Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[BobRyan]

The fact is - these are Bible details even the pro-Sunday scholars admit to.

It is a case where both sides agree. It just does not GET any easier than this!

 

[BobRyan]

What I like about this topic - is that it shows that this particular Bible detail is so incredibly obvious that BOTH sides agree. It just doesn't GET any easier than this!!

 

[BobRyan]

List one post in this thread that any claims against the 10 commandments has been fully refuted?
What was 1 claim that you've made effort to show the biblical perspective on?

All of them..

but more than that - even the pro-Sunday scholars admit to this Bible detail.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
True... "and yet" we still are not supposed to take God's name in vain Ex 20:7 - it is still a sin to do that.

You are perpetually stuck under the law. .

let me guess... you say that every time someone reminds you that it is still a sin to take God's name in vain??.

The bottom line is that basic affirmation of God's Commandments - God's TEN Commandments is so obvious in the Bible - that even the pro-Sunday scholars admit to this clear Bible detail

 

[bloodygrace]

The Jews kept the commandments better than you, Bob and it didn't save them. Their history was written down as an example of the terrible bondage the law brings. Peter said the same thing in Acts - why put a yoke on them that we nor our fathers were able to bear.

 

[BobRyan]

The Jews kept the commandments better than you, Bob and it didn't save them. Their history was written down as an example of the terrible bondage the law brings. Peter said the same thing in Acts - why put a yoke on them that we nor our fathers were able to bear.

1. Peter was not speaking of God's Commandments as being a yoke or a burden. He was speaking of the man-made-traditions of the Jews.
2. The failure of the Jews is not an argument for Christians to take God's name in vain - and we both know it.

 

[1stcenturylady]

@BobRyan, what do you tell people who ask you:

The law is holy, so why are we no longer under the law but under grace? What makes the law no longer necessary?

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

So, how do we keep from sinning if we are not under the law? Because if we break the law we sin. And if we are not under the condemnation of the law, what is to prevent us from breaking it?

 

[BobRyan]

@BobRyan, what do you tell people who ask you:

The law is holy, so why are we no longer under the law but under grace? What makes the law no longer necessary?

I tell them
A. The LAW is written on the HEART (Heb 8) instead of "deleted by the gospel"
B. our faith does not abolish the LAW - rather it "Establishes the LAW" Rom 3:31
C. "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19
D. "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God - AND their faith in Jesus " Rev 14:12
E. the term "under the LAW" is defined by Paul BEFORE Romans 6 - it is defined in Romans 3:19 and it means "under the condemnation of the law".
F. Once we accept the Gospel we are no longer under condemnation and are freed to walk in Romans 8:4-9 obedience to the law. For as Romans 6 says you are the slave of the one whom you obey - either SIN resulting in death or of Righteousness resulting in life.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Because if we break the law we sin. And if we are not under the condemnation of the law, what is to prevent us from breaking it?

James points to that same problem in James 2


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

For sin shall not have dominion over you,

Amein and HalleluYAH !

Perhaps a 'shortcut' to anyone looking for fellowship with believers -

look for those this is true about, as God Says.

(instead of accepting (as brethren) those who sin does have dominion over,
keep seeking those who sin does not have dominion over, as YHWH says .)

 

[1stcenturylady]

I tell them
A. The LAW is written on the HEART (Heb 8) instead of "deleted by the gospel"
B. our faith does not abolish the LAW - rather it "Establishes the LAW" Rom 3:31
C. "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19
D. "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God - AND their faith in Jesus " Rev 14:12
E. the term "under the LAW" is defined by Paul BEFORE Romans 6 - it is defined in Romans 3:19 and it means "under the condemnation of the law".
F. Once we accept the Gospel we are no longer under condemnation and are freed to walk in Romans 8:4-9 obedience to the law. For as Romans 6 says you are the slave of the one whom you obey - either SIN resulting in death or of Righteousness resulting in life.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.



James points to that same problem in James 2


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

What does it mean in Romans 6 that we are dead to sin?

 

[Marilyn C]

[FONT=&quot]Are God's Ten Commandments still valid ??

That is the primary question to be answered on this section of the board.

And the irrefutable response from scripture is ... "yes".

========================

Hi BobRyan,

I read some very good material in the replies, thank you. And although late to your discussion, I do have a short comment.

Yes God`s 10 commandments are still valid for Israel to whom they were given. And as to the Gentiles, well, they have the law of God on their conscience. (Rom. 2 : 14 & 15) Living in a fallen world necessitates the need of God`s laws.

As to the Body of Christ, God`s 10 commandments reveal why mankind needs a Saviour. And as far as our obedience to God`s laws, the only way we can fulfil them with the right heart motivation, is to continually humble ourselves under God`s mighty hand, listen and obey the Holy Spirit who is enabling us to be partakers of the divine nature. (2 Peter 1: 4) And that amazing truth is beyond any effort on my part to obey the 10 commandments.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Does anyone "fulfill" the traffic laws of the usa, or whatever country they live in?

Yet they still obey the traffic laws, or else face punishment, fines, arrest, death, etc...

 

[BobRyan]

Does anyone "fulfill" the traffic laws of the usa, or whatever country they live in?

Yet they still obey the traffic laws, or else face punishment, fines, arrest, death, etc...

