Ten Commandment Bible Details so obvious - BOTH sides admit to them

[BobRyan]

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
Exodus 20:7 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

==========================================================
Paul affirms the Ten Commandments

1. Paul teaches that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19 NASB

If you're using the KJV this is a misquote. Besides being circumcised is a command of the law for those keeping it. The Christian isn't called to it.

1 Cor 7:19 contrasts ceremonial law like circumcision with the "Commandments of God" like "do not take God's name in vain"

3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16

Paul also says: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. There are no doers of the law.

You quote the NT and declare it to be wrong??

4. Paul askw that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8

6. Paul tells gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9

1 Cor 9:8-9
8 I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He?​

7 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11

8. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
(see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

9. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
=====

"it just does not GET any easier than that!".

 

[bugkiller]

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
Exodus 20:7 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

==========================================================
Paul affirms the Ten Commandments

1. Paul teaches that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19 NASB



1 Cor 7:19 contrasts ceremonial law like circumcision with the "Commandments of God" like "do not take God's name in vain"

3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16



You quote the NT and declare it to be wrong??

4. Paul askw that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8

6. Paul tells gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9

1 Cor 9:8-9
8 I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He?​

7 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11

8. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
(see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

9. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
=====

"it just does not GET any easier than that!".

It is fine with me if you think you can be justified by the law obtaining the righteousness God requires. My Bible says this is impossible and I believe it. Jesus said you will not get to pass those pearly gates because you keep or kept the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Nothing above is proof Jesus gave the ten commandments. John 1:17 and 10:8 are about all I need to prove you wrong.No he doesn't. See the c&p after your quote from bugster.
The following is from the same site you get your quote above from.

One should read Weighed and Wanting by D L Moody to see what he is calling the sabbath starting at page 18. It can be found here - Weighed and Wanting by Dwight L. Moody - Free eBook

The material already cited is from The Ten Commandments by DL Moody on the Fundamental Baptist Institute site. Please read the whole section. We find this in the section for the 4th commandment -

A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath. Saturday is my day of rest, because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need.

D L Moody is not presenting Saturday as the sabbath for the Christian. He clearly calls Sunday the sabbath. He does go on and try and apply at least some sabbath regulations to Sunday as principles to live by. The point is D L Moody is not referring to the 7th day sabbath.

My c&p is found in the formal debate is still found in the archive of formal debates here: Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?

The full debate is located beginning with the into here: Sabbath for Christians; Obligation or Not?

The bolded blue by bugster proves Moody didn't keep the 7th day sabbath. It also proves he isn't preaching keep the 7th day sabbath. Moody is referring ot Sunday as the sabbath on which he preached.

Thanks for quoting me the way you did. I like it and you have my permission to to it anytime.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
Exodus 20:7 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

==========================================================
Paul affirms the Ten Commandments

1. Paul teaches that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19 NASB



1 Cor 7:19 contrasts ceremonial law like circumcision with the "Commandments of God" like "do not take God's name in vain"

3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16



You quote the NT and declare it to be wrong??

4. Paul askw that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8

6. Paul tells gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9

1 Cor 9:8-9
8 I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He?​

7 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11

8. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
(see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

9. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
=====

"it just does not GET any easier than that!".

Only the act of being circumcised is ceremonial. After that is is a fact only. It is part of the law. Are you physically and ritually circumcised as a male? If not you are disobedient to the law. You have a problem if you say we are obligated to the law.

bugkiller

 

[listed]

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Sorry but there's no contrast even in your quote of the passage. I find there is a result though.
Is 1 John 3:23 a commandment of God?
Is John 13:34 a commandment from God?

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

Not believing God's word is even worse. What exactly are you at war with? Maybe I should ask why are promoting the law over salvation (grace). Some here understand it the soul the war is being waged on. It isn't the Scripture. Some here fully accept what Jesus did for them.

1 John 5
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3

No 10 in this verse.

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

Not this one either.

Exodus 20:7 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

No 10 in this verse.

==========================================================
Paul affirms the Ten Commandments

1. Paul teaches that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19 NASB

No Paul doesn't. I quote 2 Cor 3:

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
This last phrase has nothing to do with fading. It has to do with being removed. I also quote 1 Cor
3 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

1 Cor 7:19 contrasts ceremonial law like circumcision with the "Commandments of God" like "do not take God's name in vain"

Impossible because circumcision is the law for a Jew. Paul isn't contrasting parts of the law with the law.

