The AntiChrist.....a person??

[Just The Facts]

Hi Daniel

Azazel is the Beast in the Pit and he is in scripture.....................

Rev 17:8: The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

rev 9:11: And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Now Iam sure you are aware that Destroyer is not his Name .........it is his Title..............that is always done with the enemy in Hebrew............... he is called by his action not his name.........................Ie the Shishack out of the OT means sacker of cities.

Now here what God says Azazel did

Enoch 10:10Restore the earth, which the angels have corrupted; and announce life to it, that I may revive it. 11All the sons of men shall not perish in consequence of every secret, by which the Watchers have destroyed, and which they have taught, their offspring.

Azazel is their King to him ascribe the whole crime

12All the earth has been corrupted by the effects of the teaching of Azazel. To him therefore ascribe the whole crime.

So here we have God calling Azazel the Destroyer or the one who destroys.............Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.........the Destroyer

Now if you are going to come back and say Enoch is not scripture .............then I will have to inform you that it is and Jesus Peter Paul James John ALL QUOTE ENOCH.....................Now how is it that Jesus and the Saints read it quoted it as the words of a prophet of God............yet we let a group of self-serving self-righteous men tell us it is not the word of God....................their main objection to the book is it shows just how wrong they are. In addition since the most disputed parts showed up in the dead sea scrolls...............we can be sure that what we have is a copy of the book Jesus and the Apostles quoted.

Azazel is the king of the Fallen Angels

Enoch 10: 6Again the Lord said to Raphael, Bind Azazel hand and foot; cast him into darkness; and opening the desert which is in Dudael, cast him in there. 7Throw upon him hurled and pointed stones, covering him with darkness; 8There shall he remain for ever; cover his face, that he may not see the light. 9And in the great day of judgment let him be cast into the fire.


2Pt:2:4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude:1:6: And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Do not be fooled Daniel ...........Azazel is the Beast locked in the Pit....................HE IS NOT THE DEVIL........................The Devil roams the Earth........

1Pt:5:8: Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Azazel has been in the pit since the flood. He is Baal the God of War and Forces.

 

[Just The Facts]

HI Just me


quote

This is the most confusing thing I see on this forum. What is this about the Christians in the Great tribulation? Where does that come from? It is not followers of Jesus who are killed in the great tribulation, it is the people who reject Christ. The followers are told to flee Judea before this great tribulation even starts. There are no believers in the great tribulation in the first place.

End Quote


Wow are you ever wrong about that

7:9: After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10: And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11: And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12: Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13: And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14: And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

It is VERY VERY CLEAR that the Saints of the Great tribulation are Killed.....................

Rev 6:11: And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

You are just soo wrong about soooo many things it is impossible to discuss with you because just like all preterists you deny the plain words of God in an invain attempt to validate your doctrines of men.

So before we go any further will you agree you are wrong and that many Christians are murdered in the Great tribulation.

 

[Justme]

Hi Just the Facts,

Okay, so the thread is about the anti christ being a person and to explain how that works we have to know about the end time and now we have jogged over to who dies in the tribulation. Hey, I can live with that.

Wow are you ever wrong about that

Well, it is either me or you, let's find out who?

It is VERY VERY CLEAR that the Saints of the Great tribulation are Killed.....................

So then you quote these verses:

7:9: After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10: And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11: And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12: Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13: And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14: And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb

Remember I showed you that every nation of Jews under Heaven were there in Jerusalem? Do you also remember from Acts that they all spoke in different tonques?(dilects,languages)

Where does it say they are dead christians from before, it only says they came out of the great tribulation? There is no reference to them being christians at the time they were killed.

Rev 6:11: And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Here we have the martyrs, here we have those who were killed because of their testimony of Jesus. So tell us, JTF, why would God get these people pulling for Him and then kill them off? They are not all dead yet at the time this is written and God has not taken revenge for their deaths yet. That happens during the time of wrath, the time of distress, the great tribulation.

Did you not notice the seals that are being talked about. These in verse 6 are dead before the great tribulation starts. Those in Chapter 7 that have on the white robes came OUT of the tribulation.

That is why I told you before that the martyrs and the saints were not at the exact same time as the destruction of the temple.

The people who die in the great tribulation are the ones who suffer the wrath of God. Do you consider God to go out and start smokin' His ardent followers?

