The Beginning

[AV1611VET]

Everyone knows examples.

What have you seen with your own eyes that contradicts a literal reading of the Bible?

A six-legged grasshopper?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Why? Its just a general q.

Everyone knows examples.

I cannot answer questions that have not been asked.

 

[Astrophile]

I meant no disrespect. So what caused the bang?

Nobody knows. There have been various suggestions, such as vacuum fluctuations, colliding branes, black holes in other universes. Lawrence Krauss, in A universe from nothing, and Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow, in The Grand Design, appear to think that the universe may have come from nothing.

God?. Why God and not something else.

This argument takes you only as far as deism. As Bradskii has already said, it is a very long step from the deist god to Christianity or to any other of the world's religions.

And I don't understand,

You are in good company.

like I agree with the second premise. It most definitely began to exist. But why would there be a cause when a cause has to exist in time? But there is no time

Perhaps there was no cause, or nothing that we would recognise as a cause. Lawrence Krauss, in Chapter 10 of A universe from nothing, appears to suggest that 'nothing' is unstable, and that 'one specific type of universe ... might appear and need not disappear almost immediately afterwards because of the constraints of the Uncertainty Principle and energy conservation.'

 

[Astrid]

I cannot answer questions that have not been asked.

I did ask a hypothetical q., but if you
dont like that kind, then, specifics range
from big (flood) to small (pi=3.0)

 

[AV1611VET]

(pi=3.0)

NTS = not to scale

 

[NxNW]

Stop with the time already. Forget time. God doesn't exist in or outside time. He is eternal.

If God is outside time, then God cannot act inside time, and therefore cannot effect events in this universe.

 

[Astrid]

Honestly, the things people
say god can or cannot do.
Like they even know if
there Is a god.

 

[AV1611VET]

Honestly, the things people say god can or cannot do.

Ya, really.

Like walk on water, walk through doors, save souls, heal the sick, raise the dead, part the Red Sea, part the Jordan River, calm storms, cure lepers, feed five thousand people with just a sack lunch.

Like they even know if there Is a god.

They do.

That's where we got these:

1. The Bible
2. Time divided into BC and AD.
3. Organizations such as the Red Cross and Salvation Army.
4. Hospitals built by Christian organizations.
5. Beautiful Christian artwork, edifices, statuary and literature.
6. IN GOD WE TRUST on our coins and UNDER GOD in our pledge of allegiance.
7. The Ten Commandments and other literature displayed in public.
8. Christmas & Easter
9. Symbols on bumper stickers and flags.
10. Public debates in the name of Christianity.
11. Crosses and billboards erected to testify of Jesus Christ.
12. Two major nations founded on His existence.

 

[Bradskii]

If God is outside time, then God cannot act inside time, and therefore cannot effect events in this universe.

He's omnipotent.

 

[NxNW]

He's omnipotent.

He can't be two contradictory things at once. That's like making a rock so heavy he can't lift it.

 

[NxNW]

Honestly, the things people
say god can or cannot do.
Like they even know if
there Is a god.

Either the rules of logic apply, or they don't. I'm just pointing out that the "outside time" claims are nonsensical.

 

[dlamberth]

If God is outside time, then God cannot act inside time, and therefore cannot effect events in this universe.

There is a perspective, mostly with the Mystics, where God is both inside as well as outside matter. The matter aspect happens in time.

 

[Bradskii]

He can't be two contradictory things at once. That's like making a rock so heavy he can't lift it.

He is eternal. Timeless. He doesn't leave things until tomorrow. There's no time limit for what He does. He doesn't have to wait to see how things turn out. You can't deny any of that.

But He, being omnipotent, can also act within time. He sent His son at a specific time to live a life here. He apparently speaks to individuals at different times. He created the world in sequence. You know, on the first day etc...And there's nothing there you can deny either.

So you agree with both.

 

[AV1611VET]

So you agree with both.

Good post.

He's outside of three dimensional space as well.

Notice ...

Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

It's easy to roll a sleeping bag up inside of three dimensions of space.

But you would have to be outside of three dimensional space to roll three dimensional space up.

 

[Astrid]

Either the rules of logic apply, or they don't. I'm just pointing out that the "outside time" claims are nonsensical.

Like so much that is claimed.

Its kind of disappointing. Kind of.
I wasnt raised in a religious home.

But, I am a curious sort.

It seemed possible there were people here
with something to say. Some religious insight
that made sense, resonated some way. So far
its been the opposite.

 

[Astrid]

He can't be two contradictory things at once. That's like making a rock so heavy he can't lift it.

The heavy rock thing is silly. The entire universe does
weigh anything.

The rules that people make for god are things
like that he cannot do evil, ie is less capable than i am.

And to that i say, why not ? He 's omni or he isnt.

 

[AV1611VET]

Some religious insight that made sense, resonated some way.

And how would you determine if it made sense or not?

What specific standard(s) would you use?

Here are mine:

1. Bible says x, Science says x = go with x
2. Bible says x, Science says y = go with x
3. Bible says x, Science says ø = go with x
4. Bible says ø, Science says x = go with x
5. Bible says ø, Science says ø = free to speculate on your own

Prime Directive: Under no circumstances whatsoever is the Bible to be contradicted.

Let's see yours now -- sans vague terminology.

I suspect your standard(s) are the Scientific Method.

But here's your chance to tell us.

The floor is yours.

 

[NxNW]

He is eternal. Timeless. He doesn't leave things until tomorrow. There's no time limit for what He does. He doesn't have to wait to see how things turn out. You can't deny any of that.

Of course I can, because you've provided no evidence. You simply made all that up.

But He, being omnipotent, can also act within time.

Proof?

He sent His son at a specific time to live a life here. He apparently speaks to individuals at different times. He created the world in sequence. You know, on the first day etc...And there's nothing there you can deny either.

I hereby deny it, because you've provided no evidence.

So you agree with both.

I assert that everything you've posted here is false.

 

[NxNW]

The heavy rock thing is silly. The entire universe does
weigh anything.

Space itself has weight.

The rules that people make for god are things
like that he cannot do evil, ie is less capable than i am.

If God is perfect by definition, doesn't that imply that God cannot make a false statement?

Therefore God is incapable of stating that 2 plus 2 equals five.

QED.

 

[Astrid]

Space itself has weight.

If God is perfect by definition, doesn't that imply that God cannot make a false statement?

Therefore God is incapable of stating that 2 plus 2 equals five.

QED.

Quite Easily Demolished.

No, it does not.


If " god" were omnipotent then it could lie as
readily as i can.
But it cannot, therefore it aint omnipotrnt.