Taking Questions on Creationism

[Subduction Zone]

In Western Christian theology, grace is "the love and mercy given to us by God because God desires us to have it, not necessarily because of anything we have done to earn it". It is not a created substance of any kind. ... It is an attribute of God that is most manifest in the salvation of sinners.
Grace in Christianity - Wikipedia

That was pretty much just word salad that could be reinterpreted countless different ways. Can you be more specific? Use your own words.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am unaware that this is part of the death process for individuals (something about telomeres). From the context, it seemed like a reference to something happening to whole species post 4005 BC. I've never heard of it, but my knowledge of biology is not perfect.

The telomeres of chromosomes shorten as we age. They are essentially a buffer at the start and end of a chromosome. Repeated zones that do not code. The shortening of telomeres is associated with the eventual death of cells, and increased chances of cancer:

Telomeres, lifestyle, cancer, and aging.

AV used something from modern science without an explanation of how God prevented shortening of telomeres or what he changed that caused them to shorten. It is a fancy way of saying "God did it". It is an ad hoc explanation with not predictive powers.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The telomeres of chromosomes shorten as we age. They are essentially a buffer at the start and end of a chromosome. Repeated zones that do not code. The shortening of telomeres is associated with the eventual death of cells, and increased chances of cancer:

Telomeres, lifestyle, cancer, and aging.

AV used something from modern science without an explanation of how God prevented shortening of telomeres or what he changed that caused them to shorten. It is a fancy way of saying "God did it". It is an ad hoc explanation with not predictive powers.

Oh, I get it now. Telomeres didn't shorten before 4004 BCE, so no one died. Cool. Just another, oblique, shorthand, coded way of saying things. I'm recalling why I didn't miss certain posters.

 

[inquiring mind]

Nope, by the way you are being rude. Making false assumptions about others leads to breaking the Ninth Commandment.

Sorry, that's what it sounded like.

I never said or even implied that.

Well, that's the way it sounded too.

It is not possible to have a "relationship" with that which does not exist. But from my perspective we are the same. In my eyes you do not have a "relationship with God" either. In fact when you claim that you do you put a burden of proof upon yourself. How would you demonstrate this?

It wouldn't be by arguing with you about it.

And are you still afraid to learn what is and what is not evidence? The only thing that you gain by avoiding learning is that you can become a master of the Ostrich Defense. Burying your head in the sand only convinces the person hiding. It does not do any good.

I'd rather stand on the side of truth as I understand it, as stand with the clever as they understand it.

 

[inquiring mind]

That was pretty much just word salad that could be reinterpreted countless different ways. Can you be more specific? Use your own words.

You're given something you don't deserve and didn't earn.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV used something from modern science without an explanation of how God prevented shortening of telomeres ...

Deuteronomy 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

 

[Kylie]

Actually it doesn't.

The created generation had no scars and was created not to die.

It's telomeres were not moving toward separation; not like they are today.

Again, you can't compare today with what existed back in 4004 BC.

You're right. Your answer doesn't explain why things look just as they would if life had evolved. Your answer explains nothing.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Deuteronomy 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

The nature of this reference is not clear.

Either you need to include more context so we can figure out what wax has to do with SZ comment, or you need to use a translation that doesn't use archaic forms of words like "waxen".

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry, that's what it sounded like.

No, it really did not. You are projecting a bit. My offer to help was sincere.

Well, that's the way it sounded too.

Again, projection.

It wouldn't be by arguing with you about it.

True, but you made the claim. If you cannot support it then the proper action of others is to dismiss it.

I'd rather stand on the side of truth as I understand it, as stand with the clever as they understand it.

But you don't stand on the "side of truth". Your user name is "inquiring mind" but so far you have only demonstrated the opposite. If a person with an inquiring mind could be wrong he would want to learn how and why he was wrong. The concepts of scientific evidence and the scientific method do not only apply to evolution. It applies to all of the sciences. You will be in a better position to form any scientific argument and understand whether something is science or pseudoscience. In discussing the concept of scientific evidence we do not even need to bring up the concept of evolution.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Deuteronomy 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

Nope, no help for you there.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The nature of this reference is not clear.

Either you need to include more context so we can figure out what wax has to do with SZ comment, or you need to use a translation that doesn't use archaic forms of words like "waxen".

It was a reference to Moses who for some odd reason took 40 years to make the relatively short trip from Egypt to Canaan. In fact if the trip was so short that if single file and the Hebrews were following one another at a reasonable distance the head of the line would be entering Canaan before the last man even left. There are quite a few very good reasons that archaeologists say that the Exodus never happened.

Oh, and I almost forgot, somehow their clothes did not wear out during that 40 year journey.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're given something you don't deserve and didn't earn.

That is a little bit better.

So are you now saying that if someone does not believe in God it is God's fault?

 

[inquiring mind]

But you don't stand on the "side of truth".

Like I said, I am as I understand things.

If a person with an inquiring mind could be wrong he would want to learn how and why he was wrong.

True.

The concepts of scientific evidence and the scientific method do not only apply to evolution. It applies to all of the sciences. You will be in a better position to form any scientific argument and understand whether something is science or pseudoscience.

Scientists can't even agree on the number of steps in the scientific method.

In discussing the concept of scientific evidence we do not even need to bring up the concept of evolution.

Embarrassing I guess???

 

[Hans Blaster]

Scientists can't even agree on the number of steps in the scientific method.

There is no "the scientific method". However many steps there are in the middle school textbooks, it doesn't matter. No one working in science talks about the number of steps.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It was a reference to Moses who for some odd reason took 40 years to make the relatively short trip from Egypt to Canaan. In fact if the trip was so short that if single file and the Hebrews were following one another at a reasonable distance the head of the line would be entering Canaan before the last man even left. There are quite a few very good reasons that archaeologists say that the Exodus never happened.

Oh, and I almost forgot, somehow their clothes did not wear out during that 40 year journey.

I could see the reference to 40 years, so I suspected it had something to do with the "exodus". I still don't know what the exodus has to do with anything we've been discussing with AV. His old-timey translation does not help us understand his random bible quote game. (There was the possiblity that the "waxen" was related to the term "waxing" used to describe the phases of the moon, but it was not clear given the limited context.)

 

[inquiring mind]

That is a little bit better.

So are you now saying that if someone does not believe in God it is God's fault?

No, not at all. Mark 1:15 makes it clear that we must repent and 'believe' the gospel. When we trust that Jesus paid for our sins and accept Him into our hearts, we are saved by God's grace (not because we deserve it). Romans 10:13 further tells us that whosever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved and have everlasting life. You have to repent, believe and then ask for forgiveness.

 

[coffee4u]

On the contrary, most people have no problem at all discussing the topics. It is creationists that are scared to death to even discuss evidence. I think most know that they are wrong. Deep down inside they know that what they are saying is false. If they understood the concept of evidence they would have no excuse.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Nothing to do with so-called evidence. They are spiritually discerned.

 

[inquiring mind]

There is no "the scientific method". However many steps there are in the middle school textbooks, it doesn't matter. No one working in science talks about the number of steps.

They probably don't want the argument.

 

[Hans Blaster]

They probably don't want the argument.

I assume that the "they" in your statement are the scientists who don't do science the way you learned it in 8th grade.

 

[inquiring mind]

I assume that the "they" in your statement are the scientists who don't do science the way you learned it in 8th grade.

I thought science was supposed to follow strict guidelines gathering evidence. That's all Subduction Zone has talked about.