The Antichrist is Not Jewish or Israeli

[Dale]

Thank you for the reply. That the pit was opened in the 5th Trumpet does not mean Satan had to open his door, but it does seem to imply coming out of the earth would be understood by those seeing him come out of the open door, they would understand who he was. So in a few verses we see the dragon waiting for the FP to arrive, through the connection of John using Daniel's beast.

The one that produced the first Greek king who also placed an image and introduced an AoD onto the Jewish people via their temple. Also because the FP is mentioned later, but John does not use the term antichrist once in Revelation. Not that John is lacking in knowing an antichrist. His other letters mentions many antichrist.

To a few verses later the beast coming out of the pit. Now in between we see the dragon helps the first beast. What is the reason behind dropping the name dragon after using it twice?

My take is the dragon appears first since the pit was opened first. There are Thunders that John could not reveal. Perhaps the dragon was more involved. Chapter 12 goes back into history, so standing by the seashore does not have to be right before nor right after the woman is protected. Nor do we have to wait till the 42 months to introduce the FP. It seems the 42 months start at the moment the saints are overcome.

Jesus Christ and the saints are told by God to vacate earth, and then God allows Satan 42 months of unrestricted authority. Only two human male witnesses are a thorn in his side. It is then the true deception side of Satan is revealed, and he is allowed to make an image in the likeness of the FP. He is allowed to breath life into that image. He is allowed his own Messiah, the AC. The image is not the FP. Satan is not the FP. Only the first beast from Daniel's prophecy can be the FP.

John never calls the image an Antichrist. It is not even human. It is a false Messiah though. Later it is the beast that gets destroyed with the FP at the battle of Armageddon and thrown into the lake of fire. Then Satan is once more the dragon bound for 1000 years. The beast from out of the earth does still speak with the voice of a dragon. The beast may have a human form with two horns like a lamb. The form he used to deceive the nations for the last 2500 years.

Tim: "That the pit was opened in the 5th Trumpet does not mean Satan had to open his door, but it does seem to imply coming out of the earth would be understood by those seeing him come out of the open door, they would understand who he was."

The notion that Satan ascended from the Pit (or the Abyss) is a misconception. Revelation 9 only says that smoke came out and locusts landed on the earth. There is nothing about any demon coming up through a tunnel from the underworld. A year ago I was discussing with someone who laid great stress on being able to distinguish Satan from Apollyon. I think that you are correct in assuming that Apollyon is just another name for Satan.

Some people are trying to tell me that Satan was knocked out of heaven by Michael during the events in Revelation and others are trying to tell me that Satan came up from the Pit. The truth is that Satan's influence has been felt on earth all along.

On what the locusts are, there are at least three schools of thought. First, the locusts could be insects eating up the food supply. Second, some points of the description seem to point to some type of military hardware: tanks, planes, helicopters, or submarines. Third, there is the Left Behind view, that the "locusts" are an army of demons crawling out of hell. This is the least sensible view but has been popularized in the Left Behind books and movies.

The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
Revelation 13:1 NIV

Tim: "Satan ... coming out of the earth ..."

Tim, if you are disputing the point that the Beast, the antichrist, emerges from the sea, it is quite clear in Revelation 13:1 that he does come out of the sea. As I pointed out in the OP, the sea symbolizes gentile nations, non-Jewish peoples, and so points to a non-Jewish origin for this person.

 

[BABerean2]

The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


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[Dale]

KJV Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Not sure why they chose Gods over God
JPS Tanakh 1917
Neither shall he regard the gods of his fathers; and neither the desire of women, nor any god, shall he regard; for he shall magnify himself above all
NIV
He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all.
NSRV
He shall pay no respect to the gods of his ancestors, or to the one beloved by women; he shall pay no respect to any other god, for he shall consider himself greater than all.

Both Young's Literal Translation and the Wycliffe translation say that both "God of his fathers" and "any god" are rejected by this person. The key point is that he exalts himself.


37 And unto the God of his fathers he doth not attend, nor to the desire of women, yea, to any god he doth not attend, for against all he magnifieth himself.

Daniel 11:37 YLT

37 And he shall not areckon (with) the God of his fathers, and he shall be in the covetousness of women, and he shall not charge any of gods, for he shall rise against all things. (And he shall not have regard for the god of his fathers, or the god beloved by women, indeed he shall not have regard for any god, for he shall raise himself up, or shall exalt himself, above all of them.)
Daniel 11:37 WYC

 

[Douggg]

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.


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"The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days."

