The 3rd seal is about 7 years of famine all over the world

[R. Hartono]

they feel no pain, as the Lord puts them under a kind of trance. Beheading too, is a very quick and sure death.

Thats your expectation, when you feel the pain it will be different.

 

[Riberra]

Thats your expectation.

And your expectation is that you will not be there when this happen...that you will be wisked away just before the hard time.... sweet dream !!!...

Hint:if you have the misfortune to be alive when this happen you will be there ....Like Job when he was tested for his faith...or the Apostles who had no favor treatment...

 

[R. Hartono]

If the tribulation is to happen tomorrow you will be there also..

I said you never have a bloody tribulation from the devil like Job did. thats why you think the tribulation will happen in the tribulation.

 

[Riberra]

I said you never have a bloody tribulation from the devil like Job did. thats why you think the tribulation will happen in the tribulation.

Revelation 13
5 and there was given to him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and there was given to him authority to continue forty and two months.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and there was given to him authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.

8 And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, [every one] whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain.

9 If any man hath an ear, let him hear.

10 If any man [is] for captivity, into captivity he goeth: if any man shall kill with the sword, with the sword must he be killed. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
....
15 And it was given [unto him] to give breath to it, [even] to the image to the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as should not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead;
17 and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, [even] the name of the beast or the number of his name.

 

[iamlamad]

Explain to us what the 'making ready of the Bride' would be.
How do those worthy to wear the white linen clothing gain their righteous deeds and their invitation to the Lord's feast?
Note: that the crowd in heaven of Revelation 19:1-8, are dead people. They are the souls of the martyrs, as described in Revelation 6:9-11, that praise God for finally taking vengeance on their killers. verse 2b

Find the word "dead" there and show us, or quit making such statements that cannot be backed up by scripture.

The truth is, they are the same crowd John saw that was too large to number.

 

[iamlamad]

Typical nonsense from a confused and deceived person; deceived and locked into false beliefs.
The sad thing, is that when things do get difficult and you are not taken to heaven as you think, you may not have the spiritual strength to stand firm in your faith.

Just post the scriptural proof of a 'rapture to heaven' and I will be quite happy to concede and join in your belief. If you can't find any rapture proof, then you must reconsider your beliefs and find our what God really does want of you.

The rapture is there in scripture for all who can believe what is written. If you wish to remain behind and "tribulate" you can; I am sure God will leave you behind since that is your belief.

However, you could begin to believe Luke 21:36. As we are going up, if I see you, I will shout, "don't take the mark!" However, my guess is, it will be too fast.

 

[keras]

Find the word "dead" there and show us, or quit making such statements that cannot be backed up by scripture.

The truth is, they are the same crowd John saw that was too large to number.

The real truth is the voices heard in Revelation 19:1-7 are the souls of the martyrs, proved by how they thank God for taking vengeance on their murderers. verse 2b
The vast multitude seen by John in Revelation 7:9 are the Lord's holy people from every race and nation, that are gathered in the holy Land soon after the just happened Sixth Seal event.

The rapture is there in scripture for all who can believe what is written. If you wish to remain behind and "tribulate" you can; I am sure God will leave you behind since that is your belief.

However, you could begin to believe Luke 21:36. As we are going up, if I see you, I will shout, "don't take the mark!" However, my guess is, it will be too fast.

Then why don't you provide a proof scripture that says God will take His Church to heaven?

Luke 21:36 is mis-translated in some Bibles, as 'escape from all these things'. In correct translations, it is rendered as pass safely through all that is coming....
It cannot be an escape out of the world that is meant, because that contradicts Luke 21:34-35, where we are told the Lord's Day of wrath will suddenly come upon everyone.
Left behind? I am more than happy to stay where I can fulfil what the Lord has for me to do.
I expect to see you, iamlamad, and you will be very ashamed of how you believed and taught error.

 

[iamlamad]

The real truth is the voices heard in Revelation 19:1-7 are the souls of the martyrs, proved by how they thank God for taking vengeance on their murderers. verse 2b
The vast multitude seen by John in Revelation 7:9 are the Lord's holy people from every race and nation, that are gathered in the holy Land soon after the just happened Sixth Seal event.

Then why don't you provide a proof scripture that says God will take His Church to heaven?

Luke 21:36 is mis-translated in some Bibles, as 'escape from all these things'. In correct translations, it is rendered as pass safely through all that is coming....
It cannot be an escape out of the world that is meant, because that contradicts Luke 21:34-35, where we are told the Lord's Day of wrath will suddenly come upon everyone.
Left behind? I am more than happy to stay where I can fulfil what the Lord has for me to do.
I expect to see you, iamlamad, and you will be very ashamed of how you believed and taught error.

