The 3rd seal is about 7 years of famine all over the world

[keras]

There is none so blind than those who REFUSE to see
Just as the Pharisees puffed up their pride that they are the lawmakers and their position as such , they had religion and no love - they profess to have a relationship with God but Jesus stated they did not have such - Jesus says do NOT be like them - all puffed up in their pride _ Jesus said that HE will prepare a place in His Fathers House in Heaven and He will come for us and take us there - and we shall always be with Him
Jesus did not speak about death when he spoke of this

Consider why did the Omnipresent All Knowing God not include the names of Jesus parents in the scriptures so that King Herod could know who they were , why Herod had to kill all boys 2 yrs and younger , why the magi did not return to Herod and telll him where the baby Jesus was , your carnal way of thinking is blocking you from seeing the truth - just as you comments have shown

Typical nonsense from a confused and deceived person; deceived and locked into false beliefs.
The sad thing, is that when things do get difficult and you are not taken to heaven as you think, you may not have the spiritual strength to stand firm in your faith.

Just post the scriptural proof of a 'rapture to heaven' and I will be quite happy to concede and join in your belief. If you can't find any rapture proof, then you must reconsider your beliefs and find our what God really does want of you.

 

[seventysevens]

Typical nonsense from a confused and deceived person; deceived and locked into false beliefs.
The sad thing, is that when things do get difficult and you are not taken to heaven as you think, you may not have the spiritual strength to stand firm in your faith.

Just post the scriptural proof of a 'rapture to heaven' and I will be quite happy to concede and join in your belief. If you can't find any rapture proof, then you must reconsider your beliefs and find our what God really does want of you.

This is the typical level of mean spirited dribble from a post tribberr - you don't have the love of Christ in you - as Jesus commanded to love as He has loved you - but your'e consumed with pride and arrogance typical of post tribbers
Absolute nonsense you utter to even suggest that any true born again believer would turn away from Christ if the rapture did not happen before the GT - it is nothing more than your desperate destitute clinging to suppose that you could be correct - there is so much scripture that you do not include and that is why you can't see it - you do not want to admit your error - so you refuse to look at it , of course you could not grasp the fact that rapture means "snatched away by force Suddenly " and that does Not happen after the GT - rather it is a gathering of those who are believers unto Jesus while Jesus is seen coming to earth , the word rapture is not used in Matthew -Mark or Luke

There is no Marriage of the Lamb on earth - it is in Heaven at the fathers house

Just post a scripture proof that says that All born again believers who are born again BEFORE the GT will go through it - those who go through were NOT born again believers BEFORE the GT -or they are back slid into sinful lifestyle and were not ready .

Just post a scripture proof that teaches the Trinity , but it is real
But it be a waste of time to engage with people who have such pride that they have not the desire to simply accept people with a different view
The sad thing is that people like you have such a hardened heart that you only love people that agree with you , it is the mean spirit you and Riberra and other post tribbers that have caused the churches to steer clear of the topic because they don't want to deal with the mean spirit of division it causes

 

[Heart2Soul]

Why can't people see that the first five Seals are already open?
The world has had wars, famines, plagues and financial disasters in full measure since the first century, when as John tells us in Revelation 6:1; Jesus opened them.

The Fifth Seal proves it; all the martyrs since Stephen, have their souls kept under the heavenly Altar and more are added to them, as we see today.

But the Sixth Seal remains unopened, as yet. The things described in it have not happened and it awaits the Appointed time when the Lord will arise and destroy His enemies.

I can agree with this....while in prayer God was speaking to me to about separating myself from worldy things for this is the last generation before we see fulfillment of prophecy....(last generation of 40 years? and what was the start of those 40 years...2000?

 

[God bless Joshua]

I have nothing to do with fables and unscriptural theories.
My faith is in the Lord's saving power during the hard times ahead. I will endure until the end,

Christians left behind in the tribulation will be beheaded, there is no Lord's saving power to save your head. their souls will be placed under the Altar of the 5th seal.

