Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[klutedavid]

Hello Bob.

You need to read the entire confession of faith.

Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith admits to the Bible detail - that the TEN Commandments are included in the "Moral Law of God" and that they are still binding on all Christians.

CHAPTER 19
OF THE LAW OF GOD
Paragraph 6
Although true believers be not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned.

There goes the idea that the Baptists saw themselves as under the law.

Here is what the Baptists think of the Sabbath.

CHAPTER 22
OF RELIGIOUS WORSHIP AND THE SABBATH DAY
Paragraph 7
As it is the law of nature, that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, be set apart for the worship of God, so by his Word, in a positive moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men, in all ages, he has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy unto him, 28 which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ was changed into the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's Day, 29 and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.

Wonderful - then you won't mind me pointing to the "Actual details" in section 19 to see if the speculation you offer - fits what is actually in the text.

When the Baptists use the word binding, they do not use it in the way that you do.

Works of the law are anathema to the Baptists.

perfect!

You seriously need to read the entire text.

• "The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man."

• "Besides this law, commonly called the moral law,"​

• "The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others,"

They do not obey the Sabbath commandment, they honor the first day.

Then the Westminster Confession of Faith.

Not relevant to the discussion.

Were we just simply "not supposed to notice"??

Well we did notice that the Baptists do not honor the written ten commandment.

 

[BobRyan]

Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith admits to the Bible detail - that the TEN Commandments are included in the "Moral Law of God" and that they are still binding on all Christians.

Negative, section 19 states we are not under the law.

Not my claim.Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

I have read it and it does not say what your saying, Bob.

Wonderful - then you won't mind me pointing to the "Actual details" in section 19 to see if the speculation you offer - fits what is actually in the text.

perfect!

First the Baptist Confession of Faith

The Baptist Confession of Faith - section 19 almost identical to the Westminster section 19 quoted above.

Notice how they both fit that 7 point summary already posted on page 1?

Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19

Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith"
-- CH Spurgeon

The Perpetuity of the Law of God

Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

Section 19
. The Law of God ​

God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased to give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away. ​

• To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it __________________​

​

• "The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man."

• "Besides this law, commonly called the moral law,"​

• "The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others,"

Then the Westminster Confession of Faith.

As we already saw on page "one".

So then what would be an example of such pro-Sunday scholarship that pertains to the 7 point summary list just posted?

Here we have section 19 of the Westminster - and of course you already have a few posts of mine quoting the "Baptist Confession of Faith"

Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19

"Westminster Confession of Faith"

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God​

I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;l and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.

​

Section 21 of the Westminster and Section 22 of the Baptist both address point 7 "the change" the edit of the Sabbath commandment from the 7th day starting from creation and all through the OT and NT Gospel until the cross where it is "changed" in their mind -- to point to week-day-1.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

Were we just simply "not supposed to notice"??

Hello Bob.
You need to read the entire confession of faith.

I quote all of section 19 in that post. As we both know.

Negative, section 19 states we are not under the law.

It says the TEN commandments ALL TEN are in the moral law of God and "bind forever"

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

Impossible to miss.

You provide nothing at all in your post from section 19 that shows the Baptists claiming to abolish the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant. Rather in section 19 they "AFFIRM" it.

And we both know it.

 

[BobRyan]

You seriously need to read the entire text.

• "The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man."

• "Besides this law, commonly called the moral law,"

• "The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others,"

.

I find your logic "illusive" at that point. You seem to be undercutting your own argument -- you quote the very part of the Baptist Confession of Faith that you appear to now - most object to.

 

[BobRyan]

They do not obey the Sabbath commandment, they honor the first day.

From page 1 -- post 3. Details matter.

Ok that is all well and good - but the thread title says that these obvious pro-Ten Commandment facts in the Bible are also affirmed by pro-Sunday scholarship.

How can that possibly be?

First a summary of the pro-Sunday scholarship statements affirming the TEN Commandments.

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

 

[BobRyan]

Well we did notice that the Baptists do not honor the written ten commandment.

As we have just seen the Baptist Confession of Faith affirms, upholds, defends all TEN of the TEN Commandments as included in the moral law of God. It does not claim to "not honor the TEN Commandments".

And we both know - this is their statement. In fact they flatly condemn (as does D.L. Moody) the "deleted Ten Commandments" and even the "downsized TEN" arguments made by "some" -- how "instructive" that on the very point where you wish to "differ" - the Baptist document condemns the doctrinal argument you suggest, and affirms all TEN the TEN commandments in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant.

