The 3rd seal is about 7 years of famine all over the world

[Riberra]

... and NEVER prove your view valid!!

Your tactics are very weak as your have no proof and have no case
your entire case is based on assumptions trying to say that Paul means something other than what he says

Here the Biblical proof that Paul have never talked about a removal to Heaven...

Harpazo = Caught up in the CLOUDS to MEET The LORD IN THE AIR UNTO HIS COMING ....

NOTHING IN THE TEXT of 1 Thess 4:13-17 ABOUT A 7 YEARS TRIP TO HEAVEN .


1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

13 But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that fall asleep; that ye sorrow not, even as the rest, who have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also that are fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; 17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[seventysevens]

Here the Biblical proof that Paul have never talked about a removal to Heaven...

Harpazo = Caught up in the CLOUDS to MEET The LORD IN THE AIR UNTO HIS COMING .... NOTHING IN THE TEXT of 1 Thess 4:13-17 ABOUT A 7 YEARS TRIP TO HEAVEN .

Being caught up into the air NOTHING IN THE TEXT SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT AN IMMEDIATE RETURN TRIP TO EARTH
You ADD what you want it to be
Rapture is a time of comfort for the saints to look to says Paul
Second coming is a time of woe for the earth

Show a scripture that say that people who have accepted salvation BEFORE the GT will go through it

 

[Riberra]

Being caught up into the air NOTHING IN THE TEXT SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT AN IMMEDIATE RETURN TRIP TO EARTH
You ADD what you want it to be
Rapture is a time of comfort for the saints to look to says Paul
Second coming is a time of woe for the earth

The text is about what will happen UNTO HIS COMING ....I have added nothing...i have only bold the text..

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

13 But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that fall asleep; that ye sorrow not, even as the rest, who have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also that are fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; 17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Show a scripture that say that people who have accepted salvation BEFORE the GT will go through it

Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:

 

[seventysevens]

Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:

That scripture in no way whatsoever speaks of people who accepted Christ BEFORE the GT happens - it only refers to those that are in it
There will be people who see at the time of the GT that what the bible said would happen has happened and they will repent and accept Jesus as savoir - it is they who will suffer the GT -
People who accept Christ BEFORE AS IN BEFORE _ SURELY YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THE WORD BEFORE MEANS AS IN BEFORE IT STARTS -BEFORE IT BEGINS will not be included in it

There are several threads on this same subject that provide details that prove your error - I am not wasting my time debating it with you
Gods wrath kills all unrepentant sinners that reject Christ
according to you everyone else that accepts Christ is killed by the AC = no living people
If AC kills all Christians and God kills all those who reject him there is no people left
Scripture clearly teaches there is a time of mystery of Jesus returning that is in reference to a time that Christians take comfort and no one see that happen
there is also the teaching that a later time that Jesus is coming to earth and every eye will see him coming with the saints and it is a time of woe - there is a very good specific reason what the bible writers taught of a few harvests of Jesus believers and you are so indoctrinated in a false understanding that you refuse to study and learn what it means
It took me at least twice to remind you of those who are taken into protection by God before you even knew what I was talking about and still you still do not know the country that the AC has no power or control over
You need to come to the point in your heart and mind to understand if God wants you to demand that everyone believes as you do or if you should focus on what God wants you to do to serve him
because you are not accomplishing anything at all except dividing the brethren.. it matters not at all to me what you believe

 

[R. Hartono]

Jesus say outright to those that love him should look forward to His coming - In your view the people who are told they should be looking up to heaven to know and see that their death is at hand - very far from what Jesus actually says

Thats very beautifully inspired by Holy Spirit.

 

[keras]

Be a Godly man and just prove your case without trying to tear down the brethren --

People here can easily see who is being truthful and honest, and who uses words like; 'total nonsense, foolish teachings, tearing down the brethren', etc.

The one who has no truth, is the one who cannot provide any definitive scripture to prove that God intends to take His people to heaven.
My case is proved by Jesus; No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from there. John 3:13
No one; means no natural human, I view Enoch, Elijah and the two Witnesses, as Spiritual beings and as Jesus was too, of course.

