The American Revolution was a sin. And now we are punished by having Trump

fi11222

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That would be rebelling against the USA government. Two wrong never make a right
Look just above and you will see that I said we should obey the government (be it Caesar or Hillary Clinton). Just that being "patriotic" is incompatible with being Christian.

Besides, if you say "two wrongs do not make a right", does it mean you consider the American Revolution to have been "a wrong" ?
 
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fi11222

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Do you think slandering Trump and voting for Hillary will make us a Godly nation? OR that it will make the Church a godly Church?
I never said you should vote for Hillary. No one is forced to vote.

But being "patriotic" in the sense most Trump supporters are is turning us into zealots, i.e. into supporters of Barabbas, not of Jesus Christ.
 
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W2L

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Look just above and you will see that I said we should obey the government (be it Caesar or Hillary Clinton). Just that being "patriotic" is incompatible with being Christian.

Besides, if you say "two wrongs do not make a right", does it mean you consider the American Revolution to have been "a wrong" ?

Yes I believe it was wrong. How can I agree with fighting war against the brits when Paul told the Roman Christians to submit to a pagan Roman empire? Likewise, Israel had to submit to both Babylon and Rome.
 
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W2L

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I never said you should vote for Hillary. No one is forced to vote.

But being "patriotic" in the sense most Trump supporters are is turning us into zealots, i.e. into supporters of Barabbas, not of Jesus Christ.

Do you think Democrats are not doing the same thing? Obama was the savior of America when he ran. The Dems were quoting scripture to promote his socialist agenda. They were pretty patriotic too.
 
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fi11222

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Do you think Democrats are not doing the same thing? Obama was the savior of America when he ran. The Dems were quoting scripture to promote his socialist agenda. They were pretty patriotic too.
I am certainly not a Democrat neither do I support them in any way. But we can no longer go on pratling about the supposed sanctity of the American Constitution while claiming to be Christians. Being "patriotic" is now equivalent to serving another master.

If all this means we will have to endure Hillary, so be it. We are living in a fallen world anyway.
 
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W2L

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I am certainly not a Democrat neither do I support them in any way. But we can no longer go on pratling about the supposed sanctity of the American Constitution while claiming to be Christians. Being "patriotic" is now equivalent to serving another master.

If all this means we will have to endure Hillary, so be it. We are living in a fallen world anyway.

Voting for Hillary will not change anything. It will only make democrat Christians more bold in there own patriotism. Its just one side of the same coin.
 
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fi11222

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Voting for Hillary will not change anything.
I never said we should vote for Hillary.

It will only make democrat Christians more bold in there own patriotism. Its just one side of the same coin.
Sure. So what? If other people sin does that mean we should sin too ?
 
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4x4toy

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I am certainly not a Democrat neither do I support them in any way. But we can no longer go on pratling about the supposed sanctity of the American Constitution while claiming to be Christians. Being "patriotic" is now equivalent to serving another master.

If all this means we will have to endure Hillary, so be it. We are living in a fallen world anyway.

I'm proud of our founders and our Constitution . What part of our Constitution prevents us from living as Born again Christians ? God bless Israel ..
 
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W2L

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I'm proud of our founders and our Constitution . What part of our Constitution prevents us from living as Born again Christians ? God bless Israel ..

They stole land from the Natives. They stained the gospel with their sin. Shame on them.
 
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W2L

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Born again means to be born of incorruptible seed. This means that we are no longer citizens of earth but heaven. I'm so disappointed at the Church for not teaching this.

Philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
 
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W2L

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Did Israel steal their land ?

With respect, that's carnal thinking. WE must get away from that and move towards spiritual thinking. The kingdom is not a carnal nation but a spiritual one.

Philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
 
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4x4toy

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With respect, that's carnal thinking. WE must get away from that and move towards spiritual thinking. The kingdom is not a carnal nation but a spiritual one.

Philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,


But yet America was the main and strongest power on Earth when Israel became a nation in their own homeland again and America to this point has supported Israel consistently (blessed them if you will) .. I say two reasons God raised up America 1.. That so many prayers were finally heard and answered to escape persecution in Europe and 2.. To be the chosen nation with the clout to help re-birth Israel .. Yes Philippians 3:20 .. We are subject to the higher authority vs any conflict ..

Those who did evil in America just like every nation on Earth will be judged so what's your beef ?
 
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JacksBratt

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In the Bible it is said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" but "No taxation without representation" is nowhere to be found. And it is clearly stated that we have to submit to earthly authorities (Romans 13:1-6).

