The Antichrist is Not Jewish or Israeli

1an · Oct 19, 2020

Dale said:
1an, welcome, since you are fairly new to Christian Forums.

Apparently you agree that the coming Antichrist is not a Jew or an Israeli, since you see this person as a Prince of Rome.

A couple of things puzzle me in the text that you apparently quoted. The author sees the European Union as a revived Roman Empire, so that an EU leader would be the "Prince of Rome." Dispensationalists typically see it that way. One thing that concerns me is that Rome is not the capital of the EU. Dispensationalists don't seem to realize that. The capital of the EU is Brussels, Belgium. Some sources point out that most of the EU bureaucracy is in Brussels but some offices are also in Strasbourg, France. Either way, the capital of the EU is not Rome, but Brussels, so it isn't obvious that an EU leader, or dictator, will be a Prince of Rome.

The author mentions the Roman general Titus as an antichrist-type figure because he lead the army that destroyed the Temple in Jerusalem. From the history I've read, Titus had orders to destroy Jerusalem and the Jewish Temple in retaliation for being a troublesome province. Titus actually sympathized with the Jews. Instead of carrying out his orders, he found an issue (as we would say) and delayed, sending to Rome for instructions. Given the harshness of discipline in the Roman army, Titus put his life on the line in an attempt to dissuade his superiors. In the end it did no good. Titus was ordered to destroy Jerusalem and the Jewish Temple and this time he complied. This doesn't make Titus an antichrist-type figure.

Hello, just to say, I see Rome as a military nation with their own national god rather than the place. Just my view. We know the Bible uses 'types'.

Just to add, I have been here since 2011 but got embroiled with some anti-Trinitarians on another forum, so when I came back after several years, still using the same screen name, they put me down as a newbie, saying there had been some major changes to the forum. The people I knew and loved aren't here anymore sadly.

Douggg · Oct 19, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Do you think God is going back to the Old Covenant during a future time?

Do you think Israel has lost it's inheritance to the promised land that God gave them as theirs forever?

Amos 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

BABerean2 · Oct 19, 2020

Douggg said:
Do you think Israel has lost it's inheritance to the promised land that God gave them as theirs forever?

Amos 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

The Son of God answers your question below.

Mat 21:33 "Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country.
Mat 21:34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit.
Mat 21:35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them.
Mat 21:37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.'
Mat 21:38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.'
Mat 21:39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
Mat 21:40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?"
Mat 21:41 They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons."
Mat 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE. THIS WAS THE LORD'S DOING, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES' ?
Mat 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
Mat 21:44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder."
Mat 21:45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them.
Mat 21:46 But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.

The nation bearing the fruits of the kingdom of God is found in 1 Peter 2:4-10.

If you think God owes something to those who reject His Son, see also 1 John 2:22-23, and 2 John 1:7-11.

.

Douggg · Oct 19, 2020

BABerean2 said:
The Son of God answers your question below.

Mat 21:33 "Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country.
Mat 21:34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit.
Mat 21:35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them.
Mat 21:37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.'
Mat 21:38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.'
Mat 21:39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
Mat 21:40 "Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?"
Mat 21:41 They said to Him, "He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons."
Mat 21:42 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE. THIS WAS THE LORD'S DOING, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES' ?
Mat 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
Mat 21:44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder."
Mat 21:45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them.
Mat 21:46 But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.

The nation bearing the fruits of the kingdom of God is found in 1 Peter 2:4-10.

If you think God owes something to those who reject His Son, see also 1 John 2:22-23, and 2 John 1:7-11.

.

The question was...

Do you think Israel has lost it's inheritance to the promised land that God gave them as theirs forever?

Amos 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

Do agree or disagree with Amos 9:15 ?

Randy777 · Oct 19, 2020

Dale said:
Many of those posting on the end times forum assume that the coming Antichrist will be a Jew. Some specifically say that he will be a Jew born in Israel and that the nation of Israel will hail him as their leader. Is this true? Should we take this scenario seriously?