 

[keras]

That scripture in no way whatsoever speaks of people who accepted Christ BEFORE the GT happens - it only refers to those that are in it

There is no 'before' in Revelation 12 at all, let alone in verse 17; that refers to those Christians who 'violated the Covenant', Daniel 11:32a
You have added to Revelation. Not advisable!

 

[seventysevens]

There is no 'before' in Revelation 12 at all, let alone in verse 17; that refers to those Christians who 'violated the Covenant', Daniel 11:32a
You have added to Revelation. Not advisable!

YOU Are guilty of exactly of that which you accuse - you are guilty of tearing down and attacking people because they do not agree with you !
Now you make up fake stuff that I said the word BEFORE was the scripture - you are now showing your severely bad level of reading - I NEVER said the word before was in scripture - I said that you will not find any scripture that indicates a point in time that is BEFORE the GT !! as in today is BEFORE the GT and everyday that passes BEFORE the GT takes place is BEFORE the GT that teaches we will be in it -

ALL you do is attack views that you don't agree with -
try proving that the bible teaches that every person this moment right now today will go through the GT IF it began tomorrow
Prove what you say is true and stop with the insults and attacks
Are you capable of understanding the English words of saying prove your case

Once again you cannot find any scripture at all that teaches that people who have accepted Jesus as savoir BEFORE the GT takes place will be in any of it
and since you cannot even read a post properly there is proof that you cannot read scripture properly either

 

[seventysevens]

My case is proved by Jesus; No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from there. John 3:13
.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

That Fathers house is in heaven

 

[keras]

That Fathers house is in heaven

But Jesus will have been on earth for His Millennium reign, by the time we humans see the New Jerusalem. Revelation 21:1-7

ALL you do is attack views that you don't agree with -
try proving that the bible teaches that every person this moment right now today will go through the GT IF it began tomorrow

I refute the theories, ideas and fanciful notions of mans teachings. The rapture to heaven is just one of them. 2 Timothy 4:3-4
The proof of God's holy people, all the faithful Christians being present in all of the holy Land is: Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 Also Revelation 5:9-10 and 12:6-17 refers to the Christians on earth.

Your attitude, seventy sevens, is typical of someone who has their beliefs challenged and who finds they haven't actually got any proper support for those beliefs.
Your outbursts show you up in a very bad light. I suggest that if you can't refute what I post in a normal manner, then you should cease posting.

 

[seventysevens]

I refute the theories, ideas and fanciful notions of mans teachings. The rapture to heaven is just one of them.

keras
Your attitude and demeanor reveals that you only seek to edify yourself - you attempt to lift yourself up by putting down the brethren and you think that is ok - in the near future the Lord Himself will straighten you out on that as you seek an elevated status

Problem is that in your own mind you think you refute things but all you have done is start fights as you don't even understand what you read let alone refute it - just as you telling me that the word Before was not in Revelation 12 quoting me when I used the word Before , where you falsely believed that I said it was part of the scripture - which proves that you not only do not understand scripture but you don't even read a post in a forum properly and thus come to the wrong conclusion again and again which is what you do so often.
You have not refuted anything ! you may disagree but you have not refuted anything - seems you do not know the different meanings of those words .

There will be a harpazo before the GT begins - you really need to study why scripture uses the terminology of harvests as in more than one harvest of souls , If you say you have refuted a pre trib harpazo here is that challenge for you!

In order for you to be able to refute this will will have to acknowledge the simple facts
1. The GT has not yet happened

2. Any person who has accepted Jesus as Lord and savoir and has become born-again Christian today or at anytime BEFORE the GT starts will not go through the GT

3. In order for you to refute this you need to prove with scripture that the scripture is making a direct and distinct statement that applies to people who accepted Jesus as savoir BEFORE the GT begins that God says they will be in it - you need to show scripture that God says that his followers will be subject to His wrath or the wrath of satan - Not some obscure nonsense you typically come up with

4.You will have to study the scripture that shows some people who do belong to Christ going through the GT and prove that they accepted Christ as savoir BEFORE the GT began

Because you have such difficulty understanding what is written I shall use a different word
Show a scripture that proves that people who have accepted Christ as savoir being born-again in Christ PRIOR to the GT begins , that Gods says they must suffer through it - which means in order for you to refute this you have to provide scripture that clearly states that people who are born again Christians PRIOR to the start of the GT must suffer through it -
Your nonsense is refuted

 

[Riberra]

It is astonishing that such simple questions you cannot answer nor understand
If someone says to you BEFORE you go to work please take out the trash -
it means BEFORE - not after work and not during work

-Tell us where is the before in Matthew 24 ?

