The 3rd seal is about 7 years of famine all over the world

[Riberra]

Comfort referring to being removed "harpazo" snatched away to attend the marriage ceremony of Jesus ,,

The Harpazo = CAUGHT UP in the CLOUDS TO MEET JESUS IN THE AIR UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS

No trip to Heaven before the Tribulation mentioned in the Text... 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

you can believe whatever you desire, your view that everyone must be beheaded is way off base and definitely not scriptural , many will be beheaded or shot to death but certainly not everyone

Revelation 13
15 And it was given [unto him] to give breath to it, [even] to the image to the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as should not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Not everyone who will refuse to take the mark and refuse to worship the AC or his image will be killed ,because those days of the 42 months reign of the Beast will be shortened for the elect sake.

 

[iamlamad]

Yet,you are unable to present one verse saying textually that the Church will be taken to Heaven before the Tribulation.

Here you go again: "one verse." You are hopeless. We go by ALL the verses.

Can you pinpoint the BEGINNING of the "tribulation" in Revelation?
Can you pinpoint Paul's rapture in Revelation?
Show us.

 

[keras]

Here you go again: "one verse." You are hopeless. We go by ALL the verses.

Unfortunately for you and your rapture theory, not one of all the verses in the Bible says that God will remove His people from the earth before His Judgements.

 

[Riberra]

Here you go again: "one verse." You are hopeless. We go by ALL the verses.

Which verses talk about going to Heaven while we are ALIVE?

 

[Riberra]

Have you ever studied the last verse of Hebrews 9? Read it in every translation you can find: they all give the same idea. He came once to solve the sin problem. He will come again, but the next time, NOT to solve the sin problem, but for a different purpose. Young's literal does a good job:

So also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time, apart from a sin-offering, shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation!

You have omitted to include verse 27 who prove that Salvation is related to the Judgment of the Dead ----not about being taken to Heaven while you are alive ---->you have been busted |
Hebrews 9
27 And inasmuch as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this [cometh] judgment; 28 so Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to them that wait for him, unto salvation.

You and the pre-tribbers crowd seem to believe that you will not die one day ....and be JUDGED ----> Hebrews 9:27 Think about it ---you want the rewards before the Judgment ..

Since the year 1830 [when the pre-trib rapture have been invented by John Nelson Darby] the pre-tribbers wish to be wisked away while they are alive ...that they are in the Generation of the wise virgins who will not know death ....They have all died like every others humans ...so it will be for you Hebrews 9:27.

The few believers who will still be alive and remain UNTO the Coming of Jesus [1 Thessalonians 4:13-17]will assuredly be waiting for Him....the others will have majority departed from faith as soon that the things will begin to be more harder and that they will realize that no pre-trib rapture will happen.

That will be the Departure from the Faith [APOSTASY] who will precede the revealing of the man of sin prophesied by Paul.

 

[iamlamad]

Unfortunately for you and your rapture theory, not one of all the verses in the Bible says that God will remove His people from the earth before His Judgements.

You are simply mistaken, as usual.

It is those pesky preconceived glasses. Throw them away and start over!

 

[Riberra]

Which verses talk about going to Heaven while we are ALIVE?

Even after the Resurrection of those who died in Jesus there is no mention of going to Heaven ---->1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

 

[R. Hartono]

Yet,you are unable to present one verse saying textually that the Church will be taken to Heaven before the Tribulation.

Please tell me why would Jesus say this :
Matt 25: 11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’
12 “But He replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

And please explain where will the Bridegroom take the Bride.

 

[Riberra]

Please tell me why would Jesus say this :
Matt 25: 11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’
12 “But He replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

Nowhere in the text there is mention of going to Heaven .The wise virgins have enough oil for a long wait ...While the foolish virgins believed that the bridegroom was to come early. When the bridegroom tarried ...they both fallen asleep ...then at midnight a cry was made... the bridegroom is coming ...is coming...

-The message carried by the parable of the ten virgins ,is that those who believed that the bridegroom was to come early were the foolish virgins who were not prepared for a long wait.----

And please explain where will the Bridegroom take the Bride.

Unto Him at His Coming ....

 

[R. Hartono]

Unto Him at His Coming ....

If the wise virgins are taken to Him at His coming why would the foolish virgins cry ? arent they on the same earth ?

