the apocalypse

[victorinus]

The sixth, the one is. one is ? 455ad ?

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The prophecies are for when the Jews are in the land (of Israel).

this is all based on the roman empire being the first beast -
it was mortally wounded -
and replaced by the second beast islam

 

[Straightshot]

My comment

The 5th kingdom "head wounded" was the northern Seleucid, the last king, Antiochus IV [Daniel 11:21-35]

.... and Satan's beast that ruled over the same was sent to the abyss

Abaddon was not operating on the earth during the Roman Empire

This beast's next kingdom "head healed", the 6th, will appear at the beginning of the coming tribulation when Abbadon is released from the abyss [Daniel 7; 8; 11:36-45; 12:7]

Abaddon will inhabit the little horn, a king of the northern Middle East in the same region and expand the smaller 6th into the larger 7th .... a divided kingdom with 10 other kings [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

 

[Douggg]

this is all based on the roman empire being the first beast -
it was mortally wounded -
and replaced by the second beast islam

How does 455ad fit the timing of the verse for the sixth king? Revelation was not received by John in 455ad.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is (455ad ?) , and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

.

 

[Commander]

How does 455ad fit the timing of the verse for the sixth king? Revelation was not received by John in 455ad.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is (455ad) , and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

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Revelation 17:10 Five are fallen Julius Caesar(1), Augustus Caesar(2), Tiberius Caesar(3), Caligula Caesar(4), Claudius Caesar(5), and one is-Nero Caesar, and the other which this passage speaks of is Galba, who reigned for a short space of seven months.

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 17:10 Five are fallen Julius Caesar(1), Augustus Caesar(2), Tiberius Caesar(3), Caligula Caesar(4), Claudius Caesar(5), and one is-Nero Caesar, and the other which this passage speaks of is Galba, who reigned for a short space of seven months.

I agree with everything but #7. When he comes - he must continue a short space. But not Galba, the seven months you are saying.

What it is talking about is king #7 is the king that will be mortally wounded, but he comes back to life for a short time of 42 months - as the beast.

Galba would not match up with Revelation 12, either, because in that chapter the seven heads have their crowns. And that chapter 12 has the 7 years contained in it. When it gets to chapter 13, with 42 months in it, the seven heads no longer have their crowns, which the last of the seven kings has been killed.... although at the beginning of the 7 years in chapter 12, he has his crown. So the person is the seventh king at the beginning of the seven years, but will be killed right before the 42 months begin, and comes back to life (continuing the short space of the 42 months).

Take a look at those crowns/no crowns in each of the three chapters 13,12,17.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is , and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

 

[Straightshot]

My comment

The problem with the idea of historical Roman kings is that the beast's "heads" are his kingdoms and related human king positions of each .... not historical Roman kings

This is why the renderings above simply do not work out

The beast from the abyss rules over 7 human kingdoms for Satan, 5 have fallen and 2 more are scheduled for the time of the end .... and this beast was in the abyss during ancient Rome's rule and was not active upon the earth .... and still is not

The same will be released from the abyss at the time of the ending of this present age to rule again ... over his 6th, and 7th kingdoms, one after the other .... and this time the human king will be the little horn of Daniel's visions who will rule over both, first the smaller, and then the larger expanded/divide kingdom with his 10 other kings .... he will be the 11th king of the set [Daniel 7; 8; 11:36-45; Revelation 9:1; 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

 

[Douggg]

The problem with the idea of historical Roman kings is that the beast's "heads" are his kingdoms and related human king positions of each .... not historical Roman kings

This is why the renderings above simply do not work out

And specifically why don't they work? They are all of the fourth kingdom. The ten kings are of the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7. Which they pledge their kingdom to be the eighth king, the beast.

How did those ten kings suddenly become kings of an eighth kingdom - when the bible says fourth?

 

[Commander]

I agree with everything but #7. When he comes - he must continue a short space. But not Galba, the seven months you are saying.

What it is talking about is king #7 is the king that will be mortally wounded, but he comes back to life for a short time of 42 months - as the beast.

Galba would not match up with Revelation 12, either, because in that chapter the seven heads have their crowns. And that chapter 12 has the 7 years contained in it. When it gets to chapter 13, with 42 months in it, the seven heads no longer have their crowns, which the last of the seven kings has been killed.... although at the beginning of the 7 years in chapter 12, he has his crown. So the person is the seventh king at the beginning of the seven years, but will be killed right before the 42 months begin, and comes back to life (continuing the short space of the 42 months).

