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The AntiChrist.....a person??

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Bulldog, Dec 18, 2004.

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  1. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi Just the Facts,

    35: And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

    You realize that when Daniel said this, the destruction of the temple was a few hundred years away.

    Nowhere does it restrict it to Jewish wars and revolts, it just says wars and rumors of wars.
    However, when nation raises against nation things are getting close. Every nation under Heaven was present in Jerusalem at that time so there is no problem fitting the 'end' in there.

    Well, as I see it Peter and Paul were killed before the rebellion started at Jerusalem. As I said before, John died naturally at 96 AD or ? So those saints didn't die at exactly the time of the destruction of Jerusalem but they did die within the timeframe of that generation.

    Anyway I agree that the saints as we have named them didn't die at the exact time of the destruction of the temple.

    So while we are on this area let's deal with the end coming after the gospel is preached and what Paul says at Col 1"23.

    Justme
     
  2. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

    +66
    Non-Denom
    Hi Just me

    You are dodging

    Is Daniel 11: and those who are made white .....................the Saints

    If Not WHO IS MADE WHITE OTHER THEN THE SAINTS.that is those that follow Jesus.

    You know full well it is the saints it can not be anyone else...you just do not want to tie their death and Jerusalems destruction to a phjrase like .........but the end is still at an appointed time. When they are clearly connected.

    Quote
    Nowhere does it restrict it to Jewish wars and revolts, it just says wars and rumors of wars.e getting close. Every nation under Heaven was present in Jerusalem at that time so there is no problem fitting the 'end' in there.
    End Quote

    No Men of Every Nation were in jerusalem when Jesus was there .it was the Romans and the jews NO OTHER NATIONS......the Nations against Nations is the Frontier Wars with the Barbarians and the Persians.....which eventually led to the deadly head wound.
     
  3. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi Just the Facts,

    No, that wouldn't be it. I have told you a couple times who and what I think goes on but in the interest of having the discussion progress I have agreed to just go along with your interpretation of who the saints are.

    The ones who had their robes washed came out of the great tribulation. That is not an arguable point. The bible states that fact:

    Rev 7
    13Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes–who are they, and where did they come from?” 14I answered, “Sir, you know.”

    And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    I can live with it being the apostles and the martyrs who are in Rev 7:14. In theory I would think it includes others, but I'm fine with that. The apostles were not killed at the exact same time as the temple was destroyed but it doesn't make the scripture unbearable to fit in. In fact there is no problem at all. Daniel 11 is no problem either.

    31 "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

    This chapter is talking about the destruction of the temple as well.

    I don't know 'full well' that it is the apostles and martyrs. I'm willing to work with just those, but I don't know that for a biblical fact.

    Actually I would like to tie the death of these saints, whoever they are, with the destruction of the temple. Then we have a clear cut distinction. I say the bible talks about the 'end' being in the first century and you say it is ...when? Besides you are using the logic of your preconceived mindset to fill out your argument somehow. Think carefully, what you are saying fits in perfectly with a first century 'end' situation.

    I pointed this verse out before, but here it is again:
    Acts 2
    5Now there were staying in Jerusalem Godfearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

    The 'nations' here are not countries they ar tribes or groups and every last one of them were in Jerusalem at that time.

    .

    I don't know what war you are talking about here, but during the rebellion of Judea in the late 60's AD, father fought against son, son against father, brother killed brother, plus the seige coming from the Roman armies that surrounded Jerusalem. That fighting was coupled with extreme famine at that time to where mother's apparently ate their own babies.

    You will have to explain what you mean here.

    So while we are on this area let's deal with the end coming after the gospel is preached and what Paul says at Col 1"23.

    In the question asked of Jesus the apostle asked about the end, so it must be answered in the conversation somewhere. Where is it? Where is it in Marks gospel? Where is it in Luke's gospel?

    Justme
     
  4. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

    +66
    Non-Denom
    Hi justme

    Ok soooooo.that being true then Daniel 11 is clearly about the death of the saints at verse 34

    I think you understand the point I am making Daniel is clear the death of the Saints IS NOT THE TIME OF THE END.

    Lets look at the verses you have brought up

    31: And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

    That IS NOT the sacking of Judea in 70 AD………………it is Antiochus Epiphanies in 164BC

    You said the study of this is not your strong point ……….so I will ask if you understand the true nature of Daniel 11:…………………….this is the most amazing prophecy ever recorded…………….it spans over 2300 years of History with the Final verses yet to be fulfilled.

