~That which is perfect~

[Ih8s8n]

Query>> Is Predestination the same as OSAS?

Dr.Strangelove: No, it is not. Not even close. If, for example, I board a train in New York that is "predestined" to arrive at some point in time in California, that does not mean that I cannot get off of the train at some junction along the way. Similarly, we need to "abide in Christ". He that endures to the end shall be saved.

I won't even bother to comment on your Gill quote, except to say this...

Finding someone else who agrees with your erroneous viewpoint does not in any way take away from the written, revealed Word of God.

Finally, your continued childishness in regards to your alter ego, "docbot", speaks for itself.

Take care.

P.S. Your smug-looking icon speaks volumes about you as well. In fact, it's hardly worthy of a self-proclaimed "fruit inspector".

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Finding someone else who agrees with your erroneous viewpoint does not in any way take away from the written, revealed Word of God.

Agreement.

But finding others who share DocBots interpretations, especially respected orthodox scholars, makes DocBot feel he has the correct interpretation of the verses and also feels unity with Brethren,

13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.​

R.O.F.L. >>> DocBot has detected word 'perfect' again.

Circuits overloading

>End

 

[child of Jesus]

child of Jesus (self-censored) deleted post because:

1) forgot promise to not engage on this thread

2) succumbed to temptation to repay evil with evil > coJ> Metanoia

 

[Giver]

Can’t people see that when trying to prove a belief using the written Word of God, it becomes nothing but futile?

When some one does not like what is written they find a way to make it not apply to him or her. There are many tools used to twist the Word to make it follow whatever people want it to say.

I would like to share some of the tools people use to twist the written Word of God.

The tool often used is the Greek Word.
I believe the Holy Spirit was much involved with the people that translated the Greek scripture to the English version. I also believe they understood the Greek as well or better than the people who try to make people believe the English version is not accurate.

What a con and an elitist act it is to use a study of a language to try and convince others he or she is right because they have some special knowledge of a language.

Hyperbole is also used a lot. Jesus did not mean that it is just an exaggeration. Then people will go on and tell one what he really meant. Tell me how does anyone know unless Jesus told him or her? If Jesus told them he will tell us also right?

Metaphorically Is used much the same way as hyperbole, and the people who use this tool are of course the experts who can tell one just what Jesus meant. Wow they must be really intelligent, like us simple people can’t read, and understand.

Another tool often used is that part of the written Word is not talking to us. People don’t like what a letter is saying, so then if it is not speaking to them it can be ignored. They want us to believe that the bible is like our history books.

Separating our spirit from our bodies, as if one is not part of the other. This tool is used to make our actions not accountable. Our spirit don’t sin so only the body is held accountable. What is so unbelievable is many people buy into that garbage.

After all these tools have been exposed as such, then the last tool is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the twisting tools.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

hopefully you can firmly rebuke and chastise me if i'm wrong! public ridicule would be nice too. i like that!

thanks for your super-tough language - i like someone who is solid on what they believe and say (even if they are WRONG)

DocBot Initiating Prediction calculations >>>>

DocBot would like to inform lifeform : child of Jesus : that some members are in a hurry and are just leaving out of the door and may not respond for some time....

......if ever.

>End.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Can’t people see that when trying to prove a belief using the written Word of God, it becomes nothing but futile?

Does not compute.

Please advise alternative method.

>End

 

[sunlover1]

Searching Greek Database:

Διώκετε (Pursue) // ἀγάπην (Love) // δὲ (Yet // ζηλοῦτε (Desire earnestly) // πνευματικά (Spiritual) // μᾶλλον (Especially) // προφητεύητε (Prophecy)

[/color][/size]Earnestly desire the spiritual, especially prophecy.

Altering query. Why can't people with the 'gift of healing' exceed THAT which Jesus did.

What have you done that exceeds 'that' which Jesus did?

Query >>

If He made us Perfect. Has that perfect come?

1)Yes
2)No
3)Dont know

Please respond. (with explanation)

No, I don't like your traps, this isn't a war Dr Strangelove.

And I'm not the enemy

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

What have you done that exceeds 'that' which Jesus did?

Example: Jesus brought truth to those risiding in the Middle East.

