The Beginning

[Astrid]

They are at Disneyland.

And the rest of fantasyland

 

[Astrid]

When the story of creation begins, the earth, water, sun, moon and stars are already existing. I don’t know how long they were existing or how they came to exist. The earth must have existed for billions of years according to science. At the beginning of the creation story any life that had previously existed had become extinct and the earth as it is there is covered by water.
People assume that when it’s said “In the beginning God created heaven and earth” that it means that nothing existed before God created. They assume He created it out of nothing. However, it’s also said that God created man, but did He create man out of nothing? No. God created man from something that already exited…….dirt.
So it quite possible that before the creation as we know it today had been caused by something, even a big bang billions of year ago.

People assume all kinds of things.
Like that "god created" actually means something.

Some even think they know what it means.

 

[AV1611VET]

Some even think they know what it means.

Including Jesus?

Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

 

[One God and Father of All]

People assume all kinds of things.
Like that "god created" actually means something.

Some even think they know what it means.

“god created” means something to many, many, many people.
the word “create” means to build, shape, or form.
My point is that it does NOT mean to ”make from nothing” as many assume.
When it’s said God created man it means that God FORMED man from something that already existed. So, it was not out of nothing.
And when He created the heaven and earth nor was it out of nothing.

 

[driewerf]

“god created” means something to many, many, many people.
the word “create” means to build, shape, or form.
My point is that it does NOT mean to ”make from nothing” as many assume.
When it’s said God created man it means that God FORMED man from something that already existed. So, it was not out of nothing.
And when He created the heaven and earth nor was it out of nothing.

Ho? God created the Universe ex materia? And AV1611VET is posting hundreds of posts trying to convince us that the creation was ex nihilo, like his post (one out of many)

The Beginning

Stop with the time already. Forget time. God doesn't exist in or outside time. He is eternal. Which doesn't relate to time. Don't bother trying to conceptualise it - it's not humanly possible. And God, so I have been led to believe, is omnipotent. So there was nothing (and don't try to think...

www.christianforums.com

Can you guys please get your story straight?

 

[AV1611VET]

Ho? God created the Universe ex materia? And AV1611VET is posting hundreds of posts trying to convince us that the creation was ex nihilo, like his post (one out of many)

The Beginning

Stop with the time already. Forget time. God doesn't exist in or outside time. He is eternal. Which doesn't relate to time. Don't bother trying to conceptualise it - it's not humanly possible. And God, so I have been led to believe, is omnipotent. So there was nothing (and don't try to think...

www.christianforums.com

Can you guys please get your story straight?

You're linking me to the wrong post.

I didn't say that.

But for the record, I believe God created some things ex nihilo and some things ex materia.

Here's my creation test final:

1. Explain the difference between creatio ex nihilo and creatio ex materia; and give two examples of each.
2. Explain the difference between "God" and "LORD God".
3. Eden in the Bible is known as __________ on a secular map.
4. What literary device reconciles Genesis 1 and Genesis 2?
5. Put the following in order that they appeared in the universe: whales, stars, trees, sun, land, sea, outer space.
6. What day was Adam created on?
7. Was the universe created a closed system and, if not, what kind of energy did it run off of? if it was created open, what closed it?
8. Describe terra aqua and what kind of water it consisted of and why.
9. Photosynthesis required light from the sun prior to the Fall. true or false?
10. Explain how a 24-hour day could transpire before the sun was created.
11. Explain the difference between "miracles" and "magic."
12. When discussing Creationism, why should one never let himself stray from Genesis 1 or 2?
13. Why is "heaven" singular in Genesis 1, but plural in Genesis 2?

 

[One God and Father of All]

Ho? God created the Universe ex materia? And AV1611VET is posting hundreds of posts trying to convince us that the creation was ex nihilo, like his post (one out of many)

The Beginning

Stop with the time already. Forget time. God doesn't exist in or outside time. He is eternal. Which doesn't relate to time. Don't bother trying to conceptualise it - it's not humanly possible. And God, so I have been led to believe, is omnipotent. So there was nothing (and don't try to think...

www.christianforums.com

Can you guys please get your story straight?

The first sentence of the Bible is a general statement telling us God created the heaven and earth. What follows tells us how God created the heaven and earth. God formed or shape the earth by moving water so that dry land would appear. The moving of the water would create the sun and stars by allowing the light from them to shine upon the earth.
I think it’s foolish to deny the science of the age of the earth and sun and stars.

 

[Astrid]

“god created” means something to many, many, many people.
the word “create” means to build, shape, or form.
My point is that it does NOT mean to ”make from nothing” as many assume.
When it’s said God created man it means that God FORMED man from something that already existed. So, it was not out of nothing.
And when He created the heaven and earth nor was it out of nothing.

