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Featured The Beast that was and is not identified

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by wisdompersonified, Oct 27, 2020.

  1. wisdompersonified

    wisdompersonified New Member

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    The Bible talks about the beast that was and is not, yet is in Revelation 17. John also gave us clues as to who this might be.

    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    This tells us that this beast was alive, he's not alive now(at the time John wrote this) but he will live again most likely in the body of a present day leader.

    10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

    11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

    This is pretty clear and in this case John predicted the short reign of Nerva.

    The one that is would have been Domitian. Nerva was Emperor after Domitian for 15 months. Who were the 5 that had fallen?

    Galba, Otho, Vitellius, Vespasian and Titus.

    Now the first 3 before Vespasian and Nerva ruled for short periods of time. Vespasian, Titus and Domitian had the biggest impact on the Jews.

    Titus destroyed the 2nd Temple in 70 A.D under Vespasian as Emperor.

    He wanted to capture the Temple for Rome and put Roman gods in it but it was on fire so he decided to destroy it in such a way that Jerusalem would be forgotten. Just like Jesus predicted.

    Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, “See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down.”

    The wailing wall isn't the site of the 2nd Temple. Neither is the Temple Mount. The Temple Mount is an old Roman fort.

    The Bible said, he will be an eighth king but part of the 7. It also says this 8th king will be the soul of of one of the 7 that ascends out of the bottomless pit. I believe it will ascend and enter the body of the beast that get's the deadly wound that's healed.

    Now, out of these 7, I think it will be Vespasian, Titus or Domitian. Like I said, Titus destroyed the 2nd Temple, Vespasian would throw Jews in the water to see if they float and Domitian was a tyrant. It could be any 1 of the 7 though.
     
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  2. honey badger

    honey badger i am

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    “As for the sons of men, God tests them so that they may see for themselves that they are but beasts.”
     
  3. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    The accuser was, after Christ he is not, yet he gets a last chance to get at us. Usually our death struggle.

    What greater beast we have to face than the dragon? Revelation is about the spiritual more than anything else.

    When The lid of the pit comes of on our final day then satan will try and snatch us out of His hand but also then Jesus will prove to have the final word.
     
  4. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The beast is not Nerva. Nerva died of natural causes. Revelation 17:8 is a complicated issue to understand.

    The kings of Revelation 17:10-11. Of the Julio-Claudian family.

    king 1 Julius Caesar
    king 2 Augustus Caesar
    king 3 Tiberius
    king 4 Caligula
    king 5 Claudius
    king 6 Nero

    king 7 the end times little horn person (leader of the EU)
    king 8 (formally king 7) the beast (dictator of the EU)

    In Revelation 13, the beast person is the mortally wounded and come back to life head.

    upload_2020-10-27_7-7-3.jpeg


    Revelation 17:8 is divided into two parts. 17:8a, 17:8b

    8a The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

    8b and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    8b is about the end times little horn person who will be killed and a few days to a week later and comes back to life - all witnessed by the people of the world.

    8a is the original serpent beast in the garden, currently a disembodied spirit in the bottomless pit, which will possess the end times person when he comes back to life.
     
  5. Freedm

    Freedm Member

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    If the sea, out of which the first beast rises, represents the nations, what does the earth, from which the second beast rises, represent?
     
  6. honey badger

    honey badger i am

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    an alter ...
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Israel.
     
  8. Freedm

    Freedm Member

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    And on what are you basing that?
     
  9. Freedm

    Freedm Member

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    And Dougg, why do you believe "the earth" is representative of Israel?
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    1. hearsay, tradition - it is a popular view.

    2. since the sea is the nations collectively, the gentiles, the earth is not the nations, but the Jews, Israel.

    The great opposer (to Jesus) will come out of the gentile nations.
    The false prophet will come of Israel.

    I think I am going invent my own blanket term for the person who will be the little horn>prince who shall come>the Antichrist>the revealed man of sin>the beast as being "the great opposer" (to Jesus).

    Because "the Antichrist" term is inappropriate to refer to the person in blanket fashion.

    little horn horn, beast - 7th Julio Claudian King of the Roman empire; then later the 8th Julio Claudian King of the Roman empire.