DocBot has posted truth on internet that people all round the world have access to, therefore exceeding that which Jesus did.

Possible explanation for "Exceed that"

No, I don't like your traps, this isn't a war Dr Strangelove.

And I'm not the enemy

DocBot does not believe Sunlover is enemy in this spiritual war:

1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:​

......but maybe having some difficulties on high seas.

 

[Yarddog]

Is not referring to the Bible.

 

[sunlover1]

Hi Yarddog.
I love your new avatar.

When I started this thread I assumed most people thought it
was the Bible but have found that there are many different ideas.
One being that that which is perfect is ... "us".

Your thoughts are welcome but if you were just passing through that's
cool as well.. Drive bys are welcome lol

 

[sunlover1]

Can’t people see that when trying to prove a belief using the written Word of God, it becomes nothing but futile?

Sometimes it takes me a long time to catch on to little things like that

When some one does not like what is written they find a way to make it not apply to him or her. There are many tools used to twist the Word to make it follow whatever people want it to say.

It's easier to just go with what is written and adjust US to His Word rather than adjust
His Word to "US".

I would like to share some of the tools people use to twist the written Word of God.

The tool often used is the Greek Word.
I believe the Holy Spirit was much involved with the people that translated the Greek scripture to the English version. I also believe they understood the Greek as well or better than the people who try to make people believe the English version is not accurate.

What a con and an elitist act it is to use a study of a language to try and convince others he or she is right because they have some special knowledge of a language.

Hyperbole is also used a lot. Jesus did not mean that it is just an exaggeration. Then people will go on and tell one what he really meant. Tell me how does anyone know unless Jesus told him or her? If Jesus told them he will tell us also right?

Metaphorically Is used much the same way as hyperbole, and the people who use this tool are of course the experts who can tell one just what Jesus meant. Wow they must be really intelligent, like us simple people can’t read, and understand.

Another tool often used is that part of the written Word is not talking to us. People don’t like what a letter is saying, so then if it is not speaking to them it can be ignored. They want us to believe that the bible is like our history books.

Separating our spirit from our bodies, as if one is not part of the other. This tool is used to make our actions not accountable. Our spirit don’t sin so only the body is held accountable. What is so unbelievable is many people buy into that garbage.

I see all of these devices used daily.

After all these tools have been exposed as such, then the last tool is to denigrate, defame, malign, and vilify the person who has exposed the twisting tools.

[/QUOTE]
Hopefully someone will look at what you've posted and examine their heart.
I know it has caused me to think back on some of my own habits.
Thanks Giver.
God bless you.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Hi Yarddog.
I love your new avatar.

When I started this thread I assumed most people thought it
was the Bible but have found that there are many different ideas.
One being that that which is perfect is ... "us".

Your thoughts are welcome but if you were just passing through that's
cool as well.. Drive bys are welcome lol

DocBot feels that which is perfect is Christs righteousness that perfects His followers.

Seems the 'Holiness Movement' believe that which is perfect is "us". Like, really "us".

The Holiness movement
is an American off-shoot of Methodism which generally follows the Arminian doctrinal teachings of John Wesley. Holiness Christians left Methodism in the 19th and early 20th centuries because they felt that mainstream Methodism was failing to emphasize Wesleyan teachings on sanctification, particularly the experience of Christian Perfection,


The Holiness Movement - sound doctrine?
http://www.christianforums.com/t7525671/#post56488542

 

[Yarddog]

Hi Yarddog.
I love your new avatar.

Thanks, it was taken in my younger days. I've put on a lot of weight since.

When I started this thread I assumed most people thought it
was the Bible but have found that there are many different ideas.
One being that that which is perfect is ... "us".

That which is perfect is God the Father, the Son, and Spirit.
Deut. 32:
3 I will proclaim the name of the LORD. Oh, praise the greatness of our God!

4 He is the ROCK, his works are PERFECT, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

(I love those lines)

"We" find perfection in Christ. It is not our perfection but His.

I remember a number of years ago God gave me a vision, The Books were opened and when the names of God's children are looked up, the picture beside our name will be that of Jesus Christ. Pretty comforting.

