The Beast that was and is not identified

[Freedm]

Well the same way some think we live in a 14 billion year old universe. Satan's deception is science, so called. 1 Timothy 6:20. The knowledge (science) Satan feeds humanity is false. I do believe Satan has advanced technology. Seems foolish of Satan not to stay ahead of the humans. Humans who more than likely get all technology related items from Satan at a cost. Have you ever read the legend of the pied piper?

Yes, I agree that Satan has advanced technology, which is why I believe UFOs are piloted by fallen angels. I just use the word "aliens" for the sake of simplicity, and also technically I would consider fallen angels to be "alien" to our world, so they are aliens, just not from a different planet.

I have not read the legend of the pied piper.

 

[Freedm]

There are no aliens. That's bogus bull made up to explain the secret pretribulation rapture that will occur. Satan is aware what will happen and he has his explanation. In the early 50's there were so many calls to Washington about cigar shaped objects that they had to shut off the switchboards. Blimps, no doubt. As for today, there is certainly advanced aircraft that the military is unaware of. When the time comes, at the rapture, there will be all kinds of UFO's and holograms that will convince most that the aliens have come. It's all a lie.

You wouldn't consider fallen angels to be "alien" to our world?

 

[Choose Wisely]

You wouldn't consider fallen angels to be "alien" to our world?

The fallen angels will not be responsible for the rapture. So they have nothing to do with alien abductions, which is a false rhetoric.

 

[Douggg]

You are right. "The -MAN- beast from the earth is a religious leader and is selected by his congregation" - Judaism. Actually a FALSE lamb, more precisely a FALSE messiah, the ESOTERIC, and KABBALISTIC and SPIRITIST ruthless messiah of the Jews, spiritually a former Cherub, the SON of perdition, the MAN of sin (2Thes.2: v.1a12). Even him whose coming is after the working of Satan. Revelation 13:v.11-18 describes the profile of this MAN who has deep knowledge of a Torah - or Old Testament -, with all power and signs and lying wonders and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Revelation 13:v.11-18 describes the profile of this ruthless man.

Get ready

"the" messiah in Judaism is the King of Israel, descended from king David, to be king during the messianic age of peace and safety.

The second beast in Revelation 13 is not a king, but the false prophet, who is underling to the first beast in Revelation 13.

 

[Oseas]

Tim, the beast with the two horns like a lamb in Revelation 13 who speaks as a dragon - does not mean that beast is Satan. It just means that the person is a religious figure, but he is a mouthpiece for Satan

Douggg
You-we-know that the old Serpent, the Devil, and Satan, is only one, not three.
He is a former Cherub, a former powerful ruler of the Garden of God. The Beast of the two horns like a lamb, but he speaks as a Dragon because he is a false lamb, a false messiah(John 5:v.43), AN IMPOSTOR-Satan is the Dragon.

God is in control of History, nothing random happens.

As was prophesied - 2 Thessalonians 2:v.8-12- 8 - the Wicked will be revealed, 9 even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan(the red Dragon) with all power and signs and lying wonders.
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (they believed not in JESUS, the true Messiah-John 5:v.43)
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie (they believe in the Wicked, the abominable and ruthless false messiah-the Dragon-Satan-Revelation 13:v.11-18):
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Oseas]

"the" messiah in Judaism is the King of Israel, descended from king David, to be king during the messianic age of peace and safety.

Douggg
Yes, what you wrote above is about JESUS EXCLUSIVELY, the true Messiah.

The second beast in Revelation 13 is not a king, but the false prophet, who is underling to the first beast in Revelation 13.

Douggg
I did not say in my post above that the "The second beast in Revelation 13 is a king", but a FALSE lamb, more precisely a FALSE messiah, the ESOTERIC, and KABBALISTIC and SPIRITIST ruthless messiah of the Jews, spiritually a former Cherub, the SON of perdition, the MAN of sin (2Thes.2: v.1a12).

