The 10 Commandments are done away!

[Leroy D]

This editor is a cruel joke....it is so bad, that one can barely use it. Or, at least I, who can code most anything...can not code it properly.

 

[Leroy D]

We can not learn without an open mind. Without the ability to "learn" what the Creator has placed in front of us and demonstrated through His son we are as lost as everyone else.

I thought you were beyond thought, that you'd thought all you would and the finality of your decision was "eternal". Neither you nor I should be that arrogant. Love ya, Bob, and I mean it.

 

[bugkiller]

This editor is a cruel joke....it is so bad, that one can barely use it. Or, at least I, who can code most anything...can not code it properly.

Awe, shucks. I can't code anything and have very little problem with this site.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

We can not learn without an open mind. Without the ability to "learn" what the Creator has placed in front of us and demonstrated through His son we are as lost as everyone else.

I thought you were beyond thought, that you'd thought all you would and the finality of your decision was "eternal". Neither you nor I should be that arrogant. Love ya, Bob, and I mean it.

Are you really saying learn with on open mind or put out cause we don't accept your position? My bet its the later.

BTW manipulation games don't work well here.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I fellowship with Methodists, in fact I was raised Methodist. I learned the 10 commandments from Methodists which caused me to become an Adventist in adulthood. Yep, I was asked if I believed in the 10 by an Adventist and of course I said yes and he sprung the 4th commandment on me. I bit and for many years remained there until I realized the 10 pertained only to Israel. Jesus new command to love others as He loves us is the Christian's command. That one command is so expansive that only with God's grace can we come close to abiding by it, yet it is so rewarding to do for others. What a great life it is Thank you Jesus.

Claim the promises.

Praise God, no lasting damage was done.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You have not made me uncomfortable. I am replying to you, because you seem to be genuine. I don't mind your opinions or even the opinion of others, but much of what people snipe is so nasty....hard to even come back to read with all of the ego that fills the pages.

So are the rest of the prominent posters from our crowd who you say are anti SDA. If we didn't love you and the MJ people we wouldn't be here. The truth is we love those on our side even more and do our best to show and promote the truth.

The other thing that is so sad is how anti-SDA some of these people are. We are supposed to love our enemies and try to correct our brethren. Glad I'm not a SDA.

I understand what you are saying. I think it a weak argument, but I understand it. JESUS told us...Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: It is a gift, not a death sentence...in the old covenant, maybe it was a death sentence, but under the new, we can live and be justified by Him.

Typical response from your side, whatever you want to claim it to be. Its typically an SDA argument taking the verse entirely out of context besides ignoring the Book of the Law. What is it you really believe?

I believe in the new convenant, just not that ALL of the law is gone, or bad.[/quote ]Then one can't use the Mat 5 argument to prove the law still is in force. It says not one jot or tittle. Its an all or nothing deal event the OT backs up.

This, for instance, is what Zechariah says will happen after Jesus has returned:

Zechariah 14:
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

I need a partner to share the wealth from my new travel agency. We'll make trillions. heheheheehaw!

Even after Jesus comes back, the feast of tabernacles will be required. Not just of the "Jews", but of everyone. Seems a strange thing if all of "that" law is gone.

What happened to Mat 5 and my response passage of LK 24:44?

Oh, he did NOT come to reaffirm it, I'll agree with you there. He came to fulfill the law as no human has ever been able to do and become the only pure/perfect sacrifice for all of mankind (or at least those that accept him). Without His blood (life is in the blood), we would still be lost. You seem to think the law was bad, but Paul in Romans said it was good. It wasn't the law that was bad but the punishment for breaking the law which was "against us". Jesus removed that punishment, because not only could we not obey the Mosaic law or the 10Cs, we can not obey the "new" commandment given by him either. Look at the sniping on this forum, that is not what Christ had in mind, IMHO. Without HIM, his blood, his redemption, his covering for us, the New Covenant is worthless (but we know the new Covenant is life), because you can't follow the 1 new law he gave even if ALL of the old was gone. If you threw EVERYTHING Jesus said away except the "one" "new" commandment, you would not be able to do even that. Don't you see, it is not the law, but the punishment for breaking the that causes eternal death. If we accept him, if we believe, if we have faith and ask for forgiveness of sin, he is 1 John 1:9 faithful and just to forgive our sin, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. You have to ask for forgiveness, but if you think a law doesn't apply to you, then I can guarantee you that you did not ask for forgiveness for breaking it...do you really think you can tell God what applies and doesn't apply to His creation. If I ask for forgiveness for breaking the Sabbath, he will forgive me, but if you break the Sabbath and do not because you "believe" it does not apply....you are not forgiven.

Its obvious you have no concept of what fulfill means.

Who said the law was bad? The only people making such statements are your side of the fence.