That was a quote from the Judaism101 site, about what Jews believe regarding the messiah. The Jews rejected Jesus as the King of Israel/Messiah, and are looking for someone else - who will be the Antichrist.

 

[BABerean2]

The Jews rejected Jesus as the King of Israel/Messiah, and are looking for someone else - who will be the Antichrist.

About 3,000 accepted Him on the Day of Pentecost, and thousands more have come to faith since that time.


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[Biltong65]

Bilton65, welcome to the eschatology forum. respectfully, I think you have a lot to learn about the subject of the Antichrist.
View attachment 286584

"Anti-Christ" is "Pope".

 

[Oseas]

"Anti-Christ" is "Pope".

Not only the Papacy. Actually the Beast that rose up out of the sea, has seven heads and ten horns, and upon his (10) horns ten crowns, and upon his (7) heads the name of blasphemy.
Revelation 17:v.1 and 15 and 3
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with John saying unto him, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the Judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters: 15 - The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Question:
Where are placed these nations, and multitudes, and peoples, and tongues? They are:
1 - Europe
2 - Asia
3 - Africa
4 - Oceania(Australia)
5 - North America
6 - Central America
7 - South America

Verse 3 reveals that : the angel carried John away in the spirit into the wilderness: and John saw a WOMAN (a CHURCH) sit upon a scarlet coloured Beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns, that is the Beast of sea: Rev.13:v.1.

But one of the seven heads of the Beast will be wounded to death, or mortally. Which of the seven heads of the Beast of sea will be wounded?

Faced with this serious event suffered by the Beast in one of its seven heads, the Dragon -Revelation 13:v.11 - will give to the Beast of sea his Power, and his Seat, and great Authority.

Again: you said: "Anti-Christ" is "Pope".

Yes, but not only he:
1John 2:v.18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there MANY antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

 

[Douggg]

"Anti-Christ" is "Pope".

The Antichrist cannot be the Pope. The person has to be a Jew for the Jews to receive him as the King of Israel/messiah. And his religion Judaism, which he later turns from.

Here is the basic progression of the person we are talking about from beginning all the way to his end.

First - little horn, leader of the EU, 7th Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire, ten kings co-leaders.

Then - As the prince who shall come following Gog/Magog. Brings his army into the middle east to act as peace keeper.

Then - Anointed the King of Israel/Messiah, now the Antichrist, the 7 years begin. Perceived to be the beginning of the messianic era of peace and safety.

Then - 3 years later, thereabouts, reveals himself to be the man of sin, and not the Messiah after all, by committing the transgression of desolation act of sitting in the temple, claiming to be God. Shattering the perception of peace and safety.

Ending his time as the Antichrist. As the Jews will reject him from continuing as their King of Israel.

Then - God has the person killed for his act, and in disdain for him brings him back to life.

Now the person is the beast. The ten leaders of the EU, hand their kingdom over to him to act as dictator. The 8th Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire.

Then - False prophet has a statue image of the person (the beast) made and has it placed on the wings of the temple, i.e. the temple mount grounds. The abomination of desolation.

Triggering the great tribulation, which goes on for 1335 days until the day that Jesus returns, to cleanse the temple from the things that have made it desolate. Namely the beast and the false prophet. And the statue image of the beast, which at that time will have been incarnated by Satan.

My illustration of that day the temple will be cleansed...

 

[BABerean2]

the 7 years begin.

Based on Revelation 11:15-18, there is no 7 year tribulation period in the Bible.

Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation:


Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.


He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.


The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.


The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.


He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?


He comes on a horse in chapter 19.


He comes with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1.
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels have already been bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.


The only way to properly interpret the book is through the principle of "Recapitulation".

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[Douggg]

ased on Revelation 11:15-18, there is no 7 year tribulation period in the Bible.

Two errors in your statement.

1. "tribulation period" is not an end times concept. A big portion of the first half of the 7 years the world will be saying peace and safety. 1Thessalonians5:3.

2. you have a misunderstanding of Revelation 11:15-18, the timing of the 7th trumpet. We have discussed that multiple times.
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If you only understood that the vision in Daniel 9:23, that Gabriel referred to was the 2300 day vision of the little horn's time of the end transgression of desolation, and the temple being cleansed of those things that will have made the temple desolate in Daniel 8.

Then you would understand that the 70th shmitah of Daniel 9 is still unfulfilled which the 2300 days will fit into.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Daniel did not have a vision in Daniel 9, like he did in Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 of metaphoric symbolism, like beasts, he-goats, horns, rams, leopard, bear, lion, etc.