In a prophetic sense, the perfect will come when Jesus returns. All will pass away

1 Cor. 11:
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

Many things will not be needed when Jesus returns. Gifts if Spirit will pass away when Jesus returns and all things are perfected. We will not need prophesy, healing, tongues, etc... because all will be perfect. We will be with God.

Praise our holy Father.

Your thoughts are welcome but if you were just passing through that's
cool as well.. Drive bys are welcome lol

Ohhh, drive by's. Be careful what you say to a dog.

 

[sunlover1]

DocBot feels that which is perfect is Christs righteousness that perfects His followers.

Christs Righteousness is that which is perfect?

Let's see how it fits:

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease;
where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge,
it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when Christ's righteousness comes, what is in part disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child.
When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror;
but then, when Christ's righteousness comes, we shall see face to face.
Now I know in part; but when Christ's righteousness appears,
then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Sorry but it makes no sense.What does Christ's righteousness have
to do with knowing fully?
You're "righteous" through Christ,
not "all knowing"
And you are obviously not all knowing
even you "know" that.

 

[sunlover1]

Thanks, it was taken in my younger days. I've put on a lot of weight since.

You're worrying me Yarddog lol.
I thought it was a robot thing
now it's an animal thing too.
Maybe it's a "guy" thang?

That which is perfect is God the Father, the Son, and Spirit.
Deut. 32:
3 I will proclaim the name of the LORD. Oh, praise the greatness of our God!

4 He is the ROCK, his works are PERFECT, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

(I love those lines)

"We" find perfection in Christ. It is not our perfection but His.

Agree so far... (cant' argue with Scripture )

I remember a number of years ago God gave me a vision, The Books were opened and when the names of God's children are looked up, the picture beside our name will be that of Jesus Christ. Pretty comforting.

Now that is way cool !

Has anyone called you gnostic lately btw?
(Just wondering, that's what they call me
if i say something like that lol)

In a prophetic sense, the perfect will come when Jesus returns. All will pass away

1 Cor. 11:
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

Many things will not be needed when Jesus returns. Gifts if Spirit will pass away when Jesus returns and all things are perfected. We will not need prophesy, healing, tongues, etc... because all will be perfect. We will be with God.

Praise our holy Father.

Now this makes perfect sense.
And nothing else fits the bill.
AND no scripture is broken...

Ohhh, drive by's. Be careful what you say to a dog.

Car chasing is no place for yard dogs.
i know...

 

[sunlover1]

I can't believe you guys are just dismissing all these 'perfect' quotes without even an acknowledgement that, hey...ya know....theres a case here for 'that which is perfect' has come. Of course, I understand why. This is a very edgey subject for some people who have so much invested.

That's not the reason no one addressed the 'perfect' quotes.
The reason is that you appear to be the only one who believes
that it's Christ's righteousness that is referred to in that passage.

So... to the rest of us, it makes no sense and therefore we couldn't
really comment on it.

 

[Ih8s8n]

13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.​

R.O.F.L. >>> DocBot has detected word 'perfect' again.

Dr.Strangelove: And? What's so funny that you would be "rolling on the floor laughing"? Can't you see what you've done? I can. Let's back up your quote just a little bit to see what type of "perfection" Paul was talking about, okay?

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: AND THIS ALSO WE WISH, EVEN YOUR PERFECTION. THEREFORE I WRITE THESE THINGS being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction. Finally, brethren, farewell. BE PERFECT, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you." (II Corinthians 13:5-11)

Paul not only WISHED the Corinthians would be "perfect", but he also instructed them to "be perfect". Why? Because they were already "perfect" as you insist? Not even close. As we both know, they were FAR FROM PERFECT. How FAR FROM PERFECT, you ask? So FAR FROM PERFECT that he had to instruct them to examine themselves to see if they were even in the faith. Spare us your truncated "quotes", would you? You're only exposing your own deceptive practices and making a laughingstock of yourself in the process.

Take care.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Christs Righteousness is that which is perfect?

Let's see how it fits:

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease;
where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge,
it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when Christ's righteousness comes, what is in part disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child.
When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror;
but then, when Christ's righteousness comes, we shall see face to face.
Now I know in part; but when Christ's righteousness appears,
then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Gratitudes. Makes perfect sense.