So, on what Biblical grounds can we justify the American Revolution? Try as you might, you will find none.

And this is not surprising because the so called "Founding Fathers" were not Christians. Some were "Deists" (which was a polite way to say "agnostic") and some were outright atheists, though most avoided saying so openly.

If we had stayed under the King of England, would things have been worse? Probably not. Look at Canada. Is it a bad country? Does everybody hates Canadians the way they hate Americans these days?

And now we have Trump. Trump the blasphemer. Trump the crass quasi-incestuous womanizer. Trump the so called "Christian" who never feels the need to repent.

America was conceived in sin and it has given birth to a monster. That is the justice of God calling us to repentance.
I believe that every country has some "sin" in it's past and present.

I live in Canada and would not know of any other country that I would move to if things got really bad here.

However, we have our issues with corruption in politics, government, police and military too.

I kinda chuckled when I read your post because the US is just the leader or big brother to Canada on a lot of issues.

I don't believe your forefathers are to blame here. The US constitution is, probably, the only thing holding your country back from a faster fall into a godless mess. That peice of paper is the wall that you politicians cannot knock down. No matter how much they would like to, that document saves you from your arrogant political leaders.

As for Trump..... He is a worry, however, what are you going to do? You have a felon, Hillary, who scares me more than any legitimate political candidate as of yet. Face it, Trump is not a politician, Hillary is a puppet of the system and placed there to do as she is told.

Lord help the USA, I have no words to describe my concern for your country. You are bankrupt, financially but it just hasn't become apparent. The US will not recover from it's debt. Your leaders have an agenda, like all people in power do, and it's not "for the people".

It was not the revolution that was the sin that is doing you in. It's simple, you are supposed to be a nation "under God". Your money says "In God we Trust" Yet you have taken God out of everything. The ACLU is militant against anything to do with God.

Your nation may have started as "one nation under God" but it is not moving but rushing, toward "one Nation who rejects God". A nation which opposes God.

Canada is not much better. We, in Ontario, have a majority Liberal government with a criminal, corrupt, egotistical leader who has a personal agenda and a chip on her shoulder, being a Lesbian, who plays the "homophobe" card to anyone who opposes her whacked ideas that are killing our Provence on many levels.

Our Federal government is also a majority Liberal governing party. Our Prime minister is a boy who is in love with himself and has no experience. He runs around, shirtless, taking "selfies" with all these people and leaning heavily on the legacy of his fathers past as an icon Prime Minister.

We are taxed to death. We pay more than 50% of our earned dollars, in one way or another, into the governments pocket as one type of tax or another. If I was to pay all my tax dollars to the governments, Provincial or Federal, up front, I would give them all my wages from January 1st to June 7th. The US was April 27.

It's not just the US that is in trouble. It is the entire world that is in disarray.

The end is near. The one world government is coming, Come Lord Jesus....

Maranatha.
 
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JacksBratt

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They stole land from the Natives. They stained the gospel with their sin. Shame on them.
Yes, Spain, England, France and other countries, stole the land from the aboriginals of this continent. However, if they didn't, do you think that those first nations would still be here today? If it wasn't England, Spain or France, it would have been someone else. That's just the way it goes.

How many different nations controlled other parts of the world? Look at Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great. The one with the most power took what they wanted. It's been that way since the beginning of the history of mankind.

I don't agree with the way it was done but I don't think that there has ever been a "correct" way to overtake a weaker people and nowhere in history has one people left another people alone because it was "polite", "ethical", "Christian" whatever.

The aboriginals of this continent were a great people. I admired their ability to live off the land survive the harshness of the climate and raw nature here. It was a great and interesting culture. However, this is the way of all hunter gatherer tribes that lived in different areas of this earth. As time passes, they, unfortunately, become history.
 
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To those interested, here is a link to the earlier thread where this topic was also discussed.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/was-the-american-revolution-a-sin.7953871/

My two cents: God bears wrath up to 7 generations for those who hates Him, but even to 7 x 7 and more for those who truly Love God.

Were not the Pilgrim Fathers very devout? Was the US not historically a very devout place, like during the Awakenings? Are there not God-fearing devout Christians throughout the US today?

I doubt that God would curse the US as it seems He has allowed it to prosper thus far.

Trump and Clinton are the choice of the American people and they will have to live with either the rock or the hardplace (or Devil and Deep Blue Sea, who is the Devil of the two?). It is by choice that the US inflicts this blight on themselves.
 
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