the apocalypse

[Douggg]

Yes but what has been proposed is that 666 can also be 6,6,6 just three sixes and that is wrong.

Well, if I gave some one 6 dollars and another 6 dollars and another 6 dollars would that person have 666 dollars? So I think the 6,6,6 is out.

I think I would look at how 1260 days is written out, and compare. 11:3 is interpreted universally as 1260 days , not one thousand days; then two days; then threescrore days..... i.e. three separate periods of time. Comparable to 600; then a separate 60; then a separate 6.... first, middle, last name.

I for one don't know the 666 mystery answer.

I don't speak or understand Greek, as far as the interpretation being 666 a number like as in 666 dollars. . Maybe someone who does could add some clarity to the matter.

11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

 

[Douggg]

that's close -
you are the closest one so far

The king of the south will be the leader of the African nations that attack the beast - king of the west. All nations of the world will be involved. Russia, China, the United States, the EU, all nations. All nations will be drawn into the middle east in the Daniel 11 endtimes battles, in preparation for the big one which the world will try to stop Jesus from returning, Armageddon.

 

[Straightshot]

For the 666 mystery, resource the ex-terrorist turned Christian Walid Shoebat on the Internet

I don't agree with him totally, but he has the right leading

The number of Satan's beast, Abaddon/Apollyon, is also the number of the human little horn of Daniel's visions

6 Satan
6 Abaddon
6 The human little horn

 

[Straightshot]

I agree with Doug to an extent .... king of the south, Egypt .... south of Israel

King of the north [not west] .... this one will arise out of the turkey/Syria/Iraq/Iran region and confederate the entire Middle East populations under the banner of Islam .... north of Israel [Daniel 11:36-45; 12:7]

Understand that the entire earth is going to pounded by the Lord's unprecedented judgments including satanic and human warfare going on all at the same time [Revelation 6]

So the nations further outside of the Middle East will be in no condition to wage much war .... the earth will be a blade runner society with nothing but disorder

On the other hand Muslim terrorists can thrive in such an environment, and Satan's beast, who is a fallen angel like Satan, will have supernatural powers far beyond weapons of human invention [Revelation 13:4]

Here are examples of what this one will do to the king of the south [Egypt], the far north, and the far east, and to the nations west of his position in the Middle East [Daniel 11:44; Revelation 8:6-12; 14:8; 17:16-18; 18:1-21]

 

[Revealing Times]

how do you explain:
-john mentioning his name three times in the first chapter?
-eusebius and victorinus not aware of the seven churches?
-Jesus not mentioned in chapters 4 thru 11?

Because Jesus was dictating, and the Angels for the most part was passing along to John what to write, even explaining the visions to him at times. So Jesus mentioned John three times, not John.

Jesus was mentioned in chapters 1-4 because it was about the Church. Jesus in in Heaven marrying the Church after the Rapture, so most everything is done by his servants the Angels. Most references unto Jesus is after he Returns to defeat Satan and the Anti-Christ, unless he is mentioned as the Baby of chapter 12 or Man-child. Or at times mentioned as the Lamb.

 

[Revealing Times]

No, "we" don't. There is no bible passage collaborating a peace covenant "for 7 years". It doesn't even make sense to have a peace treaty stipulated to last only 7 years.

Sure it makes sense. Daniel is revealing prophecy, and he knows that when this agreement is agreed upon, there will only be 7 Years left in our Age so to speak, before Jesus reigns. So the Peace Deal happens with only a Week (Daniels last Week) or 7 Years left in the Age we are now in. So when that agreement is voided, IN THE MIDDLE of the Week or in the midst of the last 7 Year Period that Daniel has forecast, than the Agreement/Covenant will have been broken in he middle of the week or in the middle of the prophesied last 7 years as we know it. So unto Daniel, the Prophet, the Deal being a deal forever more or open ended, is just a 7 Year deal, because he knows how much time is left.

In other words, if I knew the USA and Mexico would vanish in 7 Years, and no one else did, but I pushed for a Trade Deal, most might see that trade deal as perpetual. But I would understand the trade deal is actually for only 7 years. Its semantics, but Daniel was the Author. And he knows when the final 7 years of the Age was to start, and he knew that at 42 Months the Anti-Christ would BREAK THE DEAL.

The 7 year schmitah cycle is well known in Israel and by Jews. The 7 years cycle of confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant is right in the bible, Deuteronomy 31:9-13 - but non of those commentators you are reading and/or listening to it are aware of it.

What you are telling me is a long time popularized view, I think coming out of the Dallas Theological Seminary. I read your comments and I can tell you know nothing about the Jewsish views on the messiah and their other beliefs. Which like you are working with only half the information to understand the end times.

I know all about the 7 year schmitah cycle, I also know God can use it as a curse to a disobedient people.

As per my knowledge on Jewish beliefs/understanding, don't sell me short. The Jewish Wedding Pattern clearly explains why the Rapture is Pre-Tribulation.........http://www.luke810.com/wedpatt.htm

 

[victorinus]

Or at times mentioned as the Lamb.

now imagine just for the moment -
john the baptist preparing the way without knowing the name -
john referred to Him as the Lamb of God -
the time was near -
what john the baptist wrote was later referred to as "ancient copies" -
a second john added the churches, antipas, and the name Jesus -
eusebius and victorinus never saw the second version -
see three johns

 

[Revealing Times]

"No, "we" don't. There is no bible passage collaborating a peace covenant "for 7 years". It doesn't even make sense to have a peace treaty stipulated to last only 7 years."


This is true .... it is the Lord who will confirm His long standing covenant with a believing remnant of Israel [the many] during the coming 70th week decreed [Daniel 9:24-27

This is not a "peace treaty" between the little horn of Daniel's visions and Israel

Like Doug says, the majority of the professing "church" does not understand that the prophecies of the Bible are centered upon the Lord's nation of Israel .... not the "church" of His dispensation of grace

Replacement theology, preterism, and proprietary religious "kingdom now" dominion thinking organizations have taken the mantel if Israel for themselves and relegated unfulfilled prophecy into the past

How is a Covenant between Israel and the Anti-Christ not about ISRAEL ? The Church is in Heaven (Rev. 19) marrying the Lamb. I understand ALL PROPHECY is about Israel, that is why the Seven Headed Beast is Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and Revived Rome, all 7 Enslaved or conquered Israel.

daniel
-
you can't do the apocalypse without getting into daniel -
so -
to make this interesting -
who is the king of the south? -
what say you
-
coming soon
-the four beasts
-the abomination of desolation
-
-
while I am waiting for someone to bite -
I will move ahead to the four beasts of daniel

Since there will be many African nations coming against Israel, I think it will be someone leading all of them, it is just a matter of who steps forward, but he will not last long, and is pretty much irrelevant.

The Four Beasts are clear. Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. We know the Bear is Persia for a few reasons, its description tells us this....5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. {{ He raised himself up on one side (just like the Ram at one Horn higher than the other, Persia was Stronger then Media) and the Bear had Three Ribs in his Mouth, signifying that he conquered three nations and history tells us that Lydia, Egypt and Babylon formed a coalition to try and fend off Persia-Media, but were not able to do so. Here you go, these are what the THREE RIBS REPRESENT....

Three Powers Defeated. Cyrus overthrew the Medes in 550 BC. Astyages had been allied with Croesus of Lydia, Nabonidus of Babylon and Amasis II of Egypt. So in the rise to power, Medo-Persia conquered three great powers - Lydia, Egypt and Babylon.