3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16[/quote ]The same Paul says there are no doers of the law in Romans 3:23.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Paul says gentiles keep the law (Romans 2:14 and 15) and we know for a fact they didn't keep the law of Moses or the sabbath as evidenced in Acts 15.

You quote the NT and declare it to be wrong??

The evidence is the other way around. You argue for the law while I argue for grace as promoted in the NT. You argue for Israel while I argue for mankind.

4. Paul askw that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31

This statement is directed at Jews who were against Paul requiring the law be kept. Their contention was Paul argued against the law for a relationship with God. But in your verse Paul doesn't argue the law is required to be kept. Read only what is there.

5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8

No. Paul is talking about the carnal (religious) Christian. It's fine by me if you want to say I'm quoting myself. But let me remind you that you're promoting your idea over Scripture.

6. Paul tells gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9

1 Cor 9:8-9
8 I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He?​

Yes and Paul clearly calls the ten commandments the law in Romans 7. Your argument fails miserably.

7 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11

Paul preaches what is written on the heart isn't the law issued to Israel in verse 9 of your reference. You fully ignore this verse.

8. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
(see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

It should be obvious that Paul isn't just shooting off his mouth wasting time and space when he says "we are now delivered from the law..." or "not under the law" several times. It can't be missed. It can be dismissed though. That would be altering God's Word. While you argue that Paul is referring to the OT Peter says Paul's writings are Scripture in 2 Peter 3:16.

"it just does not GET any easier than that!".

For sure it doesn't.

 

[BobRyan]

Note that in 1John 5 - John contrasts "LOVE", to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God".

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
Exodus 20:7 "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

==========================================================
Paul affirms the Ten Commandments

1. Paul teaches that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19 NASB

If you're using the KJV this is a misquote. Besides being circumcised is a command of the law for those keeping it. The Christian isn't called to it.

1 Cor 7:19 contrasts ceremonial law like circumcision with the "Commandments of God" like "do not take God's name in vain"

3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16

Paul also says: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. There are no doers of the law.

You quote the NT and declare it to be wrong??

4. Paul askw that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8

6. Paul tells gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9

1 Cor 9:8-9
8 I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He?​

7 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11

8. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
(see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

9. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
=====

"it just does not GET any easier than that!".

Sorry but there's no contrast even in your quote of the passage.

Indeed not "contrast" rather blends - showing how they fit seamlessly together.

Note that in 1John 5 - John shows that "LOVE" to God AND obedience to the Commandments of God are in perfect harmony. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God" -- rather

Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.'

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments;

====================================

I find there is a result though.
Is 1 John 3:23 a commandment of God?
Is John 13:34 a commandment from God?

1 John 3:4 "A definition of what sin is" -- yes "SIN IS the transgression of the LAW"
Romans 7 showing that the LAW includes the TEN Commandments? -- yes.
Eph 6:2 showing that the NT Law includes the TEN Commandments? -- yes.
Mark 7:6-13 just as Christ showed even before the cross? --- yes.

Not believing God's word is even worse. What exactly are you at war with?

Maybe I should ask why are promoting the law over salvation (grace).

That was a quote "of you" not me.

 

[BobRyan]

You quote the NT and declare it to be wrong??

4. Paul ask that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8

6. Paul tells gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9

1 Cor 9:8-9
8 I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He?​

7 Paul teaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11

8. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
(see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

9. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
=====

"it just does not GET any easier than that!".

Only the act of being circumcised is ceremonial. After that is is a fact only. It is part of the law.

1 Cor 7:19 "circumcision does not matter and uncircumcision does not matter but what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

The point remains.

 

[bugkiller]

You quote the NT and declare it to be wrong??

4. Paul ask that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8

6. Paul tells gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9

1 Cor 9:8-9
8 I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He?​

7 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11

8. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
(see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

9. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
=====

"it just does not GET any easier than that!".



1 Cor 7:19 "circumcision does not matter and uncircumcision does not matter but what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

The point remains.

When it come to the law circumcision is a key factor. It is a commandment of God for all who join that covenant.

The commandments for the Christian are not the commandments given to Israel.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. I JN 3

16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. LK 16

Even the Gospels clearly say the law was.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

7 Paul reaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11

8. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
(see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

9. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
=====

"it just does not GET any easier than that!".



1 Cor 7:19 "circumcision does not matter and uncircumcision does not matter but what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

The point remains

When it come to the law circumcision is a key factor. It is a commandment of God for all who join that covenant.

1 Cor 7:19 "circumcision does not matter and uncircumcision does not matter but what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

The commandments for the Christian are not the commandments given to Israel.

Christians are given the TEN Commandments as we just saw --

7 Paul Teaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8:7-11

8. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
(see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

9. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
=====

"it just does not GET any easier than that!".

1 Cor 7:19 "circumcision does not matter and uncircumcision does not matter but what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
"the Sabbath was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
Acts 18:4 BOTH Jew AND Gentiles meet "every Sabbath in the Synagogue" for Gospel preaching

 

[BobRyan]

And of course a recent thread by W2L pointing out that Charles Stanley is among those who admit that all TEN of the TEN Commandments - apply to Christians.

 

[BobRyan]

It is in my signature line - but now and then it is good to be reminded of these quotes from those pro-sunday source examples.

 

[BobRyan]

What happens when the Bible, and C.H. Spurgeon, the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19, and "the Westminster confession of faith" section 19 are quoted verbatim?

And so many here agree with those texts (not even remotely limited to "just-SDA"s)


Well things like this pop up.

Amen brother! We are not fooled by SDA propaganda.

Innexplicably the "I can only see SDAs posting" form of creative writing is offered for serious review.

 

[Pyong Ping]

“... 1. ... This "hand writing of ordinances our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross,: (vs [14]; [Colossians 2:14]).

2. But the moral law contained in the ten commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.

... The moral [law] stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law ...

... Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages. ...” - The Works of the Reverend John Wesley, A.M. sometime fellow of Lincoln College, Oxford. First American Complete and Standard Edition, from the latest corrections of the author: comprehending also numerous translations, notes, and an original preface, &c., by John Emory. In Seven Volumes, Volume 1. New York, published by J. Emory and B. Waugh, for the Methodist Episcopal Church, at the Conference Office, 14 Crosby-Street. J. Collord, Printer. 1831. Page 221,222 - https://books.google.com/books?id=c3k9AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

“... Take the matter of Sunday. There are indications in the New Testament as to how the church came to keep the first day of the week as its day of worship, but there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day. ...” - Rall, Harris Franklin, "Dr. Rall Answers," The Christian Advocate, (the official organ of The Methodist Church), July 2, 1942.)

There are many other such quotations from official Methodist sources.

 

[HARK!]

Jesus said you will not get to pass those pearly gates because you keep or kept the law.

Here's what mine says:

(CLV) Mt 7:21
"Not everyone saying to Me `Lord! Lord!' will be entering into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the will of My Father Who is in the heavens.
(CLV) Mt 7:22
Many will be declaring to Me in that day, `Lord! Lord! Was it not in Your name that we prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many powerful deeds?'
(CLV) Mt 7:23
And then shall I be avowing to them that `I never knew you! Depart from Me, workers of lawlessness!'

 

[DamianWarS]

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - (Obviously I don't agree to point 7)

Kind of a major point of contention as the implication is that Sunday sabbath voids the whole thing regardless what points 1 through 6 are. So are you really agreeing with them? Do you really see those who value point 7 as keeping the Sabbath? It's like saying you agree with same sex marriage (except the same sex part)

 

[BobRyan]

On these areas of the discussion board it may "seem like" there is no agreement on anything.

But as it turns out there are a number of points that BOTH the pro-Bible-7th-day-Sabbath and the pro-Sunday scholars DO agree on!

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.

Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.

1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - (Obviously I don't agree to point 7)

So then of the SIX points where BOTH sides admit to the Bible details - we have a result that confirms there is such a thing as "obvious Bible details that BOTH sides admit to".

And frankly at that point we conclude "it just does not GET any easier than that!".

Everyone has free will and can object to whatever they wish - but it is nice to find that in a world of 'differences' some Bible details are so obvious BOTH sides admit to them.