Take a look at those crowns/no crowns in each of the three chapters 13,12,17.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is , and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

It matches perfectly when you consider that the Jewish revolt started in 66 A.D. and ended in 73 A.D. (which is seven years). Nero committed suicide in 69 A.D. or 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, or 1290 days after the Jewish revolt started. The Jewish temple was also destroyed in the year 70 A.D.(Daniel 9:2). God's word is perfect.

 

[Straightshot]

Because the 7 human king positions of 7 kingdoms [heads] of the beast describe a very different picture over a long period of time .... Abaddon is an ancient fallen angel who rules over the 7 human kingdoms and related human king positions for Satan of which 5 have fallen and 2 are coming when he is released from the abyss at the end of this present age

The idea of Rome and its early kings does not fit this picture above at all .... far from it

Not to mention the fact that ancient Rome ruled during the time between the ending of the 69th week decreed for Israel and the beginning of the 70th

Rome is not seen in any prophetic vision .... not one

The difficulty is that interpreters have inserted Rome, the Arabian, Mongol, Parthian, Ottoman, and British into the breach of silence .... none of these are contained in the scope of the prophetic visions

The beast's next two kingdoms have nothing to do with the ancient Roman Empire, or any revived form of the same .... Abaddon's assigned kingdoms are all Middle Eastern .... the 5 fallen, and the next 2 are coming

 

[Straightshot]

"It matches perfectly when you consider that the Jewish revolt started in 66 A.D. and ended in 73 A.D. (which is seven years). Nero committed suicide in 69 A.D. or 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, or 1290 days after the Jewish revolt started. The Jewish temple was also destroyed in the year 70 A.D.(Daniel 9:2)."


Not true the 70th week [2520 days] decreed for Israel is still pending and has never come to pass .... 1260 days + 1260 days [42 months] not part of the 70 AD incursions .... this time frame is still pending

The preteristic view of the 70th week is bogus .... 70 AD was not the time of the end, and the Roman incursions are not even presented in any vision of any prophet

When the Lord gave His discourse of the time of the end He was looking much further and passed 70 AD to the ending of this present age

All one has to do is to study Matthew 24 and Luke 21:20-36 .... the things all taken together in these scriptures have never transpired, and certainly not in 70 AD, .... but they will with 100% accuracy

There are no prophetic events scheduled in the Lord's view, or of His his prophets during the period of His dispensation of grace still on going

Israel rejected Him and He was cut off .... this ended the 69th of the 70 weeks of years decreed for Israel .... the 70th week is still to come [Daniel 9:24-27]

 

[Commander]

"And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" Luke 10:18 . If Jesus Christ saw Satan fall from heaven, he is not capable of accusing us to God anymore. Revelation 12:10.

 

[Douggg]

The difficulty is that interpreters have inserted Rome, the Arabian, Mongol, Parthian, Ottoman, and British into the breach of silence .... none of these are contained in the scope of the prophetic visions

The prophecies apply when Israel is in the land.

You did not address how does the ten kings of the fourth empire in Daniel 7, suddenly become ten kings of the eighth empire?

 

[Commander]

"It matches perfectly when you consider that the Jewish revolt started in 66 A.D. and ended in 73 A.D. (which is seven years). Nero committed suicide in 69 A.D. or 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, or 1290 days after the Jewish revolt started. The Jewish temple was also destroyed in the year 70 A.D.(Daniel 9:2)."


Not true the 70th week [2520 days] decreed for Israel is still pending and has never come to pass .... 1260 days + 1260 days [42 months] not part of the 70 AD incursions .... this time frame is still pending

The preteristic view of the 70th week is bogus .... 70 AD was not the time of the end, and the Roman incursions are not even presented in any vision of any prophet

When the Lord gave is discourse of the time of the end He was looking much further and passed 70 AD to the ending of this present age

All on has to do is to study Matthew 24 and Luke 21:20-36 .... the things all taken together in these scriptures have never transpired, and certainly not in 70 AD, .... but they will with 100% accuracy

I have studied Matthew 24, you should read Matthew 24:14 and Colossians 1:23. I have also studied Luke 21:31 and Mark 16:19.