    In it a steady pattern of generations of time is covered in a single verse or Two…………for example It starts with Alexander in 330 BC and within 17 verses it moves over 300 years of history. The various players over the years are only refereed to as the King of the North and the King of the South even though we have moved through several kings. This fast pace and the continual time line is common THROUGH OUT the whole prophecy.

    So since we agree that the ones in white in verse 34 are the Saints and the Time leading up to the Destruction of Jerusalem ………………the events of verse 31 CAN NOT be after verse 34…………………..

    Verse 31 is Antiochus Epiphanies in 164 BC and if you follow the Prophecy from the start through the Historical record you will see I speak the Truth .

    After verse 34 Comes the Roman Caesars which had really just got going in Jesus time ……………….with Augustus the first real Caesar ………….well the first one that lived any length of time.

    Se what Daniel says next after the Saints

    36: And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

    This is the Roman Emperors claiming the Title of Supreme God of the people and demanding all worship him as God………………This is WHY PAUL WAS PUT TO DEATH……………………..Rome was a society of Laws ……….the Law was you said Caesar is Lord ……………………if you failed the Penalty was death………………Have you ever read the Fox book of Martyrs…………….that is why they all died they refused to say Caesar is Lord ………………..That is what Paul meant when he said all lips that profess Jesus is lord will be saved…………………………he didn’t mean if you put a big sign up on your lawn you are saved………PLEASE ………………….when you had to say Caesar is Lord .if you refused and loved not your life and said Jesus is lord………..then even though they killed you were guaranteed Eternal life.

    I digress…………………….. Lets look at The verse you quote on the Jews of every Nation.

    Acts 2
    5Now there were staying in Jerusalem Godfearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

    They are still just Jews they are not……………..this

    9: After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    23: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

    Now You are saying that this fulfilled Jesus words in Matt 24:

    Matt 24:14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

    I can not agree on that and there are so many reasons why……………………..First Paul is being flamboyant every creature…………..so I guess he spoke to every fish as well………………….Second Paul had no Idea what other tongues their were in the world……………are you a Mormon do you believe Jesus came over to America or something………….or did Paul just not record that journey………………

    I guess the American Indians were just not worth saving in God’s eyes so that the end came hundreds of years Before they heard the Gospel or at least had it put in front of them.

    I am sorry Justme but these verses prove nothing you are taking Paul out of Context we must look at the overall message of Paul

    1: This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2: For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3: Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,4: Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

    Here Paul clearly states that the Later times will be different then the Times they are in ……….in Rome……………………..How could it be more obvious that it is some distant time ……..that is the time of the End………………….Now Paul was killed in about 64AD so in less then seven years Jerusalem would have fallen………………….hardly qualifies as a Distant Last generation different from the generation that he was then in and part of.

    I was raised Amill Justme…………was an alter boy studied and wanted to be a priest……I know amill very well and I can tell you it is flawed and not the Truth.
     
  5. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi Just the Facts,

    I think I do and no the saints(apostles) weren't killed at the time of the destruction, they were killed two or three years before that. People were martyred many years before that, Christ being one of them.

    Well, if this is the mess with Epiphenies, then you have the apostles dying about 200 years before they were born. Otherwise, yes, I think some apostles were killed before the destruction.

    I have committed very little of the OT to memory. I prefer to deal with the NT as miuch as possible. I have read the old testament many times, but never memorized it or totally analysied it. The end times as discussed on this forum or at least 'signs' of the end have little interest to me because there is a complete lack of understanding what the 'end' even is.

    Whether Daniel is fulfilled or not depends on your interpretation. That is what we are working on, just this discussion of end times.

    Okay, let's keep that for future reference. You correct me if I have the wrong idea of what you are saying.

    You feel that there are nations(countries,states/big areas) invoved here not just the Romans and all the nations of Jews under Heaven as described in Acts 2. Various 'tongues' were there in Jerusalem as well.

    I will go with the literal here and say all the nations were present in Jerusalem at that time.

    As we go thru verses the bible itself will weed out the errrors.

    Concerning the most obvious verses used for end times argument, that of the gospel being preached and Col 1:23, you said this:
    Paul may have spoke to the fish, I don't know. Paul did say that the gospel had been preached.........
    Again I will go with the literal here and the literal DOES place the end at the time of Paul. That is exactly what the words in the verses say as you read themn off the page. I'll go with that.

    I won't worry about the Indians at this time I will just accept at face value what Jesus said in Matthew 24 and what Paul said in Col 1:23.

    Paul was killed in 64, eh. I thought it was 68 AD. Sorry, goofed up.

    You find it difficult that people would change a lot in 7 years? Jesus actually reamed out present generation people and stated that they would feel the wrath of God and that was earlier yet. All of Matthew Chapter 23.

