The American Revolution was a sin. And now we are punished by having Trump

[Vicomte13]

No one here is denying it happened.
It just wasn't "witches" that were the subject or the object, but greed.
The so-called 'victors' and/or historians(I guess; whoever) re-wrote it in lies.

In every witch trial, the loser was Jesus Christ.

That is because no witch trial ever held in which a "witch" faced death upon conviction (whether convicted or not), or in which a "witch" faced torture beforehand, was ever anything other than the overt exercise of the power of Satan acting actively within the Church, to make the Church a monstrous agent of torture and murder.

Jesus never authorized Christians to kill ANYBODY over religion, or to execute any witches, let alone torture anybody. When the Church did it, and many Churches did, the Church very publicly, visibly, and proudly became an agent of murder and terror, and thereby stained Jesus Christ with the reputation for murder and terror and darkness and evil in the eyes of onlookers for all time.

To this day, people reject Jesus, wrongly, because they rightly reject the Churches that were agents of Satan, with their tortures, their trials and their public demonstration of comptemptible arrogance. The Churches that tried and executed witches demonstrated, for all time, WHY religion MUST be defanged, and why the Church MUST, ultimately be subject to civil power (not that civil power does not also commit evil), because in their fanatical self-righteousness, Christians become torturers and murderers. They can never, ever be permitted to have that sort of authority again.

Because, when they had authority, they had witch trials and burnt tens of thousands of people alive, the Christian Churches and the concept of Church power had to be broken and subordinated to government power, forever. People have to have the right to walk OUT of Church, leaving the Church powerless to do anything about it. People have to have the power to actually dabble in the tomfoolery of witchcraft itself, but the Church must never, ever again be given the power torture and burn people on account of it.

The Christian Church destroyed its moral authority, for all time, and diminished people's faith in Christ, for all time, BECAUSE OF the witch trials. It is an indelible stain on Christianity, and the proof that all claims of "infallibility" by the Christian Church are, in the final analysis, crap. With ultimate authority, the Church goes hard over for Satan. They did it. We know it. It's WHY Church can never be what it once was: the claws and fangs had to be pulled out BECAUSE when the Church had them, it was very evil.

The witch trials sullied the reputation of Christ before the world. It wasn't his fault, but because Churches have proven that they cannot be trusted with that kind of power, everafter they must be subject, on earth, to civil power, to keep them from going berserk again.

In the Muslim world, the mosque has not yet had the yoke of civil power placed upon it. Until that happens, Muslims today will continue to be as barbaric as Christianity once was. The Christians broke their Church power for good, by being so evil that they had to be reduced. That's the truth.

Doesn't mean that Jesus is God. DOES mean that the Church is not infallible. It already failed in front of the whole world. Joan of Arc was a saint sent from God. The Church tortured and burnt alive a messenger of God. THAT is how badly the Church can fail, and has, indelibly. Which is why the Church, and the clergy, however ardent, can never be completely trusted. Men fall to evil, and the clergy are particularly prone to it, perhaps because they deal with divine power, and that attracts demons.

There are reasons why the Church did as it did. There were reasons why Caiaphas did what he did too. Those reasons are ultimately unacceptable, and the Church had to be diminished because of the evil it did.

Respondeat superior: we all know that the boss is ultimately accountable. Which is why people the world over who Jesus and the Christian God accountable for the sins committed by Christians. And as long as that is a principle of our law, and of human law, that will always be true.

By burning witches, the Christians PERMANENTLY gave Jesus and his Father an aspect of evil in the eyes of the world. By refusing to admit their fallibility, that they failed, and that they did evil in the name of good, they stain Jesus and the Father deeper and deeper red with the sins.

Facing that, one must reject the Church of that time, and what the Church did, and side with the Father and the Son. That separates the sinners and the sin from God. Then if one goes back to the Church anyway, it is to a Church that one must chasten, and one must remind of its sins, so that when Christians in their Churches start to get high and mighty, the evils of their Churches are PROPERLY thrown right in their face as the REASON nobody completely believes them, and nobody should.

God is above it, and when the Churches acted ungodly, it must be pointed out every time that Christians foolishly assert that the Church can do no wrong. It has done PLENTY of wrong. If the Church DIDN'T do wrong, then CHRIST burnt those people and he's a demon.