Rev. 19:
2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Sorry, but this is 3rd person. This is certainly not proof. It is trying to make a verse fit a theory. If I were you, I would reverse this trend you have.

"that are gathered in the holy Land soon after the just happened Sixth Seal event."
You sure have a way of reading into a verse what is not there! Sorry, but this crowd is around the throne in heaven. They were just raptured and escorted to heaven.

Of course He will take His church to heaven. That is where HE will be during the 70th week. You know He does not return to earth until Rev. 19 - AFTER the marriage in heaven. Did you just overlook " receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." He stays in heaven for the entire 70th week.

"Luke 21:36 is mis-translated in some Bibles,"
Sorry, another attempt to force a verse to fit a theory. Shame! You may fool some here. You certainly will not fool all. The Greek word translated into "escape" is the very same word in all the Greek texts. And it means "escape." A few transliterations may have it as "Pass safely through." Real translations have it correctly as "escape." It is just you trying to make a verse fit your pet theory.

"we are told the Lord's Day of wrath will suddenly come upon everyone."
Again trying to force a verse to say what you want it to say.

"it will come as a snare on all those who live on the face of the whole earth."

If the church or Bride escapes, THEY WILL NOT BE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH!

My friend, you have a real problem not just taking scripture for its face value and forming doctrine from what it says. Your preconceived glasses cause you read into every verse what you want it to say. If I were you, I would chuck it all into file 13 and start over. Just believe what the verse says! It's really not that difficult.

 

[R. Hartono]

I guess the different opinion of pretribber and post tribber doesnt necessarily cause someone to be left behind, God judges people's
heart. The hearts that love and forgive others.

 

[iamlamad]

I guess the different opinion of pretribber and post tribber doesnt necessarily cause someone to be left behind, God judges people's
heart. The hearts that love and forgive others.

You might meditate on Luke 21:36 and on how many times in the gospels we find the word "watch." It seems that Jesus is coming for those who are expecting Him and watching for Him.

It puzzles me how anyone who believes in a posttrib rapture can be expecting Jesus to come tomorrow.

 

[R. Hartono]

You might meditate on Luke 21:36 and on how many times in the gospels we find the word "watch." It seems that Jesus is coming for those who are expecting Him and watching for Him.

It puzzles me how anyone who believes in a posttrib rapture can be expecting Jesus to come tomorrow.

I think we all hv the same chance of Salvation whether we are pretribber or a postribber, if one of these is wrong we pray Jesus will teach the wrong one.

 

[iamlamad]

I think we all hv the same chance of Salvation whether we are pretribber or a postribber, if one of these is wrong we pray Jesus will teach the wrong one.

Have you ever studied the last verse of Hebrews 9? Read it in every translation you can find: they all give the same idea. He came once to solve the sin problem. He will come again, but the next time, NOT to solve the sin problem, but for a different purpose. Young's literal does a good job:

So also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time, apart from a sin-offering, shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation!

CJB) so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, i will appear a second time, not to deal with sin, but to deliver those who are eagerly waiting for him.

(CSB) so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.

(ESV) so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

(LEB) thus also Christ, having been offered once in order to bear the sins of many, will appear for the second time without reference to sin to those who eagerly await him for salvation.

(NIV) so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Do you see what is common in all of these translations? He will appear to those who are eagerly awaiting Him! So what if someone imagines they will see the Beast first? Will they be eagerly awaiting Him? I think this is why God has given us a bible where we are told to watch 14 different times!

 

[Riberra]

Have you ever studied the last verse of Hebrews 9? Read it in every translation you can find: they all give the same idea. He came once to solve the sin problem. He will come again, but the next time, NOT to solve the sin problem, but for a different purpose. Young's literal does a good job:

So also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time, apart from a sin-offering, shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation!

Do a search about Messianic Salvation ...you will see that it is not about being taken out of the Earth while you are alive... Jesus SAVE OR SOUL...SO WE WILL NOT END INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE LIKE THE UNREPENTANT SINNERS.

 

[iamlamad]

Do a search about Messianic Salvation ...you will see that it is not about being taken out of the Earth while you are alive... Jesus SAVE OR SOUL...SO WE WILL NOT END INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE LIKE THE UNREPENTANT SINNERS.

