The Antichrist is Not Jewish or Israeli

[Dale]

Many of those posting on the end times forum assume that the coming Antichrist will be a Jew. Some specifically say that he will be a Jew born in Israel and that the nation of Israel will hail him as their leader. Is this true? Should we take this scenario seriously?

Prophecy in the Book of Daniel makes it clear that the Little Horn person is a military Antichrist. He wages "war against the holy people," who are saved by God's intervention. If this person was Jewish or Israeli, there would surely be some mention that he is betraying his own people, but there isn't.

11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.
Daniel 7:11 NIV

21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.
Daniel 7:21 NIV

There is widespread agreement that the sea is a Biblical symbol of non-Jewish peoples, nations or tribes. Thomas Ice's notion that the Beast emerging from the sea points to a gentile, non-Jewish, origin for the coming military Antichrist, is solid.

The notion that the end-times antichrist must be Jewish is related to the belief that he must be accepted as the Jewish messiah. This doesn't fit with what Daniel says about this person "waging war against the holy people." The Dispensationalist theologian Thomas Ice doesn't accept the claim that Jews (or the State of Israel) will accept him as the Messiah.

"Just because the Jews make a covenant with the Antichrist (Isa. 28:15; Dan. 9:26), does not mean that they accept him as their Messiah. It does not follow from these texts either textually or
logically that Israel accepts him as Messiah (or Antichrist). ... ince they are not
accepting him as Messiah, the fact that he is a Gentile peacemaker is irrelevant."

Ice sees the coming Antichrist as a gentile peacemaker.

" ... iblical imagery supports a Gentile origin of Antichrist. Scripture pictures
Antichrist as rising up out of the sea (Rev. 13:1; 17:15). In prophetic literature the sea isan image of the Gentile nations. Thus, Antichrist is seen as a Gentile progeny."

Thomas Ice isn't the only one who believes that the sea the Beast rises from symbolizes gentiles or gentile nations.

<< Supporting the position that the Antichrist is not a Jew are passages such as Revelation 13:1 and 17:15, indicating that the Beast will rise up out of the sea. “The sea” in Scripture depicts the Gentile nations. >>

This is from an article, Must Antichrist Be a Jew?, in the Baptist Bulletin.

From an article by Chad Bird:

<< Swallowed by the Gentile Sea

Throughout the Old Testament, fish, great sea creatures, the sea and raging rivers were all emblematic of the Gentile world. For instance, deliverance from “the waters” is deliverance from “foreigners” (Ps. 144:7). The thundering of the Gentiles is like the thundering and roaring of the seas (Isa. 17:12). Gentile kingdoms and their rulers were likened to great oceanic creatures like legendary Rahab (Dan. 7; Isa. 51:9). Even in the New Testament, John echoes this imagery when he says “the waters” are “the peoples and multitudes and nations and languages” (Rev. 17:15). >>

From www.raystedman.org:

<< The land, the sea, and the trees are also used as symbols here. The land or the earth, is used frequently as a symbol for Israel throughout the Old Testament. Israel is viewed as a nation with stability because it had God as its head. It had structure, order, and foundation, and so it was depicted as "land." But the sea is used many places in Scripture to describe the Gentile nations (pagan nations, by and large), which had no inner stability because there was no recognition of the authority of God. >>

There is widespread agreement that the sea is a Biblical symbol of non-Jewish peoples, nations or tribes. Thomas Ice's notion that the Beast emerging from the sea points to a gentile, non-Jewish, origin for the coming military Antichrist, is solid.



Links

To download Thomas Ice article from Liberty University archive:

The Ethnicity of the Antichrist

Must Antichrist Be a Jew?

Chad Bird article:
Why Did God Add Fish to His Diet? | 1517

Message: To Jew And Gentile (Revelation 7:1-17)

 

[Douggg]

"Just because the Jews make a covenant with the Antichrist (Isa. 28:15; Dan. 9:26), does not mean that they accept him as their Messiah.