Sorry but it makes no sense.What does Christ's righteousness have
to do with knowing fully?
You're "righteous" through Christ,
not "all knowing"
And you are obviously not all knowing
even you "know" that.

Sunlover does not fully know what she needs to know for her walk?

ERROR_PATCH_REQUIRED

DocBot gives regrets.

DocBot knows what he must do for the rest of His life thanks to Christ righteousnes. DocBot is complete once coupled with Christs perfect righteousnes and perfect love.

**sigh** Circuits melting with warmth >>>

>End.

>Systems shutting down.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Dr.Strangelove: And? What's so funny that you would be "rolling on the floor laughing"? Can't you see what you've done? I can. Let's back up your quote just a little bit to see what type of "perfection" Paul was talking about, okay?

Paul not only WISHED the Corinthians would be "perfect", but he also instructed them to "be perfect". Why? Because they were already "perfect" as you insist? Not even close. As we both know, they were FAR FROM PERFECT. How FAR FROM PERFECT, you ask? So FAR FROM PERFECT that he had to instruct them to examine themselves to see if they were even in the faith. Spare us your truncated "quotes", would you? You're only exposing your own deceptive practices and making a laughingstock of yourself in the process.

Take care.

Did not quote verse to support 'perfect' argument in particular. Only to point to 'be of one mind'.

Happened to notice word perfect in verse also. Tickled circuits. Regrets that my happiness brings you such angst.

(Your argument still does not compute though. If Corinthians ever did come to true faith, they would be perfected in spirit. Thus perfect would have come)

 

[Ih8s8n]

child of Jesus (self-censored) deleted post because:

1) forgot promise to not engage on this thread

2) succumbed to temptation to repay evil with evil > coJ> Metanoia

CoJ: What was that all about?

"Metanoia" bold-faced?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/metanoia

Definition of METANOIA

: a transformative change of heart; especially : a spiritual conversion


And?

What's this:

Originally Posted by child of Jesus

hopefully you can firmly rebuke and chastise me if i'm wrong! public ridicule would be nice too. i like that!

thanks for your super-tough language - i like someone who is solid on what they believe and say (even if they are WRONG)
​

DocBot Initiating Prediction calculations >>>>

DocBot would like to inform lifeform : child of Jesus : that some members are in a hurry and are just leaving out of the door and may not respond for some time....

......if ever.

?

Was that originally part of your "self-censored deleted post" and were those comments originally directed towards me? In any case, I'm pretty sure what Dr.Strangelove was insinuating in his response, so I'll respond to that now.

Dr.Strangelove: Since you made a similar comment about me a couple of days ago on your thread that has been shut down, I'll assume, with a fair amount of confidence, that this comment was made about me as well. Not that it's really any of your business, but I'll fill you in on a thing or two...

1. As several forum members already know, my wife, three children and I have been living like nomads lately, having moved about 16 times (literally) in the last 4 months due to a mold-related problem in our previous home. Not only are these continual moves taking up a lot of my time, but I've also been spending a lot of time (like earlier today) hunting for a new home.

2. Although we don't presently have a "home" (we're renting at different resorts for a week at a time while we seek permanent residency), my wife and I still homeschool our children, so that puts a lot of demands on our time as well.

3. I'm self-employed (retail sales of clothing) and I design most of my own clothing. With such being the case, on the days that I'm actually home, I'm generally running my embroidery machine (it's not one of those little sewing machines, mind you) from about 6:00 a.m. until about 10:00 p.m. This, too, is very time consuming as I'm constantly hooping new shirts, changing thread, changing needles, designing images with my computer software, etc.

4. When I am actually selling on the road at the different venues that I work at, I get up at 1:30 a.m., I'm on the road by 2:30 or 3:00 a.m. and I don't get home from work until around 7:00 p.m.

5. Since I also sell online, I have to not only update my website regularly (almost daily), but also ship whatever is ordered.

Shall I go on? Your little inuendos are as off-base as your twisted "quotes". Just another reason why I discard your writings and pray for you regularly.

Take care.