    Antichrist - King of Israel coming in his own name.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  11. honey badger

    honey badger i am

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    four corners etc ...
     
  12. Freedm

    Freedm Member

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    I can see you are a man of few words. Can you be a bit more verbose?
     
  13. Freedm

    Freedm Member

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    I want you all to consider the alien connection. Obviously there have been millions of UFO sightings around the world and throughout the ages, and since it's extremely unlikely that any human government is flying these craft around, it's safe to assume they're being piloted by "aliens", aka fallen angels.

    Now further assuming that you agree with my statement above, can you really foresee an end of the earth scenario where aliens play no part in it at all?

    And when you consider that the mark of the beast requires the entire world to worship the beast, thereby leaving behind Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, etc. to all agree that this beast is worthy of worship, under what circumstances can any of you actually foresee this happening?

    In my opinion, the only scenario I can imagine that would cause the entire world to drop existing religions and worship a "beast" is one where aliens come down and tell us that they created us and that "man made religions" are all false. No other scenario, in my mind, could possibly bring us to that point.

    And I also can't imagine an end of earth scenario where aliens and UFOs turn out to be no factor at all. They must play a part in all this.
     
  14. wisdompersonified

    wisdompersonified New Member

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    I think the sea represents a political beast. He makes war and is elected by a sea of people. The beast from the earth is a religious leader and is selected by his congregation. The second beast does miracles and he has two horns like a lamb but spake as a dragon. I think this could be a Christian religious leader, the false prophet.
     
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    the beast will be a man.

    Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

    Revelation 14;11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

    It is
    1. his name
    2. the number of his name
    3. the mark of his name
     
  16. Nancy2

    Nancy2 New Member

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    Hi ya all,
    Hope you are all keeping well!
    I believe from having listened to many different people, that the beast that was and is not, is the Ottoman empire or islamic caliphate. When the scriptures state that it must rule for a little while, it means for quite a time. Think about it, we will say to a friend stay a little while. We mean stay for some hours not just 5 minutes don't we?
    The same with this bible passage. The caliphate was in power for about 500 years then it died in 1923. Erdogan wants to revive the empire as we speak. Think of the statue in daniel. It was standing in the area that Nebechadnezzar ruled and the subsequent empires after that, not the roman empire which hardly went into those areas.
    Look to Turkey for more news concerning end times.
     
  17. Ki Won

    Ki Won New Member

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    The seven kings, five have fallen, one is, one is yet to come are the empires that have controlled Jerusalem over time..

    Five have been:

    Egyptian
    Assyrian
    Babylonian
    Medo-Persian
    Greek

    One is:

    Roman (at the time John was writing)

    One is yet to come:

    Islamic

    Now, I have always believed that that meant the Anti-Christ would be a Muslim, (he is of the seven), but now I know differently, the seven kings are each of the heads of the beast, that's why he's "of the seven" , they're his heads.

    Read my post titled "the beasts of revelation ch 13" to understand better.

    The beasts of revelation 13

    Blessings
     
  18. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The beast of the seven. Nor the seven are of the beast.

    You have a misunderstanding, btw, of the term and function of the great opposer to Jesus when he is the Antichrist. Being the Antichrist is only while the person is the King of Israel, coming in his own name. A muslim cannot be the King of Israel. Wrong religion. The person has to be a Jew, and his religion Judaism.

    the great opposer - blanket term
     
  19. Ki Won

    Ki Won New Member

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    Did you read my post Doug? Who said anything about a "great opposer" ? What a ridiculous term to use if I might be so bold..

    "As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction”

    It BELONGS to the seven, i.e. they are the same..

    It is your understanding of the Anti-Christ that is flawed Doug, if Anti-Christ is the King of Israel, who attacks Jerusalem ala Zechariah ch 12? Also, isn't the Anti Christ one who is the opposite of Christ? The evil version of the good?

    Who is " the Assyrian" if it is not referring to AntiChrist? Can an Assyrian be the King of Israel? Sorry Doug but if you must use your ridiculous moniker for the AC, it must be a blanket term that covers ALL of the names of the AC, you can't leave out the Assyrian because he's not Jewish..
     
  20. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Show us a scripture that proves he will be the king of Israel.
     
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