Rev 20:4 ....and i saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[keras]

This is the typical level of mean spirited dribble from a post tribberr - you don't have the love of Christ in you - as Jesus commanded to love as He has loved you - but your'e consumed with pride and arrogance typical of post tribbers
Absolute nonsense you utter to even suggest that any true born again believer would turn away from Christ if the rapture did not happen before the GT - it is nothing more than your desperate destitute clinging to suppose that you could be correct - there is so much scripture that you do not include and that is why you can't see it - you do not want to admit your error - so you refuse to look at it , of course you could not grasp the fact that rapture means "snatched away by force Suddenly " and that does Not happen after the GT - rather it is a gathering of those who are believers unto Jesus while Jesus is seen coming to earth , the word rapture is not used in Matthew -Mark or Luke

There is no Marriage of the Lamb on earth - it is in Heaven at the fathers house

Just post a scripture proof that says that All born again believers who are born again BEFORE the GT will go through it - those who go through were NOT born again believers BEFORE the GT -or they are back slid into sinful lifestyle and were not ready .

Just post a scripture proof that teaches the Trinity , but it is real
But it be a waste of time to engage with people who have such pride that they have not the desire to simply accept people with a different view
The sad thing is that people like you have such a hardened heart that you only love people that agree with you , it is the mean spirit you and Riberra and other post tribbers that have caused the churches to steer clear of the topic because they don't want to deal with the mean spirit of division it causes

The usual rant and rave of a believer of the false rapture teaching. It shows your true colors.
Does the fact that you cannot provide any scriptural proof of a rapture to heaven of the Church, not give you some concern?
Doesn't the fact that Jesus said such a thing was impossible, concern you? John 3:13, Revelation 14:12
Does the Great Commission that all we Christians have; allow anyone a get out of jail free card? An escape from our responsibilities?

Immortal, spiritual beings live in the Spiritual realm of heaven. How is it possible for humans to go there? Note that only after the Millennium will those whose names are in the Book of Life, be given immortality. And then God comes to dwell on earth too.

 

[seventysevens]

Not in the slightest as God has revealed the answer in His word , but since you look for an answer with the carnal mind and choose spiritual blindness you can't see the answer is given in many places in Gods Word.

Your carnal mindset is like those who say that Jesus never claimed to be God , even though the people who Jesus spoke with understood it clearly and wanted to stone him to death for blasphemy , but some of today's people choose not to understand what that means,
You choose not to believe because you are looking for the simplest from of English vocabulary that says it how You want it to be said and not accepting how God chose to say it
John3 is reference that no one can of their own accord go to heaven without the escorting and permission of Christ , No one can just go visit the White House to visit the President - a protocol must be followed - you just can't do it without following that protocol

Jesus said HIMSELF that HE HIMSELF will come and take us to His Fathers house which is IN HEAVEN
You are forcing your carnal ways onto the Creator of the Universes - you are saying that God cannot do it even though he told you He IS going to do it , even giving some data as to how he will do it,

The fact that God has provided enough detail to understand that Jesus says that those who have devoted them selves unto Him and believed what Jesus said ,

FACT there is no such scripture not even any hints in scripture that born again Christians that have accepted Christ BEFORE the GT will enter into it - NOT EVEN ONE! every scripture that you try to find that supports your view REQUIRES ASSUMPTION and for you to pound the square peg into the round holes stripping away much in order to FORCE your view simply cause there are no scriptures that can even come close to supporting your view without the needed assumptions

First you need to PROVE your case WITHOUT Assumptions which you know you can't do it -
In simple terms , If a person says their father lives in Japan and they are preparing a place for you in their fathers house and will come and take you to the place they have prepared for you so that you can be with them - the place you will go Mr Obvious is JAPAN , because that is where the placed prepared for you is located

God the Fathers House is in Heaven -Jesus has said in very simple plain language and simple terms the place HE has prepared for us is in HEAVEN _ NOT EARTH!
God gives you every breath of life you breath - you do not make it or provide it by your self , just as God provides your every breath He will provide the way to HIS HOUSE IN HEAVEN

The ONLY reason you refuse to include Jesus boldly saying that He is preparing a place for us in Heaven and will come to take us there is because it refutes ALL that you have to say about the matter and your pride prevents you from admitting

The wisest thing you could do is humble yourself and stop trying to force you unsupportable view on people -
Jesus rose people from the grave when He resurrected from the grave , Jesus created people , Jesus will transform the mortal body into an immortal body at the time of the Harpazo - which is telling outright that those who have already died in Christ will recieve their immortal body - then immediately after those who are ALIVE will be "snatched away with force Suddenly " up into the air and taken to the wedding party that happens IN HEAVEN _NOT ON EARTH

