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Take the NIV Challenge

Discussion in 'Bibliology & Hermeneutics' started by JagSayon, Sep 7, 2002.

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  1. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

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    You keep leaping from high regard for God's word to some idea of utterly perfect preservation of every nuance; there is no support for this. It's a man-made doctrine found nowhere in the Bible, and which I have found no evidence for predating the 1700's or so; certainly, when the KJV was produced, no one believed this.
     
  2. Jesusong

    Jesusong Veteran

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    Hi Jep,

              I want to clarify your previous statements.

    You believe that the KJV is the currently preserved word of God today?

     Out of all of the Bibles that were in circulation before the KJV, you don't know which one was the preserved word of God? If you can't tell, then how were the people living at that time able to tell? And, when the KJV came out, how were the people to know that the mantle of preservation fell on that Bible version, and if the mantle of preservation did fall on the KJV, did that nullify the status of preservation that was on whatever Bible version that was currently used at the time?
     
  3. Jephunneh

    Jephunneh Active Member

    703
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    Why are you so "worried" about where the Bible "was"?

    God is interested in YOU and me NOW and what we do with His words.
     
  4. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

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    Because I want to know what His words are, not what words well-meaning translators have added and changed.
     
  5. Jesusong

    Jesusong Veteran

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    Jep,

    I'm not worried, but I'd like to trace the preserved line down through the ages, starting with the current, and working back.
     
  6. Jephunneh

    Jephunneh Active Member

    703
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    It has already been posted by someone else a good while back, I'll try to find it for you.
     
  7. Jephunneh

    Jephunneh Active Member

    703
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    Traditional Text Line of the KJV

    5210MSS. +-

    Antioch

    Apostles

    Original N. T. MSS. 30-90AD

    Syrian MSS. (Pe****ta) 100-200AD

    Old Latin & Syriac of Originals 100-200AD

    Papyri MSS. (85%=Trad. Text) 150-400AD

    Uncial & Cursive MSS. (99% Trad Text) 150-1500AD

    Latin Bibles (Waldensians Ect) 1100AD-1300AD

    Erasmus Greek N.T. 1522AD

    Martin Luther Bible 1522AD-1534AD (German)

    Tyndales N.T. 1525AD
    Coverdale Bible 1535AD
    Matthews Bible 1537AD
    Great Bible1539AD
    (English)

    Stephens Greek N.T. 1550AD

    Geneva Bible 1560AD
    Bishops Bible 1568AD
    (English)

    Bezas Greek N.T. 1598AD

    KING JAMES BIBLE 1611 AD
     
  8. Jesusong

    Jesusong Veteran

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    So from the list that you gave me, am I supposed to believe that all these English Bibles were the perfectly preserved word of God?

    From these Greek texts, which are various editions of the Textus Receptus, which one was the perfectly preserved word of God, seeing that they were all different? And remember what you always say, "Things that are different are not the same."
     
  9. Jephunneh

    Jephunneh Active Member

    703
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    These are examples of verses missing from the NIV.

    NIV MISSING VERSES (P = partially missing).

    Matt. 6:13 (p); 17:21; 18:11; 23:14;
    Mark 7:16; 9:44, 46; 11:26; 15:28;
    Luke 4:4 (p); 4:8 (p); 17:36; 23:17;
    John 5:4;
    Acts 8:37; 15:34; 24:7; 28:29;
    Rom. 8:1 (p); 16:24;
    1 Jn. 5:7
     
  10. fragmentsofdreams

    fragmentsofdreams Critical loyalist

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    Is it wrong to remove what someone added?
     
  11. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

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    Wow, it only takes a couple of edits to make your statement true!
     
  12. MizDoulos

    MizDoulos <font color=6c2dc7><b>Justified by grace through f

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    The only person that should be editing his/her own posts is either the author of the post or a moderator.
     
  13. Jesusong

    Jesusong Veteran

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    Jep,

    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; You haven't answered my questions on page 9.
     
  14. Jephunneh

    Jephunneh Active Member

    703
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    Look in the NIV and it says that there was no Calvary!




    If you read and believe in the NIV, you must call Calvary a mythical place. Calvary has been DELETED from the NIV. It is found once in the King James Bible:

    KJV- Luke 23:33, And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.

    What doth the NIV say?

    NIV-Luke 23:33 When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals--one on his right, the other on his left.


    Every word of God is important.
     
  15. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

    +7
    Catholic
    OK, your posts are descending into complete absurdity.

    Calvary is derived from "calvaria", which was a translation of the Hebrew word transliterated as "Golgotha", which means Skull.

    Nothing was "deleted" here. There actually is no place called "Calvary" (how could there be? "Calvary" is an English adaptation of a Latin word! You think a place in B.C. Israel was named after a Latin word?)

    Are you ever going to address anything posted in response, or are you just going to keep copying and pasting?

    -Chris
     
  16. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

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    Not a big surprise -- He hasn't answered my questions on page 9, 8, 7, 6, 5...

    -Chris
     
  17. Jephunneh

    Jephunneh Active Member

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    I believe that in your zeal to defend the modern versions, you are not interested in the facts of the matter, at least not at this point. Perhaps one day a brother or sister will show you something that will blow your mind like how the NIV calls Satan Jesus in Isaiah or how Mark 1:2-3 in the NIV is wrong or how the NIV strips away some of the most important verses concerning the Deity of Jesus Christ . But then again, that would require that you listen.
     
  18. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

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    Catholic
    So go ahead, Jep, find any Greek manuscript that has "Calvary" instead of "Golgotha".

    But wait, they're both the same thing! One is a translation of the other! So why does this matter at all?

    Gee, I suppose the KJV is flawed because they DELETED "apocalypsos" and replaced it with "revelation"?

    -Chris
     
  19. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

    +7
    Catholic
    Already been addressed. "Lucifer" means "Morning Star", and the KJV translators themselves put a footnote in that said "or daystarre".

    Rather, the KJV used manuscripts which had added these verses to the original texts.

    I listen just fine, thank you, but I don't believe in unsupported claims by fringe Christian groups.

    You still haven't answered the basic question I've posed numerous times on both threads -- how do you know the KJV (only) was inspired by God? Did men teach you this?

    -Chris
     
  20. Jephunneh

    Jephunneh Active Member

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    Why is it that the word "sodomite" is not in the NIV?

    THE AUTHORIZED KING JAMES VERSION

    Deuteronomy 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

    THE NIV
    Deuteronomy 23:17 No Israelite man or woman is to become a shrine prostitute.



    THE AUTHORIZED KING JAMES VERSION

    1 Kings 14:24 And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

    THE NIV
    1 Kings 14:24 There were even male shrine prostitutes in the land; the people engaged in all the detestable practices of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.


    THE AUTHORIZED KING JAMES VERSION

    1 Kings 15:12 And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

    THE NIV
    1 Kings 15:12 He expelled the male shrine prostitutes from the land and got rid of all the idols his fathers had made.


    THE AUTHORIZED KING JAMES VERSION

    1 Kings 22:46 And the remnant of the sodomites, which remained in the days of his father Asa, he took out of the land.

    THE NIV
    1 Kings 22:46 He rid the land of the rest of the male shrine prostitutes who remained there even after the reign of his father Asa.




    THE AUTHORIZED KING JAMES VERSION

    2 Kings 23:7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.

    THE NIV
    2 Kings 23:7 He also tore down the quarters of the male shrine prostitutes, which were in the temple of the LORD and where women did weaving for Asherah.


    Is every word of God important, to God, to YOU?
     
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