The Beginning

[partinobodycular]

Bible says for whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved.

Ahh... the first step in mind control... get the victim to follow a seemingly innocuous command. Once you can get them to do that, you simply guide them further and further down this path of seemingly harmless actions. Before they know it they can't back out without looking like a fool.

It's like believing in YEC, once you've gone a certain distance down the rabbit hole, admitting that you were wrong becomes virtually impossible.

Hence you get standards such as this:

1. Bible says x, Science says x = go with x
2. Bible says x, Science says y = go with x
3. Bible says x, Science says ø = go with x
4. Bible says ø, Science says x = go with x
5. Bible says ø, Science says ø = free to speculate on your own

Prime Directive: Under no circumstances whatsoever is the Bible to be contradicted.

It's the result of being wrong, but being too proud to admit that you were wrong.

 

[AV1611VET]

From a religious point of view and as a worshiper of God, I agree fully with his take.

Does he agree with yours?

It's not just atheist that would agree with him.

I know.

 

[AV1611VET]

The main factor that made me atheist is not the bible, but the answers (or lack there of) from christians.

Depends on the questions.

It is the multiple inconsistencies in your (plural) story, the dodging of embarrassing questions etc.

I'm going to withhold comment on this, save to ask you what goes through your head when you see scientists with some seven or eight hypotheses as to how we got our moon?

Not to mention how many times they get shown wrong with another discovery that's just around the corner?

Not to mention see them rig votes?

You can treat these questions as rhetorical if you want.

But I have a feeling you're not going to apply your own standards to your own people.

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you sure it's not your attitude toward the Bible that is contributing to his atheism?

You'll have to ask him that.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's the result being wrong, but being too proud to admit that you were wrong.

Would I be correct in assuming you were ignoring the Bible (as you put it) long before I ever came along?

 

[partinobodycular]

Would I be correct in assuming you were ignoring the Bible (as you put it) long before I ever came along?

No. You're not even correct now. And if I said anything about ignoring the bible please be so kind as to point it out to me, and I'll address your misunderstanding.

 

[dlamberth]

It's the result of being wrong, but being too proud to admit that you were wrong.

I don't believe that's the case at all. AV's faith in his beliefs are real. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[dlamberth]

Does he agree with yours?

The Bible is not a science book. So when it comes to science stuff, Yes!

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't believe that's the case at all. AV's faith in his beliefs are real. Nothing wrong with that.

You're a gentleman and a scholar!

 

[SelfSim]

I don't believe that's the case at all. AV's faith in his beliefs are real. Nothing wrong with that.

There is when they produce intentionally, (or unintentionally), abuse of science, scientists and science's definitions of objective reality.

I also have major issues with encouraging ignorance on the intellectually slovenly basis of: Its too hard to wrap one's mind around science's carefully considered and evidenced explanations .. which is the message I get as an onlooker of this discussion.

Further, popularising and propagating a message of willful ignorance, is also a crime against humanity, IMO.
Wiiful ignorance is never an acceptable message in a rational science forum. I (for eg) will never accept it.

 

[partinobodycular]

I don't believe that's the case at all. AV's faith in his beliefs are real.

In which case I don't put much value in faith, because if all that it generates is the arrogant proclamation that I'm right and you're wrong, then it's worthless to me. Because any person can have that kind of faith. On the other hand, if it generates compassion, and mercy, and forgiveness, and understanding... then it has value.... then, beyond anything else, it's something worth possessing.

So when the bible proclaims that by grace are ye saved, through faith, which kind of faith is it talking about... the kind that refuses to admit that it might be wrong, or the kind for whom doing right, matters far more than being right.

I'm not really concerned about whether the bible is right or wrong, because I'm not depending upon a book to tell me how old the earth is, or whether to love my neighbor. And that's what I consider to be faith... to do what is right and good, without the need of a book to tell me what's right and good. For me, that's the true evidence of faith... not the refusal to admit that I might be wrong.