You intentionally omit any scriptures that refutes your view and in time you will ask God fro forgiveness for doing so
You really need to study about the book of life as you seem to not have all info you need to properly understand it

The usual rant and rave of a believer of the false rapture teaching. It shows your true colors.
Does the fact that you cannot provide any scriptural proof of a rapture to heaven of the Church, not give you some concern?
Doesn't the fact that Jesus said such a thing was impossible, concern you? John 3:13, Revelation 14:12
Does the Great Commission that all we Christians have; allow anyone a get out of jail free card? An escape from our responsibilities?

Immortal, spiritual beings live in the Spiritual realm of heaven. How is it possible for humans to go there? Note that only after the Millennium will those whose names are in the Book of Life, be given immortality. And then God comes to dwell on earth too.

 

[Riberra]

Jesus rose people from the grave when He resurrected from the grave ,

What have happened to them ?Into what kind of body were they resurrected ?

Jesus created people , Jesus will transform the mortal body into an immortal body at the time of the Harpazo -

The HARPAZO [caught up TO MEET Jesus in THE AIR] 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 is TIED with THE COMING OF JESUS.
The MAIN EVENT OF THE DAY WILL BE The RESURRECTION of the DEAD in CHRIST HERE ON THE EARTH at His COMING....THEN the Believers who will STILL be alive AND REMAIN UNTO THE COMING OF JESUS will be caught up [WITH THEM] in the CLOUDS TO MEET JESUS IN THE AIR ---->TO WHERE JESUS WILL BE AT HIS COMING--->IN THE CLOUDS OVER JERUSALEM.

which is telling outright that those who have already died in Christ will recieve their immortal body - then immediately after those who are ALIVE will be "snatched away with force Suddenly " up into the air and taken to the wedding party that happens IN HEAVEN _NOT ON EARTH

Wow ..you can see a 7 Years PARTY in Heaven in the text of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (?)....

Nowhere in the text it is said that Jesus will make a U-Turn and will return to Heaven with someone.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

13 But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that fall asleep; that ye sorrow not, even as the rest, who have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also that are fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; 17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[keras]

Jesus said HIMSELF that HE HIMSELF will come and take us to His Fathers house which is IN HEAVEN

John 14:1-3 never mentions heaven. Where do you get that from? I want to know; do not avoid this.
Jesus says He will come again.... Come to where? From heaven to earth, of course.
He will take His faithful people to where He is. Where? To Jerusalem, as Acts 1:11, Zechariah 14:4 say.

 

[seventysevens]

John 14:1-3 never mentions heaven. Where do you get that from? I want to know; do not avoid this.
Jesus says He will come again.... Come to where? From heaven to earth, of course.
He will take His faithful people to where He is. Where? To Jerusalem, as Acts 1:11, Zechariah 14:4 say.

Sad that this simple matter is so hard for you to understand
Jesus says that he prepares a place for us in His Fathers House - that House Jesus is speaking of is in Heaven , Jesus says that He will come to take us back to his fathers house so that we can be where He is -- NO reference to coming to earth - direct reference to going to his fathers house that is located in heaven - very simple , but yet you can't understand something that simple .

Jesus did not say His Fathers house was in Jerusalem , We will come to Jerusalem from Jesus fathers House in Heaven at the time Jesus come from heaven to earth ,
Jesus said he would come to take us to where he is at His fathers house and he did not say he would come down to earth to do it !

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

You are a grown man but to continue to play head games because you will not accept truth when it refutes what you prefer to believe.

We get our judicial system practices from the concepts laid out in scripture , just as in a court case there are multiple facts that are put together to reveal a truth . Often it is not just one singular fact that proves the truth but the sum of multiple provable truths combined that proves the case , not assumptions and suppositions , but several PROVABLE Facts combined

The fact that Jesus made a PROMISE that he GOES to His Fathers House to prepare a Place for us and He will return to take us there ............and note when Jesus returns in His 2nd advent he is leaving heaven with the saints to come to earth to setup His kingdom on EARTH _ NOT HEAVEN

Yet you have unmitigated gall to berate people when they do not agree with your errors

It be waste of time with your arrogance

 

[seventysevens]

What have happened to them ?Into what kind of body were they resurrected ?