So before we go any further will you agree you are wrong and that many Christians are murdered in the Great tribulation.

The way it works is we we go thru this and determine just who it is that is wrong. Then the one who is wrong forgets it all anyway and goes back to flogging a false religious doctrine. At least that is how it usually works.

Now to verses that do tell us who dies in the great tribulation or who are the targets of the wrath of God.

You will know of the parable of the weeds from Matthew 13.
Here is the parable explained.
37He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

Notice the end of the age there and that the weeds are the enemy and they are burned,well, I'll let Jesus tell the story:

40“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Here is the visions' rendition of that harvest of the earth.

Rev 14
The Harvest of the Earth

14I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one “like a son of man” with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

19The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath. 20They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.

Who is God ticked off at that He decides to go with this wrath idea?
Matthew 23
15“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

ANd here we get to the nitty gritty. Does this look like Christians to you?

33“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth,

Just in case you are wondering who this is directed at, it is spelled out here:

37“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you delasote.

Now where did that multitude come from that was in Heaven as John saw the vision, those with the white robes who came out of the great tribulation.

It is the ones who see the light as Jesus returns and they repent and accept Jesus Christ.

39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’

I have mentioned this a dozen times before, but I doubt anyone has ever considered it yet.

In Matthew 24 it says:

“Watch out that no one deceives you

6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars,

9“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.

15“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,

20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

Does that not sound like the good guys? The 'you' are the followers of Christ. The 'you' is the ones who Jesus tells to flee from the great tribulation and hide in the mountains. These would be believers or Christians.

Now look who sees the son of man coming on the clouds!!!!!!!!! It is not the 'you' of this story, it is THEY. Luke makes it very clear who sees Him coming.

26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken

Guess what the very next statement is that Luke records of the conversation of Jesus?
27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
A direct reference back to the men fainting. Remember that the friends of Jesus have left the building. They flee Judea when they see the abomination in the Holy Place.

So something must tell people on this forum that Christians are in danger of the great tribulation. If not there would hardly be any reason to fuss over when this 'rapture ' would be.

So considering the verses I quoted, what verses say Christians are killed in the great tribulation? Why are belivers scared of the great tribulation? I thought everyone was just concerned that that 'church' down the road would be wiped out, but 'our' church is right and we'll be alright.

Justme

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi

quote
Remember I showed you that every nation of Jews under Heaven were there in Jerusalem? Do you also remember from Acts that they all spoke in different tonques?(dilects,languages)
End Quote


No you have shown that you misunderstand scripture and take Paul statement that he has preached to every creation under heaven to be the Jews from Say Asia Minor who where in Jerusalem.

As I pointed out Paul was not born in Judea but in Asia Minor so he was a Jew of a different nation but he was still a Jew but he was also a Greek................and a Roman Citizen.

However that is not of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, but ONLY JEWS......................just one more thing your preterist doctrine has wrong.

Qiuote
The way it works is we we go thru this and determine just who it is that is wrong. Then the one who is wrong forgets it all anyway and goes back to flogging a false religious doctrine. At least that is how it usually works.
End Quote

Ohh Ok I see so you understand the doctrine you espouse is false but you continue anyway...................................how preterist..............How true Peter's words were

5: For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God

10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11: Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved,

Right we are right back in a big preterist circle with the fact that I started out with and the simple question you have yet to answer but have wasted pages of posts avoiding

When did the earth and all the works there of burn up...............................Since Peter directly ties it to the Great Tribulation .Judgement day and the First resurrection.

 

[Justme]

Hi Just the Facts,

No you have shown that you misunderstand scripture and take Paul statement that he has preached to every creation under heaven to be the Jews from Say Asia Minor who where in Jerusalem.

Here is the verse, what is to mis-understand?

5Now there were staying in Jerusalem Godfearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

One thing this does is show us that 'nation' just means groups or dilects or whatever, not nations as in many countries.

Hey, all I'm saying is what the verses say.
Luke said every nation of Jew was in Jerusalem, so nation could rise up against nation to fulfill prophecy. Paul said the gospel had been preached. If Paul lied so be it I guess. Actually as I said before I'm going with Paul.

Don't fret too much as I've said so many times, as we go thru scripture , it will start to weed out the errors.