Thomas Ice makes an error as to what the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is. It is not a peace treaty.

It is the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Also, he makes the common error of referring to the Antichrist as a blanket term.

The person is the Antichrist only for the time he is the King of Israel coming in his own name. At other points of his life (as the little horn and the beast) he is the King of the Roman empire of the end times. Namely, the EU.

View attachment 286413

 

[Dale]

Thomas Ice makes an error as to what the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is. It is not a peace treaty.

It is the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Also, he makes the common error of referring to the Antichrist as a blanket term.

The person is the Antichrist only for the time he is the King of Israel coming in his own name. At other points of his life (as the little horn and the beast) he is the King of the Roman empire of the end times. Namely, the EU.

View attachment 286413

How did you reach the conclusion that the Covenant in Daniel 9 is the Mt. Sinai Covenant?
You have said before that the antichrist will confirm the Ten Commandments.
This doesn't make any sense to me. Daniel says the Little Horn will speak boastfully, defying all gods.

Your link leads only to one of your charts. It doesn't explain why you believe what is on the chart.

 

[Douggg]

How did you reach the conclusion that the Covenant in Daniel 9 is the Mt. Sinai Covenant?
You have said before that the antichrist will confirm the Ten Commandments.
This doesn't make any sense to me. Daniel says the Little Horn will speak boastfully, defying all gods.

Your link leads only to one of your charts. It doesn't explain why you believe what is on the chart.

Dale, when Daniel started praying in Daniel 9, he referred to Jeremiah and the length of time that
the Jews would be in Babylonian captivity while the land got here backlog of sabbath (once every 7 year) rests. Ten of them for a total of 70 years.

They call it a smitah year (spelled various ways). debts released. and the land getting a year's rest to recover from being worked.

So the 7 year periods in Daniel 9 are actually smitah cycles.

Moses back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 made a requirement that every 7 years, as being the smitah year, called the year of release in verse 10, the leader of Israel would read the law to the gathering of the people of Israel - I am assuming Moses timed it that way because people would not be tied to farming the land and would be available that practical year.

Moses also timed the reading of the law to the feast of tabernacles, and to the place of God's choosing. Since the time of the temple, that place is considered the temple mount.

All in all, what Moses was doing was setting forth a requirement to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 years cycle, i.e. for 7 years.

There is actually a name for the reading of the law on the 7 years cycle... called Hakhel.

ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakhel

"The term Hakhel (Hebrew הקהל) refers to a biblical commandment of assembling all Jewish men, women and children, as well as "strangers" to assemble and hear the reading of the Torah by the king of Israel once every seven years.[1]"

So that's is where I am coming up with the confirming the covenant for 7 years is talking about the Mt. Sinai covenant - by the Antichrist, perceived messiah, and anointed King of Israel, coming in his own name.

Until around three years later, thereabouts, he commits the 2Thessalonians2:4 act, revealing himself as the man of sin, and not the messiah as the Jews will have first thought. It will be the end of his time as being the Antichrist, King of Israel.

 

[Dale]

Dale, when Daniel started praying in Daniel 9, he referred to Jeremiah and the length of time that
the Jews would be in Babylonian captivity while the land got here backlog of sabbath (once every 7 year) rests. Ten of them for a total of 70 years.

They call it a smitah year (spelled various ways). debts released. and the land getting a year's rest to recover from being worked.

So the 7 year periods in Daniel 9 are actually smitah cycles.

Moses back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 made a requirement that every 7 years, as being the smitah year, called the year of release in verse 10, the leader of Israel would read the law to the gathering of the people of Israel - I am assuming Moses timed it that way because people would not be tied to farming the land and would be available that practical year.

Moses also timed the reading of the law to the feast of tabernacles, and to the place of God's choosing. Since the time of the temple, that place is considered the temple mount.

All in all, what Moses was doing was setting forth a requirement to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 years cycle, i.e. for 7 years.

There is actually a name for the reading of the law on the 7 years cycle... called Hakhel.

ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakhel

"The term Hakhel (Hebrew הקהל) refers to a biblical commandment of assembling all Jewish men, women and children, as well as "strangers" to assemble and hear the reading of the Torah by the king of Israel once every seven years.[1]"

So that's is where I am coming up with the confirming the covenant for 7 years is talking about the Mt. Sinai covenant - by the Antichrist, perceived messiah, and anointed King of Israel, coming in his own name.

Until around three years later, thereabouts, he commits the 2Thessalonians2:4 act, revealing himself as the man of sin, and not the messiah as the Jews will have first thought. It will be the end of his time as being the Antichrist, King of Israel.

I can't follow your reasoning. You are claiming that in the next few years, the State of Israel will anoint someone as a Jewish King. I can think of a number of reasons that this will never happen. Israel is a secular Republic and at least half the population is very secular in their outlook. Arab Israelis, both Moslem and Christian, would revolt.

The only way the the Orthodox rabbis would ever accept anyone as King of Israel is if that person was a direct descendant in the line of David. How would this coming Jewish King ever prove that he is a direct descendant of David? What evidence would the rabbis accept? I don't believe that this could be proven even if it were true and I don't believe the rabbis would accept proof if anyone could produce it.

 

[Douggg]

I can't follow your reasoning. You are claiming that in the next few years, the State of Israel will anoint someone as a Jewish King. I can think of a number of reasons that this will never happen. Israel is a secular Republic and at least half the population is very secular in their outlook. Arab Israelis, both Moslem and Christian, would revolt.

Dale, I never said that the State of Israel, the government, will anoint someone as a Jewish King.

There have only been three kings of Israel, the united nation before it broke up after Solomon.

The three kings were anointed King by a prophet.

Saul and David by the prophet Samuel
Solomon by the prophet Nathan

The Jew believe the messiah will be anointed the King of Israel by a known prophet as well. The Jews are looking for Elijah to appear right before the messianic age begins. The false prophet in Revelation 13 does a miracle of calling fire down from heaven, indicating that he will claim to be Elijah.

The person who becomes the Antichrist, King of Israel, will be anointed the King of Israel by the false prophet. That will be right before the 7 years officially begin, by the Antichrist reading the law to the nation of Israel from the temple mount.

The only way the the Orthodox rabbis would ever accept anyone as King of Israel is if that person was a direct descendant in the line of David. How would this coming Jewish King ever prove that he is a direct descendant of David? What evidence would the rabbis accept? I don't believe that this could be proven even if it were true and I don't believe the rabbis would accept proof if anyone could produce it.

The person will be a direct descendant from David. How he will prove it, I don't know.

The reason being that he will be a direct descendant from David is Jesus is the righteous branch descended from David.

In Isaiah 14, the person we are referring to is likened to an "abominable branch" which is just opposite of Jesus the righteous branch. Who that person draws God's ire because he destroys his land and slays his people - he is a Jew, descended from David.

19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

 

[BABerean2]

Thomas Ice makes an error as to what the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is. It is not a peace treaty.

It is the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Both of the above are wrong.


Dan 9:26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."



Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people for a period of about 7 years, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.
This was the 70th week of Daniel during the first century.


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[Douggg]

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people for a period of about 7 years, before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.
This was the 70th week of Daniel during the first century.

Daniel 9 does not indicate anything about the gospel taken to the gentiles. And there is nothing in the new testament of Jesus instructing any one to confirm the new covenant for 7 years.

But Moses did require that the Mt. Sinai covenant be confirmed on a 7 year cycle.

 

[BABerean2]

Daniel 9 does not indicate anything about the gospel taken to the gentiles. And there is nothing in the new testament of Jesus instructing any one to confirm the new covenant for 7 years.

But Moses did require that the Mt. Sinai covenant be confirmed on a 7 year cycle.

Does the Messiah die, based on Daniel chapter 9?

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Is Moses mentioned in Daniel 9?


Can you show any Bible scholar on the planet who agrees with you?


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[Douggg]

Does the Messiah die, based on Daniel chapter 9?