That's not true. The people who burnt those people turned their back on Christ, and they may very well be facing the Lake of Fire themselves for murdering in his name.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You were the one who said "Some people believe that happened. Some people don't." The trials happened. They can't deny that without ignoring history.

Clarifying:
Some believe they were what they were told - salem witch trials, etc..
Some don't believe they were actually witches tried - but have found out the truth - (often or some of the time) >
women who were practicing midwifes were over a thousand times better than the males delivering babies (including so-called 'doctors' in what passed as 'hospitals' at the time, or clinics?)
and the males wanted the money / huge profit / from delivering babies even if the babies died 40 times more often (give or take some)
and the males did not like the prestige the midwifes got from all along being so good at what they did - delivering strong healthy babies ALIVE instead of dead.

i.e. just like when Jesus comes to town, the religious figures often jealous and envious instead of eager to learn.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Christian Church destroyed its moral authority

It had none.
It had already lost any authority 2000 years ago almost,
except in small groups gathered together here and there following Jesus.

 

[Vicomte13]

Do you really believe this? If that was the case, every country would just keep printing money. The more money you print the less value your dollar has. The US dollar is soon to lose it's position as the world currency. You cannot just keep printing money. Your debt is so large you cannot recover. Other countries will not accept your dollar as payment for debt to them as it will be worthless. Many countries, even now, are demanding gold as payment. The US and Canada, no longer have gold. Well, Canada has 700g of gold, that's it. As for the US, Fort Knox is empty.

As a technical matter, it is true. European countries cannot print money, because they are subject to the EU. But fully sovereign countries can ALWAYS print money to pay their debts.

Of course, the effect of doing that is, as you pointed out, inflation: the currency is reduced to worthlessness and many people won't take it. But that's not bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is the lack of money to pay the nominal debt. The inability to buy anything is a different problem, a problem of supply.

Bankruptcy is a technical term, and no sovereign state can go bankrupt if it chooses not to (provided that it denominates its debts in its own currency, which it can always create).

Certainly I am not advocating actually DOING that. I am making a point about bankruptcy, an important technical legal point: it is impossible for the US to be unable to pay its debts, because the US can always print money to pay its debts.

It IS possible that, by doing such a thing, people outside the US won't accept the US dollar anymore (within the US they don't have a choice).

The result then isn't BANKRUPTCY, it's the inability to buy goods and services at all. It becomes a procurement problem, derived from the hyperinflation of the currency.

 

[Vicomte13]

It had none.
It had already lost any authority 2000 years ago almost,
except in small groups gathered together here and there following Jesus.

I wonder why, then, Jesus kept performing miracles within these discredited churches?

The answer is that Jesus walks with sinners, and encourages them to do better, so Jesus sticks with the Churches that sullied him.

 

[PapaZoom]

And here I thought our punishment was to have to endure PeeWee Herman and Barney the Purple Dinosaur!

 

[joshua 1 9]

And this is not surprising because the so called "Founding Fathers" were not Christians.

This country was actually founded by the Pilgrims and they had the Pilgrim compact. Later on the so called: "Founding Fathers" came up with the constitution and the form of government that we have now. The gave us plenty of warnings.

 

[W2L]

But yet America was the main and strongest power on Earth when Israel became a nation in their own homeland again and America to this point has supported Israel consistently (blessed them if you will) .. I say two reasons God raised up America 1.. That so many prayers were finally heard and answered to escape persecution in Europe and 2.. To be the chosen nation with the clout to help re-birth Israel .. Yes Philippians 3:20 .. We are subject to the higher authority vs any conflict ..

Those who did evil in America just like every nation on Earth will be judged so what's your beef ?

My previous posts already sum up my belief.

 

[joshua 1 9]

encourages them to do better

He shows us the way to Go and how we should live our life.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I am certainly not a Democrat neither do I support them in any way. But we can no longer go on pratling about the supposed sanctity of the American Constitution while claiming to be Christians. Being "patriotic" is now equivalent to serving another master.

If all this means we will have to endure Hillary, so be it. We are living in a fallen world anyway.

Patriotism is not necessarily serviing another master. Just because I serve God first does not mean I can't serve others also; you have to know your priorities....

 

[W2L]

Yes, Spain, England, France and other countries, stole the land from the aboriginals of this continent. However, if they didn't, do you think that those first nations would still be here today? If it wasn't England, Spain or France, it would have been someone else. That's just the way it goes.

