And who don't accept the unbiblical doctrine of sinless perfection. Now its being touted as something that God's followers will achieve at the end of time. So all those who went before did not need to apply for this condition?
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The belief of "Sinless Perfection"
- Thread starter reddogs
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Nothing novel here but the Bible certainly speaks of God's church as His bride. When you think of our walk with the Lord as a relational experience that is compared to marriage we can get a good perspective on what sinless perfection is all about.
I'm sure many of us are married so this will make sense. Think about the relationship you have with your spouse. Don't you expect sinless perfection from him/her when it comes to being totally devoted to you? What kind of arguement would it be to say to your wife. "You know honey I love you with all my heart, you have been my savior from the perils of single life since we got married but you know I can't stop committing adultery, or even stop looking at other women all the time! It's just so much a part of me and I naturally have this desire to do this with other women. You understand don't you honey? It's not what we do that keeps us married anyway right honey? " Your grace and forgiveness will carry me thru , I'm assured of that. I know that as long as I stay really focused on you my occasional spree won't cause us to lose our marriage, right honey? "
If we as sinful beings would expect sinless perfection and sexual purity from our mates why wouldn't the Lord expect the same thing in our relationship with Him?
God Bless
Jim Larmore
I'm sure many of us are married so this will make sense. Think about the relationship you have with your spouse. Don't you expect sinless perfection from him/her when it comes to being totally devoted to you? What kind of arguement would it be to say to your wife. "You know honey I love you with all my heart, you have been my savior from the perils of single life since we got married but you know I can't stop committing adultery, or even stop looking at other women all the time! It's just so much a part of me and I naturally have this desire to do this with other women. You understand don't you honey? It's not what we do that keeps us married anyway right honey? " Your grace and forgiveness will carry me thru , I'm assured of that. I know that as long as I stay really focused on you my occasional spree won't cause us to lose our marriage, right honey? "
If we as sinful beings would expect sinless perfection and sexual purity from our mates why wouldn't the Lord expect the same thing in our relationship with Him?
God Bless
Jim Larmore
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freeindeed2
In Christ We Are FREE!
Why don't you address the texts rather than trying to make it about the poster?
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I expect my spouse to be human, and being human she may make mistakes.... I do not expect perfection from my wife.....as for looking at other women, I look all the time, in fact sometimes we both look and comment sooooo....... IMO the analogy ain't workin....
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honorthesabbath
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So Stormy--if your wife would make the same adulterous 'mistake' everyday, what message is she sending your way? Oh I know--you do not expect perfection from her--ok--I got it.
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you are correct I am not expecting perfection... likewise if that were the issue, then I am sure I would deal with it the same way God deals with me when I sin.... forgive and forgive again....
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Sorry , I thought since it was an example God Himself placed in the Bible that it would work fine. So am I to take your comment that your ok with your wife having fantacies about making love with other men? Can she totally love you and only you when she is doing that? Is she also allowed to go and fulfill those fantacies when ever she wants brother?
Are you totally committed and loving to your wife when you have fantacies about making love to other women? Or are you saying that looking in your case is just "looking" and not fantacy at all?
God Bless
Jim Larmore
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Sinless perfection from your spouse? So those of you who are married, you are always in perfect agreement with everything your spouse says and does? Right? You never argue, never had a major disagreement, you always like what they do?
You got married and declared this person is never ever going to make a mistake and do something to upset me in this marriage. Yeah right.....
If I met a man who wanted a 'sinlessly perfect wife' I would run in the opposite direction, chances are he does not know what grace or forgiveness is. Plus I would ask Him what planet he hails from.
You got married and declared this person is never ever going to make a mistake and do something to upset me in this marriage. Yeah right.....
If I met a man who wanted a 'sinlessly perfect wife' I would run in the opposite direction, chances are he does not know what grace or forgiveness is. Plus I would ask Him what planet he hails from.
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Free, lets be real, a drug dealer can recognize someone dealing drugs 10 out of ten, thieves know another thief on first sight, pickpokets can spot another pickpocket in any crowd, you see where I am going with this.
So if anyone here wants to claim they are a 'saint' in this group, I would only even consider Sophia7 as coming within a stones throw of that standard and even she would box me around the ears for putting her on the pedestal....
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freeindeed2
In Christ We Are FREE!
What does this have to do with the fact that we have been sanctified in Christ?
I like how Bob Carlisle sang about 'saints'. The saints are just the sinners who fall down and get up.So if anyone here wants to claim they are a 'saint' in this group, I would only even consider Sophia7 as coming within a stones throw of that standard and even she would box me around the ears for putting her on the pedestal....
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According to sinless pefectionists saints are sinners who never ever fall down ever again. (If they do the were tripped)
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I would say you are an exceptional man brother. I don't know very many husbands that would allow their wife to go and have an adulterous affair everyday. My hat's off to you.
God Bless
Jim Larmore
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Here in the first commandment God tells us that He is a jealous God. He wants our total committment to Him. Just as a man wants total committment from his wife.
Does any of this make any sense or am I way off base here?
God Bless
Jim Larmore
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There are many who 'say' they have accepted Christ or many who 'claim' they follow Christ and give 'lip service' of how they love Christ, but really do not really have any relationship with Christ or follow what Christ asks of them:
- Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. - John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:14-16 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter) - John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:20-22 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter) - Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.John 12:47=50
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Commitment is one thing expecting the wife to behave sinlessly perfect when said husband is not perfect himself is another.
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looking is just looking not fantasizing....if she is fantasizing that is between she and God.... though we do joke with each other, and no I will not share cause you all would not understand.....
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Your trying to base behavior on the acts of another. That is not what God wants. When is it ever ok to justify sin because someone else sinned? If we are totally committed to our spouse and love them as a husband or wife is supposed to then we will not go looking for another even if they do stray.
The point I am trying to make here is this. You can't be totally devoted to the Lord and still harbor sin in your life. Just as you can't totally love and be committed to your spouse and go out and cheat on them. Behavior DOES MATTER to us and to the Lord.
God Bless
Jim Larmore
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not exceptional, everyone has their issue that they cannot stand, there are so many facets to the concept of adultery and its not always sexual. I would submit that anything that a person is emotionally attached to so that their relationship with their partner takes a back seat, is committing adultery..... so that might include work, church, working out etc.... If a person is working 20 out of 24 hours of everyday, then their adultery partner is their job, IMO.... the effect is the same, they are unavailable... but I digress.....I would say you are an exceptional man brother. I don't know very many husbands that would allow their wife to go and have an adulterous affair everyday. My hat's off to you.
God Bless
Jim Larmore
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I can appreciate what you are saying. I can admire God's handiwork in the beauty of another woman just as I can a beautiful flower. However, we both know that is not what I was talking about don't we? There is a big difference between a man looking at a woman innocently as he admires her beauty and a "man looking" at a woman to lust after her. Unless you are the world's most forgiving husband you would not allow your wife to go and have an adulterous affair each day of your married life just as she wouldn't allow you to.
Just as adultery is marrital impurity and takes a conscious decision to take part in so sin is spiritual impurity and also involves a conscious decision to take part in. We cannot be focused on a relationship with Christ and still sin with impunity. That would be like hugging and kissing your wife as you think about the little black book in your pocket and the women you will be with later after you leave your wife. Thats a fake love for her and it's a fake love for Christ as well. In the Bible it says it very well when the Lord says you can't serve God and mammon. It's one or the other.
God Bless
Jim Larmore
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