 

[Riberra]

If the wise virgins are taken to Him at His coming why would the foolish virgins cry ? arent they on the same earth ?

Yes ...but they have chosen another bridegroom -they have lost their faith [not enough oil] and take the mark ...Remember that is about a END TIME PROPHECY.

 

[Riberra]

If the wise virgins are taken to Him at His coming why would the foolish virgins cry ? arent they on the same earth ?

They are on the same Earth unto the Coming of Jesus in the clouds in Glory.

 

[iamlamad]

Nowhere in the text there is mention of going to Heaven .The wise virgins have enough oil for a long wait ...While the foolish virgins believed that the bridegroom was to come early. When the bridegroom tarried ...they both fallen asleep ...then at midnight a cry was made... the bridegroom is coming ...is coming...

-The message carried by the parable of the ten virgins ,is that those who believed that the bridegroom was to come early were the foolish virgins who were not prepared for a long wait.----


Unto Him at His Coming ....

This is simply not truth. A normal reading of Rev. 19 will prove the wedding takes place in heaven - and the people that attend are already there in heaven - and this is BEFORE Jesus descends: "Unto Him at His coming." Your theory REQUIRES that you rearrange scripture.

Second, JEsus comes WITH His saints. Remember Jude: " "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones"

You have to read into that verse that these are only the spirits of the saints. That idea is simply not in the verse.

Third, TIMING: all through Revelation, when John writes something it takes place right there at that time, unless it is a spoken prophecy. In other words, when John tells us the time for the marriage has come, it happens, right there. You are forced to imagine John wrote it then, and said it is time, but it will not take place then, but latter, after Jesus descends. So WHO is really twisting scripture to fit a theory?

Fourth, your theory is simply impossible: you will have stolen all the sheep at the sheep and goat judgment! In fact, now, with your theory, the rapture will have separated the sheep from the goats.

Fifth, you have ruined any chance for God to replenish the earth during the 1000 year reign: all those who should be there in natural bodies now will have resurrection bodies. Better leave scripture as it is. God's plan is so much better! He comes and gets us 7 plus years before the end, then we enjoy the 7 years in heaven, enjoy the marriage and supper in heaven, and then return with Him to the battle of Armageddon. Those who survive the 70th week, and then survive the sheep and goat judgment will replenish the earth.

 

[iamlamad]

Please tell me why would Jesus say this :
Matt 25: 11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’
12 “But He replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

And please explain where will the Bridegroom take the Bride.

Nice pictures!

 

[iamlamad]

Which verses talk about going to Heaven while we are ALIVE?

Even after the Resurrection of those who died in Jesus there is no mention of going to Heaven ---->1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

WHERE is the wedding? Where will the marriage and supper take place?

Luke 12:36
And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

He returns to earth AFTER the wedding exactly as Revelation shows us.

WHERE is Jesus during the 70th week? You will have to say, "heaven." Further, you will have to admit, IF Jesus came for His saints before the week, then He MUST take them to heaven to be with Him, for that is where He will be during the week. And this is exactly what John 14 tells us. "That where I am, there you may be also."
"So shall we ever be with the Lord"
"Get to live together with Him."

From the moment of the rapture, we will be WITH Him.

Therefore even you would have to admit, if the rapture was before the week, we would HAVE to go to heaven during the week.

Let's let Paul tell us WHEN, shall we?

1 Thes. 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

First, the rapture event is tied to the Day of the Lord, and cannot be separated: but the rapture is the FIRST of the two events. The rapture triggers the DAY. That is the Order in which Paul wrote it.

Second, it will come at a time of peace and safety:

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

It really is laughable that you can imagine "peace and safety" after the 7 vials!

Third, the rapture triggers "sudden destruction." Same verse. This sudden destruction causes all kinds of people to run into the rocks and cry for the rocks to fall on them.

Fourth, it will come before His wrath.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Note carefully that BECAUSE or associated with no appointments with His wrath, we get to "live together with Him." IN CONTEXT, HOW do we get to live together with him? We get caught up! We escape.

Do a search and find the first mention of wrath in Revelation. You will find it is at the great earthquake at the 6th seal. It is the start of the Day of the Lord.