As I pointed out Paul was not born in Judea but in Asia Minor so he was a Jew of a different nation but he was still a Jew but he was also a Greek................and a Roman Citizen.

Could be, I didn't know. However, his heritage doesn't change the inspired writing Paul done and Paul DID say the gospel was preached.........

However that is not of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, but ONLY JEWS......................just one more thing your preterist doctrine has wrong.

Forget the preterist part, we are just after biblical truth here. So who said that the preaching of the gospel in the oikenoume(?) involves some nation that was not of the creatures under Heaven?

Ohh Ok I see so you understand the doctrine you espouse is false but you continue anyway...................................how preterist..............How true Peter's words were

Sure let's go with that. Any old hypothesis in a storm, they say.

Right we are right back in a big preterist circle with the fact that I started out with and the simple question you have yet to answer but have wasted pages of posts avoiding

I wonder if we would have went in that circle if you would have answered actual questions and dealing with what was written instead of dodging on to something else all the time.

10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11: Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved,

You quoted the 2 Peter 3:10 verse then accused me of not dealing with it:

Right we are right back in a big preterist circle with the fact that I started out with and the simple question you have yet to answer but have wasted pages of posts avoiding

But I did deal with it herepage 2)
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Do those pesky preterists actually say that the earth and everything on the earth will burn,as in fire burn, in 70 AD? I wouldn't believe that either. Why would they say that, everybody knows there was no earth-wide fire in 70 AD? Are you sure preterists say that?
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AND HERE:
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This is interesing. As far as I know preterists do not talke this literally. However, I agree with you that it IS literal. I believe that the sky(atmosphere) does eventually disintigrate and thus the surface of the earth would be roasted by the suns rays.

Life on the planet would totally cease to exist in somewhere under 3 minutes. That brings up a number of questions for people on this forum.
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You finally ticked me right off with this whole mess and I wote this:
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Did I ask you anything about WHY, No I did not. Where do you even come up with this bit about why would it be in heaven stuff as you tie in 2 Peter 3:10. If you paid attention to what was being said to you maybe you would understand a bit better.
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And now you bring it up again with the insinuation it hasn't been dealt with. BUT it has.

However, just because I am such a fine gentleman I will deal with it yet again. AND maybe you will drop this line of artful dodging from your writing repretoire.

2 Peter 3:10, as I see it is a story of the final 3 minutes of earths existance. It is the day of the Lord, but I don't see it as the ONLY day of the Lord. I don't see it as being tied into the Great tribulation or the first resurrection of Revelation 20.

The really funny thing here is that when I did answer your question about 2 Peter 3:10 earlier, I asked you a few and you totally ignored them. That is kinda sickening after awhile you know, especially when you go around accusing me of what it is that you are doing.

Here is the questions I asked you and you didn't answer.
Why study the 'end of the world', eschatology , if it only covers 3 minutes of history.?

Is this not the 'end'? Well, it definatey is an end of Dogwash, Georgia! So why are some people standingonstreet corners hollering "Come Jesus"?

If this earth is going to get scorched and nobody knows when, what happens to all these folks who have had their spirits re-united with their bodies and have come up out of their earthly graves.? Does another rapture lift them up above that exploding atmosphere?

Maybe you could go ahead and deal with my questions now. Remember to discuss post #54.

Justme

 

[brother daniel]

It appears the scriptures are clear. "anti christ" is a powerful spiritual condition, that possess's christians who love money and what it buys, more than anything else, as it did JUDAS.

 

[Justme]

Hi Dan,

The word antichrist appears 4 times in the NIV and those verses say this:

1 John 2:18
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist–he denies the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

In 1 John 4:3 there, is it the 'spirit' of the antichrist that is coming or is it the antichrist himself that is coming?

Justme

 

[visionary]

antichrist... will have its completeness in one who will do the greatest imitation of Jesus Christ the world has ever seen.

 

[Justme]

Hi Visionary,

So I take it you are saying the antichrist is a man. So then is the antichrist the man of lawlessness of 2 Thess 2?

Justme

 

[Just The Facts]

HI

Quote
Here is the verse, what is to mis-understand?

5Now there were staying in Jerusalem Godfearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

One thing this does is show us that 'nation' just means groups or dilects or whatever, not nations as in many countries.