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Is Moses mentioned in Daniel 9?


Can you show any Bible scholar on the planet who agrees with you?


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23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The vision is the vision that Gabriel had earlier explained to Daniel in Daniel 8 of the transgression of desolation by the little horn person, time of the end.

The little horn person stops the daily sacrifice, as the person in Daniel 9:27 does in the middle part of the 70th smitah cycle.

Is Moses mentioned in Daniel 9, you asked. Yes, he is. A couple of times.

11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.

13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

 

[BABerean2]

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The vision is the vision that Gabriel had earlier explained to Daniel in Daniel 8 of the transgression of desolation by the little horn person, time of the end.

The little horn person stops the daily sacrifice, as the person in Daniel 9:27 does in the middle part of the 70th smitah cycle.

Is Moses mentioned in Daniel 9, you asked. Yes, he is. A couple of times.

11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.

13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

When are you going to show us a Bible scholar that agrees with you on Daniel 9:27?

Or, have you decided to come up with your own private interpretation?


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[Douggg]

When are you going to show us a Bible scholar that agrees with you on Daniel 9:27?

Or, have you decided to come up with your own private interpretation?


.

Let's just stick to the topic at hand.

 

[BABerean2]

Let's just stick to the topic at hand.

The interpretation you keep promoting, even though nobody else believes it, is part of the topic at hand.

You deny that the New Covenant could be in Daniel 9, even though the Messiah's death is in the passage, and then promote an idea nobody else has ever heard of before.

What is wrong with this picture?


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[Douggg]

The interpretation you keep promoting, even though nobody else believes it, is part of the topic at hand.

You deny that the New Covenant could be in Daniel 9, even though the Messiah's death is in the passage, and then promote an idea nobody else has ever heard of before.

What is wrong with this picture?


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If you only understood that Daniel did not have a vision in Daniel 9.

The vision Gabriel was referring to was the vision of the little horn's transgression of desolation, which includes the stopping of the daily sacrifice, time of the end in Daniel 8.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[BABerean2]

If you only understood that Daniel did not have a vision in Daniel 9.

The vision Gabriel was referring to was the vision of the little horn's transgression of desolation, which includes the stopping of the daily sacrifice, time of the end in Daniel 8.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Why are you ignoring the rest of Daniel 9:24 and its connection to Hebrews 10:16-18?


How do you know it was not a separate vision?

Once again, you claim to know things nobody else does.

Here we have another of your private interpretations.




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[Douggg]

Why are you ignoring the rest of Daniel 9:24 and its connection to Hebrews 10:16-18?


How do you know it was not a separate vision?

Once again, you claim to know things nobody else does.

Here we have another of your private interpretations.




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13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?


16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

 

[BABerean2]

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?


16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Is it your claim that all of the visions in the Book of Daniel are the same vision?



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[Douggg]

Is it your claim that all of the visions in the Book of Daniel are the same vision?
.

No, but Gabriel was the one who spoke to Daniel about the vision of the transgression of desolation by the little horn, which includes the stoppage of the daily sacrifice. And that the prince who shall come will stop the daily sacrifice.

The little horn person will be the prince who shall come. Daniel 8:9 tells where he comes from.

9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

 

[BABerean2]

No, but Gabriel was the one who spoke to Daniel about the vision of the transgression of desolation by the little horn, which includes the stoppage of the daily sacrifice. And that the prince who shall come will stop the daily sacrifice.

Are you claiming the daily sacrifices of animals were accepted by God after Calvary?

Are you claiming the daily sacrifice of animals was not stopped completely during 70 AD?


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[Douggg]

Are you claiming the daily sacrifices of animals were accepted by God after Calvary?

Are you claiming the daily sacrifice of animals was not stopped completely during 70 AD?

I am saying those are not part of the stoppage of the daily sacrifice by the little horn vision to take place at the time of the end that Gabriel spoke of.


Look at the correct square on the right...the transgression of desolation act of 2Thessalonians2:4 reveals the person as the man of sin.