No Jesus didn't remove punishment for sin. To say or even suggest Jesus did gives permission to sin which your side of the fence accuses us of promoting. What does the Bible say about who the law is for? Is it for the righteous (Christian) or the wicked? Consult I Tim 1:8-9.

But if you break the Sabbath every week where is your repentance? Are you not really giving lip service? If you don't change your actions there's no repentance. Then you claim there's no salvation (forgiveness) either.

Ok. If Jesus had not come, we would be and there would be no hope. Now, you will say...you are a gentile, so you would not be under the law. Everyone IS under some law, for without law, there is no sin.

Nope! sin was before the law - Rom 5:13. The law was until John LK 16:16. Moses brought the law and Jesus brought grace and truth - JN 1:17. The law was until the promise (Jesus) came - Gal 3:19. Abraham didn't have the law according to Moses - Deut 5:1-3.

You will pooh pooh this, but Christ really didn't need to mention the sabbath in the following verse, but he did. Maybe because it would be "Jews" that were still keeping the old covenant, maybe not, he did not say.

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

You've no idea to what issue Jesus is speaking about. You mistakenly think its about end times.

He told us to do what he did and do what he said. He kept the law, and as you say, it was only to fulfill the law. He gave us an example, he was the perfect lamb, and he will come back as a lion.

Yes Jesus did tell us what to do. Jesus offered a rest the Sabbath couldn't provide. And its only found in Him. (Mat 11:28-30 and John 10).

He told us he was giving us a new commandment, he did not say, I'm giving you a commandment to override my Father's commandments, or a new commandment, because I'm destroying the law.

Jesus didn't say He was giving additional commandments.

If there was no law, then Adam and Eve could not have sinned. Eating the fruit, violated at least 4 of the 10Cs. Abraham followed the commandments, law, judgments, etc.....where did he get those but from the Creator. What commandments did Abraham follow?

Deut 5 and Rom 5 both take careo f and dismiss your argument.

It is just that I have not seen enough proof of the law being annulled, I realize the punishment is annulled if we accept and believe on him, however. I can understand why some of the law is no longer required because of what Jesus did.

You should read and study Jer 31:31-33 and Jesus' testimony found in 3 gospels concerning this very point.

In Christ, still open to some brilliant verse that says all of the "old" law is history, but can be reconciled with what Isaiah says, Zechariah says will happen after Jesus comes back, what Jesus says about the sabbath and the abomination of desolation, etc. With what John says about following the commandments or we are liars, and what Rev. says about entering into the gates.

I point you to the 3 Gospels - Matthew, Mark and Luke where you find the testimony of Jesus saying the NC is the current covenant. Of course you must understand Jer 31:31-33.

Probably should post no more, but I love you guys too much!

Really?

bugkiller

 

[SayaOtonashi]

I appreciate you so much....thank you.

Why if you don't mind me asking

 

[Leroy D]

Why if you don't mind me asking

Because what you posted makes the point that the gentiles were judged too. They didn't have the Mosaic law and were not subject to it, but they were still under "some" law and it must have been what Abraham, Noah, and Adam were subject. It must have been a higher law, one that everyone should know, one that can be written on the heart.

I do have one issue with that reasoning though, and that is the Sabbath. The gentiles could not have known that the Sabbath was important, they might have known they needed to rest and keep a day holy, but it was unlikely they would have chosen the seventh day. Some gentiles could have seen the Hebrews keeping the Sabbath, but there must have been many who didn't even know the Hebrews existed.

 

[Leroy D]

However, we do have the "law" and I'm not talking Mosaic law, we do know. We are not ignorant unless we choose to be.

 

[Bob S]

Because what you posted makes the point that the gentiles were judged too. They didn't have the Mosaic law and were not subject to it, but they were still under "some" law and it must have been what Abraham, Noah, and Adam were subject. It must have been a higher law, one that everyone should know, one that can be written on the heart.

I do have one issue with that reasoning though, and that is the Sabbath. The gentiles could not have known that the Sabbath was important, they might have known they needed to rest and keep a day holy, but it was unlikely they would have chosen the seventh day. Some gentiles could have seen the Hebrews keeping the Sabbath, but there must have been many who didn't even know the Hebrews existed.

Leroy, why are you so hung up on the Sabbath? Have you not read all the posts that deal with the truth of the Sabbath? Christians are not under the laws that governed Israel. We have the Holy Spirit as our guide not the 10 commandments. There are hundreds of ways we can harm our fellow man not just nine. The Sabbath command was a ritual command that didn't deal with how we treat God and our fellow man. Think about it my friend. I don't mean to be harsh, just trying to get the point across to all those who feel they must do something to be saved.

