Taking Questions on Embedded Age Creation

[AV1611VET]

If you want to pray for that, you go right ahead.

Thank you.

I won't.

And if it happens, I'll convert to your particular interpretation of Christianity instantly.

Right.

And I'm Genghis Khan.

So you'll convert if God displaces and puts people out of work, but you won't convert if God dies on the Cross for your sins?

Okay ... let's see how sincere you are.

Try these on for size:

30 October 1991: The Halloween Monster, a.k.a. The Perfect Storm, strikes the U.S. amid the "land-for-peace" Madrid peace talks; President Bush's ocean-side home destroyed.

23 August 1992: President Bush moves Madrid talks to U.S. soil; that very day, Hurricane Andrew devastates southern Florida.

16 January 1994: President Clinton meets with Syrian President Hafez Assad to discuss more "land for peace" arrangements; less than 24 hours later, a 6.9 earthquake pulverized southern California.

1 September 1993: President Clinton announces a meeting with Arafat for the Oslo peace accords, to be held on 13 September; after a week of meandering in the Atlantic Ocean, Hurricane Emily hits North Carolina on that very day.

21 January 1998: while waiting to meet with Arafat at the White House, President Clinton's sex scandal breaks out.

27 September 1998: Arafat is meeting with the president in Washington; Hurricane Georges hits Alabama and stalls. The hurricane stalls until Arafat leaves and then it dissipates. Parts of Alabama declared a disaster area.

17 October 1998: Arafat comes to the Wye Plantation meeting; incredible rains fall on Texas, which cause record flooding. Parts of Texas declared a disaster area.

3 September 1999: Secretary of State Albright meets with Arafat in Israel; Hurricane Dennis comes ashore on this very day after weeks of changing course in the Atlantic Ocean.

12-26 July 2000: Arafat at the Camp David meetings. Powerful droughts throughout the country. Forest fires explode in West into uncontrollable fires. By the end of August, 7 million acres are burnt.

9 November 2000, two days after the presidential election: Arafat meets with President Clinton at the White House to try and salvage the peace process; worst election crisis in over 100 years occurs.

Psalm 83:15 So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.

Are you going to convert now?

Or are you going to make up some bologna to backpedal?

But it's not going to happen, is it?

You tell me.

Read the above list and decide for yourself.

I don't think you actually believe it will happen.

Re your street, you're right.

I don't believe it will happen.

Just like I don't believe you'd convert if it did happen.

Funny how everything that happens is entirely consistent with a universe without any supernatural, isn't it?

Don't kid yourself.

 

[AV1611VET]

That doesn't actually tell me why Paul, who at one point could heal the sick and raise the dead, have to leave a friend behind sick, does it?

Dispensation 101, Kylie.

Dispensation 101

 

[AveChristusRex]

Right.

And I'm Genghis Khan.

Nice going, Genghis! (Gen Z joke )

 

[truthpls]

I'm not discussing anything further with you. You constantly repeat the same false claims, you show that youa re not interested in doing anything other than repeating these claims. You are not interested in a reasonable discussion, and you lack the understanding of science required to have such a discussion even if you did want one.

I'm not wasting my time with you anymore.

You lost. Science only deals with the physical world. Not the spiritual. Nothing to debate there.

 

[roman2819]

Okay.

If you believe that you have enough faith that you can pray for a mountain to move from one place to yonder place as stated in Matthew 21:21 and Mark 11:23 Matthew 17:20, would you care to put it to the test?

Potential of Faith: “You Can Say to this Mountain, “Move from Here to There”

Jesus was really referring to the potential of faith. He was trying to impress upon the disciples: Faith has potential to achieve much more than we think, even what we feel is impossible. The disciples did not know what faith could do; perhaps they could handle situations that were not too tough; but if the magnitude of the challenge was too daunting, then even faith would not work. However, Jesus asserted that faith could accomplish the insurmountable: Even an obstacle like the mountain could cast it into the sea – nothing would be impossible for them. These were words of emphasis, intended to overcome their sense of limitation.

Later, with faith and God’s divine guidance, the disciples set up the first churches. As they proclaimed the gospel, the Lord empowered them to heal the sick and speak in different tongues and even restored life. The miracles were intended to show that the Kingdom of God was at hand so that people would believe. And even though the disciples faced the harshest persecutions, however, they did not crumble: Faith and conviction empowered them to endure for a real and living God. After three hundred years of tribulations and hardship, Christianity was recognized as the state religion. Even after the empire collapsed, Christianity did not; and it spread to medieval Europe later. By faith and God’s divine power, the church gained a foothold on earth.

Do we always achieve success if we have faith and work hard? Athletes train to win races, singers hope to top the charts, and entrepreneurs strive to succeed in business ventures. There are other competitors who are just as determined and diligent – and they have faith too. It is not all about “my prayers”; we should appreciate that others are praying. When two teams compete, there cannot be two winners.