Not "fulfill" as in "abolish"
But they can fulfill the requirement - the law requires that you obey the speed limit. If you do you have fulfilled the requirement and could be said to be a model example to others who are also required to fulfill it.

Romans 8 "the law is fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit" -- but this is not said about us in regard to the Passover -- as if we were slain for the sins of the world -- rather it is said about us in terms of the moral law - including obedience to the TEN commandments. We are to "fulfill" the requirements as we see in both Romans 8:4 and also in Romans 13. "And thus fulfill the law".

9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Why is it even talking about fulfilling at all - if it is "Fulfill by abolishing the law" that Christ had done before?

For example - We do not need to be slain as a sin offering. Christ fulfilled that Passover prediction and no one else has any obligation at all to also do that.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

For example - We do not need to be slain as a sin offering. Christ fulfilled that Passover prediction and no one else has any obligation at all to also do that.

Amein and HalleluYAH!

Also brings to remembrance:
we are crucified ,
we do die to self,
we do die to the world,
the world does die to us,
we no longer live for 'self',
we no longer are concerned with the things of the world,
we no longer worry about such things like the gentiles do,
we do trust our heavenly Father in Jesus for providing all of our needs,
both / all/ spiritual and physical --- food, clothes, place to stay ....

we no longer are alive to selfishness, nor self-centeredness, as the world teaches;
we do live self-sacrificing lives, as JESUS did,
as JESUS taught all who followed Him to do....

we are dead to 'religion' that is the form of godliness with no power,

we are alive to YHWH by faith in Christ Jesus, LIVING HIS LIFE TODAY !
by His Grace,
His Choice,
His "Dunamis",
His Good Pleasure,
His Accomplishment,
His Provision in every way, every day,
His Wisdom,
His Perfect Judgment and Experiential Knowledge (living with Him),
His All in All !

HALLELUYAH !

 

[pescador]

@BobRyan, what do you tell people who ask you:

The law is holy, so why are we no longer under the law but under grace? What makes the law no longer necessary?

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

So, how do we keep from sinning if we are not under the law? Because if we break the law we sin. And if we are not under the condemnation of the law, what is to prevent us from breaking it?

A few corrections needed here...

We don't keep from sinning. We sin all the time. It has nothing to do with the law. It has to do with the fact that none of us are perfect.

If we break the law we sin? We can sin independently of the law. (Read the Sermon on the Mount.) We are not under law but under grace.

If we are not under the condemnation of the law, what is to prevent us from breaking it? Nothing prevents us from breaking it. The Holy Spirit guides us.

The main point is that our sins are forgiven because Jesus paid the price.

 

[1stcenturylady]

A few corrections needed here...

We don't keep from sinning. We sin all the time. It has nothing to do with the law. It has to do with the fact that none of us are perfect.

If we break the law we sin? We can sin independently of the law. (Read the Sermon on the Mount.) We are not under law but under grace.

If we are not under the condemnation of the law, what is to prevent us from breaking it? Nothing prevents us from breaking it. The Holy Spirit guides us.

The main point is that our sins are forgiven because Jesus paid the price.

I'll stand on what I posted.

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[BobRyan]

A few corrections needed here...

We don't keep from sinning. We sin all the time. It has nothing to do with the law. It has to do with the fact that none of us are perfect.

If we break the law we sin? We can sin independently of the law. (Read the Sermon on the Mount.) We are not under law but under grace.

If we are not under the condemnation of the law, what is to prevent us from breaking it? Nothing prevents us from breaking it. The Holy Spirit guides us.

The main point is that our sins are forgiven because Jesus paid the price.

In the NT "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
In the NT - "you are the slave of the one you obey - either of sin resulting in death - or of righeousness resulting in life" Romans 6.

In the NT - there is one group of people who "DO not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:4-9... Question for you. Who is that group of people according to Romans 8:4-9? and who are they contrasted with in those same verses?

 

[1stcenturylady]

In the NT "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
In the NT - "you are the slave of the one you obey - either of sin resulting in death - or of righeousness resulting in life" Romans 6.

In the NT - there is one group of people who "DO not submit to the LAW of God - neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:4-9... Question for you. Who is that group of people according to Romans 8:4-9? and who are they contrasted with in those same verses?

Whodathunkit! We agree!!!

 

[BobRyan]

Whodathunkit! We agree!!!

We agree that God's Word teaches victory over sin.

But what it does not say - is that the Bible writers or any of the saints went around saying "I don't sin" or "I am now sinless" as in someone who has ceased to sin.

We make a lot over the command that we are to "sin not" and we are to "cease to sin" but no Bible writer ever goes so far as to say "I have ceased to sin". And we should follow that example.

 

[1stcenturylady]

We agree that God's Word teaches victory over sin.

But what it does not say - is that the Bible writers or any of the saints went around saying "I don't sin" or "I am now sinless" as in someone who has ceased to sin.

We make a lot over the command that we are to "sin not" and we are to "cease to sin" but no Bible writer ever goes so far as to say "I have ceased to sin". And we should follow that example.

If you cannot say, I do not WILLFULLY sin, then I hope someday you will suffer enough to learn obedience, for Jesus learned obedience through suffering, and so have I. Count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.