incredible hand institution has in destroying souls.

    Claptrap, for example, is saying the Most High God reneged on His holy Law, or that we should ignore 1/2 of the canon because some of us don't share genetics of the Hebrews - even though the Most High God is no respecter of persons, and genetics no longer guarantee salvation. There is a lot to claptrap said in this world, but it is what people hear the most that is the trash.

    You cannot live on canonicity alone; the Word of God Himself is a Living entity, not just words and ink.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
  14. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Economist & Engineer

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    What do you mean by "institutionally taken out" of the canon?

    Yet here you are trying to make an argument, be persuasive, convince him, or something... Doesn't your mere act of posting a reply violate your principle?
     
  15. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what I said.



    No; it makes my point. You should have enough faith in your Father to be exposed to anything, and be directed in the direction of Truth and Life (the Redeemer). That means no institution should be putting in/taking out, and making decrees about the spiritual base of knowledge each sovereign human being should receive.

    That also means you should be able to entertain anything without necessarily accepting it. It is spiritually criminal to claim that a collection of books chosen by men (associated with a charmingly egregious history) are the inspired books of the Most High God when the Word of God is a Living entity - not a canonical text - that was come in the flesh as Son of Man.

    Let me repeat: the Word of God Himself is a Living entity - not a text, dogma or institution. People should follow the Word of God Himself. Everything said to us should be measured by the strength of the Word of the Most High God - who promised to put His Laws and Statutes on our hearts so that we won't have teach our neighbors about the Most High God - it will be ingrained in us (He will be literally in us as the Word of God Himself). That is the New Contract/Covenant the Most High God has made with us. We remember Him (follow Him and obey Him), and He will forgive our iniquity and remember our sin no more.

    The book of Enoch is one book in a library of texts that shed epic light on the alleged contradictions, impossibilities and errors in the canonical text. It may take work to divide the truth, and converse with your Father about what is Truth before you actually filter what you need. However, that is part of our lot as those who choose to come to the Most High God - not the institution. We are responsible for the trajectory of our soul, and how ignorant we remain. We are supposed to come to a genuine relationship of understanding and love: it is a unique process between the individual and the Father.
     
  16. Jipsah

    Jipsah Blood Drinker

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    It was never in the canon.

    Hence you can believe that Batman comics are a source of eternal truth if it suits you.

    Claptrap is also when one hypes as holy writ that would have you believe that the sun moves north to return to the east to as to rise at the east of somewhere. And claims that a "holy angel" provided that information. If that isn't claptrap then there ain't a cow in Texas, and "Enoch" is replete with that sort of goobledygook.

    You might be better off searching for eternal truths in that comic book I spoke of. You wouldn't be very much worse off.
     
  17. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    It is still in the Ethiopian canon. It isn't Jewish canon because the Hebrews abandoned their stations, and let outsiders infiltrate their ranks. But, we are ignoring that to fit your point, yes (despite the Word of God Himself saying this)?

    You act like I am pulling something out of my behind when I mention Enoch - it goes way beyond the Redeemer and Jude mentioning him once.

    That is what I thought. You have a vendetta against hearing the name of the book itself. I say that because you have inserted a bunch of things I have never actually alluded to, or said - yet it is part of your rationale.

    You still didn't address anything I said. I also know why; all you have is institutional prejudice and a chip on your shoulder.


    The Most High God is the Truth - as is His Son The Word of God Himself (who He gave all things to). They are the only Entities that rule me, and I trust my Father to guide me in the right direction, not to deceive me, and to enlighten me if I come to Him according to His will. But, I get the tone of your remark; I just wanted you to know the truth.


    I responded to you against my better judgment - because I am trying to be open to people I know won't receive it... mainly for onlookers.

    I am better off conversing with someone else. Cheers.
     
  18. Jipsah

    Jipsah Blood Drinker

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    Sorry, I can't figure out what you said there
    .

    Enoch is observably false. 'Nuff said.

    Even the name is false. The patriarch Enoch likely had nothing to do with it. Certainly the angels which it credits as sources didn't, they'd have had no need to lie.

    I have a very simple "prejudice" against "Enoch" because it is observably and egregiously false. Not just inadvertently getting some stuff wrong, but totally making stuff up out of while cloth. It's a work of fiction, and no more worth being considered holy writ than a science fiction novel.

    Yep. And "Enoch" is a fraud, a work of fiction being passed off as genuine,

    There's no truth to be had in "Enoch".

    Probably so, especially if you're trying to present the steaming pile that is "Enoch" as a source of truth. It isn't, by any stretch of the imagination.
     
  19. Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

    Jude1:3Contendforthefaith I'm Currently An Eastern Orthodox Catechumen Supporter

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    Origen (184-253 A.D.) mentions The Angel Raphael in his work "De Principils - Chapter 8 - On The Angels - PP 265-266"

    ...or are we to suppose that it is the result of accident that a particular office is assigned to a particular angel: as to Raphael, e.g., the work of curing and healing; to Gabriel, the conduct of wars; to Michael, the duty of attending to the prayers and supplications of mortals. For we are not to imagine that they obtained these offices otherwise than by their own merits, and by the zeal and excellent qualities which they severally displayed before this world was formed; so that afterwards in the order of archangels, this or that office was assigned to each one, while others deserved to be enrolled in the order of angels, and to act under this or that archangel, or that leader or head of an order.

    ANF04. Fathers of the Third Century: Tertullian, Part Fourth; Minucius Felix; Commodian; Origen, Parts First and Second - Christian Classics Ethereal Library


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    And these are The Names of The Holy Angels who watch. Uriel , one of the holy angels, who is over the world and over Tartarus. Raphael , one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men. Raguel , one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on† the world of the luminaries. Michael , one of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind and over chaos. . Saraqâêl , one of the holy angels, who is set over the spirits, who sin in the spirit. Gabriel , one of the holy angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim. Remiel , one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise.
    • 1 Enoch 20



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    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  20. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    For one thing there is a prophecy in the Book of Enoch that it would be lost for a long time...... and then found again in the Latter Days......
     
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