WOW !
You just showed proof that you have no clue what the scripture actually says or means
The scripture CLEARLY says the type of body they have is a walking -talking body that went into the city and met with and visited with MANY people , NOTICE scripture declares that man is appointed to die ONCE ! ONCE ONLY , then comes judgment , Jesus brought those people back to life so they could once again visit MANY people in the cities - They are resurrected people with a resurrected body , scripture does NOT say they died again , does NOT say they are mortal , those people are not refereed to anywhere else , take the FACTS we know are true

They will not die ever again because they have already die once
They have been resurrected with a new body , not one that is decaying from death
Scripture tells us that Jesus took the people who were in Abraham's bosom up into Heaven... the best understanding there is on this is that they are now in heaven with Jesus and will return when the rest of us do

The HARPAZO [caught up TO MEET Jesus in THE AIR] 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 is TIED with THE COMING OF JESUS.

Yes but just not coming down to earth

You still want to force a bogus nonsense view that has NO support whatsoever on the scripture to make it say what you want it to say
Your foolishness is in abundance

You cannot accept that the Marriage of the Lamb to the Bride of Christ takes place at the FATHERS House IN HEAVEN -precisely where Jesus said - we do not make a U Turn as we go STRAIGHT up into Heaven LIKE IT OR NOT !

It is YOU that believes the we do a U Turn and go up into the clouds and u turn back to earth
STILL you cannot prove what you say ...tough for you

 

[keras]

Sad that this simple matter is so hard for you to understand
Jesus says that he prepares a place for us in His Fathers House - that House Jesus is speaking of is in Heaven , Jesus says that He will come to take us back to his fathers house so that we can be where He is -- NO reference to coming to earth - direct reference to going to his fathers house that is located in heaven - very simple , but yet you can't understand something that simple .

What I understand is the plain Words as written.
John 14:1-3 does not mention heaven as the place faithful Christians will be taken to. You have made that up, shame on you.
But obviously, you are unable to see how wrong and unbiblical the rapture really is. Only as the Lord's terrible Day of wrath kicks in, will you and the millions of other deceived people realize how wrong your beliefs were. THAT is what is sad!

 

[Riberra]

WOW !
You just showed proof that you have no clue what the scripture actually says or means
The scripture CLEARLY says the type of body they have is a walking -talking body that went into the city and met with and visited with MANY people , NOTICE scripture declares that man is appointed to die ONCE ! ONCE ONLY , then comes judgment , Jesus brought those people back to life so they could once again visit MANY people in the cities - They are resurrected people with a resurrected body , scripture does NOT say they died again , does NOT say they are mortal , those people are not refereed to anywhere else , take the FACTS we know are true

They will not die ever again because they have already die once
They have been resurrected with a new body , not one that is decaying from death

Lazarus was resurrected by Jesus with the same mortal body ,,,and some years later Lazarus died.

Scripture tells us that Jesus took the people who were in Abraham's bosom up into Heaven... the best understanding there is on this is that they are now in heaven with Jesus and will return when the rest of us do

Those in Abraham's bosom were the Souls of the DEAD BELIEVERS SINCE ADAM ...

---->only few of them were resurrected in a physical body.

Jesus have ascended to Heaven 40 days after His resurrection---->Jesus have ascended to Heaven ALONE...There is no mention in the Bible about what have happened to these FEW Old Testament Saints who have been resurrected in their physical body...


The rest of those in Abraham's bosom have ascended to Heaven in THEIR SOULS STATE when Jesus have gone to liberate the SPIRITS in Prison...

Yes but just not coming down to earth

You still want to force a bogus nonsense view that has NO support whatsoever on the scripture to make it say what you want it to say
Your foolishness is in abundance

Your imagination is very close to a Hallucinatory state [delirium] classical of someone who have been totally brainwashed and have been totally indoctrinated into a cult...
You see things which are not in written the text ...
There is no mention that Jesus will return to Heaven with someone in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

The event mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 is about the RESURRECTION of THOSE WHO DIED IN CHRIST WHO WILL COME OUT OF THEIR GRAVES .....that Jesus will gather to Him with the believers still alive and REMAIN to Reign with Jesus in His Earthly Kingdom who will be ESTABLISHED AT HIS COMING.