 

[BABerean2]

In Galatians chapter 4 the Apostle Paul compares the Sinai covenant to bondage and tells us to cast it out.

Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. (Here the Apostle says Mount Sinai is in Arabia and compares it to bondage.)

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
(We are children of the New Jerusalem, which is now in heaven Hebrews 11:16. )

Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
(This promise is found in Galatians 3:29.)

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
(Here Paul is telling us to cast out the Sinai covenant of bondage.)

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
(We are children of the New Covenant.)


Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

.

 

[Leroy D]

Leroy, why are you so hung up on the Sabbath? Have you not read all the posts that deal with the truth of the Sabbath? Christians are not under the laws that governed Israel. We have the Holy Spirit as our guide not the 10 commandments. There are hundreds of ways we can harm our fellow man not just nine. The Sabbath command was a ritual command that didn't deal with how we treat God and our fellow man. Think about it my friend. I don't mean to be harsh, just trying to get the point across to all those who feel they must do something to be saved.

That wasn't harsh at all Bob. The 10Cs are pretty easy to understand. Any one reading them, even a child, will say...I can do that. Now they may or may not be able to do that, but they can "try". They can ask for forgiveness when they fail.

Jesus says multiple times in the NT, they claimed to know me and I never knew them. Jesus said there was a straight gate that leads to salvation and a wide gate that leads to destruction. John says if we claim to know him and keep not his commandments (not one, but multiple), then we are liars.

In Rev, it says, "come out of her my people". What are they supposed to come out from? From the lies of the beast, the "church". One particular church, the "self proclaimed" mother church which changed the day of worship because it was their "mark" to be able to do that. There is a mark of destruction and it is on the hand or the forehead (what we do (works), what we believe). John also said, faith without works is dead.

Because I can not understand everything, I cling to the Word and what my small mind can comprehend. You say the 10Cs were ONLY for the Hebrews, but you can not prove that. I will agree that the Mosaic law was only for the Hebrews, which included a higher law, the 10Cs. Adam and Cain, Noah, Abraham were under law (and it was not Mosaic) or they could not have committed sin. Every gentile ever born was under some "law". Exactly what law were they under? I must conclude it is a higher law, a universal law, a perfect law.

No, I have not read all the posts that deal with the "truth" of the Sabbath. Who really knows the "truth" except the Creator and His Son. If "His" people were required to do something then that is what He desired of His people. Why would He (who is the same yesterday, today and forever) change? Would he not want His people, even those grafted in, to worship him and keep the day He set apart holy?

The "new" covenant was conceived before the earth was ever created. It was always his plan to bring his son as the perfect flawless lamb that can atone for the sins of the world...the sins which we continue to do. We refuse to accept his Word and find ways to skirt around them.

Because I believe that basically everything I've ever been told is a lie, it is hard to find the "truth". If the Creator said it, or Jesus said it then I believe it. Matt, Mark, Luke and John were pretty easy to understand, Paul not so much.

I guess the deal is that God said it....and if He is a liar, I will never find the truth.

 

[Leroy D]

You know, the Mosaic law also included circumcision. That was a covenant between the Creator and Abraham but it was included in the Mosaic law....the Mosaic law was a combination of laws/covenants....not things just for the Israelites.

Now one will say...well of course, it was included, he was their forefather. And I will say...and when Cain killed Abel, he knew it was wrong...it was against the law, and Adam was their forefather and bingo, we have the 10Cs.

I know I am simple minded, but we are supposed to be as children.

So, I guess the question is this, "If circumcision and the 10Cs were "included" in the Mosaic law and the entire Mosaic Law has been repealed as many say it was, then we can conclude that the 10Cs are gone as well?" If it was around before the Mosaic Law, then can we conclude that it is gone just because the Mosaic law is "gone".

Some more food for thought. The supposed state of Texas had many towns/counties that had laws against selling alchohol on Sunday which were called I believe "blue" laws. Now, they had many more laws about many more things, but they repealed those laws in many counties. They didn't repeal the whole law....just the ones related to the "blue" laws.

 

[BABerean2]

You know, the Mosaic law also included circumcision. That was a covenant between the Creator and Abraham but it was included in the Mosaic law....the Mosaic law was a combination of laws/covenants....not things just for the Israelites.

Now one will say...well of course, it was included, he was their forefather. And I will say...and when Cain killed Abel, he knew it was wrong...it was against the law, and Adam was their forefather and bingo, we have the 10Cs.

I know I am simple minded, but we are supposed to be as children.

So, I guess the question is this, "If circumcision and the 10Cs were "included" in the Mosaic law and the entire Mosaic Law has been repealed as many say it was, then we can conclude that the 10Cs are gone as well?" If it was around before the Mosaic Law, then can we conclude that it is gone just because the Mosaic law is "gone".

