The Assumption of Mary

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

I'm in agreement with this. Mary was not assumed into Heaven, nor was she sinless nor is she my mother. There is no Scripture to back up any of these teachings.

I'm also in agreement with this.

 

[sheina]

So where are her relics, Sheina?

In her grave...along with her other remains.

 

[Sarcalogos Deus]

I'm sure her relics have turned to dust since she died over 2000 years ago.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

Except, you know, we have relics from the Twelve Apostles that haven't turned to dust. Not to mention the bones of Saint Peter.

 

[laconicstudent]

I'm sure her relics have turned to dust since she died over 2000 years ago.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

You have proof of this? We have remains much older than 2,000 years.

Anyone else find the idea that the Ark of the New Covenant, the Mother of God, the Fountain of Life, would just crumble and rot into dust?

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Or so it's said the Catholic Church has them, Sarcalogos Deus.

 

[laconicstudent]

In her grave...along with her other remains.

Where, Sheina, where?

 

[laconicstudent]

Or so it's said the Catholic Church has them.

Link to the Roman Catholic source?

 

[sheina]

Except, you know, we have relics from the Twelve Apostles that haven't turned to dust. Not to mention the bones of Saint Peter.

Well, well, aren't you special!!! How do you balance all this out with Scriptures?:

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Sarcalogos Deus said, "Except, you know, we have relics from the Twelve Apostles that haven't turned to dust. Not to mention the bones of Saint Peter." And I then replied, "Or so it's said the Catholic Church has them." In other words, the Catholic Church could possibly be lying about having such things or whatever they have could be the bones of someone completely different. To put it straight, I don't believe what the Catholic Church claims to be true - Assumption of Mary, Papacy, and the list goes on and on.

 

[laconicstudent]

Well, well, aren't you special!!! How do you balance all this out with Scriptures?:

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Well, those are completely non-applicable to relics of God's saints.

 

[laconicstudent]

Sarcalogos Deus said, "Except, you know, we have relics from the Twelve Apostles that haven't turned to dust. Not to mention the bones of Saint Peter." And I then replied, "Or so it's said the Catholic Church has them." In other words, the Catholic Church could possibly be lying about having such things or whatever they have could be the bones of someone completely different. I don't believe everything the Catholic Church claims to be true.

Yes, that's called a Confirmation bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sheina]

Where, Sheina, where?

If the location of Mary's grave was known, millions of people would make pilgrimages to the site to "venerate" and "worship" this grave. That's is the reason why God does not say where her grave is located.

 

[laconicstudent]

If the location of Mary's grave was known, millions of people would make pilgrimages to the site to "venerate" and "worship" this grave.

Indeed Sheina, and it doesn't appear to exist.

That's is the reason why God does not say where her grave is located.

That, and humans are generally capable of remembering where things are located in geographic space without direct, divine intervention.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Wiki.

 

[Sarcalogos Deus]

Well, well, aren't you special!!! How do you balance all this out with Scriptures?:

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

I've had those verses thrown at me since middle school by Baptists who no doubt had good intentions behind it. Anyway since then I've learned it's better to just not privy statements (or in this case posts) like this with a response about the verses in question. Since it just leads to a "uh, huh!" "Nuh, uh!" argument. Albeit with more regal language than when I was in middle school.

 

[laconicstudent]

Wikipedia! Wow. Yeah, that settles the argument right there. If Wiki is brought in, then that's the end of it.

Alright, lets try again.

"People tend to seek information that they consider supportive of favored hypotheses or existing beliefs and to interpret information in ways that are partial to those hypotheses or beliefs. Conversely, they tend not to seek and perhaps even to avoid information that would be considered counterindicative with respect to those hypotheses or beliefs and supportive of alternative possibilities (Koriat, Lichtenstein, & Fischhoff, 1980)."

From Nickerson (1998).


Is that good enough, or do you want to keep arguing the existence of basic psychological phenomena?

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Pot meet kettle...

 

[narnia59]

They were one of a list of the Heavenly Assembly....and Paul is exhorting us to see by faith what lies ahead, where we are going, and those who have already run the race...he is not commending that we communicate with them, but that we know that where they are, where the Angels are etc is where we are headed....Paul is getting us to use our eyes of faith, and not grow weary and take our eyes off the hope before us.

Out of deference to the request, I will only focus on this one. Frankly, you're wrong here. The author of Hebrews is not speaking of what lies ahead, he is speaking of what has already occurred. "You have come", not "You will come"

Hebrews 12:
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.

We have already come to the spirits of just men made perfect. Every time we approach in prayer the throne of grace, the heavenly Jerusalem, we come every bit as much into their presence as we do the angels, God, and Christ.

And while I don't disagree that Paul is the probable author of Hebrews based upon tradition, I am curious why you would accept this extra-Biblical tradition.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

In deference to the request of Sacerdote, I will make this the last reply and let the thread get back on to the idea that Mary was assumed into Heaven...something I don't really think took place and think is really part of extended evolving Catholic doctrine...but then I don't see Mary as sinless, or my Mother either.

As I said, I agree with you, Zazal. I guess this should also be my last reply in this thread, too.

 

[narnia59]

I'm in agreement with this. Mary was not assumed into Heaven, nor was she sinless nor is she my mother. There is no Scripture to back up any of these teachings.

I'm not sure how one believes they can become a brother to Christ and be adopted into his family, consider God as Fathe, yet exclude Mary as mother.

After all, Christ takes his human nature from Mary. In the sense of his 'parenthood', we are by nature his mother's "people". Yet some so can so easily refuse her motherhood while claiming Christ as brother.

How can we pretend to be Christ-like and not honor Mary as our mother?