I'm not a Jew or a Hebrew. I am very much a Gentile and a part of the Gentile body of Christ on earth. One end times scripture that pertains to the Gentile church is 1 Thes. 4 & 5. this IS about being taken off the Earth. We are going to heaven. If you wish to get left behind, and face beheading, go right ahead on!

 

[Riberra]

I'm not a Jew or a Hebrew. I am very much a Gentile and a part of the Gentile body of Christ on earth.

The Gentiles [you and me] who believe in Jesus are also part of the same promises given to Abraham, since the gentiles believers have been grafted into the Olive Tree 2,000 years ago....

Eternal Life into The Kingdom Of God who will be established on the Earth.

One end times scripture that pertains to the Gentile church is 1 Thes. 4 & 5. this IS about being taken off the Earth. We are going to heaven. If you wish to get left behind, and face beheading, go right ahead on!

Look carefully at 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 THERE IS NO MENTION THAT JESUS WILL RETURN TO HEAVEN WITH SOMEONE AFTER THE RESURRECTION....

The text is about DEAD Believers who will be resurrected out of their GRAVES ...and the believers STILL alive AND REMAIN who will be caught up in the clouds together WITH THEM to meet Jesus in THE AIR AT HIS COMING.

When Jesus will descend from Heaven that will be to establish His KINGDOM ON THE EARTH...

 

[seventysevens]

The text is about DEAD Believers who will be resurrected out of their GRAVES ...and the believers STILL alive AND REMAIN who will be caught up in the clouds together WITH THEM to meet Jesus in THE AIR

The text is about DEAD Believers And Believers who are Alive caught up together to meet Jesus in THE AIR. It DOES NOT say anything about coming to earth ....; your added opinion is not scripture just your opinion!
IF you study this refers to a time of comfort for believers and no mention of Jesus being seen

But the second coming when every eye on earth sees Jesus coming -scriptures clearly states it will be a time of woes to people on earth and panic and people mourning as they see Jesus coming

You can have your opinion even though scripture does not support it UNLESS you add in your assumptions but even then it fails

You should get a hobby like soccer to vent your forcefulness

 

[Riberra]

The text is about DEAD Believers And Believers who are Alive caught up together to meet Jesus in THE AIR.

The text in KJV say alive AND REMAIN...do a search about the word REMAIN....

It DOES NOT say anything about coming to earth ....; your added opinion is not scripture just your opinion!

The text say ALIVE AND REMAIN UNTO THE COMING OF THE LORD -----> THERE IS NO MENTION THAT JESUS WILL RETURN TO HEAVEN WITH SOMEONE.

IF you study this refers to a time of comfort for believers and no mention of Jesus being seen

A time of comfort for the believers who will be alive and REMAIN ...UNTO HIS COMING.

 

[iamlamad]

The Gentiles [you and me] who believe in Jesus are also part of the same promises given to Abraham, since the gentiles believers have been grafted into the Olive Tree 2,000 years ago....

Eternal Life into The Kingdom Of God who will be established on the Earth.


Look carefully at 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 THERE IS NO MENTION THAT JESUS WILL RETURN TO HEAVEN WITH SOMEONE AFTER THE RESURRECTION....

The text is about DEAD Believers who will be resurrected out of their GRAVES ...and the believers STILL alive AND REMAIN who will be caught up in the clouds together WITH THEM to meet Jesus in THE AIR AT HIS COMING.

When Jesus will descend from Heaven that will be to establish His KINGDOM ON THE EARTH...

Riberra, you should be ashamed! We don't go by ONE SCRIPTURE but by all the end times scriptures. OTHER scriptures and all of them together show that we spend the 7 years with Jesus in heaven. I am sorry that you don't believe that, for it is truth.

Sorry, but the bible does not teach a yoyo church. We are going up. If you wish to be left behind, and it seems you do, no one is going to prevent you from staying behind.

 

[seventysevens]

A time of comfort for the believers who will be alive and REMAIN ...UNTO HIS COMING.

Comfort referring to being removed "harpazo" snatched away to attend the marriage ceremony of Jesus ,,you can believe whatever you desire, your view that everyone must be beheaded is way off base and definitely not scriptural , many will be beheaded or shot to death but certainly not everyone

 

[Riberra]

Riberra, you should be ashamed! We don't go by ONE SCRIPTURE but by all the end times scriptures. OTHER scriptures and all of them together show that we spend the 7 years with Jesus in heaven. I am sorry that you don't believe that, for it is truth.

Yet,you are unable to present one verse saying textually that the Church will be taken to Heaven before the Tribulation.