1. Lydia. Moving west in 547 BC, Croesus of Lydia, brother-in-law of Astyages, was defeated in the battle of Thymbra when the Lydian horses were spooked by the smell of the Persian camels. Croesus was a wealthy king who had allied himself with Egypt and Babylon against Medo-Persia - but they were all defeated.
2. Babylon. It was defeated in 539 BCE.
3. Egypt. To the south Egypt and Nubia were conquered by 538 BC. The conquest continued north against the Scythians in 513 BC. http://www.teachinghearts.org/dre04histempires.html

The Kingdom that was DIVERSE from the others was Rome. All of the other Kingdoms before Rome conquered and pillaged other countries. Rome brought forth the Pax-Romanus, they conquered, but promised locals could rule themselves as long as the heeded Romes directives, they could worship as they pleased etc. etc. Rome brought a common language Koine Greek, so that people could communicate throughout their Kingdom, Rome made sure all the roads led to Rome so to speak, or that the whole region was able to navigate much better. They built major Aqueducts to bring water to the peoples everywhere. They ruled by installing Governors over their own people but demanding taxes. THEY WERE FAR DIFFERENT...They were Diverse from all previous Kingdoms or Beast Systems that came before them. NOT ISLAM.

 

[Revealing Times]

now imagine just for the moment -
john the baptist preparing the way without knowing the name -
john referred to Him as the Lamb of God -
the time was near -
what john the baptist wrote was later referred to as "ancient copies" -
a second john added the churches, antipas, and the name Jesus -
eusebius and victorinus never saw the second version -
see three johns

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: ( Jesus showed it to John, and to Angels) Jesus referred to himself as the Lamb of God.

 

[victorinus]

The king of the south will be the leader of the African nations that attack the beast - king of the west. All nations of the world will be involved. Russia, China, the United States, the EU, all nations. All nations will be drawn into the middle east in the Daniel 11 endtimes battles, in preparation for the big one which the world will try to stop Jesus from returning, Armageddon.

well when you predict the future you are always right unless you give it a date -
I limit myself to history and I must admit I have a problem with chapter 16 -
so I keep watching and looking

 

[Douggg]

well when you predict the future you are always right unless you give it a date -
I limit myself to history and I must admit I have a problem with chapter 16 -
so I keep watching and looking

I don't have any dates that's for sure.

Daniel 11, part is historic, the verses about the back and forth conflicts between the Ptolemy's and Seleucid's. Those are kings of the North and South back then. There were no kings of the West and East in that historic account.

The end times verses begin in 11:36.

Where the BIG mistake people make is when it gets to the end times verses beginning with 11:36 - is that they take and project Egypt (of the Ptolemy's) and Syria/Turkey (of the Seleucid's) into the end times picture.

Those four kings in the end times are global kings, over many nations each. 11:36 doesn't even start out at the beginning of the end times. But in the second half of the seven years.

The person in 11:36 simply called "the king" who thinks he is God, has already gone through the Antichrist stage (the perceived messiah to the Jews, and they have rejected him ending his Antichrist foray) and has entered the beast stage or last 42 months, where the beast leads the West to be dominating the other three global quadrant powers.

Toward the end of the 42 months, the resources of the world necessary for survival will have dwindled down, and the King of the West will be funneling everything to his Western nations (conjecture on my part). That puts the rest of the world in dire straits - so they attack him. First the king of the South, leader of the African nations. Then, when the king of the North sees that going on, he joins in hoping to defeat the King of the West, the beast - who is going to have an awesome army.

As those battles are going on, the Kings of the East, who will want to defeat the King of the West, the beast, as well, are going to march west to the middle-east. That causes great concern for the beast. 200,000,000 soldiers coming at him.

But according to Daniel 8, no one can defeat him humanly speaking, so they are not going to be able to overcome him. What's happens though as they are gathered into the middle east - that's when the events of Revelation 6 the sixth seal takes place, and something that is beyond comprehension is going to happen - the heavens will part, the cosmos, and the world will see to the third heaven, and there will be Jesus, in glorified state, which is going to put the fear of God into the kings of the earth.

That's when they ban together to try and stop Jesus from returning, taking control of the earth, and passing judgment on them.