Prayer verses are words of encouragement, not words of guarantee. God can answer prayer, but this does not mean He will answer every prayer. When Jesus said, “Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours,” our response is to literally think that it has happened, then hope that it will happen. However, such words are not meant to be enacted mentally. Words are just words, so to speak, it is the purpose that we have to grasp: “Believe … and it will be yours” is really another way of emphasizing that we should have faith. It starts with believing, and after that, we work towards it. Prayer is part of our perseverance. We can pray for our endeavours, but it is not intended to make everything easier. Neither is it a guarantee to success. God can help us when we work or pray, or both. It does not mean He will always produce miracle or help us whenever we ask.

 

[roman2819]

Ok, Kylie. You win! We all know that no mountains move with prayer. Now what would you like for us to do?

No she didn't win.

This is the explanation for the 'prayer move mountain' and other prayer verses.

Potential of Faith: “You Can Say to this Mountain, “Move from Here to There”

Jesus was really referring to the potential of faith. He was trying to impress upon the disciples: Faith has potential to achieve much more than we think, even what we feel is impossible. The disciples did not know what faith could do; perhaps they could handle situations that were not too tough; but if the magnitude of the challenge was too daunting, then even faith would not work. However, Jesus asserted that faith could accomplish the insurmountable: Even an obstacle like the mountain could cast it into the sea – nothing would be impossible for them. These were words of emphasis, intended to overcome their sense of limitation.

Later, with faith and God’s divine guidance, the disciples set up the first churches. As they proclaimed the gospel, the Lord empowered them to heal the sick and speak in different tongues and even restored life. The miracles were intended to show that the Kingdom of God was at hand so that people would believe. And even though the disciples faced the harshest persecutions, however, they did not crumble: Faith and conviction empowered them to endure for a real and living God. After three hundred years of tribulations and hardship, Christianity was recognized as the state religion. Even after the empire collapsed, Christianity did not; and it spread to medieval Europe later. By faith and God’s divine power, the church gained a foothold on earth.

Do we always achieve success if we have faith and work hard? Athletes train to win races, singers hope to top the charts, and entrepreneurs strive to succeed in business ventures. There are other competitors who are just as determined and diligent – and they have faith too. It is not all about “my prayers”; we should appreciate that others are praying. When two teams compete, there cannot be two winners.

Prayer verses are words of encouragement, not words of guarantee. God can answer prayer, but this does not mean He will answer every prayer. When Jesus said, “Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours,” our response is to literally think that it has happened, then hope that it will happen. However, such words are not meant to be enacted mentally. Words are just words, so to speak, it is the purpose that we have to grasp: “Believe … and it will be yours” is really another way of emphasizing that we should have faith. It starts with believing, and after that, we work towards it. Prayer is part of our perseverance. We can pray for our endeavours, but it is not intended to make everything easier. Neither is it a guarantee to success. God can help us when we work or pray, or both. It does not mean He will always produce miracle or help us whenever we ask.

Words of Encouragement, Not Words of Guarantee

Prayer verses are words of encouragement not words of guarantee -- this is what many people overlook when they read literally.

Jesus was encouraging us to believe and persevere. Have faith in God because He can help us. The spirit of prayer is to trust in the Lord and persevere. He was not literally saying that we would get whatever we want.

Consider what a sports coach says to the athletes in his team before a competition. I was an athlete in school, and before the competition, the coach would tell us, “You have trained hard. You are ready. Stay focused, be confident, and you will win.” Was he saying that we would win for sure? Was he giving a promise? No, he was trying to motivate and inspire us. The purpose was to gear us up for the race. He was speaking words of encouragement, not giving a guarantee.

Likewise, the Scriptures do not mean that every prayer will be answered. Instead, Jesus was exhorting us to pray, have faith and persevere because God can answer prayers. By appreciating the spirit of His words, we will avoid misinterpretations and wrong expectations that are not based on the Bible.

Words of encouragement are meant to motivate people, and as such, they are always spoken with conviction. The tone behind the words is always positive in order to instill confidence in people so that they will believe and strive to achieve. Which of the following words would encourage you? “You are ready. You will win. Go get it” or “I think you may win. So, try to run a good race.” Obviously, words that are spoken with conviction are more inspiring. For that purpose, we use “will” and “can”, instead of “maybe” or “might”. Instead of saying “many things are possible”, Jesus said “nothing will be impossible” or “everything is possible”. Such words are intended to strengthen our conviction.

Adapted from 'understanding Prayer, Faith and God's Will: Compass for Christian Faith'.

 

[Kylie]

Thank you.

I won't.

A neat way to avoid having to deal with the result of it failing.

Right.