    Tee Hee, I know what the truth is, but we can't discuss that here.

    Justme
     
  6. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

    +66
    Non-Denom
    Hi

    Yes I know you think preterism is the truth......................but peter warns us about that lie but you are free to follow the doctrines of men if you choose.

    Just because there were Jews of every nation does not mean that there were People of Every Tongue and tribe on Earth ........I love the way you preterists just skip right over the parts that show just how wrong you are.

    Question………Was Paul born in Judea or was he a Jew from another nation.


    Quote
    Again I will go with the literal here and the literal DOES place the end at the time of Paul.
    End Quote


    WOW going literal why not literal with the 1,000 years……………………………………… ohhhh right that all happens in Heaven.

    You are still to make a single point the verses you posted do not show what you claim in fact they show the opposite.

    I have shown the Saints and there Death in Daniel and Jesus clearly states the end is not yet……………..

    Now let us look at the Great Tribulation

    Matt 24:21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    So now when was this it for sure was not 70 AD because the second Jewish revolt in 135 AD was far worse for the Jews………………So 70 AD was not even the worse thing to happen to the Jews let alone EVER.

    Every where we look in scripture it cries out against the Lie of Amill and the worst form of amill ……….preterism
     
  7. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi Just the facts,

    I don't see where there has to be representatives of every tribe on earth. What verses are you using to show the need for all of those to be there?

    I can't help you with preterist stuff, but if I, personally, am skipping something, let me know and I'll deal with it.

    Boy, I thought he was a gentile, but I have never looked it up.

    Yes, everybody that reads the bible has to choose which verses they will take literally and which are symbolic. You do the same thing.

    Yes, I have agreed that the saints as you describe them did not die at the time of the end.
    Where does it say it is the 'worst' event to happen.......Jesus only says it has never happened before and will never happen again. Nothing I ever read says it is the worst, the longest, the most deaths or anything like that. It hasn't happened before and won't again. The great tribulation is followed by the parousia, that is rather unique and hasn't happened before and never will again.

    Justme
     
  8. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

    +66
    Non-Denom
    Hi

    Quote

    Where does it say it is the 'worst' event to happen......
    End Quote


    Please.....................

    [21] For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

    [22] And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

    It is the worst thing to happen to Eartyh since the beginning and NO NEVER WILL THERE BE AGAIN.........................

    Now since we both know that Judea in 70 AD was not the greatest Tribulation and it did not come close to killing every Human on Earth.


    Quote
    Yes, everybody that reads the bible has to choose which verses they will take literally and which are symbolic. You do the same thing.
    End Quote

    AHHHHHH......No I do not take anything as a symbol unless I am told to do so as in prophecy etc...I do not just pick and choose what is symbolic and what is not GOD DOES...........That is the difference.
     
  9. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +6,164
    Messianic
    Maybe you need to look at it from the understanding of the "appointed time" or time appointed"

    Psalm 81:3
    Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day

    Jeremiah 8:7
    Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.

    Daniel 8:19
    And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

    Daniel 11:35
    And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

    Habakkuk 2:3
    For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.

    Galatians 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

    In order to receive an inheritance, you must be taken back into the God’s fold, if you do not meet with the Lord at His appointed time, how can you receive the blessing?

    Leviticus 16:29-31 And this shall be an eternal law for you. Each year on the tenth day of the seventh month you must fast and do no work. This is true of the native born and of the proselyte who comes to join you. This is because on this day you shall have all your sins atoned, so that you will be cleansed. Before God you will be cleansed of your sins. It is a Sabbath of Sabbaths to you, and a day upon which you must fast. This is a law for all time."

    The sins are atoned for only on the Day of Atonement. Atoned as in purged, gone off the record books of the Book of Life. We know that in Hebrew the work that Jesus is doing in the heaven has been towards the final atonement work. We know that in Revelation is the effects of the atonement of Jesus in the heaven at work and we will see its effect upon the world

    The link between Dan chapter 7 and Rev 4-11:

    Dan 7:9,10 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

    Rev 4:2,3 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and [one] sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and [there was] a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. (i.e. the Ancient of Days?) 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices:

    Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands.

    God has prepared a way, to take sin, the stumbling block that separates you from Him out of the way.

    Isaiah 57:14 And shall say, Cast ye up, cast ye up, prepare the way, take up the stumblingblock out of the way of my people.

    He knew that this would happen when we wander to far away from Him. He laid out a plan, that would bring us back to Him in the only way that it can be done.

