Texas shows how to build jobs

[Vambram]

Texas shows how to build jobs while Biden and Harris hold us back | Blaze Media

Shortsighted federal policies are discouraging millions of Americans from training and entering the advanced manufacturing workforce.

www.theblaze.com

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Shortsighted federal policies are discouraging millions of Americans from training and entering the advanced manufacturing workforce.

Central Texas has become a sterling example of how America can restore its manufacturing capacity and industrial strength, which is central to our defense industrial base and national security. A recent visit to meet with local and state stakeholders revealed that public-private partnerships can effectively overcome the obstacles and impediments to expand and return industrial productivity, accelerating economic growth, creating jobs, and safeguarding our military capacity.
Unfortunately, our visit also made clear that the policies of the Biden-Harris administration impede growth, obstruct workforce development, constrain employment, and have placed our defense industrial base and national security at risk.

 

[iluvatar5150]

What an oddly partisan take on college expenses, though I shouldn't be surprised given that the two authors are a Republican congressman and a director at the Heritage Foundation.

Trade schools and community colleges already exist and already interface with local businesses to develop workers. If manufacturers are having trouble finding workers, perhaps they should reach out to these schools and try harder. IME, most corporations are extremely poor about training their workers.

The notion of setting a budget relative to graduate earnings is an interesting one that has some obviously skewed incentives, but I don't know if they're necessarily any worse than the other skewed incentives that already exist. But the notion that we should unlink funding from accreditation is laughable. Accreditation isn't especially stringent - you just have to hit certain benchmarks and have certain financial and governance processes in place. Lots of small schools manage to do it. And I'm not aware that unaccredited schools are necessarily any cheaper.

 

[Vambram]

What an oddly partisan take on college expenses, though I shouldn't be surprised given that the two authors are a Republican congressman and a director at the Heritage Foundation.

Trade schools and community colleges already exist and already interface with local businesses to develop workers. If manufacturers are having trouble finding workers, perhaps they should reach out to these schools and try harder. IME, most corporations are extremely poor about training their workers.

The notion of setting a budget relative to graduate earnings is an interesting one that has some obviously skewed incentives, but I don't know if they're necessarily any worse than the other skewed incentives that already exist. But the notion that we should unlink funding from accreditation is laughable. Accreditation isn't especially stringent - you just have to hit certain benchmarks and have certain financial and governance processes in place. Lots of small schools manage to do it. And I'm not aware that unaccredited schools are necessarily any cheaper.

The point that those writers are making which I like the best is that more people ought to be encouraged and incentivized to get professional and technical degrees and/or certifications which are necessary for many, many, middle and upper middle class types of jobs. Too often, the importance of trade and technical schools is not emphasized in America, IMO.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

The point that those writers are making which I like the best is that more people ought to be encouraged and incentivized to get professional and technical degrees and/or certifications which are necessary for many, many, middle and upper middle class types of jobs. Too often, the importance of trade and technical schools is not emphasized in America, IMO.

I tend to agree with you, but the primary driver behind this issue is hiring managers making a college degree the default requirement for jobs that don't really need one. It's hard to encourage high schoolers to go to trade schools when every job listing seems to require a bachelor's degree.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Very good article and I am encouraged by it. Current big government programs are just not serving society well at all, none are well thought out.

We are lacking a focus on the trades I agree while over focusing silly liberal arts degrees. I don't even think federal aid of any kind should pay for that nonsense.

I don't think we need to decouple federal aid from accreditation but we might rethink how we hand out accreditation and for what...

But this? This is very encouraging from the article:

"In 2013, under the conservative leadership of Gov. Rick Perry, Texas passed the “Returned Value Formula” funding model, which evaluates and then funds technical colleges in the state entirely based on the earnings of students and employment outcomes rather than the number of people enrolled or a variety of other factors.

This put the onus on the college to ensure its graduates secure good jobs and strong income potential, making the college accountable for their success in the workforce. The focus on outcome and metrics has resulted in wage growth and more degrees in high-demand occupations. It should be replicated in states across the country to ensure that taxpayer dollars are used efficiently, providing students with a strong return on their investment. Doing so would deliver tangible results for industry leaders and businesses alike, by incentivizing colleges to align their programs with industry needs and focus on producing job-ready graduates"

 

[Hazelelponi]

I tend to agree with you, but the primary driver behind this issue is hiring managers making a college degree the default requirement for jobs that don't really need one. It's hard to encourage high schoolers to go to trade schools when every job listing seems to require a bachelor's degree.