And I'm Genghis Khan.

So you'll convert if God displaces and puts people out of work, but you won't convert if God dies on the Cross for your sins?

No idea how you figured that's what I was saying, but needless to say, this is about the wrongest I've ever seen you be.

I was saying that if you put the claims in the Bible to the test (and I gave a specific example of a clear an unambiguous event that came about as a result of prayer and was impossible to have occured through natural means), and what happens is what the Bible says will happen, then I will convert.

Okay ... let's see how sincere you are.

Try these on for size:

30 October 1991: The Halloween Monster, a.k.a. The Perfect Storm, strikes the U.S. amid the "land-for-peace" Madrid peace talks; President Bush's ocean-side home destroyed.

23 August 1992: President Bush moves Madrid talks to U.S. soil; that very day, Hurricane Andrew devastates southern Florida.

16 January 1994: President Clinton meets with Syrian President Hafez Assad to discuss more "land for peace" arrangements; less than 24 hours later, a 6.9 earthquake pulverized southern California.

1 September 1993: President Clinton announces a meeting with Arafat for the Oslo peace accords, to be held on 13 September; after a week of meandering in the Atlantic Ocean, Hurricane Emily hits North Carolina on that very day.

21 January 1998: while waiting to meet with Arafat at the White House, President Clinton's sex scandal breaks out.

27 September 1998: Arafat is meeting with the president in Washington; Hurricane Georges hits Alabama and stalls. The hurricane stalls until Arafat leaves and then it dissipates. Parts of Alabama declared a disaster area.

17 October 1998: Arafat comes to the Wye Plantation meeting; incredible rains fall on Texas, which cause record flooding. Parts of Texas declared a disaster area.

3 September 1999: Secretary of State Albright meets with Arafat in Israel; Hurricane Dennis comes ashore on this very day after weeks of changing course in the Atlantic Ocean.

12-26 July 2000: Arafat at the Camp David meetings. Powerful droughts throughout the country. Forest fires explode in West into uncontrollable fires. By the end of August, 7 million acres are burnt.

9 November 2000, two days after the presidential election: Arafat meets with President Clinton at the White House to try and salvage the peace process; worst election crisis in over 100 years occurs.

Psalm 83:15 So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.

Are you going to convert now?

Or are you going to make up some bologna to backpedal?

I'd be happy to convert.

But of course, storms and houses destroyed happen all the time. Are they ALL a direct result of God taking direct action? Is EVERY house destroyed by a storm something that God did directly?

And an earthquake in California? Colour me shocked! California NEVER gets earthquakes! Oh wait, they do, all the time.

None of these things have any clear causal relationship.

All you're doing is picking something that you think someone should be punished for, and then finding something that caused damage shortly after, and declaring that the two are connected.

But hey, maybe we can say that the fires in LA at the moment are God expressing how upset he is that Trump was re-elected. Maybe you should start saying that Trump shouldn't be president!

You tell me.

Read the above list and decide for yourself.

Then that's a big fat NO.

Re your street, you're right.

I don't believe it will happen.

Just like I don't believe you'd convert if it did happen.

Ah, the old chestnut, "I'm not going to bother, because you wouldn't accept it anyway."

Are you surprised that nobody is convinced by your arguments if you keep resorting to such cop outs?

Don't kid yourself.

I'm not.

 

[Kylie]

Dispensation 101, Kylie.

Dispensation 101

Yeah, repeating isn't going to make it a better answer.

If my daughter came to me and said, "Mum, how does an aeroplane fly," and I just said, "Aerodynamics 101, Fiona. Aerodynamics 101!" She's not going to actually get an answer to her question, is she? Is she going to understand pressure differentials in Bernoulli's principle? Of course not.

If you can't give me anything more than vague handwaving, don't bother answering. I don't need my time wasted.

 

[Kylie]

You lost. Science only deals with the physical world. Not the spiritual. Nothing to debate there.

You keep bring the same garbage to the table, and say I lost when I decide I'm not going to sit opposite you anymore?

 

[Kylie]

Potential of Faith: “You Can Say to this Mountain, “Move from Here to There”

Jesus was really referring to the potential of faith. He was trying to impress upon the disciples: Faith has potential to achieve much more than we think, even what we feel is impossible. The disciples did not know what faith could do; perhaps they could handle situations that were not too tough; but if the magnitude of the challenge was too daunting, then even faith would not work. However, Jesus asserted that faith could accomplish the insurmountable: Even an obstacle like the mountain could cast it into the sea – nothing would be impossible for them. These were words of emphasis, intended to overcome their sense of limitation.