    1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

    The Temple services in the outer court are the first introductions that a sinner has to how God is going to reconcile man with Himself. Since sin can not exist in the presence of God and without God we would cease to exist. There has to be a way made for God to save the sinner. There was a way provided that sin can be separated from the sinner. It involved sacrifice. Out of love, Jesus volunteered before we were even created, before the foundation of the world..

    Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    Come close to God and see that He is good. Come closer to God and see that He is your only hope of salvation. Come closer to God and find the emptiness in your heart can only be filled with God. God is what is missing in your life. Without God, you become critical, cruel and bitter. You see everything in a harsh manner. You may not even realize how horrible you are or are becoming.

    1 Corinthians 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

    Daniel 8:17 For at the time of the end shall be the vision. 19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. 23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, 26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.'

    When is the time appointed? At the time of the end, in the last end of the indignation, when transgressors are come to the full. Transgressors at the end of time will be without restraint, they will be in full control of the world but out of control mentally, it is at the end of indignation, at the end of time, at the appointed time. Gabriel told Daniel to shut up the vision; meaning seal it up as it was not to occur in his lifetime or as stated for many days in verse 26. It will occur before the Saviour returns to earth. Which means it can start up at any time here in the near future.

    Now knowing the judgement of the Lord has an appointed time, called the Day of Atonement, it is important to learn more about this appointed time and what to expect. I want you to understand that when the Lord comes to His temple it will be fast, suddenly. For those that are prepared for it , this will be a time of great rejoicing, for those who are unprepared it will be the judgement that they so feared.

    2 Chronicles 29:36 And Hezekiah rejoiced, and all the people, that God had prepared the people: for the thing was done suddenly.

    It is important for believers to be ready at the appointed time for the experience with God, that is so necessary for us to prepare to live with God forever.

    Jeremiah 49 :9 Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the swelling of Jordan against the habitation of the strong: but I will suddenly make him run away from her: and who is a chosen man, that I may appoint over her? for who is like me? and who will appoint me the time? and who is that shepherd that will stand before me?

    God shines His light upon those Words that we need for our time. May God open up our minds to the original truth from the beginning. It has been known as the old truth from the old testament, but it will always be the eternal truth found in Jesus in the light of the Holy Spirit that we are walk in.

    1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

    Everything has a time and place in prophecy and in its fulfillment, and we are to know not only where we are but what we are to be doing in this time so that we show not only God that we listened to His voice but also tell the world that it takes faith to walk the walk with God.

    Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
     
  10. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi Just the Facts,

    Okay, have it your way. We will just classify this evnt as we have some others. I say the great tribulation described in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 was the rebellion of the late 60's in Judea and involved the destruction of the Herod temple.
    You say it is not that event. Again, as we go thru the bible it will weed out the errors.

    So you don't see the generation referred to in Luke 21:32 as being anything other than THIS generation?
    You read Col 1:23 exactly as written? You accept as literal Hebrews 9:26? You read the resurrections of Rev 2o as written? You don't try to fudge the meaning of verses such as Matthew 16, Matthew 10:23. You don't ignore the biblical record of Luke 21:7 or Mark 13:4?

    Don't worry about it, the truth comes out as we go thru the verses. Whichever one of us is blowing smoke WILL be exposed, it is just a matter of time. One of us will come up against the ultimate conflict of our very own words contradicting each other and the bible. It never fails unless one of us backs out and runs and hides..........or the thread gets shut down.

    So how about Hebrews 9 now?
    6Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

    Now remember you have said that the 'end' couldn't be when those 'saints' died. The apostles died in the first century. Yet the writer of Hebrews tells us that the end of the ages is at the time of Jesus sacrifice. Now also remember you told us you don't pick and choose what is symbolic or whatever it was.

    Justme
     
  11. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    +6,164
    Messianic
    The most important aspects of Jesus’s ministry in heaven is found in the fall feasts. Because of their prophetic nature, as seen in the spring time feasts fulfillment in Jesus’s first coming, we will need to understand the fall feasts in the same light. We will start with the Spring time feasts and then continue with the fall feasts.

    Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    Prophetic time and its various calculations has been used to understanding Bible prophecies, but there are problems. The Bible is full of prophecies concerning things that are supposed to happen at future times, but only rarely do those prophecies include dates or time periods which would allow the reader to know exactly when the fulfillment time has actually arrived. This is where the importance of being under the influence of the Holy Spirit indwelling, guiding you through the Word of God, turns you into another person, one whose mind can understand the mind of God and sees things the way that the Lord sees things.