Unlike AV, I can't turn to a scripture, or a verse to try to justify this or that... I have to walk by faith. Hence I'm open to criticism from both sides... but then again, I'm far too old and indifferent for criticism to bother me very much. However I've recently been informed that I can refer to my indifference as ataraxia, which makes it sound so much more stoic. Perhaps I should add it to my profile. The Ataraxic

 

[SelfSim]

.. I'm not really concerned about whether the bible is right or wrong, because I'm not depending upon a book to tell me how old the earth is, or whether to love my neighbor. And that's what I consider to be faith... to do what is right and good, without the need of a book to tell me what's right and good. For me, that's the true evidence of faith... not the refusal to admit that I might be wrong.

Faith in your inner self then?
Sounds Humanistic(?)

Unlike AV, I can't turn to a scripture, or a verse to try to justify this or that... I have to walk by faith. Hence I'm open to criticism from both sides... but then again, I'm far too old and indifferent for criticism to bother me very much. However I've recently been informed that I can refer to my indifference as ataraxia, which makes it sound so much more stoic. Perhaps I should add it to my profile. The Ataraxic

I'm still awaiting that ataraxia .. I prefer knowledge .. and clarity.
I also know that its human minds doin' all the heavy lifting .. and that ain't based on faith!

 

[AV1611VET]

There is when they produce intentionally, (or unintentionally), abuse of science, scientists and science's definitions of objective reality.

What goes through your head when I say science is a gift from God?

1. I'm blowing smoke.
2. I'm elevating science to a higher level.
3. Other

Please answer this.

 

[Hans Blaster]

What goes through your head when I say science is a gift from God?

1. I'm blowing smoke.

It's hard to tell. Most of your posts on this sub-forum have less substance than smoke.

1. I'm elevating science to a higher level.

Dragging it down would be more like it.

1. Other

#3. It is appropriation and colonization. You are trying to claim for your thing (god) what is not your right to claim (our work) wile degrading and diminishing it otherwise. That is why we despise this tact of yours so much.

Please answer this.

You keep needing answers that you have heard dozens of times to the same questions over and over. Are you just that boring or do you have memory problems?

 

[One God and Father of All]

Maybe your mind is trying to tell you
something, who knows.
Are you a literalist like 6 days, Adam & Eve,
worldwide flood?

Why, if you dont mind, do you suppose I dont
believe the story?

I don’t believe the flood was worldwide. I do believe that Adam and Eve were the first humans. And I do believe in a literal 6 days. I also believe that the earth, sun, moon and stars existed long before the creation of the earth as we now know it.
As far supposing why you don’t believe any of it, I could suppose there just doesn't seem to be any evidence for a God. To say that things exist is proof of God is weak.
Science also proves that what Christianity has taught is false.
Then there is the idea that if God is love why is there so much evil iin the world.
Could you tell why you don’t believe any of it?

 

[partinobodycular]

What goes through your head when I say science is a gift from God?

I'll answer... you're blowing smoke. Because science is a tool people use to question their existing worldview, but you've made it abundantly clear that you'll never, ever do that. All that you'll ever do is use science to defend your worldview, but never to question it... and that's science's real purpose, and by rejecting its purpose, you've rejected it entirely.

Hence, you're blowing smoke.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'll answer... you're blowing smoke. Because science is a tool people use to question their existing worldview, but you've made it abundantly clear that you'll never, ever do that. All that you'll ever do is use science to defend your worldview, but never to question it... and that's science's real purpose, and by rejecting its purpose, you've rejected it entirely.

Hence, you're blowing smoke.

Thank you for answering.

 

[SelfSim]

What goes through your head when I say science is a gift from God?

I'm insulted. Science was produced by human minds. Own it if you're human.

1. I'm blowing smoke.
2. I'm elevating science to a higher level.
3. Other

Please answer this.

You are attempting to force your hierararchical believed-in model onto me and onto science.
There is no 'higher level', other than in your own mind.
They're your beliefs. Science doesn't need them .. and neither do I.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm insulted. Science was produced by human minds. Own it if you're human.

You are attempting to force your hierararchical believed-in model onto me and onto science.
There is no 'higher level', other than in your own mind.
They're your beliefs. Science doesn't need them .. and neither do I.

Thank you.

 

[SelfSim]

Thank you.

Noted that your unsupportable declaration of: 'science is a gift from God' is now accompanied by a lack of explanation.
That makes it a lie of omission.