Gabriel when he spoke to Daniel in Daniel 9:24-27 used straight talk. He did not explain any metaphoric symbolism.

"To finish the transgression" in Daniel 9:24 is referring to the transgression of the little horn's time of the end transgression of desolation. That vision that Daniel had.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[Douggg]

Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.

Not returns in Revelation 6:15-17, but is about to return. The sixth seal is the sign of the Son of Man in heaven in Matthew 24:30a.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The part highlighted in blue is Jesus's actual return to earth in Revelation 19.

Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.

If you only understood that Matthew 24:30 consists of the Sign of the Son of Man in heaven (Revelation 6, the sixth seal) and then 45 days later as the kings of the earth gather their armies to make war on Jesus, Jesus returns in Revelation 19 and executes judgment on them.

 

[Douggg]

The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.

Okay, you believe that, correct?

Now go to Ezekiel 39:17-20, 7 years after the destruction of Gog's army.

Same type language, as in Revelation 19.

And in Ezekiel 39:21

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

....is that not Jesus speaking in the text having returned to earth? Having just executed judgment of the armies gathered to make war on him, just like in Revelation 19.

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If you go back to my post #88, the prince who shall come is right after Gog/Magog.

And then being the thought to be messiah to the Jews, and anointed the King of Israel/messiah - the 7 years begin. To end at Armageddon at the end of the 7 years at Jesus's return.

 

[BABerean2]

Okay, you believe that, correct?

Now go to Ezekiel 39:17-20, 7 years after the destruction of Gog's army.

Same type language.

And in Ezekiel 39:21

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

....is that not Jesus speaking in the text having returned to earth? Having just executed judgment of the armies gathered to make war on him, just like in Revelation 19.

__________________________________________________________

If you go back to my post #88, the prince who shall come is right after Gog/Magog.

And then being the thought to be messiah to the Jews, and anointed the King of Israel/messiah - the 7 years begin. To end at Armageddon at the end of the 7 years at Jesus's return.

The link below has it mostly correct.

Gog of Magog - Here a little, there a little - Prophecy


I ignore the last 6 words of his conclusion, because he is wrong on the Millennium.

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[Douggg]

The link below has it mostly correct.

I explained it - exactly correct. And no that link does not have it correct.

The Gog/Magog event takes place while Israel is at rest. Which is 7 years prior to Armageddon, and being in the great tribulation.

 

[BABerean2]

I explained it - exactly correct.

You have also "explained" Daniel 9:27, but we cannot find anyone on the planet who agrees with you, and neither can you.

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[Douggg]

You have also "explained" Daniel 9:27, but we cannot find anyone on the planet who agrees with you, and neither can you.

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Just because you want to go on a boondoggle, doesn't mean that I have to.

boondoggle
[ˈbo͞onˌdäɡəl]
NOUN

1. work or activity that is wasteful or pointless but gives the appearance of having value

____________________________________________________________

Just stick to the topic at hand. You never did answer...

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

....is that not Jesus speaking in the text having returned to earth? Having just executed judgment of the armies gathered to make war on him, just like in Revelation 19.

 

[BABerean2]

Just because you want to go on a boondoggle, doesn't mean that I have to.

boondoggle
[ˈbo͞onˌdäɡəl]
NOUN

1. work or activity that is wasteful or pointless but gives the appearance of having value

____________________________________________________________

Just stick to the topic at hand. You never did answer...

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

....is that not Jesus speaking in the text having returned to earth? Having just executed judgment of the armies gathered to make war on him, just like in Revelation 19.

Why did James address his letter to "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" in James 1:1-3, hundreds of years after the Northern tribes were taken into captivity?


Was James also addressing those who had been mixed in with the Gentiles, like the Samaritans?


Almost every person on this forum is a direct descendant of Abraham, because the Northern tribes became mixed in with the peoples of Europe, and Asia.
This is a scientific fact.
Why did Paul warn against genealogies in Titus 3:9?

Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine have to ignore Titus 3:9, or see their doctrine fall apart.


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[Douggg]

Why did James address his letter to "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" in James 1:1-3, hundreds of years after the Northern tribes were taken into captivity?

Because that was who James was writing to.

 

[BABerean2]

Because that was who James was writing to.

Are you saying James was not addressing his letter to the Church?


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[Douggg]

Are you saying James was not addressing his letter to the Church?


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Do you mean like this...?

Galatons 1:2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia: