The AntiChrist.....a person??

[Bulldog]

Hello all,

I am not fidning any scripture that would support the idea that the AntiChrist is a physical, single person. The only verses that use the word "antichrist" are in the epistles of John.




1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.



1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.



1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


Simple conclusions from these verses would lead us to believe that the Antichrist is a spirit that moves along the spirits of unbelievers, and that this was around at the time of John.

Or am I just missing the "premillennial picture"? Are there verses I'm ignoring?



2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Hello all,

I am not fidning any scripture that would support the idea that the AntiChrist is a physical, single person. The only verses that use the word "antichrist" are in the epistles of John.

2nd Thess 2:1-4 ~ 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition (hell);
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
He can't be a spirit, because he will be seen and sitting in the temple.

 

[Bulldog]

2nd Thess 2:1-4 ~ 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition (hell);
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
He can't be a spirit, because he will be seen and sitting in the temple.

Okay Nana, but first of all, you have not shown why the 1 John verses do not teach that the antichrist is a spirit. Secondly, I don't see the word "AntiChrist" in that verse. I do not deny the Biblical teaching of a man rising up in the end times doing some pretty nasty things, but I am curious as to why this man is referred to as the AntiChrist by premils.

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Okay Nana, but first of all, you have not shown why the 1 John verses do not teach that the antichrist is a spirit. Secondly, I don't see the word "AntiChrist" in that verse. I do not deny the Biblical teaching of a man rising up in the end times doing some pretty nasty things, but I am curious as to why this man is referred to as the AntiChrist by premils.

I see Just The Facts is on here now. Go for it JTF, and explain about the pit, LOL. I believe that we sort of part company on the AC. Not who he is, but the entering a human part....or do we?

 

[brother daniel]

" Simple conclusions from these verses would lead us to believe that the Antichrist is a spirit that moves along the spirits of unbelievers, and that this was around at the time of John."
Amen, but the Holy Spirit also warns that all forms of unbelief will be focused in a world leader who will deceave many in the name of peace and have absolute control of global commercial exchange through a System of marking.
Calling that person "The anti- christ". is not a misnomer.

 

[Justme]

Hi Nana,

He can't be a spirit, because he will be seen and sitting in the temple.

This just came up on another forum too....Anyway-

If He can't be a spirit, how do you deal with this.

6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

The 'man' of lawlessness IS being held back as Paul writes. It is NOW held back...........are you sure you don't want this to be a spirit?

If this is seen in the temple, is this the abomination to appear to trigger the flight of the people out of Judea?

Justme

 

[brother daniel]

ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION
"whoso readeth, let him understand: The holy spirit wants us to understand
1. Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
2. Mark 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Now for an understanding read
Luke 21:20-22*
20And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

THE KEY WORDS HERE are "Jerusalem compassed with ARMYS" in the place of abomination of desolation
*** 22For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
3. Luke 16:15
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
ARMIES are highly estemed among MEN
4. Revelation 21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
From this I see that making armies is working an abomination.
Jerusalem is now surrounded by armies as it was in 70 AD and during the times of the crusades. This is a warning to everyone not only Jews.Political Israel has only one allie and thats the US government.

 

[Bulldog]

" Simple conclusions from these verses would lead us to believe that the Antichrist is a spirit that moves along the spirits of unbelievers, and that this was around at the time of John."
Amen, but the Holy Spirit also warns that all forms of unbelief will be focused in a world leader who will deceave many in the name of peace and have absolute control of global commercial exchange through a System of marking.
Calling that person "The anti- christ". is not a misnomer.

Okay, but isn't there more than one antichrist?

 

[brother daniel]

Yes there is more than one person that is anti christ, a great many more.
But the word of God is directing us to watch for a person in the end, who will in the name of Jesus and peace take over control of Jesrsalem.
From my study of the Mark and the number 666 it points to the six pointed star. A magical seal of Solomon introduced into Israel when Solomon married the Egyptian Pharohs daughter. It never had anything to do with David.
Many would be surprised to know that this 6 pointed Star is all over the inside of the mosque on Temple Mount. It is also an important symbol among Free Masons.
Is it a hunch? I see a security device embedded with such a star being required for anyone to enter Jerusalem. Its possable that device will be an electronic implant.
As the endless war on terror advances against all resisters of the NEW WORLD ORDER and *** population control of the globe through electronic identification and money is an absolute necessity. Jesus is Lord, WE have all been warned for 2,000 years.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Okay, but isn't there more than one antichrist?

There are many antichrists. Will be until the Second Coming.
However, when referring to the "Antichrist" - the one described here:
Rev 13:1 And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns {were} ten diadems, and on his heads {were} blasphemous names.

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like {those} of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.

Rev 13:3 {I saw} one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed {and followed} after the beast;

Rev 13:4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"

Rev 13:5 There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, {that is,} those who dwell in heaven.

Rev 13:7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, {everyone} whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.



...then we are talking of a particular man. An I beleive it is a man because of this:

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.
and because of the reference mentioned about the 'man of sin', and other references. We even have an OT 'type' in Antiochus Epiphanes - who descrated a pig in the Holy Place (an abomination) and declared himself God when in the temple.


And the beast is not Nero - he was long dead before Revelation was written, and about 1 1/2 years before the fall of Jerusalem.

 

[Brain Damage]

Hello all,

I am not fidning any scripture that would support the idea that the AntiChrist is a physical, single person. The only verses that use the word "antichrist" are in the epistles of John.




1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.



1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.



1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


Simple conclusions from these verses would lead us to believe that the Antichrist is a spirit that moves along the spirits of unbelievers, and that this was around at the time of John.

Or am I just missing the "premillennial picture"? Are there verses I'm ignoring?



2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Quote-Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.


Well John said it was the "last hour" so according to preterist logic , Anti-christs or the spirit of Anti-christ must have been done away with within 60 minutes of him saying that...lol

 

[Big Mouth Nana]

Quote-Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.


Well John said it was the "last hour" so according to preterist logic , Anti-christs or the spirit of Anti-christ must have been done away with within 60 minutes of him saying that...lol

You are just to funny BD . Good point though.

 

[brother daniel]

There is confusion among many considering THE BEAST in Revolation 13
For understanding from the Holy Ghost we need to look at Revolation 17
Revelation 17 and more about the beast
7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
NOTICE THE BEAST HAS 7 HEADS AND 10 horns
*** 8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

In the scriptures "mountain" is oftened used to mean kingdom. According to my understanding, these kingdoms are the 7 sucessive governments that have controled world trade.

10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
At the time of JOHN was having this Revelation from Jesus, 1.EGYPT, 2.ISRAEL. 3,BABYLON, 4,MEDO_PERSIA, and 5.GREECE had fallen ROME was the one "that is"
7. The NEW WORLD ORDER formed from the 1919 League of Nations and the 1945 UNITED NATIONS is the one that "is to come" in the time of John.
Out of that 7th head sprang the 8th ISRAEL by United Nation Charter in 1948
11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
This should be considered in light of the prophecy in Ezekiel concerning "The wicked prince of Israel when iniquity shall have its end.

12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Meaning "THE NEW WORLD ORDER". and its ***
14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
I havent included Assyria as one of the beasts heads because it never controled world trade of its time. Jesus is Lord.

***

 

[Justme]

Hi Brain Damage,

Quote-Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.


Well John said it was the "last hour" so according to preterist logic , Anti-christs or the spirit of Anti-christ must have been done away with within 60 minutes of him saying that...lo

l

Well, of course, it is OBVIOUS that John is saying "hey, guys, the anti christ won't show up for more than 2000 years"

Justme

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Just


quote
Well, of course, it is OBVIOUS that John is saying "hey, guys, the anti christ won't show up for more than 2000 years"
end Quote


yes that is EXACTLY what PETER SAID

8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

he then goes on to say

10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

yes the Earth and everything on it burned up .............when was that again......................oh ya 70 AD.......................PLEASE .............................such are doctrines of demons.

 

[Justme]

Hi Just the facts,

No, I was talking about John...

yes the Earth and everything on it burned up .............when was that again......................oh ya 70 AD.......................PLEASE .............................such are doctrines of demons.

Do those pesky preterists actually say that the earth and everything on the earth will burn,as in fire burn, in 70 AD? I wouldn't believe that either. Why would they say that, everybody knows there was no earth-wide fire in 70 AD? Are you sure preterists say that?

Justme

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi


No I believe Preterists say that it is all figurative..............they spiritualise it away.

Saying it refers to the Temple and the Land of Judea in 70 AD as the Romans burnt the towns and cities.

The whole term Anti Christ ....does not apply to the Beast at all.......................it is just the popular name given by the less studied.

It is actually VERY VERY misleading........because the Beast does not come against Christ............... or denying Christ........................ he comes claiming he is Christ.

So he is not the Spirit of AC at all...................he is disguised as an Angel of Light..................

 

[brother daniel]

It would be good to examine the word of God and THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST for correct understanding. Jesus has given us his Holy Spirit to guide us. Why dont we see what the word of God says about this.

There is confusion among many considering THE BEAST in Revolation 13
For understanding from the Holy Ghost we need to look at Revolation 17
Revelation 17 and more about the beast
7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
NOTICE THE BEAST HAS 7 HEADS AND 10 horns
*** 8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

In the scriptures "mountain" is oftened used to mean kingdom. According to my understanding, these kingdoms are the 7 sucessive governments that have controled world trade( the Leviethen).

10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
At the time of JOHN was having this Revelation from Jesus, 1.EGYPT, 2.ISRAEL. 3,BABYLON, 4,MEDO_PERSIA, and 5.GREECE had fallen ROME was the one "that is"
7. The NEW WORLD ORDER formed from the 1919 League of Nations and the 1945 UNITED NATIONS is the one that "is to come" in the time of John.
Out of that 7th head sprang the 8th ISRAEL by United Nation Charter in 1948
11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
From the above it sounds to me like the beast will be governed by a person who falsely claims to be a "messianic Jew" and is in charge of Jerusalem.
This should be considered in light of the prophecy in Ezekiel concerning "The wicked prince of Israel when iniquity shall have its end".

12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Meaning "THE NEW WORLD ORDER". and its ***
14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
I havent included Assyria as one of the beasts heads because it never controled world trade of its time. Jesus is Lord. I am not debating, just studying and sharing what I have come up with so far. Whats your reaction?

 

[Justme]

Hi Just the Facts,

No I believe Preterists say that it is all figurative..............they spiritualise it away.

Oh, I see they say it occurs in the spiritual realm. Tell me, have you any way to prove that it doesn't happen in the spiritual realm? Like how would you know if something happened in Heaven in the first century or not?

Saying it refers to the Temple and the Land of Judea in 70 AD as the Romans burnt the towns and cities.

Don't take my word for it because I can't speak for the full preterists, but I don't think they tie the 'fire' into the temple or the land of Judea. I think they say there is a connection time wise, but the fire has nothing to do with the temple itself.

The whole term Anti Christ ....does not apply to the Beast at all.......................it is just the popular name given by the less studied.

This is the anti christ:
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist–he denies the Father and the Son.

Who/what is the beast? Let's say the beast that comes up out of the sea? Or the beast of the earth. It can't be Satan because that is the dragan that was already on the shore when the beasts show up.
I think I'll go with the beast is the abomination that causes desolation. That will be plan A.

It is actually VERY VERY misleading........because the Beast does not come against Christ............... or denying Christ........................ he comes claiming he is Christ.

Oh, drat, well, that would sound like the man of lawlessness.

So he is not the Spirit of AC at all...................he is disguised as an Angel of Light..................

Good, so what is that?

Justme

 

[Brain Damage]

Hi Brain Damage,

l

Well, of course, it is OBVIOUS that John is saying "hey, guys, the anti christ won't show up for more than 2000 years"

Justme

No he didn't say that , he said it was the last hour , the last 60 minutes.

Without lying , because jesus didn't teach you to lie , can you tell me what happened 60 minutes after he had said that ?...because that's what he said , "it is the last hour".