A detail I did not miss.

6 of their 7 point argument - is agreed to by me while all SEVEN of their 7 point argument is opposed by your speculation to the contrary. Which is the title and point of this thread.

How "odd" then that those who oppose "All 7" of the BCoF statement in section 19 and 22 - should imagine to themselves that this opposition is just against Bible-Sabbath keeping Christian doctrine.

 

[listed]

Hello Bob.

You need to read the entire confession of faith.

CHAPTER 19
OF THE LAW OF GOD
Paragraph 6
Although true believers be not under the law as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified or condemned.

There goes the idea that the Baptists saw themselves as under the law.

Here is what the Baptists think of the Sabbath.

CHAPTER 22
OF RELIGIOUS WORSHIP AND THE SABBATH DAY
Paragraph 7
As it is the law of nature, that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, be set apart for the worship of God, so by his Word, in a positive moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men, in all ages, he has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy unto him, 28 which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ was changed into the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's Day, 29 and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.

When the Baptists use the word binding, they do not use it in the way that you do.

Works of the law are anathema to the Baptists.

You seriously need to read the entire text.

They do not obey the Sabbath commandment, they honor the first day.

Not relevant to the discussion.

Well we did notice that the Baptists do not honor the written ten commandment.

Thanks for this post. I've noticed Bob ignores lots of things and this will probably be one of them. He likes half and out of contest quotes for support.

 

[listed]

Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith admits to the Bible detail - that the TEN Commandments are included in the "Moral Law of God" and that they are still binding on all Christians.



Wonderful - then you won't mind me pointing to the "Actual details" in section 19 to see if the speculation you offer - fits what is actually in the text.

perfect!

First the Baptist Confession of Faith

• "The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man."

• "Besides this law, commonly called the moral law,"​

• "The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others,"

Then the Westminster Confession of Faith.

As we already saw on page "one".



II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

Were we just simply "not supposed to notice"??



I quote all of section 19 in that post. As we both know.



It says the TEN commandments ALL TEN are in the moral law of God and "bind forever"

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

Impossible to miss.

You provide nothing at all in your post from section 19 that shows the Baptists claiming to abolish the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant. Rather in section 19 they "AFFIRM" it.

And we both know it.

In the very next post too.

 

[listed]

As we have just seen the Baptist Confession of Faith affirms, upholds, defends all TEN of the TEN Commandments as included in the moral law of God. It does not claim to "not honor the TEN Commandments".

And we both know - this is their statement. In fact they flatly condemn (as does D.L. Moody) the "deleted Ten Commandments" and even the "downsized TEN" arguments made by "some" -- how "instructive" that on the very point where you wish to "differ" - the Baptist document condemns the doctrinal argument you suggest, and affirms all TEN the TEN commandments in the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant.

A detail I did not miss.

6 of their 7 point argument - is agreed to by me while all SEVEN of their 7 point argument is opposed by your speculation to the contrary. Which is the title and point of this thread.

How "odd" then that those who oppose "All 7" of the BCoF statement in section 19 and 22 - should imagine to themselves that this opposition is just against Bible-Sabbath keeping Christian doctrine.

I'm positive you've been told Moody doesn't keep the sabbath somewhere in this forum. Do you have proof he did? It is needed to prove your point that he preached and practiced what he preached keeping the sabbath. If he didn't keep the 7th day sabbath, he didn't preach it either.

 

[BobRyan]

I'm positive you've been told Moody doesn't keep the sabbath somewhere in this forum. .

I am positive I have quoted D.L. Moody's own statement on his own beliefs about the continued TEN Commandments as the moral law of God - many times on this forum.

Don't mind doing that "again" though.

hmmm "page 1" of this very thread comes to mind.

- D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS text by D. L. Moody

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.
The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

------------------------------------------

This Sabbath Commandment section of Moody's Ten Commandment sermon goes on with more detail. Here is a segment of that same section -- the ending concluding segment - that might help shed even more light on Moody's Intent -

yet another example where Moody is adamant on his view. # May 11, 2015 #229

 

[klutedavid]

I find your logic "illusive" at that point. You seem to be undercutting your own argument.

Hello Bob Ryan.