Prophecy in the Book of Daniel makes it clear that the Little Horn person is a military Antichrist. He wages "war against the holy people," who are saved by God's intervention. If this person was Jewish or Israeli, there would surely be some mention that he is betraying his own people, but there isn't.

11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.
Daniel 7:11 NIV

21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.
Daniel 7:21 NIV

There is widespread agreement that the sea is a Biblical symbol of non-Jewish peoples, nations or tribes. Thomas Ice's notion that the Beast emerging from the sea points to a gentile, non-Jewish, origin for the coming military Antichrist, is solid.

The notion that the end-times antichrist must be Jewish is related to the belief that he must be accepted as the Jewish messiah. This doesn't fit with what Daniel says about this person "waging war against the holy people." The Dispensationalist theologian Thomas Ice doesn't accept the claim that Jews (or the State of Israel) will accept him as the Messiah.

"Just because the Jews make a covenant with the Antichrist (Isa. 28:15; Dan. 9:26), does not mean that they accept him as their Messiah. It does not follow from these texts either textually or
logically that Israel accepts him as Messiah (or Antichrist). ... ince they are not
accepting him as Messiah, the fact that he is a Gentile peacemaker is irrelevant."

Ice sees the coming Antichrist as a gentile peacemaker.

" ... iblical imagery supports a Gentile origin of Antichrist. Scripture pictures
Antichrist as rising up out of the sea (Rev. 13:1; 17:15). In prophetic literature the sea isan image of the Gentile nations. Thus, Antichrist is seen as a Gentile progeny."

Thomas Ice isn't the only one who believes that the sea the Beast rises from symbolizes gentiles or gentile nations.

<< Supporting the position that the Antichrist is not a Jew are passages such as Revelation 13:1 and 17:15, indicating that the Beast will rise up out of the sea. “The sea” in Scripture depicts the Gentile nations. >>

This is from an article, Must Antichrist Be a Jew?, in the Baptist Bulletin.

From an article by Chad Bird:

<< Swallowed by the Gentile Sea

Throughout the Old Testament, fish, great sea creatures, the sea and raging rivers were all emblematic of the Gentile world. For instance, deliverance from “the waters” is deliverance from “foreigners” (Ps. 144:7). The thundering of the Gentiles is like the thundering and roaring of the seas (Isa. 17:12). Gentile kingdoms and their rulers were likened to great oceanic creatures like legendary Rahab (Dan. 7; Isa. 51:9). Even in the New Testament, John echoes this imagery when he says “the waters” are “the peoples and multitudes and nations and languages” (Rev. 17:15). >>

From www.raystedman.org:

<< The land, the sea, and the trees are also used as symbols here. The land or the earth, is used frequently as a symbol for Israel throughout the Old Testament. Israel is viewed as a nation with stability because it had God as its head. It had structure, order, and foundation, and so it was depicted as "land." But the sea is used many places in Scripture to describe the Gentile nations (pagan nations, by and large), which had no inner stability because there was no recognition of the authority of God. >>

There is widespread agreement that the sea is a Biblical symbol of non-Jewish peoples, nations or tribes. Thomas Ice's notion that the Beast emerging from the sea points to a gentile, non-Jewish, origin for the coming military Antichrist, is solid.

Links

To download Thomas Ice article from Liberty University archive:

The Ethnicity of the Antichrist

Must Antichrist Be a Jew?

Chad Bird article:
Why Did God Add Fish to His Diet? | 1517

Message: To Jew And Gentile (Revelation 7:1-17)

I don't believe the man of lawlessness will be someone from Judaism as that one curses God, His dwelling place and everyone in it. He invades the Holy land and declares himself God.

He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.

Judaism holds to only one true God not Gods. As in the gods of his ancestors, which would point to someone whose heritage is not Jewish.

Oseas · Oct 19, 2020

Randy777 said:
I don't believe the man of lawlessness will be someone from Judaism as that one curses God, His dwelling place and everyone in it. He invades the Holy land and declares himself God.