    1 Samuel 10:6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

    Many a believer gets frustrated with the task of trying to connect ambiguous prophetic statements with the proper historic events only to find a weakness in the theory later. Since a given prophecy is itself often subjected to various interpretations, there is typically a lot controversy about which, if any, historic events, organizations, religious groups, political parties, governments are the correct ones relating to the prophecy. The problem is compounded when attempts are made to explain ancient Bible prophecies in terms of new future fulfillments. Do the terms that the prophets use, change with the times to mean something different that what was the prophet understood at the time, they wrote it down? Jesus understood this difficulty when He spoke about the prophecy of Esaias:

    Matthew 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

    For those that are the fulfillment of the prophecy, they will not see that if they do not understand, see or perceive, then they will become the fulfillment and it will not be in a good way. Sometimes it is hard to imagine, and sometimes it is extremely easy to see prophecies given could really be relevant to our day, all depending on the depth of experience with the Lord and the gift of discernment he has given. Past attempts to make such connections have usually proven to be false as popular religious fevers over new light have caused disillusionment. It ends up adding to even greater skepticism by the old guard in the faith regarding any future attempts. Problems like these have caused many people to hold the study of prophecies in an attitude of “it is not meant to be understood” or “it is beyond me” type of despair or disgust, yet the Paul said,

    I Thessalonians 5:20 Do not despise prophecies.

    So here we are and must be. We go back to the Bible for answers.

    1 CORINTHIANS 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory 8: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

    In other words, if it was something that could be seen without the Holy Spirit, the princes of the world would have destroyed this information in any manner possible especially in the Word of God as found in various translations of Holy Scriptures. It is only revealed to his holy apostles and prophets, the true believers, by the workings of the Holy Spirit, and therefore there remains a blindness upon the unbelievers for our salvation.

    Deuteronomy 28:27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed. 28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: 29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee.

    God has, from the beginning, moved forward with His plan and each step must be gone over by us in prayerful study so that we may understand God’s Will. In these last days of earth’s history, it will be revealed in its fulness and glory.

    EPHESIANS 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will.

    God worked out His plan with Jesus Christ who is the manifestation and the fulfillment of all His plans. It is for the salvation of the human race. Jesus will finish this work according to the Will of God which is known as our true predestination.

    EPHESIANS 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10: That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will, things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him.

    God has had a plan, from the beginning which is the fulness of Jesus Christ’s ministry, that He has worked out and it is now in its final phase.

    Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    The final phase is to have a people who are conformed to the image of His Son.

    ROMANS 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29: For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    The mystery of God has been made up of all the individual mysteries found in God’s Word. When our hearts are being knitted together in truth that is found in the Word of God under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we will have the mystery of God revealed in its fulness and glory.

    Colossians 2:2,3 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

    God’s last call is known as a Holy Calling.

    2 TIMOTHY 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.

    Good works not ordained of God are like filthy rags. Only God-ordained works contribute to His purposes. All that God will do is move His purpose closer to completion. It is Holy and Perfect lasting for eternity. What does it take for us to fully understand that God wants to adopt us as His Own, and we are to be like His only Begotten Son.

    LUKE 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

    1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    God's people have forgotten that God and His Word are found in the entire Bible. We need to "feast upon" the roots and branches of God's Word as they are found in the old testament and find the harmony that is in the new testament. Because of our lack of feasting upon all the available spiritual knowledge contained in His Word, people think that there is nothing more that what they have already heard and known but it is not so and God is soon change all that so that we wake up,

    Hosea 2:8, 11 For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal. 11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

    This “her” is the whore and harlot’s changing the truth and the way that God wants His people to see and understand His Word and many have accepted it while the Lord turns up His nose. God warns,

    Malachi 2:2-3 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto My name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it,

    Unless we take heed, we too, will be cursed. So think not that ignorance is bliss or you will be forgiven for not advancing in spiritual knowledge and can get away with having our own type of feasts and think it will be ok with God.
     
  12. brother daniel

    brother daniel Well-Known Member

    +66
    Pentecostal
    Married
    I am so far persuaded that the IMAGE of the 666 BEAST that is healed, meaning, the state of political Isreal will have have a messianic person who has forsaken Jesus Christ to speak for it and inforce its LAW with armies. This person is described in EZEKIEL 21:25: "Thou profane wicked Prince of Israel, when iniquity shall end."
    This person will be a false prophet and anti-Christ.
     
  13. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi Visionary,

    Wow, this is a long way around we're going and for what I'm not sure. It is interesting tho and I want to go thru some of it. Some of your post refers to specific jargon and belief of a specific group and I have no idea what you are even talking about, but I would like to deal with some of your posts. That is as long as the OP doesn't mind us using his thread for this major offshoot. Just the facts and I digressed on a specific point which I want to use later to tie into the antichrist is a man topic....if I can remember long enough.

