Before I answer, could you clarify what scripture you think says that the Jews do not become Christians until the middle of the 70th week?
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Before I answer, could you clarify what scripture you think says that the Jews do not become Christians until the middle of the 70th week?I was talking about your rationale that the Jews become Christians as a result of a pre-trib (pre-70th week) rapture.
But the bible indicates the Jews (Israel) don't become Christians until the middle of the 70th week.
Revelation 12:10.Before I answer, could you clarify what scripture you think says that the Jews do not become Christians until the middle of the 70th week?
This is an excellent point. To understand how this will happen, we need to see what happens with each of the beasts. The beast out of the sea is the eighth king. We already know that the eighth king is Nimrod and that he is the god of most of the false religions of the world. So there will be no problem getting much of the world to worship the beast.............. as he is already god of their religions. As to the Muslims, how do they come along and worship the beast. The Muslims are currently looking for the Mahdi............ an end times Muslim who will come to power in the last days. That will be your seventh king. What does the 7th king do???????Thanks for your thoughts on this, but you fail to explain how Muslims would turn to worshipping the beast. There are a lot of Muslims so that group certainly can't be ignored.
Let's look at Rev 12:13-17.Revelation 12:10.
Taking this thought a bit further, do you think it's possible that "the beast" refers not to a single man, but to an idea? That same idea that Nimrod put into the heads of people, being that they don't need God?
Josephus said of Nimrod "He also gradually changed the government into tyranny, seeing no other way of turning men from the fear of God, but to bring them into a constant dependence on his power…" This description of Nimrod rings true today in the form of communism currently at work in large parts of the world, growing in popularity, and trying to claim a foothold in the United States even. This dependence on government, rather than God, and even more so the forceful dependence on government and shunning of God by communist dictators all over the world, reminds me a lot of Nimrod, the man he was and the vision he had for humanity.
Could it be that this "beast" we're looking for is right before our eyes, and is an ideology, not a man?
Well, I don't take issue with that the dragon goes after the twelve tribes, commonly called the Jews, all around the globe.So the dragon goes after the woman, but she..........the nation of Israel.....flees to a place of protection, for a time, times and half a time.
When the dragon cannot get to the woman, he goes after the remnant of her seed. The remnant of the woman's seed are the 12 tribes across the earth............and as we read, the keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. So the seed of the woman..........the twelve tribes across the earth, have the testimony of Jesus Christ BEFORE the time, times and half a time.
I don't see any solid reason to believe that Isaiah 14 refers to the end times beast.No, we are looking for a man. He is the king of Babylon and is known as the Assyrian. Nimrod was both the king of Babylon and the king of Assyria.
Isaiah 14:3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
Freedm, it is a combination of Ezekiel 28:1-10, which God has the person killed by strangers to him, for claiming to be God.I don't see any solid reason to believe that Isaiah 14 refers to the end times beast.
There are a few, without a doubt clues that Isaiah 14 is referring to the end times beast.......but you must understand the clues.I don't see any solid reason to believe that Isaiah 14 refers to the end times beast.
The verses cannot be referring the Jews in Judea that don't flee. How do we know that? We know the ones that do not flee, 2/3 of the nation of Israel, are killed, then and there. The ones that flee, 1/3 escape. That is when the dragon goes after the seed of the woman...........the twelve tribes across the earth.Well, I don't take issue with that the dragon goes after the twelve tribes, commonly called the Jew, all around the globe.
But I take them in Revelation 12:17 as the Jews in Judea in specific, who don't flee into the mountains right away, will be persecuted by Satan from the time/times/half times he will have left. Those are the one Jesus rescues in specific at his return, as they escape through the valley created when Jesus stands on the Mount of Olives in Zechariah 14.
That issue aside, a pretrib (pre-70th week) rapture would not be what makes them turn to Jesus, but the betrayal of their thought-to-be King of Israel/messiah, sometime in the middle of the week.
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The ones who don't flee in time, yes, some will be killed. But there are also them who live through it, and are the ones who Jesus rescues in Zechariah 14 by escaping through the valley created when Jesus stands on the mount of Olives.The verses cannot be referring the Jews in Judea that don't flee. How do we know that? We know the ones that do not flee, 2/3 of the nation of Israel, are killed, then and there. The ones that flee, 1/3 escape. That is when the dragon goes after the seed of the woman...........the twelve tribes across the earth.
Different Salvation. The second death is spiritual or do you think there are 2 physical deaths and no spiritual death?The only way to salvation is to have your head chopped off? Gee, I though Jesus was the only way.
Did any one follow Christ before 30AD? Is following Jesus' Words the same as following Christ's Gospel? The book of Hebrews is about the Hebrews being a completed church. It is not really about the religion we call Christianity today. The Jews were not converting from Judaism to Christianity. God stopped dealing with humanity through the Law of Moses and dealt with humanity through the Atonement. Although the Atonement was always in effect by faith and trust in God. The Law was and is still physical. You can still keep the physical Law, since it was never the means of Salvation to begin with. It was a physical economy of a single nation. It was not a religion. Some today worship money, but the economy is not a religion, unless it solely represents humanism. The mark of the beast will be the humanistic religious economy. Satan incorporates worship into the economy. The ATONEMENT is not a religion. It is God's grace and mercy to Adam's fallen descendants. Notice Adam, not Jacob/Israel. Both Jews and Gentiles are equally Adam's descendants.Before I answer, could you clarify what scripture you think says that the Jews do not become Christians until the middle of the 70th week?
There are a few, without a doubt clues that Isaiah 14 is referring to the end times beast.......but you must understand the clues.
Instead of dealing with that at this time, we should probably address this verse.
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
From the Jewish Bible (Tanach at Chabad.org) english translation...I think the word "lucifer" (lower case L) can be used to describe anyone who is in a position of power or glory. Like a human king. The KJV translation is indeed misleading.
From the Jewish Bible (Tanach at Chabad.org) english translation...
12How have you fallen from heaven, the morning star? You have been cut down to earth, You who cast lots on nations.
I think the word (transliterated) from Hebrew was Heylel in their Tanach, and later translated by Jerome in the latin bible as Lucifer.
Lucifer, the word, is found only in that one place in the KJV.
LUCIFER IN THE BIBLE
We don't need to think or guess brother as we have all the proof that we need that the verses are referring to Nimrod........... who is the end times antichrist and the eighth king.I think the word "lucifer" (lower case L) can be used to describe anyone who is in a position of power or glory. Like a human king. The KJV translation is indeed misleading.
That verse is not talking about the beast, because the beast is destroyed at Jesus's Second Coming when he is on the temple mount. Because Jesus cleans the temple and temple mount from those things that have made it desolate.Isaiah 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
This is an interesting point, but how do you think a person is "destroyed"? Does that mean killed? What then? Is that person resurrected on the last day along with the rest of us? Or if you believe a person goes straight to heaven or hell in spirit form, does this person go straight to hell?... the beast is destroyed at Jesus's Second Coming
That verse is not talking about the beast, because the beast is destroyed at Jesus's Second Coming when he is on the temple mount. Because Jesus cleans the temple and temple mount from those things that have made it desolate.
Maybe you are unfamiliar with this verse Doug. Gog/Magog happens after the 1000 years, so it can't be Gog that those verses are referring to.The Assyrian in that verse is likely Gog, the leader of the Gog/Magog alliance of nations, which God destroys his army on the mountains in Israel.
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