He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.

Judaism holds to only one true God not Gods. As in the gods of his ancestors, which would point to someone whose heritage is not Jewish.

2Thessalonians 2

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that MAN of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

John 5:v.43 - 47
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name (AN IMPOSTER, a false MESSIAH. The Jews are waiting their peculiar messiah, not JESUS) him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Douggg · Oct 19, 2020

Oseas said:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that MAN of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Oseas, would you agree that is an act the person commits - and not a thing "setup"?

i.e. not the abomination of desolation.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Douggg · Oct 19, 2020

Oseas said:
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name (AN IMPOSTER, a false MESSIAH. The Jews are waiting their peculiar messiah, not JESUS) him ye will receive.

Yes, I agree with that.

But, Oseas, this is what I think you should consider. The person is anointed the King of Israel, Messiah.

That goes on for several years, before without warning he stops the daily sacrifice, and goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God (2Thessalonians2:4), revealing himself to be the man of sin, son of perdition (not the messiah as the Jews will have intially thought).

So what are the Jews going to do? They are going to reject him from continuing as their King of Israel, Messiah. It would be like the leader of Brazil or the United States one day out of nowhere, make some outrageous claim that he is God. That person would be impeached immediately.

So the Jews rejecting the person - ends his time as the Antichrist, King of Israel coming in his own name. And begins his short run to become the beast, the final king of the Roman Empire in the end times, leader of the EU, dictator.

Randy777 · Oct 19, 2020

Oseas said:
2Thessalonians 2

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that MAN of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

John 5:v.43 - 47
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name (AN IMPOSTER, a false MESSIAH. The Jews are waiting their peculiar messiah, not JESUS) him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Those people believed in Gods rather then a God? The AC did not hold to the Gods of His ancestors. That suggests someone who is not of Jewish heritage as I stated.

JacksBratt · Oct 19, 2020

Dale said:
Many of those posting on the end times forum assume that the coming Antichrist will be a Jew. Some specifically say that he will be a Jew born in Israel and that the nation of Israel will hail him as their leader. Is this true? Should we take this scenario seriously?

Prophecy in the Book of Daniel makes it clear that the Little Horn person is a military Antichrist. He wages "war against the holy people," who are saved by God's intervention. If this person was Jewish or Israeli, there would surely be some mention that he is betraying his own people, but there isn't.

11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.
Daniel 7:11 NIV

21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.
Daniel 7:21 NIV

There is widespread agreement that the sea is a Biblical symbol of non-Jewish peoples, nations or tribes. Thomas Ice's notion that the Beast emerging from the sea points to a gentile, non-Jewish, origin for the coming military Antichrist, is solid.

The notion that the end-times antichrist must be Jewish is related to the belief that he must be accepted as the Jewish messiah. This doesn't fit with what Daniel says about this person "waging war against the holy people." The Dispensationalist theologian Thomas Ice doesn't accept the claim that Jews (or the State of Israel) will accept him as the Messiah.

"Just because the Jews make a covenant with the Antichrist (Isa. 28:15; Dan. 9:26), does not mean that they accept him as their Messiah. It does not follow from these texts either textually or
logically that Israel accepts him as Messiah (or Antichrist). ... ince they are not
accepting him as Messiah, the fact that he is a Gentile peacemaker is irrelevant."

Ice sees the coming Antichrist as a gentile peacemaker.

" ... iblical imagery supports a Gentile origin of Antichrist. Scripture pictures
Antichrist as rising up out of the sea (Rev. 13:1; 17:15). In prophetic literature the sea isan image of the Gentile nations. Thus, Antichrist is seen as a Gentile progeny."

Thomas Ice isn't the only one who believes that the sea the Beast rises from symbolizes gentiles or gentile nations.

<< Supporting the position that the Antichrist is not a Jew are passages such as Revelation 13:1 and 17:15, indicating that the Beast will rise up out of the sea. “The sea” in Scripture depicts the Gentile nations. >>

This is from an article, Must Antichrist Be a Jew?, in the Baptist Bulletin.