-Tell us why it is said that those who will ENDURE until the End will be saved if there is suppose to be a removal ?
-Tell us why there is no mention of a removal in Matthew 24 ?
-Tell us at what verse is the before in the Book of Revelation ?

Tell us why there is no mention of a removal in the Book of Revelation ?

 

[keras]

Find a scripture say clearly says that ALL born again Christians that accepted Christ prior to - BEFORE the Great Tribulation begins will be killed in the GT

This question displays a great lack of knowledge about what the Bible tells us of the last days.
It will be those who refuse to take the mark of the beast, who will be killed. They may be Christians, but not necessarily so.

We are all born again Christians, I assume; and we will be here on earth during the GT. The Lord promises protection for His own, we are told to ask for it and it will be given.
Whatever happens, we are plainly told to endure until the end. Revelation 13:10 & 14:12

Like Riberra, I will no longer reply to you, mainly because I don't like to see anyone making statements that may affect their future status. The Lord will judge those who teach more severely. James 3:1

 

[seventysevens]

keras
if the question is so difficult for you to prove wrong it is on you
you have a lack of understanding and I am so tired of hearing from you telling people that they will not be in the kingdom because they believe in a pre trib rapture
You should have known that since you cannot prove it false you should have just let it alone , you simply do not know what you are talking about but you tell people that you teach bible prophecy - what you teach is wrong and how you teach it is demeaning and tearing down people who do not believe you
I will certainly be much happier to know that you won't be bothering me anymore cause I am very tired of hearing your degrading talk

This question displays a great lack of knowledge about what the Bible tells us of the last days.
It will be those who refuse to take the mark of the beast, who will be killed. They may be Christians, but not necessarily so.

We are all born again Christians, I assume; and we will be here on earth during the GT. The Lord promises protection for His own, we are told to ask for it and it will be given.
Whatever happens, we are plainly told to endure until the end. Revelation 13:10 & 14:12

Like Riberra, I will no longer reply to you, mainly because I don't like to see anyone making statements that may affect their future status. The Lord will judge those who teach more severely. James 3:1[/QUOT]

 

[keras]

1 Thessalonians 4:15 This is a word from the Lord; those of His people who are still alive, when the Lord comes, will have no advantage over those who have died.

1Thessalonians 4:16-17 ...when Gods trumpet sounds and Jesus descends from heaven, firstly the Christian dead will rise, then we who are still alive will join them.
Thus, we shall always be with the Lord. [on the earth]

Zechariah 14:4-5 On that Day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives.....the Lord will
appear, attended by all His angels. Matthew 16:27

Scripture reads clearly – the so called rapture will occur when Jesus Christ returns at the end of the Great Tribulation.
The doctrine that His “church” people are simply waiting to be whisked away into heaven tends to produce a carefree and careless attitude in those awaiting Christ’s Return. Tragically, millions are now being set up to ‘simply believe in Jesus and don’t worry about anything else”. This is short-sighted, irresponsible thinking.

Many verses show that Christianity involves active effort, at the very least “watch and pray always”.

Many of the Bible’s greatest prophecies culminate in the Return of Jesus. This will be the most wonderful event that the world has seen, but what precedes it will be very different – terrible wars and tribulations will engulf every society. It will take great trust and faith in Gods power to hold steady until the end.

Luke 18:8 When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?

God wants you to rely on Him, to trust Him completely. In the near future , when others are gripped by fear, uncertainty and confusion and have no idea of where to turn to for answers, God does not want His people to agonize over what may happen next.

Luke 21:18-19 Not a hair of your head will be lost. By standing firm you will win
yourselves life.
Revelation 13:10 ..... this calls for the endurance and faithfulness of Gods people.

Matthew 24:30-31 And then shall appear.... the son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. He shall send His angels with the sound of the great trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four corners of the earth.

Daniel 7:27 The kingly power and sovereignty of all the kingdoms under heaven will be given to the Holy people of the Most High. Their power will last forever and every realm will serve and obey them.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

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