Nice!

An example where Charles Stanley seems to hold out a similar view as the Baptist Confession of Faith -- section 19 and 20

Kind of a major point of contention as the implication is that Sunday sabbath voids the whole thing regardless what points 1 through 6 are. So are you really agreeing with them? Do you really see those who value point 7 as keeping the Sabbath? It's like saying you agree with same sex marriage (except the same sex part)

On the contrary - the very points they affirm as we see in the OP -- are the very points most opposed here on this forum by those opposing the Bible Sabbath.

according to your post the points most affirmed on this forum between both sides would be 1-6 and all the focus would be on "the major point of contention" -- but that is not "the reality" of what we see on this board... though it is a reality I would welcome.

details matter.

 

[DamianWarS]

according to your post the points most affirmed on this forum between both sides would be 1-6 and all the focus would be on "the major point of contention" -- but that is not "the reality" of what we see on this board... though it is a reality I would welcome.

my response is based on the logic regardless who is affirming it and right now you're skirting the issue I bring up. If Sunday Sabbath-keepers cannot be said to keep the sabbath, and I don't mean to presume your thoughts on this (as only you can clarify this) then it really doesn't matter how points 1 through 6 are valued because if it's on the wrong day the whole thing is for naught. Such as my example with same-sex marriage, you can agree with love, monogamy, commitment, sacrifice and all the things we value in marriage but if someone values all these things within a same-sex relationship should we be celebrating these things as you are doing and use them in defence of marriage? or should the focus be different?

to me, there is a fundamental logic problem in how the issue is being approached and I think merely a sum of values without differentiating between core values misses the mark if your point is that important. if Friday sundown to Saturday sundown is a core value then how point 7 is viewed should be non-negotiable.

 

[BobRyan]

On the contrary - the very points they affirm as we see in the OP -- are the very points most opposed here on this forum by those opposing the Bible Sabbath.

according to your post the points most affirmed on this forum between both sides would be 1-6 and all the focus would be on "the major point of contention" -- but that is not "the reality" of what we see on this board... though it is a reality I would welcome.

details matter.

my response is based on the logic regardless who is affirming it and right now you're skirting the issue I bring up.

You are skirting the issue of the entire thread, the OP etc .. and now complaining that I am trying to get a focus on the title and OP ... seriously?

From the start I show the focus is on the "Bible details sooooooo incredibly obvious that BOTH sides admit to them". That would be 1-6 in the OP.

SEVEN in the op is not a focus on this forum (though I wish it were) - because those who oppose the Bible Sabbath here actually AGREE with ME and all other Sabbath posts on this area of the board -- so they don't want to debate it.

Your argument is that I should take agreement with me on number SEVEN as a negative - employs logic that I find illusive.

If Sunday Sabbath-keepers cannot be said to keep the sabbath, and I don't mean to presume your thoughts on this (as only you can clarify this) then it really doesn't matter how points 1 through 6 are valued

Does not matter "to whom"??

Given that all the debate on this forum is over points 1-6 , even in your own posts on other Sabbath threads -- I find it illogical to argue that those points are suddenly "of no interest" when it turns out that the vast majority of Sunday promoting Bible scholars agree with me on points 1-6.

Here then is the "elephant in the living room" detail that a lot of the anti-Bible-Sabbath posters prefer not to discuss on this thread. Which is fine of course - if that is what they need to do.

But I find it more than a little instructive.

 

[HARK!]

Kind of a major point of contention as the implication is that Sunday sabbath voids the whole thing regardless what points 1 through 6 are. So are you really agreeing with them? Do you really see those who value point 7 as keeping the Sabbath? It's like saying you agree with same sex marriage (except the same sex part)

I'm not sure that I understand where you are going with this.

Are you saying that under the renewed covenant that marriage is passe too?

 

[HARK!]

If Sunday Sabbath-keepers cannot be said to keep the sabbath, and I don't mean to presume your thoughts on this (as only you can clarify this) then it really doesn't matter how points 1 through 6 are valued because if it's on the wrong day the whole thing is for naught.

It's almost as though if we fall short in one point of the Torah; we fall short of the whole Torah.

If we fall short of the full esteem of YHWH; does he then call us to completely ignore his perfect Torah?