From an article by Chad Bird:

<< Swallowed by the Gentile Sea

Throughout the Old Testament, fish, great sea creatures, the sea and raging rivers were all emblematic of the Gentile world. For instance, deliverance from “the waters” is deliverance from “foreigners” (Ps. 144:7). The thundering of the Gentiles is like the thundering and roaring of the seas (Isa. 17:12). Gentile kingdoms and their rulers were likened to great oceanic creatures like legendary Rahab (Dan. 7; Isa. 51:9). Even in the New Testament, John echoes this imagery when he says “the waters” are “the peoples and multitudes and nations and languages” (Rev. 17:15). >>

From www.raystedman.org:

<< The land, the sea, and the trees are also used as symbols here. The land or the earth, is used frequently as a symbol for Israel throughout the Old Testament. Israel is viewed as a nation with stability because it had God as its head. It had structure, order, and foundation, and so it was depicted as "land." But the sea is used many places in Scripture to describe the Gentile nations (pagan nations, by and large), which had no inner stability because there was no recognition of the authority of God. >>

There is widespread agreement that the sea is a Biblical symbol of non-Jewish peoples, nations or tribes. Thomas Ice's notion that the Beast emerging from the sea points to a gentile, non-Jewish, origin for the coming military Antichrist, is solid.

Links

To download Thomas Ice article from Liberty University archive:

The Ethnicity of the Antichrist

Must Antichrist Be a Jew?

Chad Bird article:
Why Did God Add Fish to His Diet? | 1517

Message: To Jew And Gentile (Revelation 7:1-17)

I thought he was to come out of Rome?

Douggg · Oct 19, 2020

Randy777 said:
Those people believed in Gods rather then a God? The AC did not hold to the Gods of His ancestors. That suggests someone who is not of Jewish heritage as I stated.

KJV Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Oseas · Oct 19, 2020

Douggg said:
Oseas, would you agree that is an act the person commits - and not a thing "setup"?

i.e. not the abomination of desolation.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

We are living in perilous times. LOOK, the proliferation of the extreme apostasy of this present time has developed, by the spirit of Devil, of course, an environment extremely favorable to the MAN of sin, son of perdition, a former Cherub, a former ruler of God's Garden, the Garden of Eden, this explains the reason by which this MAN is called of son.

By the way, churches are dying or are already died in the hands of fallen apostate angels, or apostate Ministers(2Corinthians 11:v.13-15), dragged by the TAIL of the Dragon, some like 1/3 of them.

Scriptures is fulfiling LITERALLY, the MAN of sin will manifest himself maybe next year or after, or even halfway through this decade, as was warned by Paul Apostle around two thousand years ago, saying:

2 Thes.2:v.9-13 - 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with ALL POWER power and SIGNS and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (they believes not in JESUS - John 5:v.43-47). 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: (THEY ARE LOST, THEY WILL PERISH FOR EVER BY THE HANDS OF GOD HIMSELF-Matt.10:v.27-28)
12 That they all might be DAMNED who believed not the truth(they refuse to believe in JESUS), but had pleasure in unrighteousness(they will believe in a false messiah-John 5:v.43-47. Whoso readeth, let him understand).

The MAN OF SIN or SON OF PERDITION has nothing to do with a military sistem, but a religious system. He is a former Cherub, he is a profound Torah connoisseur or wiser, as a Rabbi.

Deuteronomy 18:v.20- The Word is God
The prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods(god of this world-2Cor.4:v.4), even that prophet shall die.

chad kincham · Oct 19, 2020

Dale said:
Many of those posting on the end times forum assume that the coming Antichrist will be a Jew. Some specifically say that he will be a Jew born in Israel and that the nation of Israel will hail him as their leader. Is this true? Should we take this scenario seriously?

Prophecy in the Book of Daniel makes it clear that the Little Horn person is a military Antichrist. He wages "war against the holy people," who are saved by God's intervention. If this person was Jewish or Israeli, there would surely be some mention that he is betraying his own people, but there isn't.