    ANYway.........
    Visionary listed six verses that indicated the appointed time of the 'end'.

    Then Visionary wrote this:

    I'll confuse this issue by saying that the appointed time discussed in those six verses is not the time you will receive your inheritance, but to receive your inheritance you must be ready to meet God at the proper time, yes. That does make sense, but that is all that can be said about that here. No further clarification.
    Jesus will forgive sins any day of the week as far as I see it. We'll find out soon enough, I guess.

    Yes, He did, on the cross 2000 years ago.

    Yes, back to the cross again.

    There you go.
    Uh, uh, it is the 'time of the end', there is a big big difference.

    You have made some assumptions here without the necessary bilical backing.

    There is a time when you and I will be judged. I don't know when that is, I know when you and I will be made aware of it.
    Hebrews 9
    27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,

    God was at His temple for awhile. Scripture says that there is no temple in the new Heaven and earth and nowhere does it say God is returning to any temple anywhere. Even considering that Jesus called His very own body a temple once.

    Here we are back to agreeing again.

    A lot of your post is individual doctrine and I deal only with the bible so in the nexrt post when you are talking about feasts and the like I have no comments.

    Justme
     
  14. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi Just the Facts,

    We went a round or two with your dying saints let's run with the Olivet for a minute.

    Matthew recorded the question that was asked of Jesus as:

    "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

    Matthew recorded this as one of the 'things' that would happen:

    and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

    And Matthew recorded Jesus as saying:

    34"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

    So the question involved the temple , the end and the coming.

    The list of things included the coming of the son of man.

    The 'end' was in there too.
    SO.........
    1) Was the end at the same time as the temple?
    2) Is the end the same time as the coming?
    3) Are they all at different times?
    4)Is the end the same time as the coming?
    5) Are they all at the same time?
    6)Other?

    (Well, not exactly at the same time, Jesus said all these things would happen in this generation.)

    Justme
     
  15. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

    +66
    Non-Denom
    Hi Justme

    You are looking at Matt 24: through skewed eyes.

    Matthew 24: is just like Daniel 11:.....................that is it is a prophecy that covers thousands of years and each verse only touches on a key point of a century or time frame.

    This is very common in prophecy...................................

    While Nero did indeed persecute Christians starting in 64 AD................it was not a general persecution they were just the scapegoats...................................

    Christianity was just considered a splitter cult off of the jews....................when the Jewish Revolt broke out Christians through out the Empire suffered greatly as being attached to the Jews by Default.

    It is during this era we see the Church start to drift away from Jewish Tradition and start to adopt Pagan Holidays as its own with renamed characters and events.

    Ie Christmas = Birth day of Sun God..................................Easter is The Pagan festival Ishtar Goddess of Birth and rebirth...................AKA Isis.........................Hence the Bunnies and Eggs ............................Ishtar was said to have hatched from a giant egg in the Euphrates.....well that is condensed............and the bunny belongs to Isis......................here festival was The First full moon after the spring Equinox...................of Course all you do to get the date for Easter is throw it on the first Sunday after the first full moon after Equinox.

    I digress

    The Point here is that it is not ...........THAT generation that will see the end...............................it is the Generation that see the Great Tribulation.

    Now We are given a qualifier for this GREAT TRIBULATION.

    First Qualifier ............................IT MUST BE FROM this Christian Church............ie the World Follows this Church and get put into Great Tribulation.

    21: And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22: Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

    Second it must be this

    21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:

    Now there is just no way that the first Jewish Revolt was the above event...........................You can not just brush this away......................70 AD was NOTHING compared to what has happened since and what is still to come as Mankind continues to chase after its lover the God of Weapons and War...............the Beast from the Pit .........the very one who taught us this lie Azazel.....The Destroyer ....the king of The pit ...............is waiting to be released and when he does mankind will suffer greatly.............................but hey it is our lover how appropriate that God Releases him to us....................

    Kind of a You asked for it you got it.

    Justme There is just no way in all eternity you will convince me that the Jewish revolt of 64 Ad was the Great Tribulation ...........not only have the Jews seen worse a dozen times over since then................the world has seen far more divesting things.......................and when the plagues fall men are going to wish they had never been born.

    There are just toooooo many things Jesus and Peter and paul say must happen in the visible world as signs to us..............................these things did not happen in 70 ad and have yet to happen but they will.

    The Earth burned up and all the works there of...........................all the Armies of the Earth gathered in one place and destroyed by Jesus ..............................This is not just one verse taken out of context...................this is the centre piece of what is going on.