So Daniel 11:36 forward, the end times verses, is not some regional conflict involving Egypt and Syria. That's just not realistic.

* The end times bible verses are not that hard to understand if a person gets a hold of the idea that the person goes through about three stages.

First as becoming the little horn leader of Europe.
Then as the perceived messiah to the Jews, false King of Israel, the first half of the seven years, the Antichrist. Once that ends...
Then as the beast, global dictator, of Revelation 13, for the second half of the seven years.

That's it. Build everything around that, and you will be okay.

 

[Straightshot]

'So Daniel 11:36 forward, the end times verses, is not some regional conflict involving Egypt and Syria. That's just not realistic."


Maybe not realistic, but true .... the prophets are never wrong

The end time setting in the Middle East is the focus .... the little horn and king of the north [north of Israel] will confederate the Muslim Middle East by conquering and by making alliances

And his first land grab will be Egypt .... the kingdom of the south [south of Israel]

 

[victorinus]

'So Daniel 11:36 forward, the end times verses, is not some regional conflict involving Egypt and Syria. That's just not realistic."


Maybe not realistic, but true .... the prophets are never wrong

you can't say that about your interpretation

 

[Straightshot]

"you can't say that about your interpretation"


I can if I render the prophetic scriptures correctly

The prophets are focused upon Israel in the Middle East and the kingdoms of the immediate north and south

The prophets are never wrong even though a man might not see what is coming yet

The little horn of Daniel's visions is the king of the north and he will consolidate the current divides of Islam in the Midle East by conquering and by making alliances with other kingdoms in the region

His first "plucked" will be the land [kingdom] of Egypt [Daniel 7:7-25; 11:40; 42]

He will then move to add two other kingdoms by force and alliances will be made with the others [Daniel 11:36-45] .... then he will add Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount [Jeremiah 30; Daniel 11:21; 12:1-7; Micah 5:5-6; Revelation 11:2-7]

 

[Job8]

the church has no official view of the apocalypse -
what is presented here are my views -
they are not shared by the church -

That's a good thing, since your view is flawed. And it is even more egregious that your church has no official view of the Apocalypse.

 

[Douggg]

'So Daniel 11:36 forward, the end times verses, is not some regional conflict involving Egypt and Syria. That's just not realistic."


Maybe not realistic, but true .... the prophets are never wrong

The end time setting in the Middle East is the focus .... the little horn and king of the north [north of Israel] will confederate the Muslim Middle East by conquering and by making alliances

And his first land grab will be Egypt .... the kingdom of the south [south of Israel]

You better go look at Revelation again, the seals, the trumpets, the vials - those judgments are global.

 

[Douggg]

That's a good thing, since your view is flawed. And it is even more egregious that your church has no official view of the Apocalypse.

Well, I can't get down on Victorinus for being willing to discuss the end times outside of just the historist view, because it should be noted that he made an effort with this being an untagged thread. I think he deserves some credit for that.

 

[Straightshot]

.... Didn't say they were not

The Lord's judgments will be world wide .... no doubt, many earthshaking events .... no human untouched

However, the focus of His prophets are on the Middle East, Israel, and the surrounding Muslim states

The reason .... where He will return for all to see

 

[victorinus]

Well, I can't get down on Victorinus for being willing to discuss the end times outside of just the historist view, because it should be noted that he made an effort with this being an untagged thread. I think he deserves some credit for that.

thank you -
I really appreciate that

 

[Revealing Times]

The Great Harlot of Revelation 17 and Babylon of Revelation 18 are two different entities.

The Harlot represents All False Religion and is Judged, burned, and HATED by the Kings who destroy her. Why do the Kings in league with the Anti-Christ destroy her ? Because in their world, there can only be ONE GOD, so she is destroyed. Islam and all other religions will be destroyed *JUDGED*

Babylon represents the Final anti-God Government system, and the whole world minus the Church, that is being judged, hence when she burns (Plagues of God) the Kings CRY & WAIL for her.......Two different entities.