I definitely agree with you that these corporations want everyone in their employ to run through college.

It's really odd because in my dad's day none of that existed. There was far more on the job training than there is now and intelligent men could be in upper management without any degree at all.

 

[comana]

Now everyone must go through the prerequisite Marxist indoctrination first. Very odd because it's so unnecessary.

Your opinion on higher education aside, it’s corporate laziness. They don’t want to train, they think a college degree means ready to go. Even though it doesn’t. Also, the recession after 2008 created high demand for jobs and HR departments seemed to think adding a 4 year degree requirement would cut down on the number of applicants to filter through. That requirement was never removed.

 

[iluvatar5150]

The point that those writers are making

That's not the only point they're making - they take a partisan dig at Biden/Harris right in the title despite the fact that the phenomena they describe have been going on for decades.

which I like the best is that more people ought to be encouraged and incentivized to get professional and technical degrees and/or certifications which are necessary for many, many, middle and upper middle class types of jobs. Too often, the importance of trade and technical schools is not emphasized in America, IMO.

I'm skeptical of that argument. I don't think it's entirely wrong, but I do think it's often oversold. Trade schools aren't emphasized because the jobs they lead to are often not that great - they don't pay well, or they're very physically taxing, or they're often plagued by toxic work environments, or they're so specialized that they're not relevant outside a particular niche, or some mix thereof. Now, maybe that's better than nothing for some folks, but it's also not necessarily something to go shouting from the rooftops.

 

[Hazelelponi]

they take a partisan dig at Biden/Harris

Nothing wrong with that.

Has the Biden Harris Administration done for the country what Texas started over a decade ago which is proving to be positive for society?

When your in office you focus on public policies and should have successes to highlight when your up for reelection.

When Republicans are in office they try to put out policies that are positive for society and then showcase their accomplishments from time to time, usually in election season.

 

[Vambram]

That's not the only point they're making - they take a partisan dig at Biden/Harris right in the title despite the fact that the phenomena they describe have been going on for decades.



I'm skeptical of that argument. I don't think it's entirely wrong, but I do think it's often oversold. Trade schools aren't emphasized because the jobs they lead to are often not that great - they don't pay well, or they're very physically taxing, or they're often plagued by toxic work environments, or they're so specialized that they're not relevant outside a particular niche, or some mix thereof. Now, maybe that's better than nothing for some folks, but it's also not necessarily something to go shouting from the rooftops.

IMO, there are literally hundreds of thousands, if not more, of VERY good and well-paying jobs available for mechanics, machinists, plumbers, welders, HVAC workers, electricians, computer and network technicians, ... just to name a few. Those occupations don't usually require a 4 year college degree.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Nothing wrong with that.

Has the Biden Harris Administration done for the country what Texas started over a decade ago which is proving to be positive for society?

On the subject of education, they’re breaking the logjam in the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, a problem that Trump didn’t cause, but that his Education Secretary absolutely did not fix (if we’re going to make it partisan).

When your in office you focus on public policies and should have successes to highlight when your up for reelection.

When Republicans are in office they try to put out policies that are positive for society and then showcase their accomplishments from time to time, usually in election season.

That partisan attacks are commonplace doesn’t make them accurate.

This is literally the first time I’ve heard about this program; I can’t recall anybody proposing anything like this at a national level. What I have heard of being proposed a lot by Republicans are vouchers and charter programs that generally do no better than (and often worse than) the existing system. I can’t recall any serious proposals from the right to deal with rising costs in higher education.

IMO, there are literally hundreds of thousands, if not more, of VERY good and well-paying jobs available for mechanics, machinists, plumbers, welders, HVAC workers, electricians, computer and network technicians, ... just to name a few. Those occupations don't usually require a 4 year college degree.

Generally speaking, they’re typically not as well-paying as their boosters imply. Can someone in a union working commercial construction in a large city make decent money? Sure. Can somebody doing non-union residential construction in a LCOL area? Probably not, unless they own the company.

On top of that, many of them are very physical and/or are plagued by toxicity, both of which have their own consequences.

Again, that doesn’t mean they’re not the best options for some people, but they’re largely not the undiscovered treasure they’re made out to be.