    Azazel Taught mankind weapons and War .he is Baal the God of War and Forces................................he is the Destroyer..........He is the Beast in the Pit......................He IS NOT the Devil.

    Enoch 8:1 And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony,

    Jesus is the Prince of Peace when he returns he will do this

    2: And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3: And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4: And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

    Can you not see that these are the exact opposite of each other.....................can you not see the Truth............

    In short Justme ...................you will never convince me that this is not the truth of scripture..........................

    there are things within this context and frame work I am still learning but this is the core truth of scripture

    It started in the Garden when Azazel corrupted mankind with this lie and all the hidden knowledge that mankind was not ready for................................and the battle between these principalities and Powers continues and .....................we mankind are Azazel's tool of rebellion.........................it is his intent to have mankind trained as good little soldier honouring a lie.......so that we will be his Army in the final battle to defeat God and put the Devil on his throne in Heaven.

    Here is the plan as it was at minimum over 6,000 years ago…………………..

    Enoch 7:3..............'I fear ye will not 4 indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations 5 not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves 6 by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn 7 and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.

    Isa:14:13: For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:14: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15: Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

    Azazel is the Son of the Devil........................he is the son of Perdition..................

    Here is what he has been training mankind for

    Rev 19:19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.


    That has been THEIR PLAN it is to prepare mankind to be his army to try and defeat Jesus when he returns.

    Please hear the Words of the Prince of Peace……….understand with your heart and turn and be healed.
     
  16. Bevlina

    Bevlina Guest

    +0
    A very, very interesting thread. :)
     
  17. brother daniel

    brother daniel Well-Known Member

    +66
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Just the facts has said:
    "Azazel is the Son of the Devil........................he is the son of Perdition..................
    Here is what he has been training mankind for."
    http://www.deliriumsrealm.com/delirium/mythology/azazel.asp
    Rev 19:19: And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

    That has been THEIR PLAN it is to prepare mankind to be his army to try and defeat Jesus when he returns.
    Please hear the Words of the Prince of Peace……….understand with your heart and turn and be healed.

    brother daniel:
    We are still on the same page.
    "Azazel is the Son of the Devil........................he is the son of Perdition".
    SATAN, the (nagash),serpant is the father of lie's and the son of perdition.
    So Judas was possesed by the spirit of the son of perdition, as will be the "anti-christ" image of the 666 BEAST, and the false prophet.

    I am so far persuaded that the IMAGE of the 666 BEAST that is healed, meaning, the state of political Isreal will have have a messianic person who has forsaken Jesus Christ to speak for it and inforce its LAW with armies. This person is described in EZEKIEL 21:25: "Thou profane wicked Prince of Israel, when iniquity shall end."
    This person will be a false prophet and anti-Christ.

    ISLAM is the scape goat for the Jerusalem led, harlot"christain" armies of the north.
    "THE ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLETE".

    Isaiah 1 1The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem
    2Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.
    4Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the
    Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
    9Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
    10Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

    These words could apply to Isreal,, "CHRISTIAN" England and the United States today.

    ***
    ***11To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I
    delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
    12When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
    13Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is
    iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

    *** 14Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
    16Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
    17Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
    18Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like
    crimson, they shall be as wool.
    19If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

    *** 221How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.
    23Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither
    doth the cause of the widow come unto them.

    **Nahum 3:3-5* Because of the multitude of the whoredoms of the wellfavoured harlot, the mistress of witchcrafts, that selleth nations through her
    whoredoms, and families through her witchcrafts
    .
    5Behold, I am against thee, saith the LORD of hosts; and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will shew the nations thy nakedness, and the
    kingdoms thy shame.

    Zephaniah 1:3-5****
    ***4I will also stretch out mine hand upon Judah, and upon all the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and I will cut off the remnant of Baal from this place, and the
    name of the Chemarims with the priests;
    5And them that worship the host of heaven upon the housetops; and them that worship and that swear by the LORD, and that swear by Malcham;

    **Malachi 2:10-12
    10Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our
    fathers?
    **11Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which
    he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god.
    12The LORD will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the
    LORD of hosts.
    We must pray for and bless our enemies in the flesh. Jesus is Lord.

    *
     
  18. Just The Facts

    Just The Facts Senior Veteran

    +66
    Non-Denom
    Hi Daniel


    Not quite the same page.............Azazel IS NOT the devil...............he is the Beast locked in the pit..................

    Satan just means adversary so Both the Devil and Azazel are Satans......but they are different beings. They go to the lake of fire 1,000 years apart.