As noted before, people assume all sorts of things.
You assume it seems, that i dont know people
believe " god created" has meaning outside of people's
religious beliefs. It doesnt. Its just a belief.

You assume there is a god, it created stuff, and that
you hae details; and I dont believe any of it

 

[AV1611VET]

You assume there is a god, it created stuff, and that you have details; and I don't believe any of it.

Perhaps you've mislabeled yourself as a "skeptic" then?

Do you want us to assume you are, though?

 

[One God and Father of All]

As noted before, people assume all sorts of things.
You assume it seems, that i dont know people
believe " god created" has meaning outside of people's
religious beliefs. It doesnt. Its just a belief.

You assume there is a god, it created stuff, and that
you hae details; and I dont believe any of it

I don’t blame you for not believing it. I struggle constantly with believing it. And I can understand why people don’t even want to be involved with It.

 

[Astrid]

I don’t blame you for not believing it. I struggle constantly with believing it. And I can understand why people don’t even want to be involved with It.

Maybe your mind is trying to tell you
something, who knows.
Are you a literalist like 6 days, Adam & Eve,
worldwide flood?

Why, if you dont mind, do you suppose I dont
believe the story?

 

[driewerf]

And how would you determine if it made sense or not?

What specific standard(s) would you use?

Here are mine:

1. Bible says x, Science says x = go with x
2. Bible says x, Science says y = go with x
3. Bible says x, Science says ø = go with x
4. Bible says ø, Science says x = go with x
5. Bible says ø, Science says ø = free to speculate on your own

Prime Directive: Under no circumstances whatsoever is the Bible to be contradicted.

Let's see yours now -- sans vague terminology.

I suspect your standard(s) are the Scientific Method.

But here's your chance to tell us.

The floor is yours.

1. Bible says x, Science says x = go with x
Driewerf: ignore the bible, study and evaluate x

2. Bible says x, Science says y = go with x
Driewerf: ignore the bible, study and evaluate y

3. Bible says x, Science says ø = go with x
Driewerf: ignore the bible, start a research project.

4. Bible says ø, Science says x = go with ø
Driewerf: ignore the bible, study and evaluate x

5. Bible says ø, Science says ø = free to speculate on your own
Driewerf: ignore the bible, start a research project.

Prime Directive: don't take things on authority, but evaluate the evidence and argument supporting the thesis. Don't stay ignorant but study.

 

[AV1611VET]

1. Bible says x, Science says x = go with x
Driewerf: ignore the bible, study and evaluate x

2. Bible says x, Science says y = go with x
Driewerf: ignore the bible, study and evaluate y

3. Bible says x, Science says ø = go with x
Driewerf: ignore the bible, start a research project.

4. Bible says ø, Science says x = go with ø
Driewerf: ignore the bible, study and evaluate x

5. Bible says ø, Science says ø = free to speculate on your own
Driewerf: ignore the bible, start a research project.

Prime Directive: don't take things on authority, but evaluate the evidence and argument supporting the thesis. Don't stay ignorant but study.

Bible says for whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved.

Driewerf: atheist.

 

[dlamberth]

Bible says for whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved.

Driewerf: atheist.

I'm not at all clear what that has to do with science.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not at all clear what that has to do with science.

I'm pointing out that Driewerf's attitude toward the Bible is a contributing factor to his atheism.

 

[dlamberth]

I'm pointing out that Driewerf's attitude toward the Bible is a contributing factor to his atheism.

From a religious point of view and as a worshiper of God, I agree fully with his take. It's not just atheist that would agree with him.

 

[driewerf]

I'm pointing out that Driewerf's attitude toward the Bible is a contributing factor to his atheism.

The main factor that made me atheist is not the bible, but the answers (or lack there of) from christians. It is the multiple inconsistencies in your (plural) story, the dodging of embarrassing questions etc.
(corrected a typo after being quoted by Hans Blaster)

 

[Hans Blaster]

The main factor that made me atheist is not the bile, but the answers (or lack there of) from christians. It is the multiple inconsistencies in your (plural) story, the dodging of embarrassing questions etc.

It wasn't the bile for me either (though it does keep me from going back) it was the Bible and its general unbelievability.

 

[BCP1928]

I'm pointing out that Driewerf's attitude toward the Bible is a contributing factor to his atheism.

Are you sure it's not your attitude toward the Bible that is contributing to his atheism?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Are you sure it's not your attitude toward the Bible that is contributing to his atheism?

Don't give AV any ideas about his power to affect others. It'll go to his head.