 

[Vambram]

On the subject of education, they’re breaking the logjam in the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, a problem that Trump didn’t cause, but that his Education Secretary absolutely did not fix (if we’re going to make it partisan).


That partisan attacks are commonplace doesn’t make them accurate.

This is literally the first time I’ve heard about this program; I can’t recall anybody proposing anything like this at a national level. What I have heard of being proposed a lot by Republicans are vouchers and charter programs that generally do no better than (and often worse than) the existing system. I can’t recall any serious proposals from the right to deal with rising costs in higher education.



Generally speaking, they’re typically not as well-paying as their boosters imply. Can someone in a union working commercial construction in a large city make decent money? Sure. Can somebody doing non-union residential construction in a LCOL area? Probably not, unless they own the company.

On top of that, many of them are very physical and/or are plagued by toxicity, both of which have their own consequences.

Again, that doesn’t mean they’re not the best options for some people, but they’re largely not the undiscovered treasure they’re made out to be.

If I had the training and certification to be a welder, a plumber, or an HVAC technician, or even an electrician ... then there's no doubt that my income would be at least 25% higher than it is now.

 

[iluvatar5150]

If I had the training and certification to be a welder, a plumber, or an HVAC technician, or even an electrician ... then there's no doubt that my income would be at least 25% higher than it is now.

Maybe. I don’t know your situation, but I’ve known folks in most of those jobs and the pay can vary pretty drastically based on where you are and what you’re doing. Not all welders, for example, are pulling down $200k/yr working oil rigs on the north slope. Most are repairing farm equipment or fabricating sprinkler pipes for $25/hr.

 

[Vambram]

Maybe. I don’t know your situation, but I’ve known folks in most of those jobs and the pay can vary pretty drastically based on where you are and what you’re doing. Not all welders, for example, are pulling down $200k/yr working oil rigs on the north slope. Most are repairing farm equipment or fabricating sprinkler pipes for $25/hr.

Without getting into specifics, I have never ever come close to earning $200K in one year in all of my life. However, I am aware of that welders can earn up to $20K or $30K for just a few months work. Also, do you agree that there are LOTS of very well paying jobs available around the nation for skilled professionals that don't require a 4 year college degree at all?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Without getting into specifics, I have never ever come close to earning $200K in one year in all of my life. However, I am aware of that welders can earn up to $20K or $30K for just a few months work.

$20k in “a few months” is in the ballpark $80k/yr if you annualize it. It’s less than that if work is inconsistent. Those numbers seem perfectly plausible to me, but not mind blowing sums.

Also, do you agree that there are LOTS of very well paying jobs available around the nation for skilled professionals that don't require a 4 year college degree at all?

It depends on what you mean by “lots” and what you mean by “well-paying.”

 

[Vambram]

$20k in “a few months” is in the ballpark $80k/yr if you annualize it. It’s less than that if work is inconsistent. Those numbers seem perfectly plausible to me, but not mind blowing sums.


It depends on what you mean by “lots” and what you mean by “well-paying.”

Without doing any research, off the top of my head based upon previous readings of different articles this year, I estimate that there are around at least few hundred thousand open jobs available for skilled professionals that don't require a 4 year college degree. Also, for most people, I do believe that $80k a year is a very reasonable income to earn in those professions.

 

[FireDragon76]

What an oddly partisan take on college expenses, though I shouldn't be surprised given that the two authors are a Republican congressman and a director at the Heritage Foundation.

Trade schools and community colleges already exist and already interface with local businesses to develop workers. If manufacturers are having trouble finding workers, perhaps they should reach out to these schools and try harder. IME, most corporations are extremely poor about training their workers.

"Skills gap" rhetoric is used all the time by the capital class to demand more austerity and anti-labor laws.

 

[Vambram]

"Skills gap" rhetoric is used all the time by the capital class to demand more austerity and anti-labor laws.

I have never ever before heard of that.

 

[FireDragon76]

I have never ever before heard of that.

They use it all the time when talking about jobs like teachers and nurses, complaining of a "skill gap" in the labor force. The truth is, alot of people don't want to do those jobs because the pay is relatively poor compared to the working conditions.

 

[Vambram]

They use it all the time when talking about jobs like teachers and nurses, complaining of a "skill gap" in the labor force. The truth is, alot of people don't want to do those jobs because the pay is relatively poor compared to the working conditions.

Do you have that same opinion about skilled labor wherein a person earns $80k or more per year?