Some more food for thought. The supposed state of Texas had many towns/counties that had laws against selling alchohol on Sunday which were called I believe "blue" laws. Now, they had many more laws about many more things, but they repealed those laws in many counties. They didn't repeal the whole law....just the ones related to the "blue" laws.

We are not under a lesser law. We are under a higher law.

The Sinai law...

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:


The Law of Christ...

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
.

 

[Leroy D]

We are not under a lesser law. We are under a higher law..

One that none of us can keep. Jesus explained to everyone what his Father really meant. He didn't cast his Fathers law away, he magnified it. He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it.

He was saying you think you know what the law is and are keeping it, but this is what my Father really wanted of you. Not committing adultery isn't that hard, but the way Jesus said it is pretty hard. Not murdering someone is pretty easy, but not getting angry at your brother is much harder.

The religious leaders of that day would have said they were "doing" the law but Love means more. Love for God and others.

 

[BABerean2]

One that none of us can keep. Jesus explained to everyone what his Father really meant. He didn't cast his Fathers law away, he magnified it. He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it.

Perhaps he was saying you think you know what the law is and are keeping it, but this is what my Father really wants of you. Not committing adultery isn't that hard, but the way Jesus said it is pretty hard. Not murdering someone is pretty easy, but not getting angry at your brother is much harder.

He did say that our righteousness must exceed that of the religious leaders of that day so magnification of his Father's law seems more likely.

The difference in the New Covenant would be the indwelling of the Spirit, which gives us an advantage in our battle with sin.

2Co_3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

.

 

[Der Alte]

For something that was supposedly done away with the ten commandments sure do get quoted a lot in the NT.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, [#1] Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, [#7] Do not commit adultery, [#6] Do not kill, [#8] Do not steal, [#9] Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, [#5]Honour thy father and mother.

Eph 6:2 [#5] Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise; )

Rom 1:28-31
(28) And even as they [#1] did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
(29) Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, [#10] covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, [#6] murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
(30) Backbiters, [#1] haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, [#5] disobedient to parents,
(31) Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

2Ti 3:1-4
(1) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
(2) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, [#10] covetous, boasters, proud, [#3] blasphemers, [#5] disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
(3) Without natural affection, trucebreakers, [#9] false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
(4) Traitors, heady, highminded, [#1] lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Gal 5:19-21
(19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; [#7] Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
(20) [#2] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
(21) [#10] Envyings, [#6] murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1Co 6:9-10
(9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor [#2] idolaters, nor [#7] adulterers, [#7] nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
(10) Nor [#8] thieves, nor [#10] covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.​

 

[Sophrosyne]

For something that was supposedly done away with the ten commandments sure do get quoted a lot in the NT.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, [#1] Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, [#7] Do not commit adultery, [#6] Do not kill, [#8] Do not steal, [#9] Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, [#5]Honour thy father and mother.

Eph 6:2 [#5] Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise; )

Rom 1:28-31
(28) And even as they [#1] did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
(29) Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, [#10] covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, [#6] murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
(30) Backbiters, [#1] haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, [#5] disobedient to parents,
(31) Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

2Ti 3:1-4
(1) This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
(2) For men shall be lovers of their own selves, [#10] covetous, boasters, proud, [#3] blasphemers, [#5] disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
(3) Without natural affection, trucebreakers, [#9] false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
(4) Traitors, heady, highminded, [#1] lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Gal 5:19-21
(19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; [#7] Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
(20) [#2] Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
(21) [#10] Envyings, [#6] murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

1Co 6:9-10
(9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor [#2] idolaters, nor [#7] adulterers, [#7] nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
(10) Nor [#8] thieves, nor [#10] covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.​

I wouldn't say they are done away with.... but not relevant to Christians even though 9 are mentioned there is ONE commandment COMPLETELY missing which makes the idea of 10... only 9.
So which is it either the 10 are not part of Christianity or the 9 are part and one isn't?

 

[bugkiller]

However, we do have the "law" and I'm not talking Mosaic law, we do know. We are not ignorant unless we choose to be.

No we don't have the "law" as Christians. The way you post it the word the has no meaning. You're posting about law in general. Here in this forum we talk about the law. You need confusion to bring it home to the law. This is trying to sneak in the back door when no one is watching.

bugkiller

 

[Sophrosyne]

No we don't have the "law" as Christians. The way you post it the word the has no meaning. You're posting about law in general. Here in this forum we talk about the law. You need confusion to bring it home to the law. This I trying to sneak in the back door when no one is watching.

bugkiller

yes, we have people using vagueness when it suits them and then claiming the specific when it suits them using vagueness as their proof. It is like claiming red is a color and blue is a color and then saying the sky is red most of the time and then only accepting pictures of the sky at the time of day it is red.