Look for a great crowd too large to number. You will find it is BEFORE the man of sin turned Beast rises up. You will find it is before any of the trumpet judgments. You see, Paul's TIMING is pretrib. This is why all believers should be pretrib. You have to twist scripture to believe a posttrib rapture. The truth is, if there is a rapture at Jesus coming, all those raptured would MISS the marriage and supper. And your theory would make replenishing the earth impossible. End of story and case closed.

 

[Riberra]

WHERE is the wedding? Where will the marriage and supper take place?

Luke 12:36
And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

He returns to earth AFTER the wedding exactly as Revelation shows us.

JEsus comes WITH His saints. Remember Jude: " "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones"

He returns with HIS SAINTS --->the definition of Saints is given in Revelation 16:6 for they have POURED OUT THE BLOOD OF THE SAINTS and the prophets ---Thus confirming that the Marriage is about the SAINTS WHO HAVE BEEN SLAIN FOR THEIR TESTIMONY OF JESUS WHOSE SOULS ARE IN HEAVEN.

--->If you are still not convinced Revelation 19:7-8 tell us that His wife have made herself ready and that she is wearing fine linen WHITE and pure which is the RIGHTEOUS ACTS OF THE SAINTS.... The wife is wearing white clothing exactly like the Early Christians martyrs who have been slain for their testimony of Jesus WHOSE SOULS were seen by John in HEAVEN [Revelation 6:9-11]---->the group of DEAD martyrs have grown to millions over the years ie the crowd to large to number wearing white robes -they came out of great tribulation (they were martyred) Revelation 7:13-14] they are waiting for the last Martyrs ie those who will be beheaded during the 42 months reign of the Beast .Revelation 13 ....In Revelation 19 the group of SAINTS MARTYRS wearing fine linen, WHITE [and] pure ,who have done the RIGHTEOUS ACTS of the SAINTS is COMPLETE and ready for the marriage with Jesus ...

They are giving Glory to God because God have finally avenged their blood
Revelation 19:1-2
1 After these things I heard as it were a great voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, Hallelujah; Salvation, and glory, and power, belong to our God: 2 for true and righteous are his judgments; for he hath judged the great harlot, her that corrupted the earth with her fornication, and he hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.


Revelation 19:7-8

7 Let us rejoice and be exceeding glad, and let us give the glory unto him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And it was given unto her that she should array herself in fine linen, white [and] pure: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

 

[keras]

WHERE is Jesus during the 70th week? You will have to say, "heaven." Further, you will have to admit, IF Jesus came for His saints before the week, then He MUST take them to heaven to be with Him, for that is where He will be during the week. And this is exactly what John 14 tells us. "That where I am, there you may be also."
"So shall we ever be with the Lord"
"Get to live together with Him."

No Iamlamad, we don't HAVE to admit that the Lord will take His people to heaven.
The Bible never actually says that is God's Plan for His people. You only see it because you believe it.
Where Jesus will be is on earth, in Jerusalem and His faithful people will be with Him. All those who stood firm in their faith during the time of testing that we all must face before He comes down from heaven for His Millennium reign.

Actually, with your belief of a rapture to heaven, you fail to see the fantastic Promises that God has made to all us Christians.
Promises of protection during His wrath, promises of peace and prosperity, as we live in all of the holy Land, promises of how He will destroy our attackers and finally; when He Returns, our gathering to Him, Matthew 24:31, 2 Thess 4:17
WE will be His rulers and priests on earth! Revelation 5:9-10

 

[iamlamad]

He returns with HIS SAINTS --->the definition of Saints is given in Revelation 16:6 for they have POURED OUT THE BLOOD OF THE SAINTS and the prophets ---Thus confirming that the Marriage is about the SAINTS WHO HAVE BEEN SLAIN FOR THEIR TESTIMONY OF JESUS WHOSE SOULS ARE IN HEAVEN.

--->If you are still not convinced Revelation 19:7-8 tell us that His wife have made herself ready and that she is wearing fine linen WHITE and pure which is the RIGHTEOUS ACTS OF THE SAINTS.... The wife is wearing white clothing exactly like the Early Christians martyrs who have been slain for their testimony of Jesus WHOSE SOULS were seen by John in HEAVEN [Revelation 6:9-11]---->the group of DEAD martyrs have grown to millions over the years ie the crowd to large to number wearing white robes -they came out of great tribulation (they were martyred) Revelation 7:13-14] they are waiting for the last Martyrs ie those who will be beheaded during the 42 months reign of the Beast .Revelation 13 ....In Revelation 19 the group of SAINTS MARTYRS wearing fine linen, WHITE [and] pure ,who have done the RIGHTEOUS ACTS of the SAINTS is COMPLETE and ready for the marriage with Jesus ...