 

[Douggg]

It matches perfectly when you consider that the Jewish revolt started in 66 A.D. and ended in 73 A.D. (which is seven years). Nero committed suicide in 69 A.D. or 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, or 1290 days after the Jewish revolt started. The Jewish temple was also destroyed in the year 70 A.D.(Daniel 9:2). God's word is perfect.

King #6 is not the one who is mortally wounded. There are 7 kings with crowns in Revelation 12 with no wounded head - 7 years in that chapter. So the king that is mortally wounded cannot be until after king 7 has come to power.

Revelation 17 no crowns - the prophecy of the 7 kings unfulfilled - 1st cen.
Revelation 13 no crowns - the prophecy of the 7 kings over - 42 month left

Revelation 12 crowns - the prophecy of the 7 kings fulfilled - 7 years left

 

[Commander]

King #6 is not the one who is mortally wounded. There are 7 kings with crowns in Revelation 12 with no wounded head - 7 years in that chapter. So the king that is mortally wounded cannot be until after king 7 has come to power.

With God all things are possible. Yes, Jerusalem was destroyed in the year 70 A.D., which is in the middle of the Jewish revolt. Then after Galba came Othello and (?) which ruled a split empire. After these two the Roman Empire was then placed back under one Emperor which was Vespasian for a total of ten Emperors. Vespasian was the Emperor when the Jewish revolt ended in 73 A.D.

 

[Straightshot]

"You did not address how does the ten kings of the fourth empire in Daniel 7, suddenly become ten kings of the eighth empire?"


I have on this forum, but I will say it again

Abaddon is the one who rules over the 7 kingdoms [his heads] and related human king "positions" for Satan .... the 10 kings will be contemporary with his 7th human kingdom [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

And it is the human little horn of Daniel's visions who will rule over Abaddon's 6th smaller and 7th larger expanded/divided kingdom

And Abaddon will inhabit and fully possess the little horn at the Middle of the 70th week .... then he will rule himself over his 7th kingdom and become the 8th king himself for the 42 months [Revelation 13:1-5]

This infusion is indicative of a supernatural incarnation .... those who worship Abaddon will be astonished at what they see [2 Thessalonians 2:3-12]

This beast is Satan's "antichrist"

 

[Douggg]

With God all things are possible. Yes, Jerusalem was destroyed in the year 70 A.D., which is in the middle of the Jewish revolt. Then after Galba came Othello and (?) which ruled a split empire. After these two the Roman Empire was then placed back under one Emperor which was Vespasian for a total of ten Emperors.

you are going to make a great futurist......... Nero doesn't fit the crowns/no crowns. The seven kings, when all 7 come to power, which king #7 we don't have that guy yet - the little horn, then that is the guy who is going to get killed and brought back to life.

I like you analysis of the 6 kings of the Roman Empire. Though, you need to think the Julio-Claudian family - ending with Nero, and end times, the little horn.

I agree with the Roman Empire theme, but not in the preterist past tense fulfillment of the 7 kings, because it doesn't co-ordinate with chapter 12.

It's king #7 comes to power. And then he is the one who will be mortally wounded, and comes back to life.

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[Douggg]

.... the 10 kings will be contemporary with his 7th human kingdom [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

But it says the 10 kings will be contemporary in the 4th kingdom in Daniel 7 - not 7th, not 8th.


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[ewq1938]

this is all based on the roman empire being the first beast -
it was mortally wounded -
and replaced by the second beast islam

Revelation doesn't say the first beast is replaced at all and nor was it mortally wounded. One of it's 7 heads had what would have been a mortal wound but it healed from the wound. Islam is not either of the beasts in Rev 13.

 

[Straightshot]

"But it says the 10 kings will be contemporary in the 4th kingdom in Daniel 7 - not 7th, not 8th."


Some time I wonder about you Doug

7 kingdoms .... not just 4 .... the beast's kingdoms are his "heads" .... all 7

See if you can figure it out .... full scripture tells of 7 Middle Eastern kingdoms

Get your history book out and find the first 5 [all of these are in prophetic scripture] .... the next 2 are still pending .... and the 10 contemporary are on the 7th .... the human little horn is the 11th of the set

And the beast will inhabit him and become the 8th king of his 7 kingdoms himself .... the eyes looking out, and speaking great things [Daniel 7:8; 7:25; Revelation 13:5]

And know that a "beast" in Daniel's visions represents a kingdom

The 2 beasts in Revelation are fallen angels