You believe that people are under the law, i.e., legally under the ten commandments.
The Baptists do not believe that anyone is under the ten commandments in that legal sense.

Chapter 19
THE LAW OF GOD
Paragraph 6

The promises of it likewise shew them God's approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof, though not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works; so as man's doing good and refraining from evil, because the law encourage to the one and deter from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law and not under grace. ( Romans 6:14; Galatians 2:16; Romans 8:1; Romans 10:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7, etc; Romans 6:12-14; 1 Peter 3:8-13 )

The Baptists believe we are bound morally to the ten commandments, but not legally to the ten commandments. The Baptists believe we are under Grace and not under the law.
You misunderstand what is written above.

 

[klutedavid]

Thanks for this post. I've noticed Bob ignores lots of things and this will probably be one of them. He likes half and out of contest quotes for support.

Hello listed.

Not sure whether he ignores or just does not understand what the Baptists are saying?

 

[bugkiller]

Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith admits to the Bible detail - that the TEN Commandments are included in the "Moral Law of God" and that they are still binding on all Christians.



Wonderful - then you won't mind me pointing to the "Actual details" in section 19 to see if the speculation you offer - fits what is actually in the text.

perfect!

First the Baptist Confession of Faith

• "The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man."

• "Besides this law, commonly called the moral law,"​

• "The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others,"

Then the Westminster Confession of Faith.

As we already saw on page "one".



II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

Were we just simply "not supposed to notice"??



I quote all of section 19 in that post. As we both know.



It says the TEN commandments ALL TEN are in the moral law of God and "bind forever"

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

Impossible to miss.

You provide nothing at all in your post from section 19 that shows the Baptists claiming to abolish the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant. Rather in section 19 they "AFFIRM" it.

And we both know it.

Did miss the fact you said nothing bout what klutedavid said?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I find your logic "illusive" at that point. You seem to be undercutting your own argument.

Of course, he does not agree with you.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

From page 1 -- post 3. Details matter.

Only yours.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I'm positive you've been told Moody doesn't keep the sabbath somewhere in this forum. Do you have proof he did? It is needed to prove your point that he preached and practiced what he preached keeping the sabbath. If he didn't keep the 7th day sabbath, he didn't preach it either.

I quoted the same web site Bob gets his c & p from as evidence Moody does not sincerely proclaim the 7th day sabbath. Moody takes the 7th day off as a non work day opposed to a day of religious acttvity.

The debate can be found here Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?

Here are some quotes from that debate -

We find this on a devotional page - The Fourth Commandment | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org

Moreover, keeping the day of rest holy also showed one’s love for God. The rationale for Sabbath observance is the imitation of the Creator, who worked for six days and then rested on the seventh (Gen. 1:1–2:3). Fundamentally, we show our love for God in our desire and effort to be holy as He is holy; His holiness is a pattern for us to copy in our everyday lives (Eph. 5:1–2). The ancient Israelite was duty bound to structure his entire life as God structured His, with designated periods of work and rest.
The same principle of imitation applies to new covenant believers as well, although we no longer observe a seventh-day Sabbath. Instead, the first day of the week is set aside for Christian worship. There is no specific change in day mentioned in the New Testament, but the change was good and proper. Under the old covenant, the Sabbath celebrated God’s work of creation. We celebrate God’s creation under the new covenant as well, only now the focus is on the new creation in Christ (Gal. 6:15), which was established in His resurrection on the first day of the week. (bolded highligh is my addition for attention.)

here are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. DL Moody

The Lord's Day is the first day of the week, Sunday, the day Christ finished His labor and rose from the dead. Charles Stanley

Instead, the first day of the week is set aside for Christian worship. There is no specific change in day mentioned in the New Testament, but the change was good and proper. Under the old covenant, the Sabbath celebrated God’s work of creation. We celebrate God’s creation under the new covenant as well, only now the focus is on the new creation in Christ (Gal. 6:15), which was established in His resurrection on the first day of the week. RC Sproul

bugkiller

 

[listed]

I quoted the same web site Bob gets his c & p from as evidence Moody does not sincerely proclaim the 7th day sabbath. Moody takes the 7th day off as a non work day opposed to a day of religious acttvity.

The debate can be found here Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?