How many different nations controlled other parts of the world? Look at Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great. The one with the most power took what they wanted. It's been that way since the beginning of the history of mankind.

I don't agree with the way it was done but I don't think that there has ever been a "correct" way to overtake a weaker people and nowhere in history has one people left another people alone because it was "polite", "ethical", "Christian" whatever.

The aboriginals of this continent were a great people. I admired their ability to live off the land survive the harshness of the climate and raw nature here. It was a great and interesting culture. However, this is the way of all hunter gatherer tribes that lived in different areas of this earth. As time passes, they, unfortunately, become history.

Well, I'm not going to vote for Rome, or Babylon, just because they are there. Our citizenship is in heaven. The Church has lost its way and does not teach the kingdom anymore.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Yes, Spain, England, France and other countries, stole the land from the aboriginals of this continent. However, if they didn't, do you think that those first nations would still be here today? If it wasn't England, Spain or France, it would have been someone else. That's just the way it goes.

How many different nations controlled other parts of the world? Look at Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great. The one with the most power took what they wanted. It's been that way since the beginning of the history of mankind.

I don't agree with the way it was done but I don't think that there has ever been a "correct" way to overtake a weaker people and nowhere in history has one people left another people alone because it was "polite", "ethical", "Christian" whatever.

The aboriginals of this continent were a great people. I admired their ability to live off the land survive the harshness of the climate and raw nature here. It was a great and interesting culture. However, this is the way of all hunter gatherer tribes that lived in different areas of this earth. As time passes, they, unfortunately, become history.

Sort of like Neanderthals.......

 

[W2L]

Patriotism is not necessarily serviing another master. Just because I serve God first does not mean I can't serve others also; you have to know your priorities....

We as a Church don't serve God by being divided. Neither party serves God but rather serves only the world. They divide us, corrupt us, and teach us bad things such as covetousness, slander and all manner of flesh works.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

In the Bible it is said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" but "No taxation without representation" is nowhere to be found. And it is clearly stated that we have to submit to earthly authorities (Romans 13:1-6).

So, on what Biblical grounds can we justify the American Revolution? Try as you might, you will find none.

And this is not surprising because the so called "Founding Fathers" were not Christians. Some were "Deists" (which was a polite way to say "agnostic") and some were outright atheists, though most avoided saying so openly.

If we had stayed under the King of England, would things have been worse? Probably not. Look at Canada. Is it a bad country? Does everybody hates Canadians the way they hate Americans these days?

And now we have Trump. Trump the blasphemer. Trump the crass quasi-incestuous womanizer. Trump the so called "Christian" who never feels the need to repent.

America was conceived in sin and it has given birth to a monster. That is the justice of God calling us to repentance.

so what about slavery? Was it wrong to free slaves? Were those who ran the "underground railroad" heroes or villains? After all, slavery has biblical support . . .

 

[civilwarbuff]

Well, I'm not going to vote for Rome, or Babylon, just because they are there. Our citizenship is in heaven. The Church has lost its way and does not teach the kingdom anymore.

Sounds like you need to find a new church if your current one does not teach the gospel......

 

[civilwarbuff]

We as a Church don't serve God by being divided. Neither party serves God but rather serves only the world. They divide us, corrupt us, and teach us bad things such as covetousness, slander and all manner of flesh works.

You need to re-read what I wrote; I was not talking about a "party".

 

[civilwarbuff]

so what about slavery? Was it wrong to free slaves? Were those who ran the "underground railroad" heroes or villains? After all, slavery has biblical support . . .

It had legal support in the US.....that would be rebelling against "Caesar"....

 

[W2L]

You need to re-read what I wrote; I was not talking about a "party".

That's what we are talking about in this thread. Your statement seems to be ducking the issue.

 

[W2L]

Sounds like you need to find a new church if your current one does not teach the gospel......

More ducking

 

[fi11222]

Sorry fellow, you have a very childish view of history. The "leaders" dealt with a very ugly issue, the abuse of colonists by the British authorities, in the only way available. If you enjoy living with a tyrants boot on your neck, go for it.
Others prefer some sort of liberty, and were willing to die for it.

Are you a Christian?

If you are, what do you think of Romans 13:1-6 ?