Later, with faith and God’s divine guidance, the disciples set up the first churches. As they proclaimed the gospel, the Lord empowered them to heal the sick and speak in different tongues and even restored life. The miracles were intended to show that the Kingdom of God was at hand so that people would believe. And even though the disciples faced the harshest persecutions, however, they did not crumble: Faith and conviction empowered them to endure for a real and living God. After three hundred years of tribulations and hardship, Christianity was recognized as the state religion. Even after the empire collapsed, Christianity did not; and it spread to medieval Europe later. By faith and God’s divine power, the church gained a foothold on earth.

Do we always achieve success if we have faith and work hard? Athletes train to win races, singers hope to top the charts, and entrepreneurs strive to succeed in business ventures. There are other competitors who are just as determined and diligent – and they have faith too. It is not all about “my prayers”; we should appreciate that others are praying. When two teams compete, there cannot be two winners.

Prayer verses are words of encouragement, not words of guarantee. God can answer prayer, but this does not mean He will answer every prayer. When Jesus said, “Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours,” our response is to literally think that it has happened, then hope that it will happen. However, such words are not meant to be enacted mentally. Words are just words, so to speak, it is the purpose that we have to grasp: “Believe … and it will be yours” is really another way of emphasizing that we should have faith. It starts with believing, and after that, we work towards it. Prayer is part of our perseverance. We can pray for our endeavours, but it is not intended to make everything easier. Neither is it a guarantee to success. God can help us when we work or pray, or both. It does not mean He will always produce miracle or help us whenever we ask.

So in other words, it's just us motivating ourselves by thinking positive.

Don't need a God for that.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you can't give me anything more than vague handwaving, don't bother answering. I don't need my time wasted.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

So then we can not take the entire Bible as literal, can we?

No we cannot. And for my part, I never have.

So, how do we tell which parts are literally true and which parts are not?

In order to begin to discern the nature of each book in the biblical "Library," we have to apply the various insights offered by modern scholars from a range of relevant fields.

When doing so, we'll have to address every book in the Bible as a separate subject of study, discerning (as we may be able) its specific historical era in which it is situated, its cultural and linguistic framework and identifying any relevant evidences for it, its authorial purpose and structure, its transmission, and its possible meaning(s). If we're doing well, we'll realize that this is a large, interdisciplinary endeavor.

What test can I perform to make a determination?

You can apply the same methods of analysis and rational assessment that historical and literary scholars of all kinds have been applying since before both you and I were born.

It's just that in doing so, you can't go into the process of historical and literary analysis assuming that everything you hear from the likes of Myth Vision or Digital Hammurabi ........................................................... is the "end of the story."

 

[truthpls]

You keep bring the same garbage to the table, and say I lost when I decide I'm not going to sit opposite you anymore?

You back already? Try to take it gracefully

 

[Hans Blaster]

Adapted from 'understanding Prayer, Faith and God's Will: Compass for Christian Faith'.

You do know that citing a work you've pasted in is more than giving the title, right? The author of the adapted work needs to be mentioned, and frankly the phrasing of this makes it seem like what you copied in was someone else's adaptation that you also did [not] cite.

[Plus, this is just theology/apologetics and is WAY off topic. I know things veered a bit astray, but, seriously big block quotes of entirely off topic material.]

[Edit to add "not". Why do I keep reversing part of a sentence by leaving out or adding a negative.]

 

[AveChristusRex]

Today's Bible scholars are a joke.

Luke 1:2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Hence the necessity of the Magisterium in Catholicism, "scholars", nominally, cannot be trusted in matters of faith and morals.

 

[QvQ]

Frankly, I'd have it hauled away.

If I get in and it starts it right up, I can drive it away.

 

[BCP1928]

Hence the necessity of the Magisterium in Catholicism, "scholars", nominally, cannot be trusted in matters of faith and morals.

LOL! He can't trust Magisterium, either. After all, the Church has rejected the objectively and absolutely true and essential or go straight to Hell doctrine of Dispensationalism, which is essentially the same as declaring the entire Bible a lie of Satan.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hence the necessity of the Magisterium in Catholicism, "scholars", nominally, cannot be trusted in matters of faith and morals.

.... at some point, all human beings whether Christian or not should be able to recognize some commonly evident truths regarding what counts as "faith and morals."

The Magisterium has had its place, but......

And that's all I'll say, by ending in a Galilean "but..."

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Frankly, I'd have it hauled away.

Wax on, Wax off, Hans!!!!!

 

[Kylie]

In order to begin to discern the nature of each book in the biblical "Library," we have to apply the various insights offered by modern scholars from a range of relevant fields.

When doing so, we'll have to address every book in the Bible as a separate subject of study, discerning (as we may be able) its specific historical era in which it is situated, its cultural and linguistic framework and identifying any relevant evidences for it, its authorial purpose and structure, its transmission, and its possible meaning(s). If we're doing well, we'll realize that this is a large, interdisciplinary endeavor.

And is there any disagreement between these scholars?