Hey, all I'm saying is what the verses say.
Luke said every nation of Jew was in Jerusalem, so nation could rise up against nation to fulfill prophecy. Paul said the gospel had been preached. If Paul lied so be it I guess. Actually as I said before I'm going with Paul.

Don't fret too much as I've said so many times, as we go thru scripture , it will start to weed out the errors.

End Quote

hahahahahahahha........jews = nation against Nation..........no you are just compiling error on error................where did I see that oh YA

Isa:28:13: But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

NO IT DOES NOT.............................Paul was a Jew From a Different Nation..............................BUT HE WAS STILL A JEW................................IF I have a Jew from Egypt he is Not an Egyptian he is a Jew.............................

THE REASON there was God Fearing Jews from Every Nation is it was Passover and they were there for Passover....................................They all went home after the week festival was over they were not still there 40 years later……………………EVEN THE HIGH PRIEST THAT ORDERED JESUS murdered……….was dead and Gone by the Time Rome sacked Jerusalem…………………………In fact over 60% of the people in Jerusalem in 70 AD HAD NOT EVEN BEEN BORN when Jesus walked the Earth

There was not People from every Nation .....................every Tribe......................... every Tongue on Earth.................NOW even if you say tribe refers to Hebrew Tribes.....................The Only Tribe that was There was the House of Judah....................NONE OF THE OTHER TRIBES WERE THERE………..we know this is true as we have the words of the Jews themselves that the other tribes were not there.


Quote
I wonder if we would have went in that circle if you would have answered actual questions and dealing with what was written instead of dodging on to something else all the time.
End Quote

No We have gone in a circle because YOU HAVE REFUSED TO ANSWER THE QUESTION............sooooo to avoid another circle i will not post anything but this question until you answer it.

No you did not answer you said the Preterist...not YOU................

Now you are saying it is your position...............FINE

So since YOU SAY it is some three minutes in the Future….THEN SO IS THE GREAT TRIBULATION ..Peter makes it clear it is at the same time as the Lords Second coming in the cloud ie: parousia

Thank you, you have shown everyone just how wrong you are. about sooo many things.............................and now you have clearly and finally admitted that the great tribulation is a future event.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Daniel


Anti Christ is a spirit the spirit of anti Christ.............it is not Azazel king of the Pit....................he is a Fallen Angel that will be released and he will appear as Jesus or try to appear as Jesus and deceive Christianity.

Anti Christ is someone who denies Jesus came in the flesh.......................the AC says he is Jesus not that Jesus never came...................The AC is not what his real title is that is just what Hal Lindsay made popular...................he is the Man of Sin.

 

[brother daniel]

Dear JUST THE FACTS,
Here is all the Holy Spirit says about "THE ANTICHRIST>
1. 1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

2. 1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

3. 1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4. 2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

brother daniel's response
And this is the Spirit of the political state Israel today, in its leaders and general population. The anti Christ is a SPIRIT that denys Jesus is the Christ.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Daniel


Notice this verse

19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Here John clearly states that the Anti Christ is Christian......well he states ALL ANTI CHRISTS are Christian.................they were with Christianity.............................but they then said that God did not come in the Flesh..........ie Jesus is not God just a Man.............

He then goes on about how to test a spirit ....................why should we test the spirit that talks to us ....................to be sure it is the Spirit of God.

John is not referring to A MAN when he says Anti Christ he is referring to the Belief that God did not come in the Flesh...................

The Spirit of Anti Christ is to think Jesus was not God but just a Man...........this was the Gnostic Doctrine...........it had already started in 70 AD.

It is what the Muslims say..................it is what everyone but Orthodox Christians say........................They all say Jesus was a great man but just a man...................................So they are all already Anti Christs by Definition.

The Man of Sin does not come with the Spirit of Anti Christ………………………………………………..he comes saying he is Christ.

4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

THE DEVIL is out to deceive THE ONLY PEOPLE ON THE PLANET THAT ACTUALLY HAVE SALVATION ........ie Christians.................................

He wants to have the Christian world declare him as God and to be his army to battle Jesus when he shows up with the armies of Heaven.

 

[Justme]

Hi Just the Facts,

I know there isn't a snowballs chance in Hell of you answering this, but I'll ask it anyway.

WHAT WOULD PAUL BE SAYING IN THIS VERSE?


5Now there were staying in Jerusalem Godfearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

Now you are saying it is your position...............FINE

What a breakthru, I only said that x posts ago!!!!!!!