I agreed with you where you say that "The -MAN- beast from the earth is a religious leader and is selected by his congregation" - Judaism, evidently. Actually a FALSE lamb, more precisely a FALSE messiah, the ESOTERIC, and KABBALISTIC and SPIRITIST ruthless messiah of the Jews, spiritually a former Cherub, the SON of perdition, the MAN of sin (2Thes.2: v.1a12). Even him whose coming is after the working of Satan. Revelation 13:v.11-18 describes the profile of this MAN who has deep knowledge of a Torah "as a religious leader" - or Old Testament -, with all power and signs and lying wonders and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Revelation 13:v.11-18 describes the profile of this ruthless man messiah.
Get ready

 

[Oseas]

Israel.

Right. True.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg
Yes, what you wrote above is about JESUS EXCLUSIVELY, the true Messiah.

Oseas, we are not disagreeing that Jesus is exclusively the rightful King of Israel, messiah.

But in terms of bible prophecy, how things are going to take place leading up to Jesus's return. The Jews are going to pick someone else. It will be a monumental error of all times.

The Jews (Israel) are the ones who reject Jesus as the rightful King of Israel messiah.

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

We are just trying to figure out bible prophecy. Not whether Jesus is the messiah, and that there is only one way to be saved. Those two things are core to our beliefs.

 

[Oseas]

10 horns equal 10 kings. The little horn equals 1 king. Two horns equals two people.

10 horns equal 10 kings. True.

Two horns equals two people. In fact the two horns refer to one biblical people, divided in two kingdoms.

The little horn equals 1 king. True. Daniel 7:v.7-8

 

[Douggg]

I did not say in my post above that the "The second beast in Revelation 13 is a king", but a FALSE lamb, more precisely a FALSE messiah, the ESOTERIC, and KABBALISTIC and SPIRITIST ruthless messiah of the Jews, spiritually a former Cherub, the SON of perdition, the MAN of sin (2Thes.2: v.1a12).

Oseas, I realized that you did not say the second beast in Revelation 13 is a king.

In Judaism though, "the" messiah and being the King of Israel go hand-n-hand. King of Israel/messiah. The Jews rejected Jesus the King of Israel/messiah, and are going to make a huge mistake in receiving another person as their King of Israel/messiah.

Jesus, in the new testament is the rightful King of Israel/messiah coming in the name of the Lord.

The Anti-messiah, i.e. the Antichrist, will be the King of Israel/messiah in the Jews eyes, but comes in his own name.

Therefore, the second beast, the false prophet, is not said to be a king in Revelation. And thus is not the Anti-messiah.

it will be the first beast in Revelation, who at one stage in his time will be the Anti-messiah.

In Revelation 6, the framework of events provided by the seven seals, the rider on the white horse is given a crown. That crown indicates that he will become a king.

That is when the seven year 70th week starts, with the person being anointed by the false prophet as the King of Israel, but coming in his own name, meaning not approved by God.

_____________ ___________________________________________

 

[Freedm]

The fallen angels will not be responsible for the rapture. So they have nothing to do with alien abductions, which is a false rhetoric.

"false rhetoric". Not sure you should be determining what's false and what's true in the middle of a discussion that hasn't been resolved. Do you work in the main stream media by chance? Or big tech? That's just the kind of thing they do.

In any case, I never said fallen angels will be responsible for the rapture. I said I believe that fallen angels will play a big part in the end times, and it might be worth considering their role in the kingdom of the beast. Perhaps "the beast" will be one of them. To imagine that the UFO phenomenon will turn out to be nothing at all, makes no sense to me.

Furthermore, an entire world dropping existing religions in favour of worshipping the beast makes sense only in the context of a very convincing story, and what could be more convincing than "aliens" coming down to earth to tell us they created us? If anybody has a different theory on how the beast could convince the entire world to drop christianity, islam, hinduism, buddhism, judaism, atheism, etc, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Choose Wisely]

In any case, I never said fallen angels will be responsible for the rapture. I said I believe that fallen angels will play a big part in the end times, and it might be worth considering their role in the kingdom of the beast. Perhaps "the beast" will be one of them.