You cannot accept that the Marriage of the Lamb to the Bride of Christ takes place at the FATHERS House IN HEAVEN -precisely where Jesus said - we do not make a U Turn as we go STRAIGHT up into Heaven LIKE IT OR NOT !

It is YOU that believes the we do a U Turn and go up into the clouds and u turn back to earth
STILL you cannot prove what you say ...tough for you

When Jesus will DESCEND from Heaven that will be to ESTABLISH HIS KINGDOM ON THE EARTH....Jesus will not going back to Heaven ...that fact terrorize you ...

Again show us where it is mention that Jesus will return to Heaven with someone in
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 ?

 

[R. Hartono]

There is no mention that Jesus will return to Heaven with someone in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

The event mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 is about the RESURRECTION of THOSE WHO DIED IN CHRIST WHO WILL COME OUT OF THEIR GRAVES .....that Jesus will gather to Him with the believers still alive and REMAIN to Reign with Jesus in His Earthly Kingdom who will be ESTABLISHED AT HIS COMING.
When Jesus will DESCEND from Heaven that will be to ESTABLISH HIS KINGDOM ON THE EARTH....Jesus will not going back to Heaven ...that fact terrorize you ...

Again show us where it is mention that Jesus will return to Heaven with someone in1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 ?

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

 

[Riberra]

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.[

Revelation 19:8
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the Saints.

Revelation 16:5-6
5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying, Righteous art thou, who art and who wast, thou Holy One, because thou didst thus judge: 6 For They Poured Out The BLOOD Of The SAINTS and the prophets, and blood hast thou given them to drink: they are worthy.

Revelation 12:11
11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony; and they loved not their life even unto death.

 

[R. Hartono]

Revelation 16:5-6
5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying, Righteous art thou, who art and who wast, thou Holy One, because thou didst thus judge: 6 For They Poured Out The BLOOD Of The SAINTS and the prophets, and blood hast thou given them to drink: they are worthy.

Riberra, so you would dare to be a martyr in the tribulation wouldnt you?

 

[Riberra]

Riberra, so you would dare to be a martyr in the tribulation wouldnt you?

If the tribulation is to happen tomorrow you will be there also...and you will have a choice to do ie: taking the mark and worship the beast to save your life or doing the righteous acts of the Saints...

Revelation 19:8 talk about The Wife wearing fine linen white and pure which is the righteous acts of the Saints....

Revelation 12:11
11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony; and they loved not their life even unto death.

A SAINT is not someone watching TV and praying very hard to be wisked away..while eating potato chips and drinking cola.


If i wish that the Tribulation begin during my lifetime ...NO -NOT AT ALL-. ...contrary to you who pray that the Tribulation begin soon because you think that you will go party in Heaven.

 

[keras]

for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Explain to us what the 'making ready of the Bride' would be.
How do those worthy to wear the white linen clothing gain their righteous deeds and their invitation to the Lord's feast?
Note: that the crowd in heaven of Revelation 19:1-8, are dead people. They are the souls of the martyrs, as described in Revelation 6:9-11, that praise God for finally taking vengeance on their killers. verse 2b

 

[keras]

Riberra, so you would dare to be a martyr in the tribulation wouldnt you?

So you wouldn't?
But provided we Christians maintain our faith in the saving power of the Lord, we have nothing to fear.
Even being murdered, even tortured, is not to be feared; as many of the early Christian martyrs have made it known, they feel no pain, as the Lord puts them under a kind of trance. Beheading too, is a very quick and sure death.

 

[R. Hartono]

So you wouldn't?

If God wants you to become a martyr, you dont hv to wait until the grief tribulation. This only show that you never have a bloody tribulation from the devil like Job did have.

 

[Riberra]

If God wants you to become a martyr, you dont hv to wait until the grief tribulation. This only show that you never have a bloody tribulation from the devil like Job did have.

What makes you think that God will not test every Christians in the last 42 Months that will precede the Coming of Jesus Revelation 13....-what makes you so sure that you are more worthy than the other Christians [-that this test will not be for you-],if you are still alive when this happen ?

The 42 months reign of the Beast [Revelation 13:3-5]will be unavoidable for ALL THOSE WHO WILL BE ALIVE ON THE EARTH DURING THE END TIMES .

Don't wish to hard that the End Times Tribulation begin soon...