~That which is perfect~

Giver said:

Can’t people see that when trying to prove a belief using the written Word of God, it becomes nothing but futile?

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Nope, can't see that. Perhaps this is where "to the pure, all things are pure" comes into play? Or better yet, examining the log in our own eye, rather than the speck in our Brother's

Using Scripture to correct ourselves works great! Interfering into another? Not so much.

Dr.Strangelove said:

But finding others who share DocBots interpretations, especially respected orthodox scholars, makes DocBot feel he has the correct interpretation of the verses and also feels unity with Brethren

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This is reasonable, but where does the Holy Spirit enter? And when we have or hear the Spirit, how do we know? A major factor in answering this is the idea of community, within the Church. That's something you do not have, and I understand perfectly if you've been unable to find anything being preached from a pulpit that can compare w/ quality study materials.

But Church participation is supposed to be relationship, whereby you can use one another as a "sounding board" for your ideas - IN PERSON. Our Faith is nothing w/o the human element, contact, and yes even touch. Our own studies are follow-up to that.

DISCIPLESHIP

# 5 Alive?

Yarddog said:

4 He is the ROCK, his works are PERFECT, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

(I love those lines)

"We" find perfection in Christ. It is not our perfection but His.

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You rang? [/Lurch] THIS is how i came to the Faith! I approached the Bible to justify myself, and find some loophole excusing me from what I knew G-d expected of me but I could not do.

Instead I found Him to be perfect, and fell in Love.

Yarddog said:

I remember a number of years ago God gave me a vision, The Books were opened and when the names of God's children are looked up, the picture beside our name will be that of Jesus Christ. Pretty comforting.

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You go dawg!

YouTube - WHAT SIN


Thanks for sharing that. Can this turn into a homesick thread yet?

Paging Doc bot: you never addressed my post #299? I thought it was pretty good, and might be something you could relate to.

sunlover1 said:

Now this makes perfect sense.
And nothing else fits the bill.
AND no scripture is broken...

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Ruh roh! We're agreeing w/ the RCC? What will happen next? What color is the moon? And does this mean they give us Communion?

Dr.Strangelove said:

Sunlover does not fully know what she needs to know for her walk?

ERROR_PATCH_REQUIRED

DocBot gives regrets.

DocBot knows what he must do for the rest of His life thanks to Christ righteousnes. DocBot is complete once coupled with Christs perfect righteousnes and perfect love.

**sigh** Circuits melting with warmth >>>

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This deserves a response. First, you've found something! Remember those cheesy old bumper stickers "I found it?" No? Anyway ...

Congrats! And the "it" is the fulfillment of G-d's Promise.

IF that were completely fulfilled, Jews would all believe in Jesus. See what I'm getting at? Goes together w/ my post #299.

You do have a point: we have the mind of Christ, he that is Spiritual knows all things, we have all things that pertain to life and godliness ... exceeding great and precious promises! None of this does anything to move us away from any of the gifts of the Spirit. If anything, ALL of this involves said gifts! Yet gifts are not what we are to seek, but the kingdom. We are pilgrims, just passing through, and subjected to Hope ...

ya gotta get ALL these loose ends to come together! Keep at it man

Ih8s8n said:

Dr.Strangelove: Since you made a similar comment about me a couple of days ago on your thread that has been shut down, I'll assume, with a fair amount of confidence, that this comment was made about me as well. Not that it's really any of your business, but I'll fill you in on a thing or two...

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sunlover1 said:

Paul said "Now i know in part"
Paul didn't fully know what he needed for his walk?
again no logic.

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Was talking about the Corinthians.

Paul knew everything he needed to. Grew up from childish things.

Query repeat ....what are childish things?

razeontherock said:

This is reasonable, but where does the Holy Spirit enter? And when we have or hear the Spirit, how do we know? A major factor in answering this is the idea of community, within the Church. That's something you do not have, and I understand perfectly if you've been unable to find anything being preached from a pulpit that can compare w/ quality study materials.

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Does not compute. Are you saying you need other PEOPLE to tell you that you have or 'hear' the Holy Spirit?

razeontherock said:

But Church participation is supposed to be relationship, whereby you can use one another as a "sounding board" for your ideas - IN PERSON. Our Faith is nothing w/o the human element, contact, and yes even touch. Our own studies are follow-up to that.

DISCIPLESHIP

# 5 Alive?

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Number 5 understands 'discipleship' to be communitarian leadership training in order to 'change' Christians from simple Bible belief to 'concensus' regarding non-Gospel social and ECUMENIST 'conversation'.

DocBot does not require what you consider to be 'discipelship'. But I can see clearly the effects of it within yourself.Regarding post #229. Raze admits perfect has come. No need to discuss more. If you have specific questions>>please upload.

razeontherock said:

You do have a point: we have the mind of Christ, he that is Spiritual knows all things, we have all things that pertain to life and godliness ... exceeding great and precious promises! None of this does anything to move us away from any of the gifts of the Spirit. If anything, ALL of this involves said gifts! Yet gifts are not what we are to seek, but the kingdom. We are pilgrims, just passing through, and subjected to Hope ...

ya gotta get ALL these loose ends to come together! Keep at it man

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Will DocBot have all loose ends tied when his syntax changes from English too........unintelligable waffle??

sunlover1 said:

Paul had put away spiritual manifestations yet encouraged the Corinthians to covet prophecy...

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Of course. Prophecy is teaching the revealed Word of God. It's teaching scripture.

Original Word: προφητεία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: prophéteia
Phonetic Spelling: (prof-ay-ti'-ah)
Short Definition: prophecy
Definition: prophecy, prophesying; the gift of communicating and enforcing revealed truth.

Clarke's Commentary said:

Whether prophecy - That prophecy, in the New Testament, often means the gift of exhorting, preaching, or of expounding the Scriptures, is evident from many places in the Gospels, Acts, and St. Paul's Epistles

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sunlover1 said:

Paul put away tongues yet He says He thanks God that he speaks
in tongues more than the rest of them...
Paul sings in tongues as well..
sure thang.

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Yes Paul speaks many foreign languages. And sings with them too.

Ya know...this whole thread is pretty redundant really. The things you think Paul is telling the Corinthians to do, he's not...and even those things he's telling those people not to do, are not the same things you think they are. The undisputed and oft repeated message of Pauls letter to Corinth was to abide in Faith, Hope, Charity.....LOVE. He rebukes them over their pagan traditions and tells them to MOVE ON and GROW UP into those things

You'd think people would just LOOK out in the world to see if miracles are being summoned by Christians, just to check if there might be a possibility that they have got a slightly skewed take on that particular book of the New Testament. Do you think there might be a chance?

The very fact that Christians do NOT have the ability to instantly heal brethren using 'gifts', make the blind see, raise the dead, heal whole towns of people like the 1st Century Apostles did...well.....its a giveaway.

But go ahead and continue your self-edification. Good luck.

Just show me where Jesus talks gibberish.

sunlover1 said:

No, he's speaking in unknown tongues. which has been shown to you
many times by much greater men than I
LOL

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You're right, it doesn't make a lick of sense to interpret 1st Corinthans to mean Paul was chiding them for tongues (so called gibberish) and then he immediately changes the meaning of the word to say he thanks God he speaks tongues (foreign languages) more than they.

He's speaking about one and the same.

Dr.Strangelove said:

Of course. Prophecy is teaching the revealed Word of God. It's teaching scripture.

Original Word: προφητεία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: prophéteia
Phonetic Spelling: (prof-ay-ti'-ah)
Short Definition: prophecy
Definition: prophecy, prophesying; the gift of communicating and enforcing revealed truth.





Yes Paul speaks many foreign languages. And sings with them too.

Ya know...this whole thread is pretty redundant really. The things you think Paul is telling the Corinthians to do, he's not...and even those things he's telling those people not to do, are not the same things you think they are. The undisputed and oft repeated message of Pauls letter to Corinth was to abide in Faith, Hope, Charity.....LOVE. He rebukes them over their pagan traditions and tells them to MOVE ON and GROW UP into those things

You'd think people would just LOOK out in the world to see if miracles are being summoned by Christians, just to check if there might be a possibility that they have got a slightly skewed take on that particular book of the New Testament. Do you think there might be a chance?

The very fact that Christians do NOT have the ability to instantly heal brethren using 'gifts', make the blind see, raise the dead, heal whole towns of people like the 1st Century Apostles did...well.....its a giveaway.

But go ahead and continue your self-edification. Good luck.

Just show me where Jesus talks gibberish.

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Of course. Prophecy is teaching the revealed Word of God. It's teaching scripture.

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Problem is that teaching and prophecy are dichotomised gifts. Doesnt work. They are distinct. Prophecy is a BIT MORE supernatural then just teaching . . . hence "the secrets of his heart are revealed and he falls on his face declaring God is amongst you." The "secrets of the heart" is the contents of the prophecy . . . not exegesis of scripture.
Further, every bit of prophecy in Acts has NOTHING to do with exegeting Scripture . . . Agabus foretells a coming famine, then he speaks about the one "wearing this belt" being taken in chains . . . the women warn people not to go places . . . NOT ONE BIT IS TEACHING THE REVEALED WORD OF GOD. Your position isnt informed as to the case studies in Scripture as to what prophecy IS.

Yes Paul speaks many foreign languages

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Again, cant be foreign languages, no one understands them . . . and even if you say "ya, no one present" . . . it still doesnt work. Why would one speak in foreign languages for the purpose of communicating the Gospel to people IN THAT LANGUAGE . . . WHEN THEY ARENT EVEN PRESENT, cuz no one understands. Not consistent in action bro. Why is a GIFT of INTERPRETATION NEEDED

NEEDED

to interpret it? If it is a foreign language, meant for people of that language, then why a SPECIAL GIFT OF INTERPRETATION needed? The people who know the language dont need it . . . right? They can just interpret w/o a gift of interpretation . . . yet Paul says AN INTERPRETATION IS NEEDED PER THE GIFT OF THE SPIRIT OF INTERPRETATION. Again not consistent.

He rebukes them over their pagan traditions and tells them to MOVE ON and GROW UP into those things

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His comment about childish and grown things is NOT NEGATIVE. It is not a denouncement. He is speaking in a parallel about progress in growth and that the fullness of that growth doesnt happen until the perfect comes . . . HE SEES HIMSELF AS PART OF THE CHILDISH AGE. Dont make parallels mean things they are not supposed to.

Rebuke huh? Sure, that makes HUGE sense when he tells them to pursue the things and not to disallow them

You'd think people would just LOOK out in the world to see if miracles are being summoned by Christians, just to check if there might be a possibility that they have got a slightly skewed take on that particular book of the New Testament. Do you think there might be a chance?

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LOL, have u read any of the accounts of what is happening world wide in the missions fields? I have a man in my church WHO WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD BRO . . . my daughter WAS blind in her right eye, and now she is seeing, we have people who ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DEAD FROM CANCER who are now TOTALLY cancer free . . . arthritics healed, paralyzed tongues now speaking, blind eyes now seeing . . .

sorry, I got living breathing proof of the current manifestations of the power of God IN A CHURCH WITH SOUND DOCTRINE.

The very fact that Christians do NOT have the ability to instantly heal brethren using 'gifts', make the blind see, raise the dead, heal whole towns of people like the 1st Century Apostles did...well.....its a giveaway.

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Uh no it is not, it is ur failure to read the text and work out a proper systematic.

The text says the manifestations are given "as the Spirit wills" . . . so if the Spirit doesnt want to, it doesnt happen. This means that the gifts are NOT RESIDENTIAL. IOW, one doesnt just activate them. Paul himself didnt heal everyone, trophimus, timothy, even himself.
The healthy systematic is that God is sovereign and works to His will for His glory, and if a gifting doesnt suit that in the moment, it doesnt happen. So your whole theory about hospitals collapses. They arent according to the person.

Just show me where Jesus talks gibberish

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???

why would He need to?