So since YOU SAY it is some three minutes in the Future….THEN SO IS THE GREAT TRIBULATION ..Peter makes it clear it is at the same time as the Lords Second coming in the cloud ie: parousia

Show the nice people reading this where I ever said 2 Peter 3:10 was going to be three minutes in the future.

BUT this is a breakthru.........you have actually said that the great tribulation is at the same time as the parousia, even tho you are talking about Peter. How about Jesus Christ Himself..........He mentioned it a couple of times.

Just to be technically correct the phrase second coming is never used in the Holy Bible.

So now that we have determined that the great tribulation is at the same time as the parousia or the coming of the son of man on the clouds.....go back and answer the question in post 54.

Thank you, you have shown everyone just how wrong you are. about sooo many things.............................and now you have clearly and finally admitted that the great tribulation is a future event.

Therein, may lie the reason for your dismal understanding of scripture.

Anyway, how about those questions I asked you in post #54? ANd tell me what Acts 2:5 might mean. Oh, and forgret about the passover story, Jesus told me about the Holy Spirit bit where everybody started talking in their origonal language such as :
8Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism Cretans and Arabs–we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”

Justme

 

[brother daniel]

Hi Daniel


Notice this verse

19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Here John clearly states that the Anti Christ is Christian......well he states ALL ANTI CHRISTS are Christian.................they were with Christianity.............................but they then said that God did not come in the Flesh..........ie Jesus is not God just a Man.............

He then goes on about how to test a spirit ....................why should we test the spirit that talks to us ....................to be sure it is the Spirit of God.

John is not referring to A MAN when he says Anti Christ he is referring to the Belief that God did not come in the Flesh...................

The Spirit of Anti Christ is to think Jesus was not God but just a Man...........this was the Gnostic Doctrine...........it had already started in 70 AD.

It is what the Muslims say..................it is what everyone but Orthodox Christians say........................They all say Jesus was a great man but just a man...................................So they are all already Anti Christs by Definition.

The Man of Sin does not come with the Spirit of Anti Christ………………………………………………..he comes saying he is Christ.

4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

THE DEVIL is out to deceive THE ONLY PEOPLE ON THE PLANET THAT ACTUALLY HAVE SALVATION ........ie Christians.................................

He wants to have the Christian world declare him as God and to be his army to battle Jesus when he shows up with the armies of Heaven.

Yes AMEN, we are on the same page, just differant focus, though I am convinced that "THE MAN OF SIN" will first present himself as a christian, then after 3 and 1/2 years claim he is the MISSIAH of ISRAEL and GOD in the flesh.
I Love you Just The Facts, and I like this study.
Praise the Lord Jesus and OUR FATHER.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hi Just

WOW ............................you are amazing and I think I am finnished with this silly game.


Quote
Show the nice people reading this where I ever said 2 Peter 3:10 was going to be three minutes in the future.
End Quote

Not a problem you said it on page 3 post # 23

here it is


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Quote: JTF


Peter clearly says the earth and all the works there in. Since the inference is clearly that it is literal it would be those who say it is not that must show it is figurative. In addition rev states every island and every mountain a great hail fell.

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This is interesing. As far as I know preterists do not talke this literally. However, I agree with you that it IS literal. I believe that the sky(atmosphere) does eventually disintigrate and thus the surface of the earth would be roasted by the suns rays.


Life on the planet would totally cease to exist in somewhere under 3 minutes. That brings up a number of questions for people on this forum.

Why study the 'end of the world', eschatology , if it only covers 3 minutes of history.?

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You deny what you said just a few pages back it is always the same circle around a circle………………………..and to be blunt I have had enough of your silly games…………because I believe that is all it is to you…………………… I do not think you are here to learn at all just push your preterist views.

And Yes I have always said parousia is at the Great Tribulation …….and What peter said Jesus also tells us that at this time there will be signs and then peter tells this will happen

10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

In this verse we have the Tie in to the Great tribulation………………..the thief in the Night

21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be……………………………………43: But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.44: Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

As we can See The Great Tribulation……………………….the thief and night……………..and the earth and all the works burned up ARE THE SAME TIME.


But it is pointless because now you will just take me on another 8 page circle around a circle and then deny your very own words.