The beast that was and is not, who is the eighth and is of the 7 is Nimrod.

To imagine that the UFO phenomenon will turn out to be nothing at all, makes no sense to me.

Me neither. The UFO bull of abductions will be used to unite the world and explain away the pretribulation rapture of the Church.

Furthermore, an entire world dropping existing religions in favour of worshipping the beast makes sense only in the context of a very convincing story, and what could be more convincing than "aliens" coming down to earth to tell us they created us?

They will not drop existing religions, other than Christianity.

If anybody has a different theory on how the beast could convince the entire world to drop christianity, islam, hinduism, buddhism, judaism, atheism, etc, I'd love to hear it.

Do you not understand that when the tower of Babel was constructed and God confused the languages, all the people gathered with those that spoke their language and went to different places on the earth. That is why there is pyramids all over the earth. As far as Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism, Zoroasterianism etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, they are basically the same. A false trinity of the sun, moon and star. Just different names for the same gods. In other words, Nimrod is Baal, Marduk, Osiris, Odin, Zoroaster, Zeus, Indra, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. So when Nimrod shows up, the beast that was and is not, and is the eighth and is of the seven, all the world will accept him, as he is already their god.
There are a few exceptions to this, one being Islam where Allah is the moon god, a male god. In most religions the male God is the sun god. Since Islam was formed later and Mohamed claimed the moon God Allah is the only God, there is a different circumstance. Their claim to fame is that Jesus did not die and rise again and God has no son. Whereby, God sent His Son to die for the sin of Man, in Islam, you send YOUR son to die for God.
As for Christianity, that will be a no, no, which is why the beast will hate the harlot (the Vatican) and destroy her in one hour. The Jews will see that the Church has been raptured, pretrib, and will become Christians, during the 70th week of Daniel, that will be hunted down during the great tribulation.

 

[Douggg]

"false rhetoric". Not sure you should be determining what's false and what's true in the middle of a discussion that hasn't been resolved. Do you work in the main stream media by chance? Or big tech? That's just the kind of thing they do.

In any case, I never said fallen angels will be responsible for the rapture. I said I believe that fallen angels will play a big part in the end times, and it might be worth considering their role in the kingdom of the beast. Perhaps "the beast" will be one of them. To imagine that the UFO phenomenon will turn out to be nothing at all, makes no sense to me.

Furthermore, an entire world dropping existing religions in favour of worshipping the beast makes sense only in the context of a very convincing story, and what could be more convincing than "aliens" coming down to earth to tell us they created us? If anybody has a different theory on how the beast could convince the entire world to drop christianity, islam, hinduism, buddhism, judaism, atheism, etc, I'd love to hear it.

We don't know for sure, but there will have to be some explanation presented for the rapture having taken place. Whether that is going to involve fallen angels appearing as aliens or not, we are not told.

But what is in Revelation, it indicates after his initial claim of having achieved God-hood, that the great opposer to Jesus will be killed and come back to life as the world looks on - which will be a major factor.

 

[Douggg]

The Jews will see that the Church has been raptured, pretrib, and will become Christians, during the 70th week of Daniel, that will be hunted down during the great tribulation.

If a person were going to use that rationale of the Jews becoming
Christians, then would it not make more sense that the rapture take place near the time that the Antichrist, King of Israel/messiah coming in his own name - goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood ?

Nearer to the middle of the 70th week, than at or before the beginning.

For discussion's sake, because the rapture could take place in next second.

 

[Choose Wisely]

If a person were going to use that rationale of the Jews becoming
Christians, then would it not make more sense that the rapture take place near the time that the Antichrist, King of Israel/messiah coming in his own name - goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood ?

God turns His attention to the chosen people when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. The 70th week of Daniel............is about the people of Daniel.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Nearer to the middle of the 70th week, than at or before the beginning.