They are giving Glory to God because God have finally avenged their blood
Revelation 19:1-2
1 After these things I heard as it were a great voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, Hallelujah; Salvation, and glory, and power, belong to our God: 2 for true and righteous are his judgments; for he hath judged the great harlot, her that corrupted the earth with her fornication, and he hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.


Revelation 19:7-8

7 Let us rejoice and be exceeding glad, and let us give the glory unto him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And it was given unto her that she should array herself in fine linen, white [and] pure: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

More complete nonsense. "Saints" are God's people. Period. That means dead or alive people, it makes no difference. "Saints" the word, is used 61 times in the New Testament and most of the time for ALIVE people. So you attempt a snow job here? Sorry, won't work. You have been caught yet again. Oh, I'll give you this: all "live" saints do have blood. Their life is in their blood.

Why are you majoring on death? Paul tells us those that are ALIVE and in Christ will be raised with the dead in Christ. Well, since you will be left behind, maybe it is a good thing to major on death, for you will certainly be overcome as God has said.

One thing you can be sure of: Dead saints cannot do any more righteous acts!

 

[iamlamad]

No Iamlamad, we don't HAVE to admit that the Lord will take His people to heaven.
The Bible never actually says that is God's Plan for His people. You only see it because you believe it.
Where Jesus will be is on earth, in Jerusalem and His faithful people will be with Him. All those who stood firm in their faith during the time of testing that we all must face before He comes down from heaven for His Millennium reign.

Actually, with your belief of a rapture to heaven, you fail to see the fantastic Promises that God has made to all us Christians.
Promises of protection during His wrath, promises of peace and prosperity, as we live in all of the holy Land, promises of how He will destroy our attackers and finally; when He Returns, our gathering to Him, Matthew 24:31, 2 Thess 4:17
WE will be His rulers and priests on earth! Revelation 5:9-10

Nice side step. What I said was, IF the rapture was pretrib, you would have to admit that we would be taken to heaven because that is where Jesus will be for the 70th week.

Do you not believe and agree that Jesus will remain in heaven for the week? Do you imagine He has build mansions or abodes on some other planet than heaven? They are certainly not down here!

"Where Jesus will be is on earth" The question is WHEN? If you imagine it will be during the week, then you ignore scriptures like Rev. 19 that shows Him traveling from HEAVEN to earth, AFTER the 70th week.

In the end, your theory cannot be backed up by scripture. It is human reasoning gone wrong.

"Promises of protection during His wrath" This is a pipe dream: the scripture - the ONLY scripture for believers during those days of great tribulation is that they will be OVERCOME.

 

[Riberra]

More complete nonsense. "Saints" are God's people. Period. That means dead or alive people, it makes no difference.

"Saints" the word, is used 61 times in the New Testament and most of the time for ALIVE people. So you attempt a snow job here? Sorry, won't work. You have been caught yet again. Oh, I'll give you this: all "live" saints do have blood. Their life is in their blood

Yet Revelation 16:6 set up the definition of Saints ----The SAINTS Like the OT Prophets have their blood that have been poured out.
Revelation 16:6
for they poured out the blood of the saints and the prophets, and blood hast thou given them to drink: they are worthy.

Why are you majoring on death? Paul tells us those that are ALIVE and in Christ will be raised with the dead in Christ.

Alive and REMAIN -----The Believers alive and REMAIN UNTO 1 Thessalonians 4:15 KJV the Coming of Jesus in the CLOUDS =Matthew 24:29-31 Jesus is Coming in the CLOUDS.
1 Thessalonians 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are Alive and REMAIN UNTO The COMING of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.

One thing you can be sure of: Dead saints cannot do any more righteous acts!

You are not more worthy than the 12 Apostles ----who have been slain for their testimony of Jesus [Revelation 6:9-11]

What righteous acts have you done lately ...apart from watching TV and eating potato chips and drinking cola...and wishing very hard to be taken to Heaven while you are alive?