Here are some quotes from that debate -

We find this on a devotional page - The Fourth Commandment | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org

Moreover, keeping the day of rest holy also showed one’s love for God. The rationale for Sabbath observance is the imitation of the Creator, who worked for six days and then rested on the seventh (Gen. 1:1–2:3). Fundamentally, we show our love for God in our desire and effort to be holy as He is holy; His holiness is a pattern for us to copy in our everyday lives (Eph. 5:1–2). The ancient Israelite was duty bound to structure his entire life as God structured His, with designated periods of work and rest.
The same principle of imitation applies to new covenant believers as well, although we no longer observe a seventh-day Sabbath. Instead, the first day of the week is set aside for Christian worship. There is no specific change in day mentioned in the New Testament, but the change was good and proper. Under the old covenant, the Sabbath celebrated God’s work of creation. We celebrate God’s creation under the new covenant as well, only now the focus is on the new creation in Christ (Gal. 6:15), which was established in His resurrection on the first day of the week. (bolded highligh is my addition for attention.)

here are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. DL Moody

The Lord's Day is the first day of the week, Sunday, the day Christ finished His labor and rose from the dead. Charles Stanley

Instead, the first day of the week is set aside for Christian worship. There is no specific change in day mentioned in the New Testament, but the change was good and proper. Under the old covenant, the Sabbath celebrated God’s work of creation. We celebrate God’s creation under the new covenant as well, only now the focus is on the new creation in Christ (Gal. 6:15), which was established in His resurrection on the first day of the week. RC Sproul

bugkiller

Thanks for this information. Will go and read that debate.

 

[BobRyan]

You seriously need to read the entire text.

• "The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man."

• "Besides this law, commonly called the moral law,"

• "The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others,"

.

I find your logic "illusive" at that point. You seem to be undercutting your own argument -- you quote the very part of the Baptist Confession of Faith that you appear to now - most object to.

Hello Bob Ryan.

You believe that people are under the law, i.e., legally under the ten commandments.

This is the Baptist Confession of Faith that you referenced -- as just quoted - and it says this is the still-valid Law of God that is written on the heart and mind under the new Covenant.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4. As I am sure you recall.

It appears from the actual quote of the Baptist Confession of Faith - that you know they believe this too.

"The promises of it likewise shew them God's approbation of obedience, and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof, though not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works; so as man's doing good and refraining from evil, because the law encourage to the one and deter from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law and not under grace. ( Romans 6:14; Galatians 2:16; Romans 8:1; Romans 10:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7, etc; Romans 6:12-14; 1 Peter 3:8-13 )

The "Covenant of works" they speak of is not as you may have supposed "agreeing that taking God's name in vain is a sin". That is not "a covenant of works" - rather the "covenant of works" is an "agreement" to work one's way to heaven claiming no need of salvation.

By contrast "Do not take God's name in vain" is actually IN the NEW Covenant law of God written on the heart where "sin IS transgression of the LAW"

The Baptists believe we are bound morally to the ten commandments, but not legally to the ten commandments.

you have quoted yourself well in that case.

By contrast the confession of faith document does not make the mistake of 'morally vs legally' hair splitting.

Instead it says the very same OT Ten Commandments are "written on the heart" and are "the moral law of God" -- still to this very day.

 

[BobRyan]

I quoted the same web site Bob gets his c & p from as evidence Moody does not sincerely proclaim the 7th day sabbath. Moody takes the 7th day off as a non work day opposed to a day of religious acttvity.

Until you read page one of this thread... post #3.

Ok that is all well and good - but the thread title says that these obvious pro-Ten Commandment facts in the Bible are also affirmed by pro-Sunday scholarship.

How can that possibly be?

First a summary of the pro-Sunday scholarship statements affirming the TEN Commandments.

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

Every time someone claims to not have read this -Yesterday at 8:49 AM #1324

I love to point to it for all to read.

The issue was already discussed.

 

[bugkiller]

Until you read page one of this thread... post #3.



Every time someone claims to not have read this -Yesterday at 8:49 AM #1324

I love to point to it for all to read.

The issue was already discussed.

So is my quote from the same source wrong?

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
Until you read page one of this thread... post #3.



Every time someone claims to not have read this -Yesterday at 8:49 AM #1324

I love to point to it for all to read.

The issue was already discussed.

So is my quote from the same source wrong?

bugkiller

1. your quote is not from the same source.
2. You have a quote from some text of D.L Moody click the link above - that is not the source.
3. I DO have a quote of Moody from his sermon on the TEN Commandments - including his statement on the 4th commandment. Should I post it here again?