Tongues is for the fostering of the person's intimacy with God . . . Jesus had no need for this, so no need for tongues. So again, your statment falls to the ground. Sorry

Dr.Strangelove said:

DocBot feels that which is perfect is Christs righteousness that perfects His followers.

Seems the 'Holiness Movement' believe that which is perfect is "us". Like, really "us".

The Holiness movement
is an American off-shoot of Methodism which generally follows the Arminian doctrinal teachings of John Wesley. Holiness Christians left Methodism in the 19th and early 20th centuries because they felt that mainstream Methodism was failing to emphasize Wesleyan teachings on sanctification, particularly the experience of Christian Perfection,


The Holiness Movement - sound doctrine?
http://www.christianforums.com/t7525671/#post56488542

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Christ's righteousness cant be the meaning of the Corinthian passage at all.

There was someone else I was to respond to and dont remember . . . if ur still around would u refresh my mem?: thnks

sunlover1 said:

This doesn't say what you say LOL

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Of course it does. ROFL. Are you actually saying that prophet never means teacher in the NT?

sunlover1 said:

No, he's speaking in unknown tongues. which has been shown to you
many times by much greater men than I LOL

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Even with the abundance of greater men than you, none of them have shown how this is GIBBERISH. Even if the text did say unknown tongue WHICH IT DOESNT......check the Greek...bible study is FUN!......it would still mean unknown to those listening at the time. FAIL! and LOLZ!

sunlover1 said:

Since I have operated in most of those gifts
Why would I believe your interpretation?
Believe you over my own eyes , no.

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You've prayed for people who may or may not have eventually healed. Fantastic. Keep going. This is not a supernatural gift. You've spoken gibberish. Anyone can do that. My 2 year old daughter does it all the time...eezy peezy. Not a gift (and not biblical). When was the last time you interpreted 'tongues'? Did you write it down. I hope so because it was direct from God no?

Tell us about foretelling the future. What divine revelation have you had recently from God. Anything important for the BODY. Or is it only self edifying? Word of Knowledge? Anything to add to scripture? Any miracles you have performed? Have you been on the TV news?

Don't believe MY interpretation, believe every single orthodox Christian scholar who ever walked the Earth.

Don't forget, ones eyes can be deceived..it's partly due to ones brain being deceived...as ones eyes see's what ones brain WANTS TO.

sunlover1 said:

Any whole towns of folks who love?
Must be a travesty this love thang?

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You'll have to run this one by me again. I refuse to believe in supernatural healing gifts of men coz I dont see whole towns being healed like happened in 1st century.....which means??....I'm not allowed to believe in love because we don't have whole towns that love? (like in the 1st century)????

I still dont get the argument. Please clarify. And also clarify if love is a fruit or a gift.

Doc.

Ok, well beyond arguing the legitimacy,my situation is just one of practicality perhaps. I just don't think it's for me. & I have witnessed it good & bad, & tried it myself for years.
Maybe part of it has to do with expectations. My basic frame of reference is gratitude, so I'm not looking for any extras to begin with. Can't realy comfortably process the supernatural. When I did try it, successes just stimulated an appetite that that didn't feel natural & was addictive feeling (to me) as well.

It's a whole new layer of complexity to my life which I already have my hands pretty full with trying to deal with and understand.

There's some frontiers in my Christianity that need more exploration, but for now some of it will have to stay that way. I'm cool. It's all good.

Mixolydian said:

You're right, it doesn't make a lick of sense to interpret 1st Corinthans to mean Paul was chiding them for tongues (so called gibberish) and then he immediately changes the meaning of the word to say he thanks God he speaks tongues (foreign languages) more than they.

He's speaking about one and the same.

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Ya he's speaking about one and the same. Foreign languages.

The chiding was for the Corinthians using foreign languages without an interpreter.

Paul never talked about gibberish...EVER.

Do you at least acknowledge that the gift of tongues at Pentacost was the Holy Spirt working to allow those present to hear the Gospel in their own Earthly language...and had nothing to do with gibberish?