So that is it for Me I think everyone can see what has gone on here and who has the false doctrine.

A doctrine that boldly asks ………..Where is the promise of his coming” and say prophecy is of no value why waste your time.

 

[brother daniel]

Fellow students of Jesus Christ, have we got it worked out yet?
What I conclude from this thead is that "antichrist" is a Spirit in anyonyone who denys Jesus is the Christ, meaning Messiah. Antichrist is not a person.
The MAN OF SIN is possesed by the SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST and CLAIMS he is Jesus and god.

 

[Justme]

Hi Just the Facts,

No, it isn't any of that JTF. You can't answer the questions because of the reason I wrote into the posts. Scripture will weed out the errors. Your interpretation won't stand up under biblical scrutiny, Just like every other conversation you and I have had you have to cut and run because you can't justify your biblical interpretation. You can not allow yourself to be taken to certain scripture because deep inside you know it will expose the errors of the doctrine.

You never once even attempted to deal with the end time question of post 54. Instead you cling to good old 2 Peter 3:10 because that just might be confusing enough that some people can't follow it. You have to make a mountain out of any mole hill you can dream up and make some kind of a graceful escape while the getting is good. You have my sympathy, but you haven't exhausted my patience, I'm going to stay at this.

Here is your thief in the night.

Matthew 24
44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

...like a thief in the night...........nobody knows when death will come to them , it comes like a thief in the night.

At the parousia the heaven and earth of the old covenant is destroyed by symbolic fire and it is at the day of the Lord which comes as a thief in the night, just as your death comes like a thief in the night. That is death to many people too, like a thief in the night. Many connect this to 2 Peter 3:10.

Science tells me this earth will someday ceas to exist and all life upon it will end. The loss of the atmosphere as the bible describes appears to be a possible way to destroy the entire palnet. The literal explosion of the atmosphere that exposes the earths surface to intense heat, comes unknown by anyone as well...like a thief in the night. That results in death for many people which will be their day of the Lord. NO MORE EARTH...no more people.

We can hope that the verse at 2 Peter 3:10 is strickly symbolic, or we can hope that the day of the Lord mentioned there is a few hundred years down the road. We can believe as I do that it is millions of years down the road. So my dear friend I never said the parousia was 3 minutes away, I never said the great tribulation was the total event of 2 Peter 3:10. We can hope that 2 Peter 3:10 refers to the parousia only and let it go at that. There are reasons that I don't.


Matthew 24 from post #54.

Matthew recorded the question that was asked of Jesus as:

"Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Matthew recorded this as one of the 'things' that would happen:

and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

And Matthew recorded Jesus as saying:

34"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

So the question involved the temple , the end and the coming.

The list of things included the coming of the son of man.

The 'end' was in there too.
SO.........
1) Was the end at the same time as the temple?
2) Is the end the same time as the coming?
3) Are they all at different times?
4)Is the end the same time as the coming?
5) Are they all at the same time?
6)Other?

(Well, not exactly at the same time, Jesus said all these things would happen in this generation.)

C'mon Just the Facts, this is the real issue we agreed to discuss...the end times

Justme.

 

[Justme]

Hi Daniel,

Let's take a good hard look at what you wrote.

Fellow students of Jesus Christ, have we got it worked out yet?

Opening statement .....

What I conclude from this thead is that "antichrist" is a Spirit in anyonyone who denys Jesus is the Christ, meaning Messiah.

So this person denies that Jesus is the Christ. But you're saying the person really isn't it is just this spirit he is dragging around that is the antichrist or what?

Antichrist is not a person.

Here are verses that say that the antichrist is a person/man.

1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist–he denies the Father and the Son.

Here it says "such a MAN.....is the antichrist. That comes out as man is the antichrist. It says that "the man who denies .........."

2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

If there is one vese in the entire bible that flatly says the antichrist is a man, a person ...that is what the antichrist is. We have two verses sayibng that he antichrist is a person.

What are you basing this "antichrist is a spirit stuff on?
The MAN OF SIN is possesed by the SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST and CLAIMS he is Jesus and god.

I am curious how you arrive at this conclusion, but even more curious about what you feel the spirit 'antichrist' fits into in other doctrine. Like do you consider the antichrist is the man of lawlessness that must be revealed?

Justme

 

[Hitch]

Its never boring, watching J lay out his traps...