11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.
Daniel 7:11 NIV

21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.
Daniel 7:21 NIV

There is widespread agreement that the sea is a Biblical symbol of non-Jewish peoples, nations or tribes. Thomas Ice's notion that the Beast emerging from the sea points to a gentile, non-Jewish, origin for the coming military Antichrist, is solid.

The notion that the end-times antichrist must be Jewish is related to the belief that he must be accepted as the Jewish messiah. This doesn't fit with what Daniel says about this person "waging war against the holy people." The Dispensationalist theologian Thomas Ice doesn't accept the claim that Jews (or the State of Israel) will accept him as the Messiah.

"Just because the Jews make a covenant with the Antichrist (Isa. 28:15; Dan. 9:26), does not mean that they accept him as their Messiah. It does not follow from these texts either textually or
logically that Israel accepts him as Messiah (or Antichrist). ... ince they are not
accepting him as Messiah, the fact that he is a Gentile peacemaker is irrelevant."

Ice sees the coming Antichrist as a gentile peacemaker.

" ... iblical imagery supports a Gentile origin of Antichrist. Scripture pictures
Antichrist as rising up out of the sea (Rev. 13:1; 17:15). In prophetic literature the sea isan image of the Gentile nations. Thus, Antichrist is seen as a Gentile progeny."

Thomas Ice isn't the only one who believes that the sea the Beast rises from symbolizes gentiles or gentile nations.

<< Supporting the position that the Antichrist is not a Jew are passages such as Revelation 13:1 and 17:15, indicating that the Beast will rise up out of the sea. “The sea” in Scripture depicts the Gentile nations. >>

This is from an article, Must Antichrist Be a Jew?, in the Baptist Bulletin.

From an article by Chad Bird:

<< Swallowed by the Gentile Sea

Throughout the Old Testament, fish, great sea creatures, the sea and raging rivers were all emblematic of the Gentile world. For instance, deliverance from “the waters” is deliverance from “foreigners” (Ps. 144:7). The thundering of the Gentiles is like the thundering and roaring of the seas (Isa. 17:12). Gentile kingdoms and their rulers were likened to great oceanic creatures like legendary Rahab (Dan. 7; Isa. 51:9). Even in the New Testament, John echoes this imagery when he says “the waters” are “the peoples and multitudes and nations and languages” (Rev. 17:15). >>

From www.raystedman.org:

<< The land, the sea, and the trees are also used as symbols here. The land or the earth, is used frequently as a symbol for Israel throughout the Old Testament. Israel is viewed as a nation with stability because it had God as its head. It had structure, order, and foundation, and so it was depicted as "land." But the sea is used many places in Scripture to describe the Gentile nations (pagan nations, by and large), which had no inner stability because there was no recognition of the authority of God. >>

There is widespread agreement that the sea is a Biblical symbol of non-Jewish peoples, nations or tribes. Thomas Ice's notion that the Beast emerging from the sea points to a gentile, non-Jewish, origin for the coming military Antichrist, is solid.

Links

To download Thomas Ice article from Liberty University archive:

The Ethnicity of the Antichrist

Must Antichrist Be a Jew?

Chad Bird article:
Why Did God Add Fish to His Diet? | 1517

Message: To Jew And Gentile (Revelation 7:1-17)

I thought for years that the Antichrist had to be Jewish, because Jesus told the Israelites they reject Him as messiah, but will accept the AC as their messiah - and they would never receive a non Jew, who isn’t from the House of David.

See John 5:43

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

chad kincham · Oct 19, 2020

BABerean2 said:
The interpretation you keep promoting, even though nobody else believes it, is part of the topic at hand.

You deny that the New Covenant could be in Daniel 9, even though the Messiah's death is in the passage, and then promote an idea nobody else has ever heard of before.

What is wrong with this picture?

.

The new covenant took effect at Jesus’ death - thus we know that at the end of the 69 weeks in Daniel, when Messiah Jesus was cut off in death, that the new covenant had to be in effect at that time.