    You believe that Azazel will enter a man ..............I do not believe that is the case......................He will appear as an Angel of light he will walk on Earth as his boasted ego of himself that he is............

    gen 6:1: And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2: That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    Jesus is clear in Matthew ........As it was in the days of Noah so will be in the last days when the pit is open

    37: But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    38: For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
    39: And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    Well who is the they Jesus is talking about .well it is this they the ones doing great wonders.

    Azazel does not need a human to posses......Once released he will appear as what ever he chooses.........Angels can and often do appear in Human forum.
     
  19. Justme

    Justme Senior Veteran

    +44
    Christian
    Hi Just the Facts,

    Daniel is a prophecy that covers many years. First in 8 there it talks about Alexander the Great who doesn't come on the scene for 200 years after Daniel told about it, then his kingdom breaks into four and so on and so on. Besides Daniel spells out that this is a while down the road....at the time of the end.

    Matthew in quoting Jesus Christ said it will all happen in this generation. SO you are flat out wrong in that it is just like Daniel because in that regard it isn't.

    Besides that I mentioned it would be easier to just let the bible point out what generation Jesus is talking about. I think you may have missed that in my last post.


    There it is, properly recorded....... and I say it was that generation Jesus was talking to. Let's continue on and see where the scripture leads us.

    This is the most confusing thing I see on this forum. What is this about the Christians in the Great tribulation? Where does that come from? It is not followers of Jesus who are killed in the great tribulation, it is the people who reject Christ. The followers are told to flee Judea before this great tribulation even starts. There are no believers in the great tribulation in the first place.
    This is where you insist it must be the worst of something. Let's just let the scripture sort that out for us. Because it will, if it is given the chance.

    Well, we should be working on verses like that.


    That's kinda what I'm scared of as you indicate that followers of Jesus Christ will bear the brunt of God's wrath!!!!!!!!!!!!in the great tribulation.

    Enoch 7:3..............'I fear ye will not 4 indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations 5 not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves 6 by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn 7 and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.

    Isa:14:13: For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:14: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15: Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

    I only deal with the bible and I use the NT more than the old.
    Instead of trying to unravel Isaiah I would read a verse like:

    John 10
    28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand

    Who gets this wonderful treatment?

    John 6:40
    For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

    Now let's get back to the end times thing.

    I had a post about Matthew 24 there with some questions on how you see it.

    Justme
     
  20. brother daniel

    brother daniel Well-Known Member

    +66
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Dear, Just The Facts,
    We are on the same page and the Holy Spirit is teaching us. The only thing I believe is Jesus Christ, himself.
    We are both students and learning. OUR FATHER has used you to provoke me to do a study on Satan from the scriptures.
    "AZAZEL?" cannot be found in the Holy scriptures.

    It is SATAN who is the spirit of anti-christ, the BEAST and the false prophet.
    1. 1 Chronicles 21:1
    And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

    "Satan" is here used as a personal name, The name means adversary. The Holy Spirit in the NEW TESTAMENT uses both Satan and devil to
    discribe the same person

    Job 1:6
    Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
    3. Job 1:7
    And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from
    walking up and down in it.

    Job 2:1
    Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself
    before the LORD.
    Job 2:2
    And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from
    walking up and down in it.

    13. Psalm 109:6
    Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
    14. Zechariah 3:1
    And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
    15. Zechariah 3:2
    And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked
    out of the fire?

    Matthew 4:1
    Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
    Matthew 4:10
    Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
    We see here that Satan and the devil is the same person.
    18. Matthew 16:23
    But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those
    that be of men.

    So just The Facts we see here that SATAN has just spoken through PETER

    23. Mark 8:33
    But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that
    be of God, but the things that be of men.
    Luke 4:8
    And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou
    serve.
    Luke 10:18
    And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
    Mark 5:15
    And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were
    afraid.

    "POSSESED WITH THE DEVIL".

    Hebrews 2:14
    Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy
    him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    Revelation 2:10
    Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have
    tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

    Here is saints of God, "the church going through tribulation."


    Now concerning the 42 months I was asked about.
    I am persuaded that this is the time of GREAT TRIBULATION during which the two witness's prophesy

    ***REV: 11:11And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and
    shall overcome them, and kill them.
    8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead
    bodies to be put in graves.
    The term three and a half days is the second three and a half years of the GREAT TRIBULATION.
    10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets
    tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
    11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which
    saw them.
    12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld
    them.
    This is when I see the first resurection also called "the rapture"by some.
    Then comes the wrath of God.
    . Revelation 12:9
    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his
    angels were cast out with him.
    Revelation 12:12
    Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having
    great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    Revelation 20:2
    And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    Revelation 20:10
    And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and
    night for ever and ever.
    Praise the Lord, Jesus is Lord.
     
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