For discussion's sake, because the rapture could take place in next second.

The rapture of the Church will happen before the seals are opened. The seals occur during the 70th week of Daniel. When the dragon cannot get to the woman.......... he goes after the remnant of her seed. The seed of the woman is the 12 tribes of Israel.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Douggg]

God turns His attention to the chosen people when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. The 70th week of Daniel............is about the people of Daniel.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The rapture of the Church will happen before the seals are opened. The seals occur during the 70th week of Daniel. When the dragon cannot get to the woman.......... he goes after the remnant of her seed. The seed of the woman is the 12 tribes of Israel.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I was talking about your rationale that the Jews become Christians as a result of a pre-trib (pre-70th week) rapture.

But the bible indicates the Jews (Israel) don't become Christians until the middle of the 70th week.

 

[Timtofly]

The Jews will see that the Church has been raptured, pretrib, and will become Christians, during the 70th week of Daniel, that will be hunted down during the great tribulation.

No, the Jews will not become Christians. Many people will die, chosen by God to be Resurrected in Revelation 20:4. The angels are here to transport the soul when the physical body dies. They are not the church, and cannot be the church, and being a Jew is important, but some from every nation on earth will be chosen. You have both sheep and wheat in the final harvest.

People will not be "hunted down". People will be begging to get their heads chopped off. That is the only means of being physically and spiritually saved. Dying of starvation, will not save a person from Death.

 

[Freedm]

The beast that was and is not, who is the eighth and is of the 7 is Nimrod.

Me neither. The UFO bull of abductions will be used to unite the world and explain away the pretribulation rapture of the Church.

They will not drop existing religions, other than Christianity.

Do you not understand that when the tower of Babel was constructed and God confused the languages, all the people gathered with those that spoke their language and went to different places on the earth. That is why there is pyramids all over the earth. As far as Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism, Zoroasterianism etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, they are basically the same. A false trinity of the sun, moon and star. Just different names for the same gods. In other words, Nimrod is Baal, Marduk, Osiris, Odin, Zoroaster, Zeus, Indra, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. So when Nimrod shows up, the beast that was and is not, and is the eighth and is of the seven, all the world will accept him, as he is already their god.
There are a few exceptions to this, one being Islam where Allah is the moon god, a male god. In most religions the male God is the sun god. Since Islam was formed later and Mohamed claimed the moon God Allah is the only God, there is a different circumstance. Their claim to fame is that Jesus did not die and rise again and God has no son. Whereby, God sent His Son to die for the sin of Man, in Islam, you send YOUR son to die for God.
As for Christianity, that will be a no, no, which is why the beast will hate the harlot (the Vatican) and destroy her in one hour. The Jews will see that the Church has been raptured, pretrib, and will become Christians, during the 70th week of Daniel, that will be hunted down during the great tribulation.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, but you fail to explain how Muslims would turn to worshipping the beast. There are a lot of Muslims so that group certainly can't be ignored.

 

[Freedm]

People will be begging to get their heads chopped off. That is the only means of being physically and spiritually saved. Dying of starvation, will not save a person from Death.

The only way to salvation is to have your head chopped off? Gee, I though Jesus was the only way.

 

[Freedm]

The beast that was and is not, who is the eighth and is of the 7 is Nimrod.

Taking this thought a bit further, do you think it's possible that "the beast" refers not to a single man, but to an idea? That same idea that Nimrod put into the heads of people, being that they don't need God?

Josephus said of Nimrod "He also gradually changed the government into tyranny, seeing no other way of turning men from the fear of God, but to bring them into a constant dependence on his power…" This description of Nimrod rings true today in the form of communism currently at work in large parts of the world, growing in popularity, and trying to claim a foothold in the United States even. This dependence on government, rather than God, and even more so the forceful dependence on government and shunning of God by communist dictators all over the world, reminds me a lot of Nimrod, the man he was and the vision he had for humanity.

Could it be that this "beast" we're looking for is right before our eyes, and is an ideology, not a man?