Now we await the 70th week, when the son of perdition steps into the third temple, and stops the sacrifices, in the middle of the week.

BABerean2 · Oct 20, 2020

chad kincham said:
The new covenant took effect at Jesus’ death - thus we know that at the end of the 69 weeks in Daniel, when Messiah Jesus was cut off in death, that the new covenant had to be in effect at that time.

Now we await the 70th week, when the son of perdition steps into the third temple, and stops the sacrifices, in the middle of the week.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

He was cut off "after" the 69 weeks.
If I agree to paint your house "after" 69 weeks, it will not be painted until the 70th week or later.

The following is found in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.
It reveals the understanding of that time.

Dan 9:27 And he shal confirme the couenant with many for one weeke: and in the middes of the weeke he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the ouerspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation determined shalbe powred vpon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

.

Randy777 · Oct 20, 2020

Douggg said:
KJV Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Not sure why they chose Gods over God
JPS Tanakh 1917
Neither shall he regard the gods of his fathers; and neither the desire of women, nor any god, shall he regard; for he shall magnify himself above all
NIV
He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.
NSRV
He shall pay no respect to the gods of his ancestors, or to the one beloved by women; he shall pay no respect to any other god, for he shall consider himself greater than all.

Douggg · Oct 20, 2020

Randy777 said:
Not sure why they chose Gods over God
JPS Tanakh 1917
Neither shall he regard the gods of his fathers; and neither the desire of women, nor any god, shall he regard; for he shall magnify himself above all
NIV
He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.
NSRV
He shall pay no respect to the gods of his ancestors, or to the one beloved by women; he shall pay no respect to any other god, for he shall consider himself greater than all.

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

It seems like he would have to be Jew having a belief of there being God who is above all other so called gods - in order to claim to be God himself.

Because in Daniel 8, it says he will magnify himself in his heart, and in Ezekiel 28:2 it says basically the same thing, and references sitting in the seat of God (and 2Thessalonians2:4 indicating him sitting in the temple), it appears to me that the person will think he has achieved God-hood.

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Randy777 · Oct 20, 2020

Douggg said:
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

It seems like he would have to be Jew having a belief of there being God who is above all other so called gods - in order to claim to be God himself.

Because in Daniel 8, it says he will magnify himself in his heart, and in Ezekiel 28:2 it says basically the same thing, and references sitting in the seat of God (and 2Thessalonians2:4 indicating him sitting in the temple), it appears to me that the person will think he has achieved God-hood.

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

That isn't the point. If He has no regard for the "Gods" of His ancestors that doesn't suggest to me someone of Jewish ancestry. The King of the North invades the Holy Land. I don't get the impression that King who rises up, not be human power, outside of Israel who curses God and those in heaven was a Jew. So I agree with the "The Antichrist is Not Jewish or Israeli"

Douggg · Oct 20, 2020

Randy777 said:
That isn't the point. If He has no regard for the "Gods" of His ancestors that doesn't suggest to me someone of Jewish ancestry. The King of the North invades the Holy Land. I don't get the impression that King who rises up, not be human power, outside of Israel who curses God and those in heaven was a Jew. So I agree with the "The Antichrist is Not Jewish or Israeli"

You are basing your view on a disputed translation of Gods and not God.

Anti "Christ".

Mark15:31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

To be the King of Israel, a person has to be a Jew.

Randy777 · Oct 20, 2020

Douggg said:
You are basing your view on a disputed translation of Gods and not God.

Anti "Christ".

Mark15:31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

To be the King of Israel, a person has to be a Jew.

It's more than just anti-christ its also anti God the Father. Reveals himself in Gods temple. The King of the North is not someone from inside Israel. This person has no regard for God or the Holy Land. Which doesn't suggest to me one of Jewish heritage. Its unknown to all but God the background of this future lawlessness one. I just don't think it is one of Jewish heritage.

The Antichrist is Not Jewish or Israeli

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